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  1. cheryl42
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Dean told Sam in the promo that he had no right to feel sorry for Charlie's death. Is Dean right? So how much can Sam be held responsible? Is this the same as Kevin?
Sam told Charlie every step of his plan. He never lied and he didn't withhold any information. Yes he begged and used every form of manipulation he could think of but he also brought Cas in for protection. Dean kept Kevin in the dark about the potential danger in the bunker. The only life Dean thought was in danger was Sam. He couldn't have guessed that Kevin was a target. Are either to blame for the innocents that get lost in their quest to save each other or is it Winchester Business as usual. Anyone have an opinion?
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Russ
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I just read something that's probably been missed in all the Charlie-death hoopla.

This forum needs spoiler tags :D
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Jen
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No Sam isn't to blame Charlie knew better - she only thought she was safe because she didn't carry the bk The Steins wanted her anyway and I believe she would have been killed eventually
I think Charlie was the sacrifice that had to be made and Charlie read this when she deciphered the BOTD


There is a interesting read on SheKnows.com SPOILER,SPOILER. and could be what Russ is talking about. and International Business Times
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Russ
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Assume this entire post a spoiler for the season's penultimate (ep 22) and finale (ep 23).


SPOILER!!!!!

Mine is more of an unwitting spoiler via factoid, but I was looking at the filming dates for each episode. I was trying to deduce whether or not the Styne's were a late addition due to the show being renewed for S11, thus Carver & Co. feeling the need to introduce a new "big bad". The timeline fits and could explain why they weren't sprinkled throughout the first half of the season.

Anyhoo, the listing makes mention (which is confirmed via crew tweets, and a Jensen interview at a con), that the season 10 finale (episode 23), was filmed before episode 22, because of Felicia Day's busy schedule.

So Charlie will be back - to what extent? No idea. Also don't know which episode.

Was she busy when they wanted so shoot episode 22, so they pushed it back?; or is she in the finale, but was too busy at the later date, so they moved 23 forward?

Me no clue.

END SPOILER!!!!!


Sorry if I ruined your day, but I'm actually not because I don't care :D

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/rookskickz/Humour/batman-Haters_gonna_hate.jpg~original
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Jen
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Well that might fit in with the - what we think is Charlie sighting on the video for Ep 22 ?! Plot thinkens. Love the take on Donna LOL - Anyhoo
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njspnfan
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I do think Sam should share some of the blame for Charlie's death - he pulled her back in in the first place. However, the show "softened" this by presenting Charlie as a very competent hunter his season, at least until she faced Stumpy Styne. And yes, it is certainly possible that the Stynes would have found her anyway. As far as the show's narrative, Sam is going to definitely feel guilty and take the blame, and Dean will also lambast and blame him endlessly because that's just the way the show rolls now.

One thing in the preview puzzled me, though. Dean told Sam to shut up, that he got her killed in the first place and doesn't get to apologize. Then, in the next sentence, he said he's going to go after whoever did this, and rip apart everything and everyone they ever loved. Since Dean holds Sam responsible, will he also go after him and Castiel?
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Jen
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I was wondering - we are assumimg the burning body is the opening scene in Ep22 - what if its not ???????? what if its later
njspnfan I agree the look on Dean's face is scarey & determined ( so sad ) I agree I think Cas & Dean are in big trouble. I believe they try to lock Dean out of the bunker he manages to kick the front door down and confronts them both - maybe they over power him and lock him down ?? Dean then would be their prisoner and earlier Stein's prisoner
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sugarhi15
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The answer to your question Cheryl is NO. :D It's really not that much of a quandry imho...the only one to blame for charlie's "death" is eldon styne. He killed her. Show blatantly made it clear at the very beginning of the episode that jacob's murder and the loss of the book must be avenged or eldon would lose his place as heir. Sam, Dean and Charlie were targets. Whether or not she had the book made no difference whatsoever....she found the book in the first place and they knew that ..they were seeking the book and thus discovered charlie because the compass went off ...noone knew the book couldn't be destroyed except the stynes...so burning the book meant nothing as it couldn't be burned...and dean wouldn't give the book to the stynes knowing what they were about, so even if dean knew the book couldn't be burned, he wouldn't have handed it over.

