Let’s Speculate: Supernatural 10.10 – “The Hunter Games”
Summary:Â This episode was written by Ross-Lemming and Buckner and picks up where the last episode before hiatus left â in the aftermath of Deanâs âmassacre.â
The show breaks out into three major narratives. One narrative follows Deanâs continued violent behavior and his interaction with Metatron, whom Castiel proposes can help with the mark. Castiel calls in favors and brings Metatron to the bunker. The brothers interrogate him and he reveals that the key to undoing the markâs influence is getting the first blade.
That storythread melds with the second major narrative, which is centered around Crowley and Rowena. Rowena is manipulating Crowley through hex bags and other magic in some power play â we donât know to what end yet. She even casts a spell to track Crowley when he meets with the Winchesters and overhears (in a cool special effect) the Winchesters request the blade and Crowley reveal its location â with his bones in Guam. Rowena convinces the Hell Butler to retrieve it and when Crowley returns, she kills the butler and claims he was fomenting revolution in Hell and she confronted him. Of course, Crowley believes her it seems because he had a dream (courtesy of her hidden hex bag) that foretold the Hell Butlerâs betrayal.
The other narrative is focused on Castiel and his concern for Claire, who has run away. She joins a few drifters and relates her tale of father woe. The would be serial killers suggest killing Dean. She complies.
Back at the bunker, Dean goes and interrogates Metatron on his own. The ensuing confrontation involves Metatron trying to provoke Dean with all the bad things heâs done. He basically says that in order for Dean to get the rest of the steps to cure the mark, he has to pay prices. Dean, of course, does not buy this and the interrogation devolves into a torture session which is finally stopped by Castiel and Sam. Castiel is angry that Dean has caused him to break the promises he made to get Metatron there. Metatron taunts Dean as Castiel leads the other angel away.
Sam and Dean talk about the mark and Sam suggests that Cain lived with the mark and so could Dean â perhaps it is Dean who part of the powerful force that can stop the mark. At this point in the conversation, a call interrupts them. It is Claire, who asks Dean to meet her.
Dean goes alone to meet Claire. The two would be serial killers try to jump him but he takes their weapons and is about to kill them when Claire yells stop. He stops and instead brings the axe he is carrying down on the wooden bench.
The final scene takes us to Castiel finding Claire walking. They have a brief, affectionate exchange before Castiel drives away, watching the walking Claire in his rear view mirror.
Questions:
Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?
Do you believe Metatron really knows what to do about the mark, given his history of trickery and lying?
What is Rowenaâs game here? Is Crowley being manipulated or does he know?
What do you think will happen with Claire?
So what are your thoughts, reactions, feelings? Leave them here!Â
John Badham is an awesome director; but since he excels at action, I wish theyâd given him a more action-packed episode. Remember the fight scene between Dean and the demons at Cainâs cabin in 9.11 [i]First Born[/i]? I was hoping for something of that calibre. Oh well; any episode with Metatron is bound to be talky. đ Still, great confrontation scene between Dean and Metatron.
[quote]Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?[/quote]
I liked Samâs observation that since Cain was able to control the mark, maybe some of the anger is coming from Dean himself. But then, I liked the fact that Sam simply had an observation. đ Bottom line: since I canât see a Winchester finding Zen through beekeeping a la Cain, I think a) Sam’s right and b) more than âmanagementâ is required to stem the MoCâs effects on Dean.
I liked Rowenaâs machinations (and the special effects as she spied on Crowley and the brothers Winchester). Anything that pushes Crowley towards being truly evil again, Iâm all for.
That penultimate scene with Claire, Dean and Baddies 1 and 2 seemed strangely tacked on, like they wanted to quickly wrap up something they realized wasnât working.
[quote]The final scene takes us to Castiel finding Claire walkingâŚ[/quote]
Out of ten episodes, this is the second one that comes to a close with the damaged ingĂŠnue walking off down the road (Kate, then Claire). Please let there not be a third. :p
Mixed bag episode for me, but definitely more to like here than there was in the mid-season finale.
Hmm, must be a lot who haven’t seen it yet. I’ll give it a go!
Is Sam right? Yes, probably. Will it work? Hell no.
Yes, Metatron knows the answer. He’s the scribe of God! He’s also an evil little prick. Bringing back Chuck is the only answer.
I don’t care what Rowena’s game is. Surely Crowley isn’t that dumb. He always has a contingency. He’s survived so long.
I hate seeing dumb Crowley, even though I don’t think he isn’t. Then they totally dumped the Crowley thing for Claire at the end? Bad, bad episode pacing.
What will I think will happen with Claire? Well, my prediction of premature death didn’t hold, so I say she becomes a loose end that disappears and is never seen again. That’s probably my wishful thinking again though.
I didn’t hate it, but I’m still waiting for that S10 episode to blow me away. Only the 200th came somewhat close.
