Oh Castiel.  You adorable, well-meaning, caring, sad, misguided, pathetic and TOTALLY OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND AGAIN angel.  I get there wasn’t time to talk this over with Dean but…really?

Nah, that sounds like I have displeasure with the episode.  I don’t at all.  I quite loved it.  Yeah, once again we’re left with some “fudging the rules” headscratchers, but I’m not ready to call a total foul.  What we were given works in the terms of pushing the story forward in a mind blowing way.  We like mind blowing. 

I can be really hard on an Andrew Dabb script.  I don’t give him a lot of leeway because he commands a higher standard.  He did good this time. I was skeptical over whether he’d continue with Lucifer throwing out rape references while Sam is standing there in fear crying.  I was hoping he’d take the high road.  He did and I’m so pleased.  Sam’s encounter with Lucifer turned out to be his character defining moment and it had me grinning from ear to ear.  I’ve never been prouder.   Here he is, alone locked in a cage with his greatest nemesis and Sam stood his ground.  He didn’t fall for the trip down memory lane, images that were no doubt very haunting to him.  He didn’t cower in fear either, which means he’s actually grown from his days in season six and seven.   I mean Lucifer’s taunts drove him to insanity in season seven.  So to see Sam defiantly utter these words brought tears to my eyes:

“I think whoever wins, you or the Darkness, everyone else loses.  So, no.  My answer is no.  This isn’t about Dean or the past, this is about me.  Having faith in my friends, having faith in my family.  We will find a way.  I’m ready to die, and I’m ready to watch people I love die, but I’m not ready to be your bitch.” 

s11e10 467

If you look at Sam’s journey through this season so far, it was all a build up to this moment.  Sam is going to do things his way.  He isn’t going to be anyone’s bitch anymore.  And after eleven seasons, isn’t about freaking time?  He’s come a long way.  Now he just needs to get over that clown thing (don’t Sam, it’s too adorable).    Fingers crossed that we don’t have a drastic regression in the rest of the season. 

On the flip side is Castiel, who has plenty of growing to do.  It’s interesting that the creative choice is to have Castiel walk literally in the same shoes that Sam did back in season five.  Not that I’m upset over that because Castiel really hasn’t had much to do.  You can only binge watch so much.  But the parallels are obvious, especially with the big twist at the end. 

Okay, before I get into Castiel’s character analysis, can we get one nitpick out of the way?  Mr. Dabb has always been bolder than most with twisting canon.  I’m with a lot of you where I was stuck trying to figure out the mere logistics of how Lucifer could possess Castiel.  I know there was never a clear rule stated that an angel couldn’t possess another angel.  Castiel is also a very rare case where his vessel is empty and the host has moved onto Heaven.  So that probably makes Castiel the rightful owner of the vessel, giving him the right to say yes or no.  But, wouldn’t a vessel like that with two angels in it, including a very powerful archangel, kind of explode?  Although, it did explode a couple of times and Cas came back each time (yes I’m counting the release of the Leviathan in the water in “Hello Cruel World” as an explosion), so this is no ordinary vessel.  With his resurrections (revealed to be a curse in season seven), Castiel is definitely no ordinary angel.  Still, doesn’t it seem like a bit of a cop out after Sam said no?

Anyway, Castiel is in a vulnerable place right now.  He has been for a while.  Sam and Dean try to be encouraging, but some things need to be found out the hard way.  Talk about finding out something the hard way, running into some random stats angel.  She is the bottom of the barrel, lowest order of low, most insignificant angel in Heaven.  She is the bureaucrat.  She’s also funny, cute, and so brutally honest on her outlook.  Heck, I think I took her death harder than I did Rowena’s.  Anyway, if this wasn’t ringing in Castiel’s head when he said yes to Lucifer, then I have no idea what he was thinking. 

s11e10 316

“You help, but Sam and Dean Winchester are the real heroes.  So if the Darkness is still alive and she’s pissed, and she kills us, no big loss.  So sure, we may not be super important, but we do the job.  You know, I think there’s nobility in that.”

