Transport trucks. Hell hounds. Falling angels. Leviathan. As far as finales go, Supernatural has done them every way imaginable and usually manages to leave the audience hanging on the edge. "Brother’s Keeper" certainly had some edge, but as finales go – was it on par with what we’re used to overall?

"Brother’s Keeper" definitely had all the elements of a finale: it addressed all loose hanging threads and the major plot of the season and of course left with a major cliff hanger to gear up for next season, yet somehow it felt lackluster overall.

Angels and Demons

BK 5
Castiel is left in charge of Rowena’s spell casting and recruits Crowley to gather the three ingredients: a piece of the golden calf, the apple from the Garden and someone Rowena loves. This plot took up a fair part of the episode but offered little dramatic input to the story, in my opinion. Castiel’s recruiting of Crowley was incredibly lackluster and so simple. I expected more payoff from this storyline – a betrayal by Crowley (in particular after the striking showing last week from our King of Hell) or at the very least something beyond the small display in the café and presenting of the Immortal to Rowena (more on this later).

The role of both Castiel and Crowley in the finale was minor, given the power and prominence of these characters overall. Furthermore, speaking to the spell itself – the hunt for the ingredients was treated with a few sentences. In the past we’ve featured the boys chasing down necessary elements to prevent apocalyptic events with great excitement developing in the story as a result. Thus, because of the very limited use of both Castiel and Crowley and the one-line solution to the so-called hard-to-get spell ingredients, this all seems like a lost opportunity to use for both character use and some plot elements as a result.

Rowena: Superwitch

BK 16
Our all-powerful centerpiece, connecting all of our characters, managed a very last minute and unexpected (?) betrayal/escape with the Book and Codex, leaving Crowley defending against Castiel, amped up on Rowena’s favourite mad-dog enchantment.

BK 17
So, here is where the issues begin. I’m not clear if we were supposed to feel sorry about Rowena killing the boy – there was not enough time to know him or come to understand his relationship with her. She’s evil, that much has been clear from the jump ergo her choice to sacrifice him for her own freedom was neither unexpected or really that horrifying, given who she is and how long we’ve known this character. This backstory about Rowena’s relationship to the Polish family and her inability to love, etc. was an incredible amount of filler – and while Rowena’s wit opposite Castiel, Sam or Crowley has its charm on occasion the story I’m most interested in at this juncture is Sam, Dean and the Mark of Cain.

BK 13
Finally, why was Crowley so surprised by what took place in the end? Truthfully I’d been waiting for Rowena to use the Book to her advantage for a while now and we know she’s an old and powerful witch. What was shocking about what happened, exactly?

Dean the Hunter: Blunt and Indiscrete

BK 1
Once again, both boys turned in an incredible performance for the finale. Starting with Jensen, we had a totally unrecognizable Dean throughout the majority of this episode. We started off with what appeared to be the aftermath of a bender- perhaps to stave off memories of beating Cas to a bloody pulp – and next we see Dean standing over the body of a young girl killed by vampires. Except this isn’t the Dean Winchester we know and love, punning and commenting while digging for information with the local law enforcement – instead he’s “noticing” the apparel of our young victim and it’s whorish style. So on so forth. Dean can’t even play nice with fellow hunter Rudy when he arrives, telling him instead to go away because he’s just going to get himself killed.

BK 2
This Dean, aggressive and candid to the point of offence, displays parallels to when we last saw Cain. He demonstrates a sense for “sin” and makes references to knowledge of the dark secrets in the deceased girl's house when he visits (and dramatizes for life, no doubt) her parents. Finally, he tracks the vampires down and ultimately, though he frees the kidnappee, does it with no finesse, no regard for getting Rudy killed by taunting the vampire to stab the other hunter and no concern for the girl after the vampires are dead. Nope, not the Dean we know. But oh so fun to watch this dark change of pace.

BK 7
Understanding, perhaps like Cain did eventually, that he is too dark, Dean summons Death (played again by the chillingly talented Julian Richlings) after preparing a spread of deep-fried delights for his honour. And this is where it starts to get really interesting. Finally, somebody ups the ante on the vague notion of “consequences” of removing the Mark that’s been tossed about for weeks by having Death explain it’s in fact a lock to keep an ancient evil – The Darkness – at bay and out of the world as we know it. It’s an intriguing concept, for sure and I’m curious as to where this will be taken when given more exploration next season.

Death, of course, can’t kill Dean or remove the Mark – but he can lock Dean away where he can’t hurt anybody. With one caveat: Sam’s life. And this is how we know Dean is beyond messed up: he agrees.

Sam: The Saviour

BK 4
Jared has played this particularly well the last few episodes: the building stress, the quiet anxiety – and this episode was no exception. Throughout the show Sam’s building anxiousness was palpable as he kept falling one step behind his brother, when Rudy contacted him and finally when he discovers the unsettling note leaving ownership of the Impala to him. He knew, piece by piece, his brother was being swallowed by the Mark but Sam couldn’t allow himself to give up.

BK 9BK 11

The exchange between the boys in the restaurant was incredible – one of my favourite scenes. In so many ways it called back to Swan Song for me. Sam is on his knees, beat up, and though he says to Dean he will surrender, he tells his brother he knows he is a good man. Sam staring up at Dean,  looking all the part of a little brother calling to his big brother, tearful eyes with nothing but forgiveness and love, handing over the photos of their young family, so that someday in the future Dean can find his way back – such a great moment. And it works, too. Dean overcame the power of the Mark in the moment just as Sam did way back in the cemetery. These boys have a connection to each other – plain and simple.

Death and Darkness

BK 12
So Death is dead? Somehow I doubt this will stick. I expected, if that were truly the case that Rowena’s favourite not-son would rise again. But he didn’t and obviously Death is too awesome to truly fall. But, that’s the second time the Winchesters have betrayed him, so I don’t think pizza and taquitos will cut it next time you meet, guys.  It wasn’t unexpected, because Dean wasn’t going to kill Sam but Dean slicing through Death wasn’t quite what I thought was going to happen either – nor was Death crumbling to ash. So, interesting twist.

BK 15
The Mark is gone! Anyone else feel like a parade? Sure, we had some good times, but it definitely overstayed. The lightening strike and spell though, again I have to say felt a bit lackluster over all. I can’t say what I was expecting – but for all the build up in the translation and the Book and the costs to get there, the spell and tiny fireworks of the removal itself seemed more an afterthought to this story. That said, the lock is open so bring on the Darkness. Quite the note to leave us hanging on: five months is a lot of suspense to hold!

