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Alice
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Annette

Wow! Nothing but shock aftershock on tonight episode. I have no idea how they'll in this season. But I do have some questions… Has Castile lost all of his powers? For Dean to take them out tonight, I couldn't believe it. Or is the Mark of Cain conquer an angel? Also, I'm surprised that the Stynes were able to get into the bunker. I know that they're not demons that type of creatures, but I would've thought that the place will be guarded against anybody who didn't have the key? Anybody else have thoughts?
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Alice
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Connie

Holy Crap! All I can say is 'what an intense epi!!" wow! I am still reeling over the show. What I had guessed would happen isn't at all what happened. And after the last two seasons where I could pretty much guess the next move of the writers I am impressed, happy and stunned! Stunned 'cause I thought I had it all figured out! Back to the drawing board I see! It was a great episode...intense (as I mentioned), kept me on my toes, and really well written...at least from Dean's perspective. I think that Sam wasn't as well written this epi...or (and I hate myself for saying this) it was like Jared was predictable in his acting. I am not sure it was him, the writing, or just me figuring out what was going to happen next (for everything else I was left guessing wrong!). I love Jared, love how he can bring warmth to a scene, I love our show and our writers...but I dunno...something was off. Or perhaps that was the idea? We were supposed to feel like something wasn't quite right? What do you all think?
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Alice
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Daisymae

I screamed when I thought Dean killed Cass, but when I didn't see the white light I realized he must not be dead. I do think the Mark has taken over because there is no way our Dean would have killed that kid. He would have given him a chance and don't forget he was human. This is bad. And Crowley is back, the real Crowley. Boy, did Rowena screw up and I doubt she makes it out of Season 10 alive. That hex bag must have eliminated the affects of the human blood so now we no longer have a friendly touchy-feely King of Hell. This show always pulls it out at the end of the season and it's amazing they can still do it. They must have made a deal with you know who.
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Alice
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Jen

Agreeing with you both, I'm still trying to come down from so much tension.What a incredible actor Jensen Ackles is he has changed his whole personna I'm terrified. I too love both boys and yes Sam (or Jared ) seemed off. Was it him or the writing, he didn't appear to be putting in ?? I know both boys have said that this season has been personnally draining maybe it has been draging on to long (The darkness )& affecting Jared more then Jensen, he started the season with a operated on sholder maybe they have had to back off some of his work

It looks like Dean has to kill someone with the seath of Deaths - I honestly didn't think Death would have enemies. LOL - something bad is coming.
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CodyMB
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Is Dean under the influence of the Mark?

Yes and no. He definitely has a more ruthless edge to him, but I believe Dean would have done the same thing with or without the Mark. He just wouldn't relish it as much. If he was fully under the influence of the Mark, those police would have been killed right away IMO. Now, when he says it should be Sam instead of Charlie dead, that is part grief and part Mark talking. Also, killing the relatively innocent Styne kid and almost killing Cas? Those two things are without question only because of the Mark's influence. I don't believe there is any debate in that...I just don't buy that, without the Mark, Dean wouldn't have killed the Stynes anyway.

What will Crowley do now that he knows his mother tried to assassinate him?

I've posted my theory as to how this season ends and what the arc of season 11 could be. Thing is, I have no idea where Rowena fits in. She is a wildcard in my mind of theorizing what happens in the finale. I assume she is the one to take the Mark off Dean, although I don't see (even if Sam killed Crowley) her motivation to do so...unless Dean is full on Demon and about to kill her...Crowley said what he is going to do though, he's going to kill Rowena. The question is will he be successful. My gut says yes, but I really don't have much to elaborate on that at the moment.


How far will Sam go to save Dean?

Duh, as far as he has to. He would sacrifice an orphanage to save Dean if the writers figured out how to put it in the right context. I mean Dean and Sam sacrificed closing the gates of Hell to save Sam's life... TBH. Sam has NO choice. It isn't even just to get his brother back, this is something that needs to be done to save lives, not just Deans. As Cas said, Dean would eventually give in and slaughter who knows how many. I hate the emphasis the characters have regarding Sam lying to Dean. Pot, kettle, anybody? It is one of the building blocks of the last 6 seasons sadly. ...Hell, they've kept secrets from each other since S1. Cas eventually comes around though, realizing exactly that (during the convo where he says something about Dean doing whatever it would take to save Sam in the past)


Is this the end of the Frankensteins?

Yes. I'm happy it went the way I thought it would. I know they are supposedly all over the world, but I feel like this episode emphatically stated that the Stynes aren't anything to worry about.


Overall an okay episode. I enjoyed the beginning with the Charlie flashbacks (Kiddo). Seeing Dean destroy what some dreaded would be S11's Big Bad was also nice to see. Hated the fight with Cas. Very happy they didn't let Crowley go out in such a meek manner. The finale could be great, could be terrible. This episode doesn't really tell us much we didn't know, and the last episode could go anywhere.....not to beat a dead horse, but I'm feeling like 42 minutes is a lot of time to throw Metatron back in there during the finale for a quick peek at S11. Just
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iamsam1013
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Yes, I think Dean is under the influence of the mark. When he was speaking to Sam as they burned Charlie's body, I truly hope that was the mark talking. It certainly sounded like Demon-Dean and the things he said to Sam.