Was Castiel trying to be the hero?  Or was his low self esteem instead allowing him to be the sacrificial lamb to protect the real heroes?  I think it’s both.  He was at Stull Cemetery, but he blew up before he saw Sam’s triumphant moment of sacrifice for the sake of the world.  He saw nobility in Sam’s act without actually seeing it, and perhaps that’s what he was thinking here too.  He also probably thought that Sam and Dean’s work is important and he’s the lesser of the three and should be sacrificed.  He’s expendable.   (Remember, his thoughts, not mine!). 

Castiel is also a strategist.  Think about it, from an angel’s perspective, one that just had an encounter with Amara, one who saw one of the greatest angel smitings in thousands of years fail, wouldn’t you think that there’s no way to stop her?  Wouldn’t you go with the most desperate option imaginable because you think that is your only one?  He probably remembered that Sam did indeed beat The Devil once, so perhaps he can do the same, where Amara cannot be defeated.  It’s risky, it’s stupid, but as Cas has so learned from these Winchesters, it’s what you do in desperate times.   HOWEVER, we saw Amara getting ill after she sent Castiel away.  What was that all about?  Perhaps she isn’t as invincible as everyone thinks?  Or was it a simple case of the angel she just ingested not agreeing with her?  Or, maybe it was because Dean was ill.  We’ll just call it something important for later. 

Can I say that I loved seeing Misha’s take on Lucifer?  He’s obviously been studying Mark Pellegrino and went for the more exaggerated aspects of Lucifer’s character.  I liked it anyway.  I do wonder how long we’ll be seeing “Casifer” because I hope that Misha feels up to the role.  It’s definitely going to give him a new challenge!  So, since we are now in Casifer territory, let’s talk this week’s token death. 

For the record, I adore Ruth Connell as an actress, but Rowena usually rubbed me the wrong way.  Yes, as soon as I saw it was an Andrew Dabb script, I was thinking, “Whose getting killed off this time?”  I’m sorry Rowena fans, I thought it was her time.  I wish I could say I would miss her, but I won’t.  Too many other characters that I was fond of (Gabriel, Kevin, Charlie), have caused me to feel real pain when they bit the dust. I hated the way Rowena was written most of the time, especially those that wrote her too over the top (I won’t name names but we all know who).  She was awesome in this episode, downright chilling in parts.  The honest confession to Crowley about why she couldn’t love him was perfect and a brilliant swan song so to speak.  I’m pleased she went out on a high note rather than an irritated me saying, “Glad the bitch is gone.”  She should have known what happens when you deal with The Devil.  The guy has no idea what loyalty means. 

s11e10 587 RowenaCas

So farewell Rowena and I’m sure they’ll find a way to bring you back too.  I know, how about a soul in Hell?  With all she’s done in life, she ain’t getting a ticket to Heaven!  Maybe Crowley would actually spend more time in Hell with her down there.    Nah, he’d let her rot in chains like everyone else.  Speaking of Crowley, can anyone think of a reason why Casifer won’t kill him?  What’s the purpose of keeping Crowley around?  How will Lucifer prevent him from telling Dean what’s happening?  I think Crowley will find a way to escape, he always does.  I’m intrigued to see how he gets out of this one. 

As for Dean, I’m still waiting for his plot to jump start, but maybe that will come soon now that Sam has had his moment of triumph.  As much as I don’t like it, they do tend to shift the main focus between the main characters every half season.  I still loved Dean in this episode and thrilled he got to meet Billie.  I’m especially impressed that Sam told Dean about Billie.  I think she fixed the rogue reaper problem while not losing the canon that was established.  They never showed her to be an angel in this episode and she conceded that in this weird time where the reapers are without a leader, it’s good to have the King of Hell owe you a favor.  It definitely makes sense given her circumstances.  What also makes sense is that she would be able to control the entrance to Hell.  No going through Purgatory this time!  (Still bitter that they totally invalidated season six when they did that in “Taxi Driver”).  If it had been anyone other than a reaper I would have been throwing that penalty flag. 

I would really like to see Dean and Sam have that talk about saving each other from this point forward.  Sam may be willing to let those he loves die, but can Dean do that?  Can he get over that hurdle?  It’s always hard to act that way in a “push comes to shove” moment but as Dean said in the end, “The Darkness is bad.  Her and the Devil, it’s a nightmare.”  They’re in this mess because of both of them have put each other’s survival over the world.  Now Castiel is in the thick of this mess too, and it’s all because Sam hit that f***ing dog (oh, I’m kidding).   