Oh my, I’m still processing all of this after so long a wait. I must say from first impressions that why they thought gaining information from Metatron would be truthful, I don’t understand that or how he was held in what seemed to be ordinary chains. And I also wonder, as tough a decision as it is, why Castiel doesn’t reunite Claire with her mother and erase their memories. I can’t see letting her wander off on her own when she clearly blabbed the situation to dangerous strangers did not work out well. Unless she’s learned from that. Her points are valid that it’s too painful to see Castiel wearing her father, so she cannot forgive even though she seems to understand his conflict. I’m interested to see when they decide Cain must be the solution and seek him out since it wasn’t exactly raised tonight. Maybe the idea Sam said that Cain was able to control the Mark will spark the quest for Cain.
[b]Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?[/b] I think self management can work for the Mark, but they would have to come up with another story if it actually worked, so I don’t think it will. Dean has also never been great at managing his anger, so he isn’t practiced at it enough to have it work. OTOH, I’m sure he will manage his anger enough that he will only let loose when around people who “deserve” to die, so he will never really cross a big line because of the Mark.
[b]Do you believe Metatron really knows what to do about the mark, given his history of trickery and lying?[/b] As the Scribe of God, he should know, but I don’t put it past him to be lying just to jerk Dean’s chain. Even if he does know, I can’t imagine that they can trust anything he says.
[b]What is Rowenaâs game here? Is Crowley being manipulated or does he know[//b] I’m guessing Rowena would like to take over Hell herself. I hope Crowley knows, because up until now his one quality has been his intelligence. As he said years ago, he is one of the few beings that has not underestimated Sam and Dean. I want him to keep that intelligence and be aware that Rowena is manipulating him, but I suspect he has hit a stupid phase, just to keep the story going.
[b]What do you think will happen with Claire?[/b] Claire will drift in and out of the story this year. In the end she will forgive Cas for getting her father killed, because absolutely no one ever doesn’t forgive Cas (unless they are evil or getting killed off). I’m still expecting that she will throw herself in front of something to save Cas’s life and with her last breath she will tell Cas to take the Grace he left inside her so that he gets his own Grace back and is healed and will be an angel again, or at least until the show needs to depower him, again.
[b]So what are your thoughts, reactions, feelings? Leave them here![/b] I’m not a lot of happy. Sam’s complete faith in Dean is nice. For Dean, but since absolutely no one has ever given Sam that level of support I’m annoyed. I’m really mad that Gadreel’s possession of Sam and using Sam’s body to kill Kevin has again become ALL ABOUT HOW DEAN FEELS ABOUT IT. Sam didn’t get to confront Metatron about Gadreel killing Kevin, because why should that involve him, when we can have Dean mope about it. Metatron calls Dean out on his treatment of Sam last season, but Metatron is a lying, untrustworthy villain, so that negates the truth that he spoke. The authors can pat themselves on the back that the issues about what happened to Sam have been fully dealt with and need never be brought up, while making sure they are discounted and that Sam never gets a chance to express his feelings about what happened and Dean gets to look sympathetic because big bad mean Metatron made him feel bad. Claire confronts Cas about killing her father, but isn’t that mad about it, so Cas is in the clear. Cas gets to act like he cares about Claire, but doesn’t even keep an eye on her once she walks out into a dangerous world. He doesn’t try to find her mother and see if she can help Claire. Cas is off the hook.
Basically, I wasn’t expecting good things from this episode due to the writers and boy was I right. I hated a lot of it.
[quote]Sam’s complete faith in Dean is nice.[/quote]Sam should have been the elder brother.[quote]For Dean, but since absolutely no one has ever given Sam that level of support I’m annoyed.[quote]Yes.[/quote] I’m really mad that Gadreel’s possession of Sam and using Sam’s body to kill Kevin has again become ALL ABOUT HOW DEAN FEELS ABOUT IT.[/quote]Again agree.But then again I did not expect anything different.[quote]Dean gets to look sympathetic because big bad mean Metatron made him feel bad[/quote]Haha.Come on percys you have watched the show.Sam is too close…Dean is just toooooooo far away.So it’s okay for Dean to talk.:p[quote]Cas gets to act like he cares about Claire, but doesn’t even keep an eye on her once she walks out into a dangerous world.[/quote]We are talking about Cas not Sam.Sam even in his grief was expected to look out for Kevin..Now we know that Claire was living in horrible conditions ( but that is not talked about).I have come to realise something (too late) .In the show it is only Sam whose actions will be questioned.Dean? Cas? who cares that they have done the same things longer.
Honestly I am hoping that the hastily tacked on ending meant that they realized the Cas/Claire soap opera wasn’t working and it needed to end. I think this is Castiels family storyline that both Dean and Sam had to endure that just never works. Other than that I liked the episode well enough. I don’t for a moment believe that Crowley is falling for Mommie Dearest and her attempts at manipulation but I do enjoy the cat and mouse. Metatron wrote the tablets but Kevin translated them, so Kevin? The only other person besides Cain that could help would be Lucifer since he is the one who gave Cain the Mark to begin with. Like Sam and controlling his anger when trying to defeat Lucifer Dean will have to find a way to control his rage while trying to rid himself of the Mark. The fight with the barfly’s maybe was a small demonstration of that? I’m not exactly sure what was set up for the second half of the season but the pacing seems to be going excruciatingly slow. I did love the scenes with Dean and Metatron. They were intense. So did Metatron give up a step? What did he say? The river runs back to it’s source or something like that. The episode was better than the promos looked.