I hope that Crowley kills Rowena. I'm glad he's back to his scary self, and that was a super intense scene with him and Sam.

I'm guessing that Sam will go as far as he can to save Dean. Would he give up his own life to save him? I think so...is that being a "Brother's Keeper"? Maybe, but I am usually really wrong in predictions.

I hope it is the end of the Frankensteins. They served their purpose. Move on.

I was really scared that Cas got stabbed, and I was really worried they were going to leave us hanging on that. I think next week is going to be painful.
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CodyMB
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I'm gonna have to watch it again in regards to Sam. Whether it be Jared's acting or the writing. I didn't notice too much off with him, but you are more an expert than I. I saw his scene with Crowley as Sam's heart not in it completely. Like, yes he wanted to kill Crowley, doesn't hold any love for him either, but still it felt like Sam was trying to justify himself throughout the process. He was almost relieved when Crowley initially said Sam was right about what Crowley was (a bad guy.) I just feel like if Sam was 100 percent on killing Crowley, he wouldn't have bothered with the hex bag when he had the knife. He came off slightly conflicted to me, but that is just my interpretation.
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eilf
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I think that Death will agree to remove the mark from Dean if Dean will agree to reap Sam. Because Death is fed up with Dean interfering with the natural order to save Sam. After all in general it is Dean's big 'gotta save Sam' maneuvers that cause the most damage and ripples in the SPN universe.

The logic must be that the only way to ensure Dean will not try to undo it is if Dean is the one to make the final decision TO do it. The delight on Dean's face as he agrees in the preview is just like it was when he was taunting Sam back when he was a demon.

After all Death looked somewhat annoyed when Dean talked Sam into the start of this specific mess back at the start of season 9.

That would make the big relief moment the point at which he doesn't kill Sam. Maybe a reconcilliation? (I am not at all in the frame of mind where Dean gets instant reconcilliation or anything else after the misery that has been this season, but I get that the writers are somehow managing to write a different show to the one I am watching).

And the 'oh no' moment either Crowley interfering and killing someone, or Death taking someone (probably Sam) to punish Dean for not making good on the deal. (He then removes the mark ANYWAY because Dean is too much of a liability to be let continue on with that sort of power)

It doesn't look like Sam is even going to be a major player in the finale (gosh), never mind doing the saving so this is the alternative I see.

I would love for Sam to be returned next season the way Cas was in season 7 - a different person, one who has none of Sam's memories, is not Dean's brother, and can look at Dean with a clear eye. Someone who can in a short space of time make the success of his life that Sam has always had the ability to do and none of the opportunity. It would be nice to know that for a few months out of his 30 odd years Sam could not be weighed down by the guilt laid on him by the actions of other people from before he was even born.
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Alice
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I'm not sure about this. Some parts definitely worked for me, other parts, I'm not sure. I'm having trouble reconciling how Dean could be so much more powerful than Castiel. That makes no sense to me. I know Cas' wings are damaged but, he's still an angel, right? It should have been more of a grudge match. Remember Castiel and Uriel? Why didn't Castiel heal that young Styne kid too? Okay, maybe his healing powers are diminished because he's separated from Heaven. I'll accept that.

Sam so had that coming with Crowley. Best scene of the episode for me. Everything is unraveling for him and he's so in over his head. Rowena is certainly underestimating her son. Do you think Crowley didn't kill Sam so he could save Dean? No, I just think that soft spot for the Winchesters will never end.

I'm still extremely bitter about Charlie and don't see the purpose of her death. It seems like a big waste to me just for Dean to berate Sam and kill the Louisiana branch of the Frankensteins. Ooh, Dean went too far. Yeah, we saw Demon Dean, remember? I get what they're trying to do, but I'm not 100% sure if it worked for me. Maybe I need to see the finished product (aka next week) to see how it all adds up.
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Is Dean under the influence of the Mark?
- I definitely think that the majority of Dean's actions in this episode were influenced by the Mark. The Mark's effect plus all the negative feelings that Dean has going on (i.e. Charlie's death, repressed guilt, etc.) don't make for a good combination.

What will Crowley do now that he knows his mother tried to assassinate him?
- I think Crowley's gonna remind us who's boss. While I don't know what Crowley will do to Rowena now that he knows she tried to kill him, I'll bet that it's something we didn't see coming, even for the King of Hell. But more than anything, I think he's pissed (and feels a bit betrayed) that the Winchesters would work with his mother against him, given their past between them. Crowley probably didn't kill Sam because he (I think) has something up his sleeve and he needs the Winchesters' help to do it.

How far will Sam go to save Dean?
- Sam will do whatever he needs to in order to save his brother. I think that Sam is trying to convince himself and justify that he has to do whatever it takes to save Dean not only because it's his big brother's life on the line, but the greater good.

Is this the end of the Frankensteins?
- Probably. They were a good kind of segue into the return of Demon!Dean. After watching this episode, I feel that Charlie's death wasn't in vain because it was part of what was going to trigger the Mark in Dean, but I'm still thoroughly upset by it. I'm wishing that in future episodes we may get Charlie flashbacks, with her working on breaking the code, but I doubt it.