Stray Thoughts

Welcome back Colin Ford!  Wow, you have grown into quite the handsome young man.  Glad you got to play young Sam at least one more time. 

s11e10 163 ColinFord

Remember when Sam asked Lucifer what his plans were after he defeated Amara?  Lucifer gave the quick joke, “We move to LA and solve crimes?”  That’s the EXACT premise of the new FOX show Lucifer, which premieres next week.  It’s a Warner Brothers show, so they’re keeping the references all in the family!  I know because I interviewed the cast and producers at Comic Con.  Look for that preview on TVFTROU this weekend!

Did anyone see the comic Billie was reading about Death?  Was that a shoutout or a clue?  Any thoughts on the matter would be most welcomed! 

Overall grade, an A-.  The episode was meant to push the plot along in a big way and it wildly succeeded, but there were a few hints of the trademark Dabb plot contrivances in there that knocked it down a small peg (Why did Castiel leave the expendable angel alone to find Amara?  Why did Dean have to be the one that put on the witch catcher when Crowley drugged her?  How can Crowley get cell phone reception in Hell?)


# PSG 2016-01-22 21:55
Ha! You liked it more than I did. It was too busy and would have benefited from less flashbacks. I am thrilled that Sam turned down the BDH offer Lucifer gave him in the end for Winchester teamwork. It was much needed character growth that I have expected this season for Sam. I wish he had chosen Dean and TFW last episode.

As for Castiel. He was shaken to his core and angels were made to follow archangels. I wasn't surprised, in fact I expected it.

I really stopped by to remind you of Metatron's goal of rewriting the Winchester Gospels. He's somewhere celebrating his victory. He's been manipulating TFW like pawns.
# AlyCat22 2016-01-22 22:08
How can Crowley get cell reception in Hell, how does Sam always manage to find a WiFi signal (I'd love to ask him who he uses as a carrier...), how is it the Men of Letters bunker manages to have running electricity and water after all this time... it's supernatural baby!
# Didi 2016-01-22 22:54
I agree. It's Supernatura baby! Back in the day The Men of Letters bunker used to be a secrect, warded safe house. Now we've got Lucifer watching Netflix in the spare bedroom. The Men of Letters are turning over in their graves. Lol
# YellowEyedSam 2016-01-23 07:24
Its the demon blood that gives such good reception :P
# AlyCat22 2016-01-24 15:02
The demons definitely have the better deal when it comes to making calls... No pesky plans or carrier terms and conditions, peak time, roaming... just grab an innocent and you're ready to go!
# sylvia37 2016-01-24 14:06
When I mentioned the WiFi thing to my husband, he pointed out that Sam is probably using his phone's data. We've done that before when we couldn't pick up WiFi.
# AlyCat22 2016-01-24 14:59
Yes but poor guy, as much as he would be on it most plans drop down to 2 or 3 g once you've used so much!
Of course they could always hit up the restauants that offer free WiFi during their "motel inbetween times" to save on their data... I'll keep my eyes peeled next time I'm in a McDonalds! :)
# cheryl42 2016-01-22 22:53
Thank you Alice. I really liked this episode too. My theory that I have posted elsewhere is that Cas got expelled from his host body during the spell. I think that is why Lucifer wanted to make sure that no one else could open the cage. Or The Cage. So right now I think it is just Lucifer in there. As much as I am thrilled that Cas finally has a story I thought his Lucifer was a little too Levi Cas/Godstiel campy. I hope he tones it down a little. Mark P is the master at campy menace. It's a hard act to follow.
I loved Sam standing up to Lucifer. That was a great scene a beautifully acted. I also loved that Sam threatened Lucifer with his awesome older brother too. There was never a doubt in his mind that Dean would come and kick Luci's ass or at least try to.
I had a love hate relationship with Rowena. She got better as her role went on. And when not written by "those two" she was fun to watch. But you are right there are other deaths that were far more devastating than hers. Charlie most recently (and I will never not sob uncontrollably at Jo and Ellen). I think she will end up in the empty if Lucifer knows that it exists. He should take no chances. Crowley does have that hamster so there may be hope for Cas yet.
There was so much happening in this episode that I will have to do a rewatch to absorb it all. The only thing missing was Dean's elusive story. I hope it gets going soon.
# Jen 2016-01-22 23:13
Thank you Alice lovely reveiw. There is one thing I havn't heard from anyone maybe because it was so obvious ------
I found that the respect & love the brothers feel for each other totally shined through in this episode. It totally reinforced their family comitment. I had a tear in my eye right through the whole episode, because that botherly love was so strong & got rid of any doubts that they were back together, back on equal ground, Beautiful xxoo :):):):)
I think some people may not have like the line were Sam says to Lucy " My brother is going to walk through that door and kick your ass " that was beautiful So much love in that sentence.
The Comic Billie was reading "Death the time of your life" LOL -- could mean something not sure. I'm just upset we don't get our Train whistles any more.
Dean putting on the coller not sure, maybe Dean just wanted the pleasure of doing it or for Crowley to have the control somebody else had to do it.
Amara looking weak after sending Crowley off with a message, --- Could something be going on behind the scenes ?? as could that angel have had some poison in her system ?? or since Amara was introduced she has been having Demon souls or not so pure souls, maybe because Amara is essiently DARK something as pure as a angels soul may disagree with her. I know she took the priests soul and the other people in the church but their souls would not have been as pure as a angels soul. ??? Or maybe she is going through another change ??? anybody else with ideas.
I'm very happy with this season and I'm so glad that up too a point Sam has been vindicated through those flash backs we arn't totally satisfied but I will take it as a win :):):):):)
Now for Dean we need Sam to help him change or except some personality growth, re - think some of his bad habits over the seasons and become are beautiful Dean again. And then we can all celebrate because our Boys will be back
# LEAH 2016-01-23 01:03
I agree Jen with much of what you say here. You can feel the love and support for each other.