Final Thoughts

BK 18
As finales go, the course of the episode was missing the build up through most of it. There was no deadline tension for the spell ingredients, no imminent betrayal to be discovered, even between Sam and Dean – while dramatically good, was only in the later points of the episode and didn’t create quite the intensity and nervous action-drama of past finales. The acting was excellent, as usual and the visuals offered here were the perfect tone for the episode overall. Overall, I enjoyed the episode, it had its flaws yes but the pieces that were good, were really good. The brother parts are the best points to the finales and this had some fine ones. And the end, featuring Sam and Dean, was fantastic - especially that final ominous fade away we were left with. Where will The Darkness story go? It’s got some serious potential for epic villains and interesting plots for season 11. Any theories?

Your thoughts on the season 10 finale? And, is Death dead?


# AlyCat22 2015-05-28 14:32
I don't think we've seen the last of the MOC. I wouldn't be surprised if Dean, knowing all he does now and as he was chosen by Cain, ends up ultimately voluntarily accepting it once more. They hardly did justice to the MOC storyline and the way it was drug out and as inconsistently as it was written was definitely a problem. I think part of it was intentional, as in that is how the MOC was subtly affecting Dean and as Jensen portrayed it but then a greater part of it was crappy writing from the bullpen. Now that Glass has bailed, and really it seemed like he had one foot out the Supernatural door for sometime now, maybe they will replace him with a strong writer who gets it. We can only hope and prayer circle. Oh yeah, that and he takes Bob Singer with him.
# cheryl42 2015-05-28 15:18
I hope the MOC on Dean is gone forever. No more supernaturally influenced brothers. Just Sam and Dean against whatever evil they are facing...togeth er, united, human. Adam Glass wasn't the problem with the season. The pacing was the problem. I don't see the show replacing him either. I will bet the other writers will take up the slack. Glass only wrote 2 episodes last season so that shouldn't be much of a problem. If Bob Singer goes then I'll bet that will be the end of the show for everyone. So be careful what you wish for.
# AlyCat22 2015-05-29 02:39
Bob Singer had stated himself his plans to leave the show not long ago. It would survive without him. If Thompson gets head writer Id expect pretty much more of the same. Im not confident that much of the remaining creative writing staff can handle The Darkness as a solid storyline, especially when cohesiveness was a big problem for Season 10. And thats not even touching on the pacing issues. I cant help but have visions of a repeat of the big scary Leviathans or the angels that fell. Werent we promised game changing on those as well? Yeah, not so much.
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-29 09:38
ALY, you don't think Robbie would be a good head writer.....
# cheryl42 2015-05-29 10:02
Yeah I heard those same rumors about Singer but nothing was ever confirmed. I think if the pilot had worked and S10 was the last season then yes he may have retired. Why Robbie and not Dabb or Eugenie? We don't know anything yet. I imagine by SDCC there will be more announcements from the show. Maybe having the head writer bowing out in the middle of S10 had an affect on the season pacing and so on. I'm not one to see the sky falling until it starts to fall.
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-29 10:22
CHERYL, who was the head writer that bowed out in season 10
# cheryl42 2015-05-29 12:43
Adam Glass
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-29 12:53
Did not know he was HEAD writer. thx
# E 2015-05-29 10:05
If the choosing of a head writer comes from seniority (and who knows if it does) then it should go to Andrew Dabb I believe. Robbie Thompson hasn't earned his stripes so to speak, even Jenny Klein has been there longer than him. If it comes to writing chops is certainly should be Robert Berens, the only writer on staff that truly seems to grasp what this show is about and it's unique tone, and that includes Jeremy Carver. But he's the newest so does he even have a chance? Does being head writer mean that you are more involved in plotting and pacing, canon and consistency as a kind of right-hand-man/ woman to the show runner? If so, then clearly it should be Berens, he's the only really talented writer they have at the moment. Dabb though has proven that he can really come through in the clutch (Road Trip, Richenback, Inside Man), but he's inconsistent sometimes (Clip Show, The Things We Left Behind) and misses big sometimes too (Bloodlines). My vote is for Berens. I wonder if I'll be consulted?
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-28 16:02
I hope the MOC on Dean is gone forever. No more supernaturally influenced brothers. Just Sam and Dean against whatever evil they are facing...together, united, human.

Amen to that Cheryl. IMO the MOC was the most boring, drawn-out, poorly executed story in the history of the show.
# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-29 08:11
Double amen to that.
# E 2015-05-29 09:26
Agreed as well. Sorry Alycat... the MoC needs to stay gone forever. The whole concept has been a retread. We had to watch Dean turn into a demon in season 9 and then watch him turn into whatever he was in season 10 which was basically the same thing only without the black eyes. If Dean ends up having to take the MoC back again at the end of season 11 it will be a retread of a retread. No, that storyline needs to be gone forever.... a distant and unpleasant memory that leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
# njspnfan 2015-05-29 09:56
Agreed... I thought it had lots of potential but they chose to play it very safe which made the storyline mundane and predictable. Did anyone think for a minute that Dean was going to kill Sam? The showrunners are on autopilot and wouldn't dare take that kind of chance.
# njspnfan 2015-05-29 09:59
now if they wanted to have fun in Season 11, have BOTH of the brothers go dark, then have Crowley and Castiel team up to try to stop them.
# NOLANOLA 2015-05-29 10:18
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-29 10:40
Call me a fool or a sucker, but up until Dean said "close your eyes" I actually thought they might go there. It never occurred to me that Dean would skewer Death instead. I was just so caught up in the emotional aspect of that scene that for once I wasn't analyzing it or trying to figure out where it was going. And that is why I love Carver's writing. When he is at the top of his game, he is so fantastic at depicting the heart of the show- the brothers and their relationship- that I forget about everything else. Think Mystery Spot, or A very Supernatural Xmas, or Sacrifice, to name a few. Yes, he has sucked as a show runner, but his writing IMO has been outstanding, with just a couple of exceptions.
# E 2015-05-29 11:10
Nope. I never once even assumed that Dean would either kill Sam or Cas; it was simply never going to happen. And since the writers were sooooooo careful to make sure Dean's every action always looked justified (even the mean things he says about the dead girl were mitigated by her awful and abusive family) I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that they'd NEVER go there. It's kind of ironic; the writers always claim that they go where the story takes them. Well, the story demanded that Dean was an unstoppable force, a killing machine, laying waste to everything in his path. It was the only way to create any believable tension for the MoC story to work and to lay the groundwork that Sam and/or Cas could ever be in any kind of real danger. But did the writers write what the story demanded, where the story was so clearly taking them? nope. They set up the parallel between Cain and Dean then didn't follow through. They tiptoed around and planted "justifiable" kills into the narrative and had all the other character fret over how "bad" Dean was getting without ever actually going there. Maybe they thought we wouldn't notice? Maybe they were worried that their average 14 year old, twitter and tumbler loving fan would get upset by Dean's actions regardless of the fact that it was necessary? Did they ever consider that a mature, story driven, quality loving fan would actually rather see a story that worked, that was logical and well executed, even if that meant Dean would have to do some truly morally corrupt and possibly even vicious things? You can redeem pretty much any character for any act if the writing is good enough, if the remorse is real. The writers should never have given Dean the Mark in the first place because they must have known that they wouldn't go the necessary lengths with his character and therefore the story would be a failure. And it was..... a 35 episode failure. This arc tacked on to the wretched "not looking" fiasco of season 8 has made Carver's entire tenure as show runner and utter fail for me. Clearly has has a different concept for this show, one I don't appreciate nor am I enjoying. I predict season 11 to be more of same.
# eilf 2015-05-29 13:25
Ok so I know this is just looking at the logistics of a TV show but ... I was pretty certain they weren't going to have Dean kill Sam because of the scythe.