I have to agree with some of the comments about Jared's acting in this episode. He was great as usual, but it was a bit off and predictable like some of the others have said. It could have been the way the episode was written or maybe Jared was having a bit of a rough time getting through these scenes. Angsty, emotionally charged scenes like the ones in tonight's episode tend to bring out some of the guys' best acting, and Jensen as usual didn't disappoint. Amazing acting by Jensen, I'm always amazed at how he portrays the character's emotions in episodes like these.
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Jen
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Alice if you can't work this out - what hope do I have. LOVED the Ep. brillant acting by Jensen that man doesn't get enough accolades for his acting. Sam OMG his bordering on going nuts his that desperate & his acting is Fantastic. The paraells between Dark Dean and soft gentle Sam is amazing. You won't too kick Dean :( and Hug Sam :)
Everybody is saying it so I will - Whats going on with Cas, I thought he would have thr0wn a beam of light at Dean at least or gave him one good punch. Maybe he is holding back he probably does have more control than Dean at the moment. But please writers some consistence Please.

Saw the preview for next week - always said Death would be the answer. but if death wanted Sam dead Dean wouldn't need that seath- I reckon its for Crowley, a instrument of death like that would be for someone powerful. Remember Dean's decision over the MOC will change Sam's life ?? So he must live, but how will this decision change Sam's life. I don't won't the season to end but can't wait till next wk. Loving Crowley's Red Eyes
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NOLANOLA
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I have to stop reading all these prognostications. I am DESENSITIZED when the episode comes along. OK, my bad. I know how to fix that.

The STYNES were not what I thought they would be so, good riddance to Most of them. No SPIN-OFF of that family.....DONE.

CROWLEY is back. Thank Chuck.
DEANMON lite is GREAT.

ROWENA is in over her head. tehehe
CROWLEY IS BACK =
BAMF.....

DEATH really needs to visit more often but then again HIS CAMEO'S ARE AWESOME.

Still think SAM is due for dying this year.

we shall see.
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Well, that was one hell of a ride for sure.

The strength that Dean has and used in fighting is not human. I think Cas really got a beating from Dean but also I think he was trying not to feed the mark more. Also it seemed the lights were slightly flickering when he was talking to Eldon. Anyway Dean and the episode felt like this:

http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/the-avengers-angry-hulk-smash-loki.gif

to my head.

Is Dean under the influence of the Mark? Oh, yes he is. He was creepily without emotions from outside but inside. Explosion, anger, sorrow and hate. He took on an angel of the lord and tossed him about and beat him up like the Hulk. Everything in this episode was chilling.

What will Crowley do now that he knows his mother tried to assassinate him? Yeeeeeeah, it will be a miracle if she will survive, maybe she gets something out of the book to fight Crowley? Or Crowley wastes her and helps with the cure. Who knows at this point.

How far will Sam go to save Dean? All out at this point. What ever he can do. Maybe if Rowena is killed he makes a deal with the devil, sorry, King of Hell. Same thing.

Is this the end of the Frankensteins? Well, at least that branch of the family is wiped out. Not sure we will see them again.

- Lilah
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Russ
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http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/rookskickz/Humour/fat-cat-f-is-that.gif~original
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HOLY S****************T we saw Crowley's red eyes! That creepy music made it 10x scarier and exciting!

Oh man where do I start? Crowley being BAD ASS? Sam being bad ass? Dean wiping out the Styne family? Dean beating the crap out of Cas? AAHH!! *runs around fangirling* This is one of my favourite episodes before the finale! I just feel like finding the nearest field and running with my arms held up going "WOOOO!!" xD
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SanSummer1
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The episode was not a big wow moment for me but it had some good parts.

I did not like the teaser, it felt really uncomfortable to watch. I also couldn't help but think that the actor who played the youngest member of the Styne family is older than the character was supposed to be.

It was really hard to sympathize with Dean in the funeral scene because Sam was saying things that epitomize who the Winchesters are and what they mean to each other such as, "Dean, you're all I've got. So, of course I was gonna fight for you, because that's what we do." Yet Dean still piled on the guilt even though Sam had just said that he is never going to forgive himself for Charlie's death.

The Stynes seemed super weird. Vivisection is too horrifying for me to watch.

When the other hunter on the phone said to Dean, "Yeah, s-sure, but isn't that what Sam's for?" it felt a little weird to me. Like maybe it was too on the nose. But apparently Dean has been hunting by himself.

I was tempted to stop watching the episode but the scene where Sam got the file that Charlie had sent to him and Sam realized that the code had been cracked was a real shot in the arm!

I liked Cas saying, "I'd be happy to kill her. She just called me a fish," because it reminded me of Cas saying, "Explaining freedom to angels is a bit like teaching poetry to fish," back in season six. I'm not sure if he was just joking. He shouldn't have been actually insulted because of the fish thing, he should be able to understand metaphors.

I liked some of Rowena's sly expressions in the scene. Sam's eyes were pleading when he was trying to get Cas to agree to not shutting down the operation but it seemed that it was ultimately Sam's call to make. On the other hand, Cas did end up finishing Sam's thought i.e. he agreed that both of them know what happens if they don't cure Dean and then Castiel immediately left to find Dean.

Sam said, "Cass, look, I've been the one out there messed up and scared and alone." It seems like the show wanted to make a more explicit parallel between season four Sam's demon blood issue and Dean's current situation with the mark of Cain.