I just think the collar thing was planned that way, Crowley distracting while Dean snuck up behind which was also a distraction until the drug took effect.

As for Amara and her apparent unsteadiness I think she is about due for menopause isn't she?:D
# Jen 2016-01-23 07:16
Menopause and a nursing home, while we are on that subject Leah why did she need all those souls to grow up and now only need the odd one every now and then, and as you said at the rate she was growing Amara should be a 100 ++++++ If she knows the secret tothe fountain of youth I won't to know what it is LOL :):):):):):) I hope SPN will give us some brief explanation to this
# LEAH 2016-01-23 17:52
You know Jen, there are a lot of things that need some more explanation.:) But that's ok it's till a pretty good ride so far this season.
# spnlit 2016-01-23 16:36
Amara looking weak after sending Crowley off with a message
Could be something simple. The angel smiting weakened her and she ate one soul to revive. She used up some of her power when she branded Castiel and sent him with her message. She may just need more souls to get her juice back.
# AlyCat22 2016-01-23 19:32
Angels don't have souls. Amara absorbed the angels Grace. The grace of God? Maybe that's why she had an "allergic" reaction?
# Didi 2016-01-22 23:20
Alice, I agree with you that the brothers should have a conversation about saving each other from this point forward.

I would really love to see the show do a filler episode where the boys are trapped in an elevator, or basement, or wharehouse, or whatever... And they are forced to actually talk to each other. There are over 10 seasons of memories, stories, hugs, angst... They are no longer the same guys that hunted Wendigos and engaged in credit card fraud. Too much shit has happened.

I want them to have a conversation about saving each other at all cost, talk about Sam hitting the dog (in a meaningful way, that doesn't insult viewers' intelligence). I want closure on some of "dangling bits". I want them to reminisce about the good times, have a few laughs about some of the lighter moments...

Most of all I'm tired of guessing and surmising, and being left to my own devices to figure out who meant to say what and how to interpret it. Tired of reading between the lines. Too much lazy writing, particularly during the Carver years. I want one episode that ties up some of these loose ends without dismissing cannon.