I mean look at the visual. Dean is going to lop off Sam's head? Really? You are going to have Sam's lopped off head rolling around the floor? No. There would go the last bit of gravitas the show has. The first cartoon making fun of that would have hit the internet before the episode ended. I mean ok, once Dean hit Death and you saw the effect was going to be dissolving to dust, then ok, maybe, but for me watching the scene I didn't believe Dean would do it.

I DO believe that both Sam and Dean believed he would do it, so the emotion of the scene was there. And it was amazingly well done and emotionally real there. Sam looking at the scythe with an expression that said 'that is a weapon and I am trained to avoid being hit by it' and then just resolutely looking away from it to his big brother as if his big brother wasn't the one holding the weapon. Oh! that little tip back of his head to look further up ... I may have watched that scene a few times now ... Jared's abilities are so wasted so much of the time on the show because they don't give him anything to do, but when they do! Yikes!

Dean looking at Sam and you can see the point where he starts to waver - it is when he says 'forgive me'. I suppose the understanding that he was about to do something basically unforgivable, that he certainly would not forgive himself for, was the thing that broke through. It is interesting that the 'forgive me' really isn't a question. It is more a sort of 'I want you to know that if I felt I could be forgiven for doing this I would have asked your forgiveness' And Sam understands that and gives his forgiveness anyway with just the tiniest little nod of the head. (I swear if the writing lived up to the truth the guys give these two characters the show WOULD be winning Emmys)

Anyway, if Dean had been holding something smaller - like the first blade, THEN I could have believed he would do it (or been unsure anyway), because it would be up close and personal, even a gun would put too much distance into the scene. The first blade for instance, if he were holding that then I would have been much more worried that he would do it. In the same way I was totally certain that they wouldn't try to cure the mark by cutting Dean's arm off. Even when the Slytherin guy was getting ready to 'operate' on Dean I don't think it was suggested (?) and it would have been at least a thing worth discussing wouldn't it?

I read a book about his screenplays by William Goldman (it is called 'What Lie Did I Tell?' - and it is fascinating I recommend it!) and in it he talks about some of his better known screenplays (he wrote Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Princess Bride, Maverick and Misery to name a few) and there is a really interesting piece about exactly how much physical damage you can do to your hero (this is regarding the most notorious scene from Misery - which was originally much worse than the scene they went with in the end), and what types, before it has an unintended effect on how the audience perceives that character.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-29 14:04
I DO believe that both Sam and Dean believed he would do it, so the emotion of the scene was there. And it was amazingly well done and emotionally real there.

That is essentially what I meant when I said that I was so emotionally involved in the scene that I wasn't thinking about anything else, or wondering if TPTB would really go there. The writing and the acting were pitch perfect. Your description of Sam's tilt of his head to look up at Dean, Dean's wavering look, and Sam's small nod and trace of a smile indicating his acceptance and forgiveness all at once- I literally (and embarrassingly) have watched that scene at least a dozen times because I was, and still am, so blown away by it. At its best, this show and those two actors can move me in a way that no other show ever has, and it is richly deserving of Emmys. And elsewhere on this site I made the same point as you did- why did the writers squander Jared's talents for the bulk of the season? When I am reminded of what he can do with great, challenging material, it actually pisses me off that many of the writers just don't seem that interested in writing for Sam.
# njspnfan 2015-05-29 15:16
Considering that half the writers wish they were Dean Winchester, and the other half want to sleep with him, that doesn't leave many allies for Sam Winchester in the writer's room :D:D:D:D
# eilf 2015-05-29 15:37
Never a truer word was spoken :(

I just listened to a podcast where a well known SPN fan / reviewer (though she is famous for rage-quitting the show a few years back) gripes about the show for 15 minutes and lists how Dean, Castiel and Crowley should all have had better roles this season. She goes through her issues with this TWICE - Dean, Castiel and Crowley - if there were another male character on the show I suppose she might have mentioned him at some point, acknowledged his existence, like ... but this - yes I am going to use the phrase because it is a real phenomenon - Sam-erasure is an ongoing issue with reviewers also.
# njspnfan 2015-05-29 15:48
just curious - which podcast? I listen to a couple of them from time to time.
# eilf 2015-05-29 16:31
I used listen to some of them but it is the same across the board so i decided to stop annoying myself :P this one is Ryan and Ryan. I knew she (Mo Ryan) used be a fan (apparently she still writes about it, I was under the impression she had quit for the most part) but I hadn't listened to their podcast before. just listened to it again and I guess in fairness she doesn't seem to like Dean either, or not the current incarnation of him. But at least she acknowledges his existence. It seems like she thinks that Castiel is the core mover-and-shake r of the characters. It is how her commentary comes across TBH (and if you read her review of the show after 200 episodes, I suspect you could call her a Cas fan ... )

I suppose this is a conversation that could grow legs so maybe we should move it to the discussion page if anyone else feels like adding their opinion to it?
# njspnfan 2015-05-29 16:36
great idea; do you want to do the honors, or should I?
# eilf 2015-05-29 16:51
heh on my 5th attempt I managed it. I tend to put the title in the 'search' instead of where it is supposed to go. if you don't like the angle of how I phrased it please feel free to change the emphasis :D
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 11:04
Maybe there are some writers who both want to be Dean AND want to sleep with him.
# eilf 2015-05-30 13:21
There's a worrying concept ....:o :)
# E 2015-05-29 21:23
No more rhyming now, I mean it!
Anybody want a peanut?
# eilf 2015-05-29 21:37
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 03:21
A peanut, no. But I'll take a pistachio... Sorry. Or how about... A peanut? I dunno man, how about you make it a pe-can... ;)
# cheryl42 2015-05-30 09:57
:D Best Movie Ever!!
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 11:02
Ok I give up. What are you all referring to?
# cheryl42 2015-05-30 11:58
:o The Princess Bride :o
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 12:09
I really like that movie but I don't remember that scene. Guess it's time for a re-watch.
# E 2015-05-30 14:28
Inconceivable!: D:D:D
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 17:14
OK THAT one I remember. And now the rhyming thing is coming back to me. It was said by the big guy whose name I forget but who was played by Andre the Giant, right?
# E 2015-05-30 23:24
Yes, Fezzic... good friends with "Hello! my name is Inigo Montoya. You keeel my father. Prepare to die!"