Cas: And Dean -- He did whatever he could to save you.
Sam: Yes. I mean, it's become his thing. I owe him this. I owe him everything.


I think that Sam feels to an unhealthy degree that he has failed to save Dean before. Dean certainly made it worse by positioning the possession thing as just a case of Dean having saved Sam. Dean acted extremely hurt and resentful when Sam didn't see it that way at first and when Sam said that he wouldn't do what Dean had done if the situation were reversed. Because of what ended up happening to Dean, their shared history has morphed into "Dean SAVED me so I'm in debt to him and I have to go to any lengths to save Dean or otherwise I'm falling short," in Sam's mind. Sam does not want to feel like he is less of a brother than Dean is.

It did seem to me that in some parts of the episode Jared went a little too big with his acting.

I really liked the scene where Crowley was sitting at a restaurant. At first I thought that maybe Crowley was attempting to be more human, connecting with a human being on some small level and wanting companionship and a little escape from what leading Hell is like. But then it turned out that he is always closing a deal.

Crowley: "I only ask because your brother and I are such close friends now." Really? And why wouldn't Crowley try to keep Sam closer to him?

Crowley said, "That's what I get for trying to be the good guy. --- Do you have any idea what I've been at for the past year? The changes I made to hell!" Was that a reference to Crowley telling demon Dean, "Together we create the perfect hell," in 10.01 Black? Did he think that making hell less horrible for souls would help to accomplish that? But hell is hell.

The scene where Crowley's eyes were revealed was really intense. What is he? It looked like he had some kind of reptile creature's eyes, his eyes were sick-looking. Yellow-Eyes also had eyes that did not look like human eyes that just have an unnatural color like other demons' do. Also the part where Crowley was vomiting blood was done well, it really looked painful.

I got the impression that Crowley could have gone the other way too i.e. try and want to become more human. However, it would have been too much to expect Sam to be the one to reach out to Crowley considering the way Crowley had treated him after Dean had become a demon, how he had played Dean so that Dean would receive the mark of Cain, how Crowley killed Sarah and had tried to kill Kevin etc. etc.

Sam said that Crowley is a monster but it felt like it might have been more about Sam knowing the feeling. Sam's words might make Crowley's nihilism and self-hatred worse. Sam should know that even Crowley is not beyond redemption but Crowley had used up all of his favors. And it seems like Crowley has been interested in Dean only and not trying to re-build his relationship with both of the Winchesters despite how he likes to identify Sam as "the smart one".

Why is Sam still supposed to kill Crowley? I'd think that Sam having tried to kill Crowley would be enough, a show of good faith. Yet now Sam is supposed to try to chase Crowley down? Although I do think that Sam could have killed Crowley already if he had really put his mind into it.
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This was a mixed bag for me. One of my biggest quibbles is the whole issue of Cas's and Crowley's and Dean's respective powers. The fight between Cas and Dean made no sense. We know Cas with borrowed grace was more powerful than partly demon Dean, so why was a not-yet-demon Dean able to defeat him so easily? At first I thought it was because Cas really wasn't fighting back because he didn't want to hurt Dean. But he just lay there saying "don't" as Dean was about to stab him. Is it because Dean is fully under the influence of the MOC? But in the past the MOC never seemed to bestow superhuman powers on Dean- powers that would let him rip off leather bindings (yet apparently would not let him rip a plastic bag off his head!). And if he's fully under the MOC why didn't he kill the cops and Cas? It makes no sense because TPTB have never laid out coherent rules for the MOC, so this is just the latest mass of inconsistencies. As far as Cas, even Alastair wasn't able to defeat him quite so effortlessly, so I thought it was very jarring and disappointing to have him be such a pushover.

Regarding Crowley, I quite enjoyed that scene. Crowley hasn't been that scary in .....well, EVER. When his eyes started glowing red and his whole demeanor changed, that was great. He's had such an awful story line and persona this year that I was glad to see evil Crowley. But this Crowley who could effortlessly pluck out the anti-demon bullet and burn the hex bag seemed at odds with earlier Crowley. TPTB have always been very vague about Crowley and his powers, and it never really made sense to me that a run of the mill crossroads demon could suddenly gain Alastair-like powers and become king of hell. We saw that he was invulnerable to the demon knife when Meg stabbed him with it. But then San and Dean easily subdued him with the demon cuffs. Yet now, he easily overcomes the demon bullet and what I assume is a very powerful demon-killing hex bag. I would like just a few loose parameters for the powers of all of these characters. It's starting to get really annoying that their powers vary in accordance with the needs of the plot. Anyway, while I enjoyed the unexpected emergence of evil Crowley, I hope this does not signify the return of him as the big bad. Something new, please! I loved Sam's attitude towards Crowley-"hurry up and die" was a hoot. And I saw no ambiguity in Sam's feelings. He's always hated Crowley, right from the start. He never bromanced with him like Dean. So his attitude in this scene made complete sense to me. He was impatient that Rowena is compelling him to do this before she'll decode the book, he knows the clock is ticking for Dean, and he's wanted to kill Crowley for ages. That whole scene worked for me in every way.