Liked it, didn’t love it, but would definitely watch it again.
Anyway, question – Self management might work as Cain seemed to have gotten it under control but a lot of that had to do with Collette so maybe Dean needs to have someone else (or two others Sam and Cas) to anchor him until he learns to control it. I dunno if it will work … but it’s worth a try. Might work for a while but I doubt that roughing Metatron up and then almost killing him will be the last we see of Dean losing control. They need to find Cain … he’s gonna have more answers than anyone else since he lived with the Mark for a LONG time. Probably won’t be easy to find though … he wasn’t the first time. I’m also hoping that the search for how to get rid of/control the mark will bring Cas back in more organically to the story. I don’t this he should be in every story at all but his character works better when they’re all working together towards the same thing but the grace issue I’m sure will come up again.
I think Metatron does know but he’s done talking and even though I believe he does know I don’t trust that he would have told them the truth … it would have been the “Angel trials” all over again most likely. We all know how that ended, Cas human and angels falling … and after what he said to Cas in episode 2 of this season I’m afraid it would lead to destroying everything. Best to leave him rotting in a cell in Heaven … as much as I enjoy his snark.
I’m not entirely sure what Rowena is planning but I’d be willing to bet she wants to dupe Crowley out of Hell and I’m hoping that the con man in Crowley knows he’s being conned. He wasn’t the King of the Crossroads demons for nothing!
I’m not sure what will happen with Claire although I doubt it’s the last we’ll see of her. Last season Cas extracted Gadreel’s grace from Sam because he said that whenever an angel leaves a vessel it leaves behind grace and the more he was healing Sam it was fading. Claire was a brief vessel for Castiel back in Season 4 and it doesn’t seem as though angels have been following her around healing her so maybe she’s got enough grace in her to save Cas. Still kinda upset her mom bailed on her … she had no problem sticking around when Jimmy was just missing but when she knows he was dying but let Cas use him as a vessel again so Claire would be safe she freaks out and leaves her? I don’t mind her storyline at all it just seems like an odd juncture to be throwing that in … wish they would have done the storyline earlier in the season instead of the Hannah one.
The season’s been kind of a slow burn with I love/hate. Kinda reminds me of the long story arcs in Angel starting in season 2 and going through season 4. When it was over I was amazed and loved it so I’m hoping the same thing will happen. Only difference was that I didn’t watch Angel until it was done airing so we binge watched it so it didn’t seem so long and drawn out as it would have if I’d watched it while it was airing. I’d wait until the season was over and binge watch it but … lets be real, I really couldn’t wait that long! đ
[b][i]Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?[/i][/b] – For Now, it’s the only game in town. It’ll work for a while. but Dean will slowly start to unravel (the writers have to stretch it out for a while. Technically, we’re still not even half way through the season).
[b][i]Do you believe Metatron really knows what to do about the mark, given his history of trickery and lying?[/i][/b] I believe he does. [i][b]”The river ends at the source”[/b][/i]. This could go two ways – either the source of Dean’s mark, or the original source of the Mark of Cain. Cain is the source of Dean’s mark – and we do know that Timothy Omundson is returning this season. The alternative is Lucifer. Lucifer gave the mark to Cain, so Lucifer is the true source of the mark?
[b][i]What is Rowenaâs game here? Is Crowley being manipulated or does he know?[/i][/b] – I think he knows. I think the writers and directors are doing a bad job of her character and plot. They’ll get to the point with the big reveal, but they won’t be able to do it justice. Her acting is terrible. The dynamic between her and Crowley is anything but … she should die. Soon. Very, very soon. Each time she’s on screen I feel like I’m watching a cartoon. It’s cringe-worthy. I’m half expecting Foghorn Leghorn to bust onto the screen. It’s crap. Crap writing, crap acting. Crap, crap, crap.