Most quotable movie ever.
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 21:00
Eh, I doubt you guys would be saying that if it had been Sams storyline. For all the MOC was a storyline, the amount of time actually devoted to it was sad at best. A lot of what we got to even show that it was affecting Dean came not from the storyline itself but from Jensen thru his subtle actions and the rest was mostly Sam saying how Deans getting worse and Cas concurring. Yeah, not so much. The best part of it was DemonDean who was then inexplicably dropped as if his storyline became an inconvenience only to be replaced by the MOC. Only not so much. So we sat and figured since we lost DemonDean surely, surely the MOC storyline will ramp up and... Only not so much. So then we get Cain and the amazing prophetic bucket list. Oh the possibilities!! ! Only not so much. So we are down to the wire, Dean goes off the rails because of something horrible that happens to Sam or Cas. Only not so much. Okay, Charlie. I can live with that. ANYTHING at this point to see the out of control, balls out, foaming at the mouth MOCDean Winchester that Metatron promised!!! Only not so much. What do we get? A ruder, callous, more aggressive version of Dean that tears up a room and gives up, seeking Death to put an end to what he knows he cant fight anymore. The big ending? Death makes a deal, Dean antes up Sam for it, Sam raises him with a couple of pictures, Death calls Dean out, either he does it or Death does and Dean bluffs, going all in by killing Death. Oh yeah, and then "The Darkness" happens. And fandom throws all their cards in the air out of exasperation... And that was my brief overview which didnt even touch Season 9 (and Cas and Sams lackadaisical attitude toward Dean and the MOC) and how little it was focused on after he received it from Cain. Yeah. Not so much.
# cheryl42 2015-05-30 22:10
Eh, I doubt you guys would be saying this if it had been Sam's storyline
Was that really necessary to say? You make good points but did you really have to go after the legitimate dissatisfaction that the others have here for the lack of story line for not just Sam but Crowley and Castiel as well? Dean's story as unsatisfactory as it may have seemed was at least a storyline that the show has been focused on for a season and a half. It would have been great if the story would have shown Sam all through S9 and S10 along with Dean desperately searching for a way to deal with the MOC. But that didn't happen until the last 5 or 6 episodes. It is what it is. At least the dam thing is gone and we can hopefully get past the blame game and have the brothers united against an evil force together.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-31 00:10
AlyCat I have to agree with Cheryl. The first sentence of your post is a pretty gratuitous shot, especially since you seem to AGREE with the problems we expressed about the entire MOC arc. You pointed out all of the ways in which it was boring and poorly executed. Whether it was Sam's story line or Dean's, it simply sucked the way it unfolded. The fact that Sam had very little involvement in the story at all from about the 6th episode to the 16th, other than to repeatedly say "we can fix this Dean" is a separate issue entirely, so I'm not sure what your point was.
# AlyCat22 2015-05-31 03:10
It wasn't meant to be a shot only an observation which I stand by. I have read post after post after post, thread after thread, griping about the MOC/DemonDean storyline but not for the same reasons as I and every other Dean fan are frustrated with and about it, and if it had been Sam instead of Deans I doubt I would be reading the same complaints as I am. How many different incarnations of WWWS have there been and I don't recall them being resolved quickly nor do I recall Sam fans counting the episodes, going on about how long the storyline was then either. I get it, he's your guy. The MOC/DemonDean storyline wasn't boring, but what it was was a whole lot of sizzle with very little steak. It was unnecessarily cut short as per DemonDean and then it was strung out so long at times I almost forgot about the MOC altogether. Good thing we had Sam (and Cas) to remind us, tho after the initial DemonDean cure, it did take them awhile to get on board with their concern. The first really daring, meaty role for Jensen to sink his teeth into and Singer cuts it short. (Smart move there, Bob! Now why dont you make your wife Head writer!?!) Then when they could really go for it and hinted and promised off and on all year, in true Supernatural fashion, they screw the pooch. So yeah, while the storyline was long, for all intents and purposes for all the screentime it actually got, there was not much there, there. Reverse the character, put Sam in Deans place and you will understand the frustration. But my comment was not meant as an insult or to be disrespectful as you seem to have taken it.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-31 07:32
Again, I'm still not sure why you couldn't just make your point without sniping at Sam fans. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I agree with many of your complaints about the shortcomings of the MOC plot, shortcomings that would have existed even if it had been Sam who took on the MOC. It made for a very dull, lackluster season for the most part. And one of my biggest gripes about it is that it gave us over 30 episodes of a Dean who lacked almost all of the qualities that I love about Dean, and I really missed that Dean. If TPTB had given Sam anything interesting to say and do during the bulk of the MOC arc I would have been happier as a Sam fan, but still very dissatisfied as a Dean/brother fan. As to your point about the length of previous Sam arcs (I'm assuming WWWS means something like walking wounded Sam?) the primary difference is that those arcs were NEVER the sole story line; there were always other plots, some even more significant, that revolved around or prominently featured Dean. The MOC has been the whole enchilada for a very long time, and I can't think of any other arc about which that has been true. And I certainly have not liked every Sam plot just because it revolved around Sam, exhibit A being the hit a dog/Amelia plot.
# AlyCat22 2015-05-31 08:32
I dont think that is entirely correct. The MOC has been the primary mytharc but not the sole. Gad possessing Sam ran the entire season. Then there was Cas, his humanity and the angels as well as Crowley, Metatron and Abaddon... Deans taking on the MOC was secondary at best and didn't figure prominently until toward the later back half. Metatron and the angels as well as Cas and his conundrum was an entirely separate issue. Season 10 started out being about DemonDean and the MOC, but once Dean was cured it was pretty much ignored for the most part until The Hunger Games. In the meantime you had Cas and Hanna and their angel quest which had little to nothing to do with the MOC. Rowena and Crowleys family feud which short of Crowley mooning for Dean had little to do with him until later on in the back half. Finally some movement with the slaughter of Randy and company and punching out Charlie and then it dropped off again until The Executioners Song. Once the BOTD came to light we got some serious movement in the storyline but as I said, later back half. So I don't see this all encompassing mytharc takeover that you do. If you mean it molded Sams storyline and that he didn't do much else that wasn't revolving around it since when he cured DemonDean, that I can understand. But that's not how it was last year or the year before that which was prominently the tablets and the trials with a short detour into Benny, Cas and Purgatory.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-31 10:17
I should have been more specific- I meant it was the sole story line involving THE BROTHERS (because those are the story lines I care about), and that's been the case from the last part of season 9, when it became the dominant story, and throughout this entire season. (Not that there has been much of a plot for Cas and Crowley this year) So I will stand by my claim that it's the only time that there was just one single story involving the brothers (to the extent it actually involved Sam) for an entire season. Every season featuring WWWS (thanks for clarifying) also featured a separate and equally significant story for Dean, but I'm not going to go season by season proving it because I suspect you would disagree, and it's pointless to keep going back and forth. I guess we're at a standoff here where we just agree to disagree. But my basic point remains the same. I don't know why you had to go beyond the merits of your position to make a generalization about what the "Sam fans" really think. I have some pretty different opinions from other Sam fans on many episodes/issues , so I don't see how you can dismiss the points made by all Sam fans on the assumption that we share the same ulterior motive. Sometimes I think you make statements like that just to stir the pot and foment some discord! ;)
# AlyCat22 2015-05-31 18:41
I never said anything about Sam fans having ulterior motives. Now whos unintentionally stirring the pot. Also when I say Sam fans Im not referring to every single person on the planet Earth who favors him. Read the myriad of comments from posters on these threads as well as other sites, the same thing over and over again about how long the MOC storyline has go on. Down to the months. Then ask me again how I can feel that if the storyline was Sams and not Deans things would be different. Because the focus would have been on Sam. Like I said, I get it - hes your guy and I'd be upset too if mine had been written the way Sam was this year - Hell I have been upset because this is usually the status quo for Dean - but it is disingenuous of some to suggest if the situation were reversed there would be this hue and cry about the length of this storyline.
# eilf 2015-05-31 19:10
Alycat, the vast majority of complaints have NOT been about Dean having the mytharc. Every time this conversation comes up someone tries to make out that the problem is that 'for once' Dean is the central character and that everyone else wants to deny him that. It ISN'T the problem and it never has been.
So one more time: we want that, while the mytharc is devoted to Dean, Sam should get the storyline that Dean gets when Sam is the one who is not his usual self. And that Sam should get the occasional entire episode that Dean regularly gets that just showcase Dean and Dean's personality. (The last few episodes of this season did remember that Sam is a character on the show too but they are so little so late that we are all scratching our heads as to what any of it means.)
This is not the same thing as you are saying.
HOWEVER the MoC storyline has not been done well for all the reasons you outline and it would have been done better if the writers had committed to raising the stakes by making the curing of Dean seem urgent and by allowing Sam to have any outlet where he could discuss the problem or showing the extent of his dealing with the problem. This would have improved Dean's storyline.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-31 20:33
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-31 20:31
but it is disingenuous of some to suggest if the situation were reversed there would be this hue and cry about the length of this storyline.
THAT is what I meant when I referred to ulterior motives. You're saying that some Sam fans are pretending they object to the MOC arc based on the merits of how it has played out, especially given the length of time devoted to it, when in fact their true objection is that it involves Dean and not Sam. Maybe there are viewers of whom that is true, but I have no way of divining the true intentions/feel ings of different posters. I only know for sure how I feel. And since your reference to "you guys" followed posts by me and just a few others about how the MOC has worn out its welcome, I naturally assumed it was directed at us, among others. Speaking for myself, you are wrong when you question the nature of my objections to the MOC plot, which are as I stated above. Sometimes a banana really is just a banana. Finally, in terms of Sam being my "guy," hah, if only!
# AlyCat22 2015-06-01 02:10
The words of mine you are quoting are in regards to or referencing the many as in collective (but not necessarily the specific posters here) and no where in that statement did I imply that some Sam fans are pretending anything. I have no idea where you got that. If you reread that sentence I think my meaning was and is quite clear. Simply put, do you mean to tell me that if Sam were the one to have the "year and a half" mytharch instead of Dean that you (as in collective, not individual) would be complaining about it irrespective of how the storyline panned out. That's what I meant. The "you guys" I used was, as I said, to reference the many postings I had been reading here in several different threads by different people. It was not specifically targeted to anyone in general nor was it specifically directed at you. If you don't feel my description or observation fits you, fine. I'm not saying it does. I didn't have anyone in mind or an ulterior motive when I wrote it. You are looking for a confrontation where there isn't one.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-01 07:17
no where in that statement did I imply that some Sam fans are pretending anything. I have no idea where you got that.
I got that from your use of the word "disingenuous" which according to the dictionary means:

adjective dis·in·gen·u·ou s \?dis-in-?jen-y ?-w?s, -yü-?s-\

: not truly honest or sincere : giving the false appearance of being honest or sincere

With that, I am done debating.
# cheryl42 2015-06-01 07:48
In answer to your question no I don't think Sam fans would have been anymore satisfied than Dean fans over the MOC storyline if it had been Sam's. If this had been Sam's story I would have been just as happy that it was finally over. This isn't the show I want to watch. The brothers being at odds for almost 2 seasons hasn't been very much fun. Darkness, dead Death, missing demon tablet, rabid Castiel, witches and hell as long as it's the brothers together against all odds count me in.
# lala2 2015-05-31 21:31
The reason ppl complained about the length of the MOC story is b/c it was a boring story with no point. Nothing happened during it. Dean killed some rapists and murderers. Who cares? Big whoop! He didn't do anything interesting or controversial under the MOC. He was basically Dean. I saw no changes in him. I saw no reason for all of Sam's concern. What was the point of even giving him the Mark if they weren't going to show him doing anything w/it?!?!? You know something is wrong when the descriptions of Dean (as told by Cain and Metatron) are far more interesting and intriguing that what we are actually being shown. That's a problem.

IMO, DD should have lasted for half of the season - assuming of course it was better written and more controversial than what was actually written. If all DD was ever going to be was bad karoke singing and random hook ups, then it could have ended sooner for me. Ideally, DD would have wreaked havoc for half a season, and then Dean would have struggled w/the MOC. And not the fake struggle we got, but a real struggle. I liked the idea of him living Cain's life in reverse. That would have been interesting to see play out, but all we got was Dean being Dean for most of the season. It was boring and pointless.