I enjoyed most of the other aspects of the episode. The funeral pyre scene was better than I expected because Sam did speak up for himself somewhat. Suddenly we're getting big gushers of Sam POV after a three-year long drought, and I'm hoping this isn't it for the next three years. Although it didn't escape my attention that in the brothers' Charlie flashbacks they didn't have a whole lot of footage to work with between Charlie and Sam. And I couldn't help wondering why Kevin, who played a much bigger role in their lives, didn't get near as big a sendoff. I loved Dean's Styne rampage. I had a wait and see attitude towards the Stynes as the big bads, but apparently the wait is over, as are the Stynes. And I liked the Dean/Cas verbal confrontation, with Cas finally giving voice to his agreement with what Sam is trying to do.

Finally, I have to vehemently disagree with those who thought Sam/Jared seemed off. He was all over the place for good reason. Setting aside the horror show that was Sam's entire adulthood, just look at the last year. Dean dies in his arms, disappears, is revealed as a demon, tries to kill Sam, almost dies from the cure Sam is using, and then ensues a year in which Dean gradually succumbs to the MOC. A year in which Sam is unceasingly thinking/worrying about Dean and how to save him, suffering the stress of hiding his admittedly risky plan from Dean, feeling horrible guilt about Charlie, having Dean tell him he wishes Sam was dead, and knowing that Dean is now at the tipping point. Frantic doesn't come close to describing his emotions. He, and the situation, are completely unraveling. He must be an emotional and mental basket case. This is the Sam from earlier years, who didn't keep his every thought and emotion bottled up. It probably seems off to people because what we've gotten the past few years is a repressed, reticent, emotionless Sam. I love that his actions and emotions are seesawing all over the place. This is how a normal person would react in situations of unbelievable stress. I thought Jared's portrayal was perfect, and I'm so glad that he's finally getting this chance to once again portray a fully fleshed out Sam, rather than the cardboard cutout TPTB have given him and us lately.
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NOLANOLA
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No matter how you ''FEEL'' physically you should be ''ON''
Jared was off but Sam's whole psyche this season is
scared and confused and bewildered.
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SanSummer1
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Okay, has Dean been that annoying this whole time like he was when he was arrested and when he was at the station?

Dean's superior attitude wasn't that much fun to watch because you just knew that Dean was going to be fine and come out on top so you just had to wait for what you knew was coming i.e the crooked cops getting their assess kicked by Dean. Dean reminded me too much of how he was in episode 9.22 (also written by Andrew Dabb) i.e. the whole dictator thing and threatening angels during interrogations. I think that they were trying to showcase Dean's practical fighting skills when he took down a cop while sitting on a chair but I wasn't that impressed maybe because of Dean having the mark of Cain. I think that 2.07 The Usual Suspects was much better. Back then, Dean's cockiness was something fun to watch, he was even charming but not anymore, something has been lost. Get the mark of Cain off of Dean, let's have the real Dean back.

Watching Dean in the car getting arrested etc. it was like now I know how Jensen probably felt in season 9. It made me think: I just want the happy-go-lucky Dean back, please. Enough with this shit. It's not enjoyable to watch Dean being under the influence of the mark of Cain.

It's good that the Stynes were armed and prepared to face Dean. Dean doesn't seem to think ahead much with the mark of Cain on his arm. A character being suffocated with a plastic bag is horrifying to watch but the scene was unintentionally comical because I was reminded of a blowfish because of the lips. :D

The mark was influencing Dean's style of killing but it's interesting that even as a demon, Dean had given Lester a chance to back down. Before the mark, Dean had always avoided killing humans because that's not in the job description of a hunter but now Dean was acting like a hitman.

Styne: And we'll let you go, then what? You'll just mosey on down the road?
Dean: No. But I will be human, so maybe a few of you live. Maybe.


If Dean didn't have the mark, he would probably have let some of them live.

I liked how Dean acted in the operation room a lot better than how he was in the previous scenes. It was good to explicitly see that the mark does make Dean hulk out since he was able to get out of the restraints. Although it could have been interesting to see Dean flatlining and coming back as a demon.

When Cas told Sam, "Home. Dean's coming home," it sounded like he was talking about the Bogeyman. :D

It looks like the more Dean kills, the worse he gets, it shuts down parts of Dean. Castiel told Sam that Dean killed everyone brutally so it seems that clean kills don't feed the mark the same way. However, Dean was not scary to me at the Bunker, he was just sort of stone-faced.

It seemed like the boy felt something when he looked at a framed family picture of Sam, Dean, and Bobby. He saw a ticket to freedom when Dean told that the whole Styne family was dead.

But Dean sounded very much like Cain when he told the boy, "Oh, you are like them. There's bad in you. It's in your blood. Now, you can deny it, and you can run from it all you want, but that bad... will always win." Once Dean comes out of this from the other side, I think that he will regret killing the boy. Just because Dean felt that his bloodline is tainted doesn't mean that the boy was rotten to the core for being a Styne.

Why did Dean go the extra mile by pretending that he was going to let the boy live? At least when he had tried to act like he was going to shake hands with Gadreel in episode 9.22, it could be seen as a tactical move on Dean's part to get close enough to the angel to stab him. Maybe there was a brief moment of consideration before Dean decided to shoot the boy or maybe he wanted the boy to feel relief a moment before his death.