[b][i]What do you think will happen with Claire?[/i][/b] – I want to like this character, and I’m disappointed she was recast. No idea on on the reasons. Maybe Sydney Imbeau wasn’t asked to come back, or maybe she didn’t want to? I dunno, but it was disappointing … for a few reasons. [b]1)[/b] The new Claire has the stupidest hair-style in the history of stupid hair-styles. I know it’s not the actresses fault, but it hard to take a character seriously when that’s what you have to look at. It reeks of Post-Kripke-production-team lameness. You just know some nitwit that has way more influence than he/she should said [i]”wouldn’t it be, like, cool and edgy, to have her hair, like, two different styles at, like, the same time”[/i]. đ [b]2)[/b]She’s just poorly written. I was half hoping for something more substantial after the scene Dean was attacked [i](and what the frack is up with the attacker-couple just running off? No “hey, why’d that just happen”, “who the hell are you”? – welcome to the world of Brad Buckner and Eugenie Ross-Leming, where nepotism trumps talent and narrative fluency)[/i]. After that stupid scene, rather than the scene with Claire & Cas, I would have preferred they stayed with her & Dean, with Dean giving her some tough love, then saying [i]”hey, you know what. Come with me. I need to show you something that just might help you make sense of this madness you call your life”[/i]. They jump in the Impala, and he takes her back to the MoL bunker, with Sam & Cas waiting. End it there, and next episode you have her starting to get an understanding of the life’s they’ve all lived, the madness they’ve had to put up with and continue to do so. It’s also the episode Charlie comes back. She has a female to connect with, Charlie takes her under her wing for a few episodes, and BAM! Women of Letters. There’s your spin-off series. [b]Booyakasha![/b]
My Dear Russ, that makes to much sense Son. :p:D;)
We can’t have that ruining things.
Bravo as usual.
Cheryl42 – It really did feel like that last scene between Dean and Claire was tacked on. Actually I found the entire way Claire meets two helpful strangers pretty weak. Ideas that I read proposed on this board, as well as others, were more believeable and exciting! Maybe the Nepotisim Duo should read more fan fic and board postings! Must say that this was a beautifully shot episode – lighting, angles… kudos! Loved the Dean/Metatron confrontation. Metatron really is the villain you just love to hate! Hard to figure out which way they are going with the MOC. Sometimes it looks like its going to be permanent, something Dean will have to learn to control and live with (and then theres that whole immortality thing Show would have to work around). Then it appears that he will be saved from the Mark??? I’d like to see him have to deal with it from here on out – consequences for his action of taking the MOC in the first place. Otherwise whats the burden or cost Cain referred to? If each time Dean uses the Mark it further takes him over that would seriously limit any deux ex machina on his part. I’m going to be so disgusted if there’s some lame fairy dust cure. I like what Carver said about Sam being driven to solve it.
Next weeks ep with Charlie looks intriguing – and I’m not a big Charlie fan. In the extended clip it shows Charlie getting out of Baby? How’d that ever happen? In the first clip it showed Sam carrying Charlie while walking up to Dean who it looks like has just given Doppleganger Charlie a beatdown. Either that or shes dead? Im wondering if it’s MOC Dean just based on how he is postioned over her and the way he looks back at Sam??? Sam looks like he is making some kind of expression over the scene he just came across. I dunno, just speculating… I think for a Charlie ep it may just suprise me. I hope that is the real Charlie Sam is talking to but since the bad Charlie gets out of the Impala, I’m thinking probably not?
And would it have killed Dean to offer to make Sam and Cas a sandwich??? I mean he was already making one anyway!!! đ
By Season 10 standards, and considering the writers, this episode was ok but I need to watch it again to finalize my opinion.
The dialog and pacing just aren’t as crisp as in prior seasons. I did like the opening montage, Long Black Road by ELO.
And, again, sorry, I just can’t buy Crowley agreeing to retrieve the First Blade because the Winchesters asked him to. The real Crowley would have wanted something in return. And you would think that maybe Sam and Dean would have wanted to know some additional steps from Metatron before asking Crowley to get the First Blade? That whole setup was kludgy and poorly written. But, then again, in S8, the brothers started down the path of the Trials before knowing the other steps, or ramifications of doing so.
I did like getting a glimpse of the old BAMF Castiel we got in this episode, as opposed to Season 10’s emo / mopey Cas.
[b]Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?[/b]
I think Sam has part of the answer. And I think Sam can relate as he had a hell of time getting his rage/anger under control in S4/S5. Keep in mind, though, that Cain had isolated himself from others so, while he was able to control it, he had to go to extremes to do so. I guess the question is whether the MoC can be removed or will Dean have to learn to live with it? He hasn’t had much success so far.
[b]Do you believe Metatron really knows what to do about the mark, given his history of trickery and lying?[/b]
He probably knows. He did say something while Dean was slicing and dicing “Behold, the river shall end at the source.” Is the source Cain, Lucifer, Abel, a more personal/internal “source” such as something inside Dean (the MoC feeding off of Dean’s rage/anger), or something/someone else?
[b]What is Rowenaâs game here? Is Crowley being manipulated or does he know?[/b]
Rowena is trying to isolate Crowley, make him paranoid and reliant upon her. She also hates demons so she has that going for her. I’m just not buying it; Crowley has survived Lucifer, Lilith, Abaddon, and connived his way to become King of Hell and is now being portrayed as an idiot, craving mommy’s attention? I’m sorry, it’s just not working for me. And while I like their chemistry, Rowena is just a little too campy and over the top.
[b]What do you think will happen with Claire?[/b]
Enough of the teen angst and drama. Any momentum came to a halt when they cut to Claire’s story. And that ending scene seemed tacked on, almost an afterthought. I still think Claire is key to Castiel getting his grace back, fixing the problem with the souls stuck in the veil, breaking Metatron’s spell.