That's why this bi-bro fan didn't like Dean's part of the story. As for Sam - he was far too passive for my liking after Dean was cured, and then he was deceptive and cowardly for the second part of the arc. I didn't like his role either. I didn't like the way the MOC story was written in general.
# AlyCat22 2015-06-01 02:43
Agreed. Can't argue with you there, but since Singer is too scared to run a decent storyline from concept to conclusion we get the cluster**** that was this season. When they cut the DemonDean story short so that they could foolishly insert Fan Fiction they screwed with the organic flow that they themselves had started and IMO never recovered from it. Why the Werewolf Kate immediately after the cure? It really served no purpose, we could have had one more episode dealing with DemonDean and Sams search for him or Hell, even some backstory/flash back whatever, on what Sam had reportedly done that was suppose to make us think he was the true monster or what DemonDean and Crowley had gotten around to (did someone say triplets?). Nope. Must have Kate the fan favorite! Right. From an episode that for most ranks right down there along Bloodlines. When they decided to give us the MOC/Firstblade to replace DemonDean if they had truly hit it hard, taking Dean where he needed to go so that we got some payoff, some show rather than tell, things would have been so much better and made a lot more sense. What, does Show think when they take Sam or Cas to the darkside it's so much more shocking because they aren't considered already dark, murderous and half crazy like Dean on an average day is in general? So what Show? You think that taking an already dark, natural born killer even darker wouldnt be shocking enough??? Exciting??? Obviously you don't read the various sites since that is what so many wanted to see! Don't promise if you aren't gonna go there. That just leaves a bunch of frustrated, irritated fans such as you've got now. Lala, I love how you said the descriptions that Metatron and Cain gave were far more interesting and intriguing and dare I add in honor of too many missed opportunities, scarier as well. Even when Dean slaughtered the Stynes, I expected more. The beatdown he gave Cas was more brutal to me.
# lala2 2015-06-01 21:30
I'm not sure why the DD story was cut short, but I wasn't even a fan of what we got. I know some enjoyed it and said DD had them on their edge of their seat, but I found DD to be very watered down. I was not expecting to see DD singing karoke and having a steady girlfriend. I expected to see him "going dark" and doing demonic, evil things. But in terms of the story we actually saw, I was fine w/it ending in episode 3 b/c they weren't doing much w/the story anyway. It was rather boring to me. However, I would have preferred to see them take some chances w/Dean and actually challenge Jensen the way Jared has been challenged over the years. But someone told me that Dean wasn't fully a demon, and that he was mostly himself, which would explain the lack of change in his character. Honestly, I don't know. The story was not told very well IMO.

I agree about the descriptions of Dean being scary. I guess I still had hope when Cain died b/c I foolishly thought we would see Dean living Cain's life in reverse, but nothing happened. And by the time Metatron gave his equally good description of how MOC!Dean should have been, I just laughed b/c I knew we would not be seeing any of that on screen. I honestly remember watching that scene and thinking, "I wish Dean was behaving that way. Maybe I wouldn't be so bored this year."

This whole season was full of missed opportunities. I have never been as bored this year watching the show. I couldn't get invested in any of the plots.
# AlyCat22 2015-05-31 08:38
WWWS. Sorry thought it was a known. Whats Wrong With Sam. As in one year hes one of the psykids, the next its demon blood, the next he's souless, the next year its Lucifer and the hallucinations, the next year he's taken on the trials and is deathly ill... its like we rarely get Sam Sam. Thats one reason I enjoyed this year and would have liked to have seen more of him.
# cheryl42 2015-05-31 10:17
The possession of Sam hardly ran the entire Season. After First Born it was barely mentioned again. That was pretty much the end of any story for Sam. In S10 as the side stories weaved in and out of the season the main focus for the two lead actors was the MOC. Until the last 6 or so episodes there wasn't much going on with Sam's character. The season was uneven and the pacing made it hard to stay interested in what was happening with any character. But at least the overriding theme was what was going on with Dean and the MOC. We kept waiting for Sam's dark road or what was Sam going to do to help Dean. What we got was Sam telling Dean that "it's gonna be alright". It sounds like you pretty much had the same opinion of the MOC as the rest of us.
# eilf 2015-05-31 13:29
Reverse the character, put Sam in Deans place and you will understand the frustration.
Welcome to the Samgirl world. We have tshirts.;)
# AlyCat22 2015-05-31 18:46
Well that's good then! We will all have a common garment to rend while we are gnashing our teeth during Season 11. Solidarity baby!!!
# eilf 2015-05-31 18:54
Well If Dean has as little storyline devoted to him next season as Sam has had this season and last (and very likely next season as well because why should that change?) then I really hope that they haven't killed off either Cas or Crowley, they are going to need them or otherwise next season is going to look like this:
# AlyCat22 2015-05-31 20:34
Where's the name tag? I don't see a name tag... ;)
# lala2 2015-05-31 21:08
Deleted. Double post.
# lala2 2015-05-31 21:12
If the MOC storyline had been Sam's, I suspect it may have been written better b/c the writers wouldn't have been so concerned w/how Sam was depicted in the story. I honestly believe the writers didn't want Dean looking too bad, which is why he was fairly boring as a demon and while under the influence of the Mark. He only killed other demons or rapists and murderers. He didn't kill innocents as Sam did when he was soulless or as Cas did when he was "Godstiel." Dean was basically Dean the entire year. No chances were taken w/his character. I highly doubt the writers would have taken the same care w/Sam (or Castiel) so the story might have been more interesting w/either of them bearing the Mark.

Now, if the story had been written in the same boring, dull way w/Sam (or Castiel) as the Mark bearer, then I would have the same complaints. The MOC story was a bore, and that's b/c of the writers.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-31 22:47
If the MOC storyline had been Sam's, I suspect it may have been written better b/c the writers wouldn't have been so concerned w/how Sam was depicted in the story.
Agreed. Not only would a MOC Sam have killed both Lester AND his wife, but he probably would have beat to death the girl he was sleeping with after she dissed him. AND he would have ripped Cole apart for the sheer joy of it like any self-respecting demon- none of this crap about how the worst punishment would be to let him live knowing that his nemesis had whupped him. That was utter nonsense, as were all of the contortions the writers went through to have DD not be such a bad guy after all. The ONLY thing DD did that was truly awful was to try to smash Sam's head with a hammer, because in the warped view of the writers he probably had more justification for that than for killing some innocent.
# Lilmac48 2015-05-28 20:35
Have a few thoughts. (Have been doing this before each new season and sometimes I'm right but mostly I'm not.)

Think they will have to search for the Mark since it is a lock that held The Darkness at bay to begin with. But do not think either Dean or Sam will sacrifice themselves since they know how the Mark works. There may be an individual they find who will be worthy of accepting the Mark.

Now that Rowena has both the Book of the Damned and the Codex and apparently has become a powerful witch, I think she will cause all kinds of havoc. Just not sure what.

When last seen, Rowena had placed a spell on both Castiiel and Crowley, making Castiel to kill Crowly may not happened. In a previous episode Crowley took the Grace from the Angel Adina and gave it to Castiel. He then said that Castiel owed him one. Am wondering somehow this keeps Castiel from killing Crowley.