Killing the boy might have been part of the promise Dean made at Charlie's funeral, "Oh, I'm gonna find whoever did this, and I'm gonna rip apart everything and everyone that they've ever loved---"

It was super weird to me that Dean was able to beat up an angel like he did. Even when Dean had been part demon, Cas had been able to restrain him.

I'm not sure why Dean considered killing Cas or why Cas didn't put up more of a fight. It's not like he should have tried to put his hand on Dean's face to kill him but he could have tried to incapacitate Dean. On the other hand, Cas probably felt that fighting back would have provoked Dean more. Even Castiel putting his hand on Dean's shoulder was too much for Dean.

I think it could have been more interesting if Dean had taken the angel blade to Cas but it only takes one stab to kill an angel with the blade so I understand why it didn't happen.

This episode will probably give a lot of Destiel feels to some fans. Castiel saying, "And everyone you know, everyone you love -- they could be long dead. Everyone except me. I'm the one who will have to watch you murder the world, so if there's even a small chance that we can save you, I won't let you walk out of this room," is very true but I dunno, the ending made it only about Castiel and Dean. Sam was an afterthought in the entire situation. Episode 9.22 was also more about Cas and Dean's relationship.

I understand why Cas thinks that Dean would eventually become like Cain but I'm not 100% sure that that fatalistic thinking is correct. But of course when Sam would eventually pass away, Dean would have a much harder time to continue to try to resist the mark. Even as a human, he needs Sam by his side. Dean would have to try to fight against the mark for the rest of the eternity, he would not get the sweet relief of death ever and he and Sam would be separated forever. I hope that Dean will realize on his own that he wants to be with Sam. Or that Sam will truly get through to Dean and it results in Dean getting rid of the mark. The blood cure was disappointing because it was so mechanical, at no point had Dean wanted to come back to his family.
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njspnfan
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Is Dean under the influence of the Mark?

Yes but part of it is also Dean being Dean; he hasn't been terribly likeable, downright dickish at times during The Carver era. I did laugh out loud when Eldon Styne started rolling up his sleeves to fight Dean, and Dean shoots him in the head. And I guess him killing the tiniest Styne was to indicate that he finally crossed a line? That was telegraphed.

What will Crowley do now that he knows his mother tried to assassinate him?

No surprise that Sam couldn't kill Crowley but did manage to piss him off enough to have him go full on evil again. Crowley was a crossroads demon so I always thought he had red demon eyes but there was something different about them - will have to watch again. Rowena is now able to read the BOTD so I'm sure she'll be double crossing everyone in the last episode, and wreaking havoc. Way to go, Sam; it's Season 4 all over again.

How far will Sam go to save Dean?

A few weeks ago I mentioned I didn't like where things were headed. Sam is coming across as whiny and desperate but at least The Carver has been consistent in presenting him as an incompetent and incapable, but "mature", hunter. Geez... you'd think some lessons would have been learned along the way but this must be what the majority of fans like so I guess not. And, for the record, Sam won't end up saving Dean; I said at the start of the season - as long as Carver is running the show, Sam will never be given what would be considered a "big win".

Is this the end of the Frankensteins?

Probably; What a wasted opportunity, kind of like the Mother of All in S6.

And what exactly is Castiel anyway? He couldn't angel flick or otherwise stop Dean? Didn't make much sense. We know Dean has uber strength now but they're all over the map on this one. And Castiel was able to restrain Demon Dean at the start of S10 when he had stolen grace.

Some of us called the fact that the MoL bunker would be compromised this week so hurray for us. So much for the bunker being warded/protected; I guess Sam and Dean upgraded the entrance and installed sliding glass doors with motion detectors. Part of me was wishing they would have destroyed the bunker and turned this back in to road show.

This episode was okay but I'll reserve final judgment till I see what happens next week.


Speculative stuff for next week -

So it looks like Death is back so Dean will be able to save himself with Death's help. Kind of a cheap out, like Sam's "fix" in The Born Again Identity, but I'll wait and see where they go with this. Whatever happens, I'm sure it will require a sacrifice on Dean's part; just wondering what Death would want; since Sam and Dean have disrupted the natural order on a global scale, perhaps part of Death removing the mark will either be Dean reaping Sam, or Death changing things so Sam and Dean are no longer brothers and therefore can no longer disrupt the natural order?
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sylvia37
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So I watched again this morning and unfortunately, the episode didn't really stand up for me. I don't think Jared was off, I think the script was. I listened to the dialogue more closely this time and watched the scenes and they were just poorly written and melodramatic. At least that scene where Sam tells Cas about Charlie was. I found that both Jared and Misha seemed to be trying very hard to make that scene "work" but it was just badly written dialogue.

I don't like watching this MOC Dean. Dean has always been self righteous, dictatorial and a dick when he's angry at Sam, but he's also a lot of good things too, and that's just gone now. I don't see how he's coming back from this and I'm afraid that all the things he's done to Sam and everyone else will be swept under the rug. I have no faith that he will finally learn anything or appreciate Sam's unending faith in him.