In keeping with Carver tradition, it probably won't happen until the last 10 minutes of the last episode of the series. If it happens at all.
# Mallena 2016-01-23 01:15
Ooh, good idea!! I didn't like that Amelia flashback in the episode because of the same old tired, totally not true, Sam statement....." I made a promise". Yes, there might have been a promise, but that can't be the whole reason. Sammy is not that cold. If they have a stuck in the elevator ep, please don't let it be a clip show. Back in the olden days, most shows had at least one clip show per season, and they were always lame. By the way, Spn did an ep called clip show which I can barely watch because they killed poor sweet Sarah who just had a baby girl. Too sad.
# Jen 2016-01-23 07:18
Double, Triple Ditto !! Is that right Samdean or did I miss one
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 09:44
Here are the rules Jen: first there needs to be a ditto, the next stage is a double ditto, and last we have the triple ditto. You can't have a double, triple ditto since each is a separate stage. That's very important!!!! This part is a little complicated, but at any stage you can strengthen the ditto with a "mega." For example, "mega ditto" , "double mega ditto" etc. Easy, right?:)
# LEAH 2016-01-23 17:55
Thank you for clearing that up! I'm glad I got in at the "ditto" level.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 18:07
Just follow the rules Leah and we won't have a problem!:D
# AlyCat22 2016-01-23 19:37
It sounds like Sam&Dean might be up to starting her own "Mega Coven"...
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-24 09:12
Hmmm...well, a huge void HAS now been created in the witch world. Not a bad idea Alycat! I shall start searching for minions, I mean MEMBERS, on the WFB.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 09:54
Didi, some friends and I were just talking about this. My preference is an ep where they are confined to the bunker (maybe because of a blizzard? I say that because there is one occurring outside my house right now!) and they spend the time playing board games, drinking, and TALKING. Liquor will loosen their manly lips and allow them to express actual feelings and emotions.:) And in their slightly drunk states, they will finally hash out much of the crap from the last few seasons that has essentially just been swept under the rug. I guess men don't need closure on those issues, but dammit I do! I always think of Fallen Idols when people say that the boys don't talk about their feelings, it's not their way! Bullcrap! They used to do it semi-regularly and the world didn't tilt off its axis. In just a couple of SHORT conversations in FI, both brothers expressed themselves in a mature manner, digested each other's POV, and they ultimately cleared up a lot of the crap from S4 and the beginning of S5. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I believe that after that conversation Dean never again threw Ruby in Sam's face-- until S 8.
# spnlit 2016-01-23 18:19
My preference is an ep where they are confined to the bunker (maybe because of a blizzard? I say that because there is one occurring outside my house right now!) and they spend the time playing board games, drinking, and TALKING. Liquor will loosen their manly lips and allow them to express actual feelings and emotions.:) And in their slightly drunk states, they will finally hash out much of the crap from the last few seasons that has essentially just been swept under the rug.
Love this idea...would be a great ep plus slightly drunk Sam would be fun. Aside: Hope you stay safe and warm during the blizzard. No snow here... I have snow envy.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 18:42
slightly drunk Sam would be fun
Agreed. When was the last time we saw drunk Sam? I know it's been a very long time.
An ep like this would be like the first 15 minutes of Baby but stretched out over an entire ep. Ah, it would be awesome.:)
About the snow, you can have some of ours because we're almost at 2 feet. It is gorgeous, but a bit much to shovel. And there is so much on our roof that I worry about a collapse, although it's a remote possibility (I hope). Do you no longer live in Pa? or at least nearby?
# spnlit 2016-01-24 16:05
samandean10: I still live in the fine state of PA but left the metro area for the slow life in the forest and farm area in Tioga County too far north for the storm. Sam and Dean would find plenty to do on our remote back roads.
# Didi 2016-01-23 20:34
Love, love, love this idea. TPTB, are you listening?
# novi 2016-01-23 04:09
Oh Alice, this thought of yours that Amara may feel sick because Dean feels sick - if it is really so the prospects for Dean are grim! But then killing Amara is becoming easy, one simply has to send Dean up to Heaven. Soon as Lucifer learns it there will be some hunting!
# AlyCat22 2016-01-23 19:41
Interesting idea but wouldn't you think if that were the case that because of the bond that it should be reciprocal? When Amara got the blast from Heaven it didn't affect him...
# swapnil 2016-01-23 04:23
In the episode, I Think I am gonna like it here, the angel HAEL wants to take over Castiel's vessel and she said " We are gonna become one". That meant they will be together in one vessel. SO lucifer possessing castiel vessel is canon.
# njspnfan 2016-01-23 15:53
... and it didn't make any sense back then, either. Back in S4/S5, a big deal was made about the fact that archangels are special cases and any old vessel won't do. They even had to resurrect Adam because Dean wouldn't say yes to Michael. On the other hand, God keeps bringing Castiel back so maybe he made his human vessel more angel possession friendly :)
# swapnil 2016-01-23 04:23
Alice love your review as always...
# Sarah 2016-01-23 04:49
Great review! I agree with you on all the major points in the episode. I especially like your commentary on Sam, since it's always a little bit harder for me to get into his head than Dean's. There is one thing I don't get about Cass's plan though. I understand using the Devil to beat the Darkness. I understand him sacrificing himself so the Devil can beat the Darkness. I even recognize that there's a real possibility that at this point, Cass doesn't even care about the future of the human race as long as Sam and Dean are safe. But here's what I don't get: Cass knows- he knows- that Lucifer will always want his true vessel and the his plans for Hell on Earth will always include the Sam. So why does he do it? Why does he make a decision that will eventually lead to the death or suffering of one of his best friends? In my opinion, I don't think Cass thinks of himself as necessarily expendable. I think that was an interpretation of an angel who only really understands the hierarchical structure of Heaven and probably has a tough time wrapping her head around friendship. I think Cass is probably viewing the situation as hopeless and his ability to contribute as minimal. But he's still a strategist and he still knows that the end result of Lucifer walking the Earth is going to involve Sam. So why does he do it? My only ideas are ether: a) Castiel's body (and it is his body now) is somehow strong enough to comfortably house Lucifer so he won't need Sam, which is bizarre, but maybe? or b) Castiel can offer Lucifer something that will protect the Winchesters while the Devil torches the planet. My only idea for that one is that, like with Sam and Gadreel, Cass can rescind his consent and kick Lucifer out. Anyway, that's just the puzzle my brain's been kicking around for the last two days. For the record, even though I want to understand his though process, I still think Cass is an idiot. Thoughts, anyone?
# Jen 2016-01-23 07:34
Good points Sarah I was wondering if this is going to be another balls up via the writing department. !!! Have they looked at cannon and thought this one through. Its easy enough to say --
Ok Misha we won't Cas to say yes to Lucifer Great thats good OHHHHHHHH now what how do we carry this story through, to what end can this carry the story. If Cas is not in control of Lucy and it appears he isn't Lucy is going to do what ever he wont's Wonder around causing havoc "Breaking necks and cashing chqs" Killing Amara ahhhh not today. I really think for however long the writers decide, Cas the character isn't Cas its Lucifer. And unless Cas can break through like Sam did and he may only have the strength to control Lucy for a brief moment. I don't think we will be seeing Cas until the end of the season.