The Darkness reminded me of the black smoke that was Demons taking over a body. Am wondering if these are more powerful Demons making if harder for Dean and Sam to destroy.

And finally I'm wondering if we'll see the Stynes again. At least another family faction. Jacob had a gadget that was a Book of the Damned locator and wonder if it will make it's appearance again. If so then Rowena had better watch her back.

Before I forget I'm praying Baby is ok. The last time this happened she got pretty banged up.
# Debbie 2015-05-29 00:54
Here are my thoughts on supernatural final season 10. It was very good I like it tremendously I was happy that Dean was cured of the mark. Now for others things I have heard rumors that Jared Padalecki may not return for season 11 of supernatural if this true, I will not watch anymore I enjoy watching Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki working togetherness. Now as for depression, I myself have suffer from the disease from a child and I am still suffering from it. I have to family or friends to help me. I stay at home I do like to socialize with people because people like to find fault in me and use it. I prefer to say away from people as much as possible so I understand what depression is and how it hurts. Jared Padelecki is luckily that he has family and friends to help him. But people like me do not I am a afraid and petrified of the outside world I still at home and go out very little I have my son do the errands for me. And now he is becoming like me. And he is only 32 years old. So I really understand about this disease and it can be devastating and on top of that being rejection can hurt as wall.
# E 2015-05-29 09:50
Hi Debbie. I think that rumors of Jared not returning to the show are just that, rumors. Both he and Jensen are contractually obligated for season 11, so I don't think you need to worry. And Jared's managed specifically said in a press release that Jared was "looking forward to begin filming the season" or something to that effect. I wouldn't put too much stock in what you read on the internet its notoriously an unreliable place to get solid, factual information. Besides, I just ran across the Creation site (they do the Conventions) and they are already selling tickets for Los Vegas 2016! And Jared's picture as a participant is very prominently featured.

I am sorry to hear that you suffer so much with depression. That must be very difficult. You know you can come here any time and talk with all of us!
# eilf 2015-05-30 13:31
Debbie I think I saw the article that has you worried the one headlined "Jared Padalecki rumored to exit show" .... and it has SO many mistakes and guesses in it I don't think you need worry that they know anything.

For example they are under the impression that Jeremy Carver is an actor on the show.

There is also a new photo of Jared floating around this morning. Apparently someone had their picture taken with him at the supermarket.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 13:44
There is also a new photo of Jared floating around this morning. Apparently someone had their picture taken with him at the supermarket.
I was so happy to read that! The continuing silence from Jared on social media and from any of his friends or reps about how he is doing was getting me really concerned for him. I hope he does that Gilmore Girls reunion since that would indicate that he is feeling better.
# cheryl42 2015-05-30 14:15
I posted the photo on Bits and Pieces
# E 2015-05-30 14:30
Ah! Scruffy goodness. I hope he's feeling better. Sometimes there's a benefit in doing mundane things like groceries. Anyway, he's smiling!
# cheryl42 2015-05-30 14:35
Evidently he was buying magazines and candy at a Walgreens in Houston. Yes it's nice to see him smiling and shopping.
# E 2015-05-30 16:34
Ah yes... his legendary sweet tooth! Aw. :D
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 21:08
Did he swim there? I thought they were having all this massive flooding... I'm kidding. I would think you would want to stay out of that mess but Im sure its not all Houston wide.
# Mae 2015-05-30 21:57
There was flooding all over and so far 29 people have died a of this moment, so not a joking matter I'm afraid.
# AlyCat22 2015-05-30 23:10
I'm aware of the news, thanks.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 16:45
Thanks so much Cheryl! After I read eilf's post I tried, and failed, to find the pic online. It looks like his typical big smile. Where/how did you find the pic?
# cheryl42 2015-05-30 16:59
It was on tumblr and if you go to the Bits and Pieces thread I posted another picture with Jared and a young fan. Very cute. Sounds like Jared and Jensen might be in Houston together.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-05-30 17:17
I did look at both pics you posted and the one with the fan is adorable. But now I have to ask how you know they're in Houston together? I don't know why but it makes me very happy that they're hanging out. I get almost as much satisfaction from their friendship as I do from Sam and Dean's relationship. I think I need a life of my own!
# cheryl42 2015-05-30 18:58
It's weird isn't it. We care so much about these guys. One person posted a picture of Jensen supposedly in Houston at the same time as the pictures of Jared were taken, however I just saw a posting that the photo of Jared was in Austin so who knows really where everyone is.
I really do have a busy life of my own I just come across this stuff in the few minutes I hop on and off the laptop. And I must share...:p
# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-31 12:50
I don't understand? Where is this bits and pieces page? I'm not on tumblr..
# cheryl42 2015-05-31 13:28
It's on the home page. Just scroll down it's on the left hand side.
# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-31 12:46
Its such a relief to see him looking better! I'm all happy now :D
# YellowEyedSam 2015-05-31 12:45
I laughed aloud at that imaging the headline "Moose spotted at supermarket!" xD
# Margie 2015-06-01 18:48
The first thing I see is the note "She's all yours-" and all I can think of is that it should have said "She's all yours-AGAIN". Poor Sam, he keeps inheriting and taking care of the car only to have it taken away again.

The next thing I think about is all these heretofore unknowns in a world where the Winchesters are basically kings of research and actually have Angels and demons and gods and MOL and even Death to teach them. but none of these "things" have any call back to the "known" world. Eve and Leviathans from purgatory, which was unbreachable and now has a highway running thru it. Then the tablets then the CIAngels then "the Scribe" then "the Knights of hell" and the MOL then Cain and "the mark" and "the blade" and then Crowley's Mum and now TD. My head spins, I may be possessed.

There's been so much going on these last five years and there's been so little in the resolution department. The purpose of many of these new monsters has been weighed down by the sheer number of plots. So many have just faded away that I no longer can keep track. But what this does is minimize the time that can be spent developing actual characters. Although I've really liked the potential in some of the characters, they are unfinished and there seems to be no purpose in many.

After seasons 8 & 9 I decided to just go with it, try not to expect too much anymore. While I waited for the epic story of The Angels falling, then waited for the epic story of the MOC, I will not anticipate the epic "darkness" story. It will be what it will be and I will watch until the end.

But, man I want to know: how did Dean get out of purgatory for real, is there a deeper story? What was the purpose of Naomi, why was that story important? Who was standing outside Sam and Amelia's house in S8? What was the purpose of Cole, why was his story even relevant? Plus there were storylines from the first 5 years they could have addressed, but chose to ignore.