And speaking of that faith, Sam Winchester is a f$%^ing saint. That whole, " he saved me and I owe him everything" speech.... it's actually getting ridiculous. I'm so tired of Sam being allowed to get angry over something Dean does, i.e. killing Amy, tricking him into getting possessed by an angel, and then it all being completely negated by writers who apparently just want to showcase how saint Dean has had to put up with his whiny, ungrateful brother all of these years. And I can't tell you how much I wanted to Cas to give Dean an earful about who was really to blame for this mess, but nope.

So I'm with njspnfan. Sam will not win. He will not save Dean because Dean has decided, for some reason next week, that he wants to be saved (again) and summons Death. Sam will sit and research and repeat his lines from the last 22 episodes on rote and then......get knocked out in the corner and wake in time to cry over whatever has happened while he was knocked out (again).

Sorry for the negativity but I'm sad and disillusioned and I can't seem to let this show go no matter how much it disappoints me.
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NOLANOLA
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A Very Supernatural Christmans is coming on in 10 minutes on TNT. AHHHH those were the days. :)
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NOLANOLA
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RUDY shall remain off screen a la Charlie from CHARLIE'S ANGELS fame.
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SanSummer1
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Crowley: You're right. I am a monster.
Sam: Mm.
Crowley: And I've done bad. I've done things you can't even imagine -- horrible, evil, messy things. And I've loved... Every... Damn... Minute. So, thank you, Sam, for reminding me who I really am.


I do not think that that's entirely true.

Crowley feeling like he is not good enough for Sam or his Mother despite his best efforts could be very dangerous. But maybe he thinks that Dean has not forsaken him yet so he wants to help Dean get rid of the mark.

On the other hand, "I thought... If I did better... I might actually feel something again... that it might matter," sounds more selfish like Crowley was still chasing the dragon.

Sam: Is that you talking or the Mark?
Dean: Does it matter?


I felt that Dean's comment was really weird. It seems like it was not just the mark talking when Dean told Sam, "I think it should be you up there and not her," among other things.

A real surprise and a bold move would have been Dean stabbing Cas but on the other hand, it seems too soon for that, Dean was not that far gone.

I felt like Cas could have helped Dean better by trying to overpower Dean in the fight. But maybe he feared that Dean was too evenly matched with him (Dean hadn't been in 10.03 Soul Survivor even though he had still been a demon to a certain degree...) so fighting Dean or trying to stop him other than verbally would have just fueled the rage and hatred Dean was feeling because of the mark. But maybe it went too far, the situation spiraled so fast out of control that Cas wasn't able to defend himself even when it seemed like Dean was close to stabbing him with the angel blade.

Cas said, "I'm the one who will have to watch you murder the world." To me that sounds too definitive and hyperbolic. I think that Dean will need others to have faith in him in order to gain control back from the mark. But Castiel had to try to make Dean understand why it is so important to continue to try to find a cure for Dean.

Dean knows how hard it has been to resist the mark. How does he imagine that he is going to be able to last for the rest of the eternity? I'd like to know if it's supposed to be easier or harder to resist the mark's influence as a demon (like Cain was) than as a human.

I'm also confused about how much stronger the mark makes Dean when he is still human. Does he have the power of telekinesis only regarding the Blade? In episode 9.16 Blade Runners, did Dean hulk out and free himself from chains when Crowley gave the Blade to Dean for the first time? Or did Crowley let Dean out? It seems that the Blade gives Dean more physical strength, otherwise Dean would have gotten himself out of the restraints that the Stynes had put him in quicker than he did.
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CodyMB
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I didn't watch the teaser for next week so I didn't know Death was coming back when i wrote my first response...makes my Metatron thoughts less likely..I love Death's cameos up to this point, absolutely love them...but I can't say i'm excited about it this time. Death was the answer to Sam's soul problem, I don't want him to be the answer to what basically amounts to Dean's soul problem also...if that is the way they are choosing to go. Just sayin
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eilf
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To the poster above (in an effort to get this message noticed) Hi there, you seem to have put your email address instead of a user name. It is visible so you might want to ask Alice to remove it for you.
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Lilmac48
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Alice, I've always enjoyed your thoughts on the episodes and think they are spot on. Since everyone so far has answered your questions I'm going to say I agree with almost all of them. The Mark has taken over Dean because he's become so cold and calculating and not the Dean we had come to love. I can understand Sam doing anything and everything to get his brother back to what he was. Which is what Dean did by getting an Angel to "take over" Sam when he was dying. The guys think they're doing the right thing but there always an innocent victim. Kevin and Charlie are the results of both situations. Dean blamed himself for Kevin and now Sam blames himself for Charlie.

I loved the montage of memories Dean had of Charlie at the pyre.
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Jen
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njspnfan wrote:

Is Dean under the influence of the Mark?

Yes but part of it is also Dean being Dean; he hasn't been terribly likeable, downright dickish at times during The Carver era. I did laugh out loud when Eldon Styne started rolling up his sleeves to fight Dean, and Dean shoots him in the head. And I guess him killing the tiniest Styne was to indicate that he finally crossed a line? That was telegraphed.

What will Crowley do now that he knows his mother tried to assassinate him?

No surprise that Sam couldn't kill Crowley but did manage to piss him off enough to have him go full on evil again. Crowley was a crossroads demon so I always thought he had red demon eyes but there was something different about them - will have to watch again. Rowena is now able to read the BOTD so I'm sure she'll be double crossing everyone in the last episode, and wreaking havoc. Way to go, Sam; it's Season 4 all over again.