if you think about it, sam bringing charlie to cas was actually more of a benefit to her, because she wasn't alone. She had the protection of an angel and where she was ended up being the safest place for her...because out on her own left her vulnerable...because as i said, she was targeted whether she had the book or not. The reason charlie was left vulnerable once again was because she left the protection of the safehouse she was in, and she left the angel who would keep her safe.

but to blame the death of charlie on her or sam or even dean is a ridiculous notion to me. charlie was killed because unfortunately in the spn world as much as the real world, there's evil....and bad things happen to good people, especially to good people who try to rid this world of some of that evil.

the death of charlie is more meaningful than the unproven hypothesis that show just likes to kill strong women..charlie as with all the women on this show are more deserving than that.

charlie's death was necessary to push moc dean over the edge and advance the story hopefully to it's nearing conclusion.
her death also pushes sam to fight rather than give up. ( i think her email will give him back his will to ensure that charlie didn't die in vain) this ties in with jared and jensen's always keep fighing campaign.
she also represents what's been the mantra of the season....we are stronger together than alone. charlie went off on her own, fell to her old pattern of being a loner and the end result of that act was her death. staying with her winchester family, which includes cas, she was protected and thus less vulnerable.
really charlie represents "our love" for the boys. she like the other's before her are a reminder to sam and dean that they are not alone in this fight. they don't only have ea. other...that there are family and friends who love them and see worth in them....and do for them for no other reason than you do what you can for the people you love.

what sam and dean have to come to realize, and hopefully charlie's death will eventually do this, is that they just have to accept that people love them. They're going to do whatever they feel necessary to help these boys when they need help.....sam and dean just have to come to terms with the fact that they are loved .....

and what they need to do is stop taking the blame for other's love and instead respect it by doing what they do and doing it together.....;)
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anonymousN
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No. No.
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Sharon
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After watching Jeremys proudcer preview and the line Dean says in it then yes I would say that Dean certainly believes Sam is to blame in fact to a very horrible degree.
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Gwen
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I just watched the Producer's Preview and the line Dean says to Sam is just brutal. As Sharon says it doesn't seem to leave much doubt as to where Dean is laying blame.

As for my opinion, that would be No, Sam is not to blame.
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Jen
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Maybe a spoiler SPOILER ALERT SPOILER !!!

Latest chatter is Dean & Sam fisty fight, Dean kills Sam - then Dean does some sort of deal with Death !!?? OMG what a mess
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Jen
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Why Charlie or Sam I honestly thought Dean would choose his brother. OHH LORDY LORDY I GOT A HEADACHE :( :( :(
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I will be pissed if Dean kills Sam but then gets a do-over from Death. Especially if the repercussion is that Dean must nobly sacrifice something in return for this. And then next Season the plot is Sam must save Dean from the consequences of his self-sacrifice. I really hope you're wrong about this Jen.
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Jo1027
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In a word...NO!
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Sylvie
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I don't think Sam is responsible for Charlie's death. She was in the game and she knew the dangers. She was the one who took off on her own knowing full well the Stynes could find her. Am I pissed that she's dead, now that would be a resounding yes! As for Dean being responsible for Kevin's death, I guess he is a little bit in a roundabout way. Yes, he should have told Kevin about the dangers and about Sam being possessed by Gadriel, but ultimately, unless one of these boys is actually the one pulling the trigger, neither is responsible.
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njspnfan
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Hey - just had a thought; didn't Dean get Charlie killed in Slumber Party, only to have Zeke/Gadreel resurrect her? How quickly we forget. :D :D :D
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Aslansown
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That's the thing about Free Will: how can someone claim that free will is so important but, whenever a loved one makes a choice that has bad consequences, immediately decide that they themselves (or someone else like Dean blaming Sam in this case) are responsible instead of accepting that Charlie made the choice to leave the safety of the underground rooms with an angel for a cheap motel room. Really foolish move. I'm sure Rowena was driving her insane, but Castiel was putting Rowena in a different room to give Charlie some space. WHY did she leave? (All that said, I do not blame Charlie for her own death; that's on the head -- or the hands -- of the Styne family.)
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