Would like to think Crowley is aware but the way
things are going, who the hell knows.
I miss old Crowley.
The episode was not bad. Sam telling Dean that self control might be part of controlling the MOC seemed to at least make Dean more aware of a need for him to do so consciously. I don’t thing it is a long term solution at this point. While I am glad to be rid of Claire, I once again think Cas did more harm then good. When found, Claire was at least in a safe environment under adult supervision, now she is an underage girl on the road who has been shown to repeatedly make poor decisions about companions. Also suggesting a recently nuclear Dean go and talk to her seemed a poor suggestion as well. At the very least Sam should have gone with him. I’m sure we’ll see Claire again.
It also seemed ridiculous that both Cas and Sam would loose track of what Dean was doing with Metatron right in the bunker but the Dean/Metatron scene was fun to watch. With no other options I could see TFW grasping at a hope they could get information from him though. I think finding Cain would be a better option.
Rowena and Crowley is a ridiculous sl especially for an actor as gifted as Mark Shepard and a King of Hell as smart and ruthless as Crowley. These writers have a serious lack of imagination, IMO.
But all in all not bad in comparison with the last episode and with this writing duo.
when dean was talking to meta, he exactly used sam’s words about killing kevin with his hands in his nightmares and that shows two things, dean understood sam’s feelings and care about that and second, by using sam’s words, dean is actually showing part of sam’s feelings to meta not just himself…and sam clearly showed his feelings about meta, in the first by talking about not care what happens to him and that he killed his brother…
when sam was talking to dean about part of him give in to the mark, hi was showing his own experience from past and his helping figure for his brother, and I think sam needs to be cautious and observing dean’s actions not get feely touchy with meta about kevin…
and every time sam is protecting dean, trusting him and helping him, I can remember season 1 to 7, when dean was doing the same for sam , and I don’t get other’s comments that sam should be big brother or he hadn’t s.b for himself. I think sam got the protection he needed in other seasons and he got it most from dean. like S7 when sam was seeing lucifer and dean helped him understand the difference between reality and hallucinations or S5E18 when sam tells dean “not you from all people” that means how much sam got protection and trust from dean that when he doesn’t get it once is so painful and unexpected.I can write a lot more examples, but few is enough…….
about crowley, I think crowley’s biggest and deepest weakness is his lack of love that was building up in the show from the last episode of season 8 and crowley’s dialogs in blade-runners in S9 and trying to be buddy with dean in S10 and I think he is going through the human road, so he might be under influence of his mother to become a fully human one day or he is going to burn down his mother after finding out her plans which is cool.
about claire’s story, I actually don’t care how that goes. but I also think cas’s grace has something to do with claire’s storyline and dean’s de-marking.
sam’s suggestion to dean about self management, I think will work for dean to become a better dean and learn from his wrong and let go of the blame but hold on to who he is and accept himself and his brother but this suggestion won’t hold back the mark completely and they need the de-marking anyway.
and yes, helping dean and sam was odd for crowley even going to meet them!!! and claire’s story was tolerable… I loved Jensen’s acting and metatron’s too, and god. I love Jared’s sympathetic face and all of his scenes with Jensen as dean was great…
also forgot to mention that when crowley took the blade from sam, I really thought he had a plan to take the mark as well so demons would be afraid and obey him more so he would even not get paranoid about their betrays but apparently crowley has no plan after all. that’s strange since he wanted dean on his side in ruling hell, now he is so passive.it’s unlike crowley!!! and maybe meta would want that power too but I can’t imagine how would it work for an angle, so I scratched them both …
I feel like maybe I’m a little too positive here,but I really liked this episode and I enjoyed every second of Dean and Sam so much:)I also liked the whole Metatron thing and even I liked the way that Claire’s story seemed to have a good ending with kind of a redemption which was affected by Cas’ words and Dean’s action in not killing those two at the end!the actings were great and the directing(like last season’s First Born)was really cool!by the way the answer to some of Qs in my opinion:
[quote]Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?
[/quote]
I’m not so sure,but I’m sure that Dean will try his best to don’t let Sam down after what he said and the strength that his little bro gave him,so I guess Sam might be right and also I guess a big part of this force could be the great bond that the winchesters have and their whole “us against the world”.I just loved Sam in this episode and his effort to support his brother!(as I liked Cas and of course Dean too;) )
[quote]Do you believe Metatron really knows what to do about the mark, given his history of trickery and lying?
[/quote]
I think he was telling the truth but trusting Meta completely won’t be an option.he was really interesting and villain in this episode!first he was afraid of Sam and then Dean and after that he was messing with Dean’s mind so bad that even the Mark started to glow!and wow,Jensen’s acting was brilliant here and after Sam arrived and took him back!
about Crowley,I just don’t want him to fall for Rowena’s tricks and be the sharp and smart king of hell that we know and doesn’t trust her!although watching Rowena is kinda interesting for me too!
and about Clair,I think we saw another glimpse of angles’ true mission of protecting humanity in her story and I’d like her to not show up soon,as this could be a good temprery conclusion for her story line.by the way it was cool that she recognized killing Dean won’t the solution for her sorrow(and I was kinda upset with Dean’s look at her after those couples’ attack,but I really liked the way he managed to not kill them,so I guess he was thinking about Sam’s earlier words!)
and as the last thing I agree with what daniel said about being big brother and protecting each other!