How far will Sam go to save Dean?

A few weeks ago I mentioned I didn't like where things were headed. Sam is coming across as whiny and desperate but at least The Carver has been consistent in presenting him as an incompetent and incapable, but "mature", hunter. Geez... you'd think some lessons would have been learned along the way but this must be what the majority of fans like so I guess not. And, for the record, Sam won't end up saving Dean; I said at the start of the season - as long as Carver is running the show, Sam will never be given what would be considered a "big win".

Is this the end of the Frankensteins?

Probably; What a wasted opportunity, kind of like the Mother of All in S6.

And what exactly is Castiel anyway? He couldn't angel flick or otherwise stop Dean? Didn't make much sense. We know Dean has uber strength now but they're all over the map on this one. And Castiel was able to restrain Demon Dean at the start of S10 when he had stolen grace.

Some of us called the fact that the MoL bunker would be compromised this week so hurray for us. So much for the bunker being warded/protected; I guess Sam and Dean upgraded the entrance and installed sliding glass doors with motion detectors. Part of me was wishing they would have destroyed the bunker and turned this back in to road show.

This episode was okay but I'll reserve final judgment till I see what happens next week.


Speculative stuff for next week -

So it looks like Death is back so Dean will be able to save himself with Death's help. Kind of a cheap out, like Sam's "fix" in The Born Again Identity, but I'll wait and see where they go with this. Whatever happens, I'm sure it will require a sacrifice on Dean's part; just wondering what Death would want; since Sam and Dean have disrupted the natural order on a global scale, perhaps part of Death removing the mark will either be Dean reaping Sam, or Death changing things so Sam and Dean are no longer brothers and therefore can no longer disrupt the natural order?
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NOLANOLA
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Crowley's eyes were RED when he possessed Mrs. Tran.
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Duren
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OKAY, the 'EVIL DEAD' reference was blatant this time! :)
Ashly J. Williams?! I mean, when he said, "Call me Ash," I followed it up with, "Name's Ash. Housewares." ;)

And so I ask: is this the double barrel on the mantel of a fireplace found in a certain cabin in the woods, or is someone just poking fun at the fact an appendage is acting as a vessel for evil/possession? I mean, seriously . . . there is evil residing in his arm like there was evil residing in Ash's hand. For all intents and purposes, you COULD call him "Ash."

If they don't resolve this by whacking off that arm . . . I mean, the Frankenstein thing is the PERFECT setup to cut off his arm and replace it with another. Sam's guilt is also the perfect setup for "big sacrifice" in "giving his right arm for his brother." I mean, COME ON!!!! If this doesn't happen it's SUCH a seriously missed opportunity! My gawd, they could even use my awful puns here! ARGH!! And the JOKES this would set up for next season! The innuendo about "not wanting to know where this hand has been" and the like! XD

Also, Lemmy Kilmister's name was thrown in there, along with a Motorhead album! Since the Ace of Spades is commonly (mis)represented as the "death" card . . . the song "Ace of Spades" needs to hit this soundtrack! "That's the way I like it baby; I don't wanna live forevah!" \m/ >.< \m/

Other than that . .
Charlie's death was still bogus as all hell. (Maybe Death could remedy this. If not, SPN death is kinda like comic book death . . .)
Dean is MOSTLY under the influence of the Mark. Without the Mark he never would've capped the kid; wouldn't have even held the gun on him. However, he would have wasted Castiel if he were all the way gone.
Sam, like I said, would give his right arm for Dean . . . or his life, or whatever. I still think his arm would be so much fun!!
Castiel pulled any and all punches.
Rowena's hex bag was intended to bring back Crowley's inner monster, but she'll likely die as a side effect. She'll be lucky to make it out as a hamster. (In the vein of my Motorhead comment, since we got an Ozzy mention could we PLEASE have "Mr. Crowley" as an entrance theme for this showdown?!)

Okay, I hope I lightened things up a bit . . . ;) \m/
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Russ
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I've watched this episode about 8 times now ... and I still can't separate the good from the bad.

This episode had the unfortunate duty of being the penultimate episode. After such a hackneyed hodgepodge season, it had no other fate than a contrived narrative.

It sucked. Had there not been the need to cure Demon Dean for the fan-pandering 200th episode, this, in essence, should have been the mid-season finale.

Charlie's death was inevitable, but ultimately a waste.

Also ... the music sucked.
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Russ
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Haha, I just watched this again ... so, the super secret MoL bunker, warded against anything and everything supernatural; that nobody can find; that has a special key to unlock the door - which I would assume means the door and it's locking mechanism is quite complex and probably reinforced and kinda force resistant - can apparently just be kicked open? OK, so the Styne dude has 3 hearts, 2 spleens, and 7 nipples ... did the MoL not think that maybe an Alpha or somethin'-a-rather had the physical prowess to kick open a door?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/rookskickz/supernatural/deanetf.gif~original


Give me a C,
Give me an A,
Give me an R,
Give me a V,
Give me an E,
Give me an R.

What does it spell?

SHIT!
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Russ
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One thing I did like about this episode ...

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/rookskickz/supernatural/spn-10.22-a.gif~original


Gorgeous shot.

Jared was fantastic during the pyre scene.
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