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  3. Wednesday, 18 March 2015
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This is something that's actually been raised by writer P.S. Griffin over at our sister site, TV For The Rest of Us, in her recent Supernatural reviews. We know that Sam won't stop researching about the MOC and helping Dean based on the episode descriptions. But P.S.' theory is Sam will start adopting witchcraft, especially after seeing the MOC go away when Dean was changed to a 14 year old in "About a Boy."

Do you think the writers would go there? Take a page from Buffy and do a "Dark Willow" storyline for Sam? Will this be like the intended story for season three, where Sam saves Dean but at the cost of his own descent into extreme darkness? Do you like the idea of Sam trying dark spells and becoming very powerful with magic?

I'm not sure how I feel. I love the idea of Sam going darkside, but would that be a case of Rinse, Lather, Repeat? I wonder if this carries on with Carver's question of who is the real monster. As long as it's not lame like Lester, I might be on board for this.
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Dion7
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I like the idea of Sam going darkside to save Dean. The only thing about that that worries me is Dean's reaction. If you look at past seasons, Dean usually gets to explain and justify his actions in a way that Sam doesn't. Every time Sam goes pretty far to save Dean it is held against him. This isn't really because Dean is a bad person, but I think it's mostly because the series is from Dean's perspective, so we see his reasoning more than Sam's.
I think the same would happen here: Sam saves Dean, but instead of recognizing it as the sacrifice it is, Dean will hold it against him.

As far as the discussion about a partnership between Sam and Rowena here goes, I suppose last episode might have shown a possibility there. Rowena apparently needs to access the Men of Letters bunkers, which she can't break into herself. Maybe that's where Sam comes in.
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eilf
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Jen
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Lots of open ended answers from many many other episodes. If the writers were interested they should go back & look at other earlier episodes. We could always come to AUSTRALIA and look for the young boy - (anti christ )5.06 I Believe the Children Are Our Future He may have some answers for us. Next weeks ep they are going to a church ask the priest if there is away to get rid of the mark. But I can see a pattern as well its Sam thats gonna pay the price.

I am worried though ladies - if all we discuss is true and the writing is becoming lazy - and they are loosing interest maybe S11 will be the end. No matter what J2s wont or us the fans - maybe we are seeing the end of Supernatural drag it through another season and end it. I wish they would at least take it out the way it started on a very HIGH note :( :(
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lisa
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What if what sam does has nothing to do with witchcraft? What if metatron gives him a solution that involves Lucifer either freeing him or communicating with him in some way? I bet the steps he would have to take involve some darkness or deals(probably both) and would not make dean happy. He would probably be willing to die than risk ever freeing the being who nearly destroyed the planet and brother. As such he would be pissed at sam for attempting to remove the mark with Lucifer's help.
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I had thought of the possibility of Sam working with Rowena, but what could he offer her in return for her help? And yes, if Sam started using witchcraft and became too powerful, it would introduce the Cas quandary of what to do with a too-powerful character. But even in the Kripke years they conveniently forgot about some of Sam's powers and never referred to them again. Even if the current writers would botch it, I love the idea of Sam as a witch (a good witch, of course, like James). There are terrific possibilities for that story which could give Sam a chance to shine. That, of course, is why we will never see that story happen.
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njspnfan
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E - you should have included SPOILER ALERT in your comments; you gave away the ending !!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D
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E
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Well, Sam delving into witchcraft to save Dean COULD be very interesting. But given the formula they are currently following we won't really know what Sam's been up to until the last few minutes of episode 23. Then in season 11, the only focus we'll get on what Sam did was how Dean responds to it as he lambasts Sam with details of the things he did, but that we never saw. Then Dean will call Sam a monster and contemplate killing him. The End.
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Jen
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I think the best we can hope for in S10 is Sam will show up in an episode dressed in a long black witches outfit, with a long pointy hat, a broomstick and cauldron. That's about as subtle or creative as it gets this season.