TNX!
The things I liked about this episode in no particular order:
Dean was finally open and honest about how he’s feeling.
Sam and his wet hair. Lordy….heart palpitations…
Sam’s showing his endless faith in Dean’s ability to overcome anything, even himself.
Dean’s very sexy entrance into the dungeon.
The visual part of this episode was very good.
What I didn’t like:
The ridiculousness of Dean going to meet Claire by himself after he’d just had an uncontrollable killing episode. There was no reason for Sam not to be there other than a contrived plot device to show Dean overcoming the mark’s influence and Sam being there to help would not have detracted from that one iota.
Crowley’s OOC behavior. I really, really hope he’s going to get his act together because Mark deserves better than this. And I agree with Russ, the writing was just crap. I want to enjoy Rowena’s machinations but not at the expense of Crowley’s smarts.
Castiel leaving Claire to walk off by herself with no money and nothing else, after hearing her say she was going to hitchhike. At least give her a damn ride somewhere. Seriously, such poor, poor writing. And the chance meeting with people willing to kill someone for her……there is not an eye rolling emoticon strong enough for this.
And finally, I’m seriously irritated that Dean got to go medieval on Metatron instead of Sam. Or maybe I should say that Sam should have gotten to go off for a bit too. I mean, despite how the writers seem to think that Sam has no feelings about his own life whatsoever, this a-hole was the one who was driving Gadreel and there was not ONE FRIGGING MENTION of that for Sam. But no, as usual, Dean got to not only beat the bad guy, but we get to hear all about Dean’s inner workings and all the bad stuff he’s done, Gadreel included, and blah, blah, blah from the bad guy AGAIN.
So there it is. The only thing that really saved it for me was Jared and Jensen and their chemistry in this. I really felt their brotherhood in this, with Sam and his faith and Dean actually allowing some vulnerability to show through. I really did like that part.
It was a great episode and as it was very early for me and I probably was a zombie I actually focused on all the characters better. For some reason the episode felt for me like I was reading a book. Maybe I should watch the episodes more tired. Aaaanyway…
[b]Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?[/b]
It is one try of many that I am sure is to come. The self management might work a while but in the long run… Don’t know.
[b]Do you believe Metatron really knows what to do about the mark, given his history of trickery and lying?[/b]
He probably knows, but don’t think he would tell or if he would it would be a lie.
[b]What is Rowenaâs game here? Is Crowley being manipulated or does he know?[/b]
That is the interesting part. She is using hex bags and Crowley is still influenced with human blood. Crowley is doubting her but his guard is not fully up. I am not sure what her end game is but it is not anything good. Also Rowena has had one demon back up her story so it is not only her word. The thing what I realized was when I saw the last episode that she is removing those demons Crowley trust and are sort of his “best men” out of the way. First the jailer and now the butler. I will miss the butler. He was actually awesome. Anyway, both close servants have died. She tried first Crowley just to loose trust in them but I think them ending up dead is as good for her. Crowley is not having back up soon what ever her move will be.
Oh, and actually Rowena is doing stuff and being on screen more than Abaddon. Did I mention she is bad news? She is acting like a stuck up noble from old times. đ
What do you think will happen with Claire?
I think Claire will be gone now. The farther from the trio she is the better she is in my opinion. She grew on me this episode. Before something annoyed me about her a lot but I rather see the whole story before giving up on characters completely. She made the right choice by warning Dean but also stopping him from killing those two idjits… She might come around but not anytime soon I think.
All in all, the boys did fine, Crowley is screwed, his mother is bad news for sure. Can’t wait what happens next.
– Lilah
Sam was wonderful.But the thing is he had less screen time.The montage they showed at the beginning if some one was watching the show for the first time would have thought Sam was a side character.
If I compare to how supportive to sam is with Dean now to how not supportive Dean was of Sam after Sam broke the last seal (even knowing he broke the first) I really wish Sam was the elder brother.The maturity Sam has shown is making me happy.Other than that the episode was boring.Who ever the actress is who is playing rowena is not very good.This is the first female actress in the show I have not liked.Claire:She forgave Castiel so easily tracie should learn some lessons from Claire.
I would like Dean to have to live with the Mark like some monsters (Benny, Kate, Garth) have to live with their monsterhood. He may even be immortal right now. As seasons go on this may change. As for Crowley and mom, I don’t know if he understand what she is doing but it would be fun if Sam and Dean had to save him from mom.