I usually go back and rewatch the whole season when I get the dvd and I do enjoy them for what they are, but I would really like to see them tone it down a bit, stop with the bigger and bigger bads that don't really deliver and deal with the humans and how they deal with the bads they have. Sadly I have this visual of the show runners doing a tap dance with a big "tahdah!" like "you're gonna love this bigger and badder thing we're gonna do if you would only be patient for 5 more years, until then we'll sssstttrrreeetttcchhh..."

Well, I got off target a bit. Anyway, I enjoyed most of the finale, I wonder if Death is dead what the consequences will be, and if it will even be addressed. Either way, I'll be there for season 11.
# eilf 2015-06-01 20:43
I agree with you on so much of this. I also don't understand the point of introducing a potentially huge and complex storyline like the Stynes could be - especially when they are so close to the Nazi bad guys from a couple of seasons ago - and then dismissing it in 2 episodes when there are, as you say, so many dangling plot threads to deal with.
And we are almost guaranteed that they are going to go for the one actually finalized (pretty satisfactorally ) storyline - Lucifer and the cage - and unpick that. It makes no sense.
Well it makes perfect sense if all the writers are writing individual fanfic using the SPN sandbox...
I wish they would pull themselves together, plot out a season and take a few risks!
Here, look! This is what a lot of people got out of the finale - something that never was - Dean in space:

I mean it is a silly idea and it was never going to happen, but on the other hand the specter of a whole 'nother season of Dean bitching at Sam (and random inserted characters introduced purely to judge Sam for what he did) and Sam trying to atone for things both done and not done, which is basically what we are in for, is so depressing to a lot of people that they just go for the silliness.

Here are some things that they could do instead:
bring back Aaron and the Golem.
Have the tablets do something
Have the Death situation have been Death setting the boys up with a test that they passed.
Have the first episode of the new season be entirely sound based because we are looking at darkness (well ok, that one is probably not a good idea)
Have the forces of heaven and hell gang up on the Winchesters and lock them up for their misdemeanours and have them escape in a wildly entertaining and awesome way.
Have Crowley turn out to be Sauron (why is the Wizard of Oz the only book that is real?) Find an applewood wardrobe somewhere in the Men of Letters bunker.
Let Castiel swap bodies with another angel for a few episodes and confuse the hell out of everyone

And above all NO MORE CLIFFHANGERS if they mean that there is nothing sensible happening for half the season. As Jared said one time he loved Kripke's writing 'cause he gets stuff DONE' he doesn't stretch out the storylines.
The show has nothing to lose at this stage, it could be better than it is, it has been occasionally brilliant over the years it really doesn't have to be maudlin now. And oh lordy was Season 10 maudlin ...
# Margie 2015-06-01 23:50
Oh yeah, Dean. In. Space. Now that could be something.
Yes, let's get Aaron and his golem back. Surely the Thule will be miffed by the Big Darkness.
Tablets and metatron..hmmmm . He's kinda worn out his welcome, but ok.
Yes, Death or a consequence of killing Death.
Oh, now real dark Darkness! Sam and Dean fighting in the dark, trying to get around, the occasional glowing eyes in the dark. Fans speculating about what Dean bumped into and what it was that grabbed Sam. Disembodied screams and voices and...laughter. That might be a real cheap 1st episode but experimental.
The forces of heaven and hell... The first thing that came to mind was...Angels and Demons, working together. MASS HYSTERIA!
Ooh nice, another fantasy book is reality! How about Crowley in Wonderland? Sam falls thru the darkened looking glass, shows up in Wonderland, complete with blue apron dress and blond curls. His quest? To get thru the number of mirrors he broke in season 1, each leading to a more ridiculous world with more outrageous costumes.
And, Castiel loses his body and must cycle thru various replacements while searching for the body formerly known as Jimmy. Turns out Metatron has used the Jimmy body to cast a spell on the Darkness to give him the only existing light in the universe (cuz it's hard to read in the dark).
Yeah, stop with the cliff- hangers that go nowhere!
Thanks for that!
# cheryl42 2015-06-01 18:59
Well I can tell you who was standing outside Sam and Amelia's house in S8. Even though it was not shown it was Don Amelia's husband. Jim Michaels confirmed that at the end of the season. I don't think the Winchesters research things until they have a problem to research. Although Sam did find the Judea Initiative by going through the MOL's archives. I would like to see more of that. I wonder if the Bunker is going to be Darkness proof.:o
# Margie 2015-06-01 19:22
Yes, Kevin Parks said that as well. But, it was not shown on TV or on the DVDs and it wasn't part of a deleted scene, therefore does not exist and was never addressed. My point is that they could actually address it still and maybe come up with something interesting, because it being Don was dumb and (yes, another one) without purpose.
# cheryl42 2015-06-01 20:20
I have a feeling that there was going to be more of a story involving Sam/Amelia/Don but the whole storyline proved so unpopular they got out of it as quickly as they could. Don standing outside the house was filmed and there really wasn't much they could do about it except let it die as painlessly as possible and hope nobody either noticed or cared. I noticed but I didn't care. I was just glad the whole mess was over.
# eilf 2015-06-01 21:11
I saw at least one comment by one of the writers or maybe even JC directly answering this point and they said that the entire arc had been written and completed filming before anyone ever saw an episode (the filming schedule for that season bears this out). It wasn't affected by popularity at all. Basically in any season the first 4 to 5 episodes at least and probably more are entirely unaffected by audience opinion because they start filming in July and the audience doesn't get to see it until October.
Now maybe if Amelia had turned out to be popular then they might have revisited the storyline. But it wasn't her initial popularity that ended the storyline.

Honestly it is hard to see why a strong willed, hard drinking, soft-at-the-cor e, smart-alec character with a line in sarcastic comments, and abandonment issues, who orders Sam around and who Sam loves, should not be popular but there it is ... maybe if she had had a car of some sort ...(did I mention that she had an abrasive father who used be in the army and so she was brought up as an army-kid?).

I liked Amelia I should say, I thought she was funny and heartfelt. She wasn't particularly good for Sam I suppose, but compared to what has happened to him since she looks like a pretty good deal.
# cheryl42 2015-06-01 21:36
Maybe after those episodes were filmed the producers and writers themselves not to mention Jared could see that it wasn't working and they let it go as quietly away as they could? Not to mention Sam was sort of dating Dean. :)
# eilf 2015-06-01 21:42
*wide eyed astonishment* Oh my LAWD was she meant to be a female version of Dean? Good gracious, who would have thought? ;)

There is a fairly good analogy to be made between Sam and Benny also but it isn't as blatant :D

I agree with you about how much Jared hated the storyline, he did a professional enough job with it but yeah, not happy. I don't blame him, Sam was badly damaged by that storyline because it made NO sense and there was no payoff to it at all.