I know this is a serious discussion but - ThankYou so much for the biggest belly laugh, drooling the works for a long time The picture I got from this one line was hillarious Thanks HAHAHAHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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cheryl42
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That is an interesting theory and one I hadn't thought of until the witch and Hansel. I didn't think of Sam really but Rowena. Maybe at some point Sam while delving into all possible avenues to find a cure (and with the Book of the Damned looming out there) somehow ends up in a partnership with Rowena? Carver did say that witches would play a big role this season. I'm not good at speculating but I do like the possibilities.
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Sharon
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Well they certainly do not know what else to do with him , and I can see Jeremy taking a leaf out of the storytelling in season 4 to tell this story. If Sam can emerge out of season 9 still as the 'brother in the wrong' then it does not tell me that Sam would emerge from a sl like this with alot of sympathy.
The show will not really go there with Dean they have tip-toed around the demon dean/moc/sl like frightened rabbits but I do not think a sl like this would prove to be such a obstacle because it would be Sam.
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Wow do I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, the Sam fan inside me is screaming "YES! Give him a story, any kind of story, as long as he's smart and sympathetic and characteristically Sam as the plot unfolds!" On the other hand, there's almost no freaking way that this current crop of writers will execute the plot that way. They have shown almost zero interest in writing Sam at all, much less sympathetically and in character. Eilf, I think there is a way they COULD write this story that would be palatable to Sam fans. I agree with Jen that the brothers have actually used spells in a number of episodes. Most recently, they used one to turn Dean into a dog and Dean was totally on board with that. But do all spells equal witchcraft? That's not clear, and we do know that Dean hates witches. He was ready to snuff their friend James for being a witch. But maybe the brothers' willingness to use witchcraft depends on what kind of witch Sam would be. Rowena explained the different types to the hookers and my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think there were three types. 1. the rarest, most powerful type, like Rowena, has inborn powers. 2. the next type acquires her powers from demons, as in Malleus Maleficarum and other episodes (and if they have Sam go down that road I swear I will smash my TV. It would be a complete re-tread of season 4, and there's no way Sam would ever go down that road again). 3. I think the 3rd type can learn some spells, but will not be very powerful. Assuming my memory is correct, the only type Sam could/would be is the 3rd type. So I don't see how he would be powerful enough to get rid of the MOC. But if the plot is for him to dabble in witchcraft as a type 3, it might be an interesting story. Since they have used spells before, Dean can't get too up in arms without being a complete hypocrite. And if we get to see Sam's really smart thought processes and caution as he goes down this road, and if Dean is, however grudgingly, on board with it, it could be a great story. Unlike many fans, I liked Season 4 less than most of the earlier seasons because they never showed when and why Sam first decided to drink demon blood. How did Ruby ever convince him? It had to be an enormous decision for him, since it went against everything he believed and stood for, but they never really explained it. I think they wanted to have the big reveal, so they couldn't show it in real time, but they could have done so via flashbacks, and I think they owed the character that. It would have made Sam more sympathetic. So if those excellent, Sam-friendly writers didn't think it was important enough to show onscreen, there's no way these writers will do so. Also, the fact that they have Sam hiding his research strongly suggests that, if they are going the witchcraft route, they will portray Sam in a bad light and it will lead to a brotherly rift because, even though Sam has NEVER called Dean out for taking on the MOC, it's time to make Sam the bad brother again and for Dean to reclaim his halo. Not that Dean has truly lost his halo because apparently it wasn't such a stupid thing he did taking on the MOC (at least nobody has ever gotten angry at him about it) and he was the most inoffensive demon we've ever seen on the show. So, really long story short, it COULD be a great story, but there's only a microscopic chance that it would unfold in a way that shows Sam in a good light.
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eilf
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Words fail me on how much I hate the thought that they might do that (they might unfail me later). After spending 2 solid seasons working up to Dark!Dean and then totally failing to go there. Totally. Such a wimp-out. Making him a demon who is just DeanX2 and is totally still the (only) sympathetically interpreted character on the show. While all the time making Sam look like a villain for standing up for himself and trying to do the right thing.

And more to the point never having given Sam the chance to have the proactive there-for-his-brother storyline. I mean he HAS been there and hasn't judged, hasn't told Dean he is a monster, hasn't given up. But it has all been done so far in the background and so wordlessly that a lot of commentary and review have missed it completely. I guarantee if Sam goes 'dark' the commentary will go 'Sam didn't try to rescue Dean when he was in Purgatory and now he is doing the wrong thing to save him, Dean wouldn't want this' and everything that had gotten us from that point to this will be judged as 'stuff Sam didn't do'.

Then to go back to Sam is the bad-guy for doing dark things to save Dean. Which Dean will give him all the grief for that Sam hasn't said one single word to Dean about over the MOC?

Yes I can see how that could easily happen with this writing team, and I can see how it might appeal to some viewers and commentators, but if they do go with that storyline I will no longer be one of them.

ETA: I keep coming back to this thinking maybe I should tone down my response to what is basically a theory about a storyline on a tv show, but I find I can't. I could totally see it happening and it just is absolutely not fair that they should do this. Not a bit. At this stage if the writers were even self-aware enough to have someone say to Sam - 'wow does it suck to be you' that would make me feel a bit better, like they were aware that they have invented an entire universe dedicated to torturing one character. I understand if other people would like to see this storyline, and I will try not to respond on this thread any further.
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ThisOldBag
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This might be where they are heading and if so, I can only hope it is written well. It could explain why there has been so little Sam POV but the build up has been sad so far. If there is nothing unique about dark-Sam then it will just be a repeat. I am not comfortable with Carver's story telling so this does give me pause. This may be the part that will be "stretched" to next season, which will be too bad.
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njspnfan
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The writers may go there, and I had speculated along the same lines in earlier S10 comments. But, as with all things Sam in S8/9/S10, it will come completely out of left field with absolutely no context, logic, or build up provided by the writers. I recently DVR'd and re-watched a good portion of S4 on TNT and was struck by how much better the writing, pacing and storyline were developed. In season 4, you knew Sam was up to something with Ruby. Most of this played out in the background and, when he find out he's been drinking demon blood and that's why his powers had been growing stronger, it all clicked and made sense. I'm most definitely not a writer but that always struck me as a great example of how to play out a story in the background. I think the best we can hope for in S10 is Sam will show up in an episode dressed in a long black witches outfit, with a long pointy hat, a broomstick and cauldron. That's about as subtle or creative as it gets this season.
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Jen
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WOW I love this Alice at last a possible out come Could be another reason why Sam has been hiding his research from Dean. They have used spells for various reasons in their hunting activities and Bobby used spells often also their Police Officer friend ( Man's Best Friend With Benefits 15/S8.) was a witch.

And SPN did say they were going to explore more on witch craft this season, Metatron (Blahh) used witchcraft to clean out heaven. OHHHH I's getting excited love this idea.
Who says witch craft has to be bad maybe its a once off thing to help Dean

Surly this could be the answer behind Sam seeming to have another bad run this season sneaky keep he quiet then BANG this is what Sam's been up to ?! - there is still time, - maybe - hopefully - Pray to Castiel (again LOL ) and all our prayers will be answered YIPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Jen

PS Done correctly it wouldn't be a Rinse, Lather. Repeat Again Faith in the writers ???????!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D
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