I really enjoyed this episode. Not all of it, of course. I can skip over any part that Claire was in. But the rest was very good. I found myself smiling when Sam was smiling when Cas asked Dean to talk to Claire and the reasons he gave. Sure, it was a silly plot point, but it was cute. I enjoyed Rowena and Crowley and anticipate a big showdown. Metatron is always entertaining and creepy, Curtis Armstrong is great.
I decided at the beginning of the season not to have expectations, especially when I realized I was getting irritated at a darn good show because it wasn’t doing what I wanted it to do, it wasn’t in line with the story in my head. And, although I still have a story in my head, I thought this year I’m just going to sit back and let them tell their story. It’s actually worked for me (for the most part, I still yell at the TV but then I rewatch with a different perspective). I find I am enjoying the ride again, I’m trying not to look at spoilers nor read reviews that I might agree with that only upset me. Still, oddly, when I started watching this episode I had little expectation since I’d read and heard some things during the painfully long hellatus. I was surprised I enjoyed it, it went quickly (except for Claire) and left me wanting more and that’s all I ask for. Well, and Sam looks Goooood all wet!
That is my mindset as well.
I always keep my mind at the new story. Where it takes me. For example I have done it when separating a book from the movie that was made from it. They are totally different ways to tell the story. I would be bored out of my mind for example if LOTR on the dot would follow the book + it would be probably 24 hours long or something. Everyone has their own views of the story. Hell, even I have my own but I don’t expect they ever do what I want them to do. I am only one for say like 2,5 million that watch.
I can actually focus Supernatural as a whole and even if I like Dean better I like all the characters. Why I like Dean better I can’t really tell. I guess it is just what people like or prefer but it does not turn me for seeing the series as a whole. I just want to enjoy what I watch and I like multiple stories and I am exited to see where they go with the story. The series change and this season is again different than the last. And this episode was good for me. Maybe Claire worked little bit better for me this time because she was not that much in the episode. And well, all stories connected to the boys some way.
Anyway, glad to hear different point of views for time to time. đ
– Lilah
Curtis Armstrong was terrific last night! Such a dedicated performance of such an unlikeable character! đ
[quote]Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?[/quote]
If the Mark is symbolic for the darkness Dean has always carried, I would love to see self-management work. Dean is a powerful individual with a strong will, and self-management would fit right in with the character. I would also like that if the Mark is so ancient, that it “pre-dates” the lore (and does that mean it pre-dates Lucifer?) that it could be used for good (with self-management), just as it could be used for evil. Do I think that will be the resolution? No. Carver has already told us multiple times that Sam will save Dean, and that probably means getting rid of it.
[quote]Do you believe Metatron really knows what to do about the mark, given his history of trickery and lying?[/quote]
Metatron is a character with no future. It was clearly shown in this episode that there is no room for character growth. For some reason, he is envious of Dean, but I don’t know why. He tried to goad Dean with the First Blade and saying things similar to what Alistair previously said to Dean, but it didn’t work. I saw no guilt in MoC Dean. I did think Metatron was used well in this episode, even if I can’t stand the character. The Dean/Metatron scenes were terrific; both JA and CA. Metation may know something about the MoC, but there is no reason for him to be helpful to the Winchesters or to Cas.
[quote]What is Rowenaâs game here? Is Crowley being manipulated or does he know?[/quote]
It’s not like Rowena is going to gain any powers if she plans on taking over Crowley’s throne. She’s a witch — that’s it. She won’t be able to teleport or have any more powers than she has right now. It could be that she wants to be Crowley’s puppet master and have power through him. The fact is, it is an awful story. I certainly hope that Crowley is wise to her, because he is looking like a moron (poor Mark S.; he is much too talented for his character to be ‘humanized’ and to be made to look dumber than a fence post).
[quote]What do you think will happen with Claire?[/quote]
I was hoping she would get hit by a bus as she walked down that lonely country road to ‘go it alone.’
My comments regarding the episode:
JA is a brilliant talent and has outgrown the writers and Supernatural. He needs to move on. That boy can chew up scenery when he is given something good to work with, and the MoC is a good story. Unfortunately, it is interrupted every time by the other two boring and irrelevant stories. I mourn what could have been the best season in years if the Winchesters had the screen time to fully develop it and the Winchesters’ relationship to be fully explored.
I am liking the direction Sam is headed this season.
Claire is another one of those ill-conceived, TV trope ‘belligerent teenager,’ and I could care less about her. As far as I can tell, Cas is a full angel now. Jimmy is dead, and that means his soul is in Heaven. Castiel should not be affected or interested in Claire in any way. Had she prayed to him for help and he felt duty-bound to help her, I might could buy into it. Had she not been raised in a very religious, loving home during her formative years, spent another five years under her mother’s care — a woman who seemed to be religious, too, and doing everything she could to hold her family together, and then another unspecified time with her grandmother, I might be able to buy into ‘street smart’ Claire. Sadly, I just find her grating and dumb, and there is no way the writers are going to may me sympathetic to her (even though I think they tried there at the end).
I liked Rowena up until this episode. Just too, too much, and making a moron of Crowley makes her story unbearable. Between Claire/Cas and Rowena/Crowley, I may have to start recording the show and become BFFs with the FF button.
Overall, the episode was a bit too much on the slow side.
I like that they cast someone who had a distinctive look in the role of a demon. They should do that more often.
Does a part of Rowena hate her son? I think that she was acting too theatrical with the hex bag etc.
The scene showing Dean in his room was a bit hokey. Would he actually look around like that like he is all lost? And always with the mirrors!
Rowenaâs dress was pretty and very appropriate for the character.
Crowley likes fine things so would he really keep his throne in a room that is all rusty etc.?
I liked some of Crowleyâs snarky comments like [i] âMommy! Bored? Suicidal? Both?â [/i]
The VFX team was trying to show off in this episode. However, I think that the special effects of the door to Heaven were too boring to be showcased like that.
Rowena using a spell to spy on Crowley was cool at first but the special effects went on for too long again.
Crowley seemed to be on oddly good terms with the Winchesters. He had acted downright hateful towards Sam when Dean had been a demon. Was Crowley excited to get a call from Dean because he knew that he would get too meet him (and Sam) again?
Jared looked sexy with wet hair.
Too much focus was on Rowena trying to manipulate Crowley. It should have had a more direct connection to the Winchesters.
The acting throughout the episode was a bit off at times but Curtis had some good moments.
I like that Metatron brought up the issue of Sam having been possessed etc.
I like that it looked like Jared ran for real when Sam realized what Dean was doing.
Why did Castiel wait so long before breaking the door so they could stop Dean? Maybe he is attempting to conserve his grace.
Sam flicking his hair back all irritated when he was interrupted by a phone call and it shifted his brotherâs attention from him. đ
There was a little too much of Sam just sitting in front of a computer (off-screen).
I think that the couple making evil faces would have made more sense if they had known about Claireâs connection to the Winchesters due to being part of the supernatural world.
They should film more scenes in a similar style to the one where the couple advanced on Dean and then they fought without stuntmen, magical weapons etc. The scene felt raw, more real.
I got the impression that Claire approved the hit on Dean at first. I thought that it was weird that Castiel just let Claire go on alone like itâs all good. She didnât even have a car. She clearly needs psychiatric help regardless of having ended up warning Dean of the danger he was in.
[quote] [b] Bookdal: [/b] he takes their weapons and is about to kill them when Claire yells stop. He stops and instead brings the axe he is carrying down on the wooden bench. [/quote]
It seems that the scene showed Dean starting to learn to control himself better. Claire doesnât have a connection with Dean like Sam does so I donât think she would have been able to stop Dean on her own.
[quote]I think that the special effects of the door to Heaven were too boring to be showcased like that.[/quote]It went for too long.I thought the same.[quote]I think that she was acting too theatrical with the hex bag etc.[/quote]agree.[quote]I like that it looked like Jared ran for real when Sam realized what Dean was doing.
[/quote]I noticed that too.[quote]I think that the couple making evil faces would have made more sense if they had known about Claireâs connection to the Winchesters due to being part of the supernatural world.
[/quote]Yes
Do you think the self management will work for the mark? Is Sam right?
Honestly, in theory it should. Think about Demon Dean…he was fairly tame for a demon. (though lately demons in general are mediocre threats) I think it had to do with the kareoke. (music tames the savage beast) Maybe Dean needs to do kareoke once a week.
Do you believe Metatron really knows what to do about the mark, given his history of trickery and lying? I think he knows things. Course, if the writers want him to, he will. And if they can’t think of a better way to impart a solution – like Sam being the smart Man of letters he’s supposed to be – they will give Metatron the role of revealing info.
What is Rowenaâs game here? Is Crowley being manipulated or does he know? my question is..Do the writers even know what Rowenas game is? I think Crowley is being easily manipulated because he’s obsessed with Dean and their bromance so illustrated with how eager he was to see Dean and came running at Deans beck adn call.
What do you think will happen with Claire? What i’d like to happen to her is she meets a grisley end to at JAson Vorhees machete. But the writers will have her magically be able to survive on her own despite any intellegence or survival instincts and be important to Cas’ grace issues once everyone has completely forgotten there were issues in the first place.
Others have mentioned Dean bringing an ax when he met Clair. Is this Deans favored weapon when he doesn’t have the One Blade? he (demon Dean) did try to kill Sam with an Ax.
[quote] he (demon Dean) did try to kill Sam with an Ax. [/quote]
It was a hammer. Demon Dean didnât just want to kill Sam, he wanted to inflict maximum amount of pain and fear. What made it more disturbing was that demon Dean had been human enough that the cuffs hadnât worked like intended and he had been able to escape from the Devilâs trap.
There is definitely a theme of turning mundane things like an ax, a bat or a hammer into weapons. And killing someone by using any of them is very violent and requires close contact.
Dean didn’t bring any weapons with him. The girl had the bat and the guy had the axe. Just an FYI.
And Sam killed Paris Hilton using an axe in 5.05 [i] Fallen Idols[/i]. đ