Novi & Alice in regard to your comment ------
Oh Alice, this thought of yours that Amara may feel sick because Dean feels sick I positivly remember a interveiw with Jared & Jensen where the question was -- Jensen your relationship with Amara is some sort of personnal connection. And Jared laughed and pinched Jensen and Jensen said No its not like a voodoo doll thing Can anybody remember this interview Thanks Jen
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 10:02
And Jared laughed and pinched Jensen and Jensen said No its not like a voodoo doll thing

Wow, if that's right Jen then Alice is correct about Amara feeling sick because of Dean. But that raises another question. If this connection is due solely to the fact that Dean had borne the MOC, then shouldn't the same connection exist between Amara and Lucifer? In fact there should be an even stronger connection since he was the original bearer of the MOC. I'm still waiting for the show to clarify all of that MOC murkiness. Since this entire plot hinges on the special MOC connection, they cannot simply ignore the fact that Luci was the first to bear it. Especially since he is now walking the earth again!
# cheryl42 2016-01-23 10:11
Well the impact on hell was massive and the cage was damaged. What other reason would there be (other than Amara trying to set Lucifer free) for that to happen? I think all the clues are being put into place. We are only half way through the season. As fast as the pace is going I think a lot of reveals are in our immediate future.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 12:16
It would actually make sense for Amara and Luci to be allies. Both feel betrayed by God, both hate all of the "light" of God's creations.
# Jen 2016-01-23 19:03
Hi Samand Dean I found the link to the interview I was talking about. I honestly don't believe Amara's sudden weakness was caused by Dean's smitting sickness. -- Jensen said their only connection is the MOC
Or "The lock and Key" as they call it now this interveiw was here on WFB back at S11 Ep1 I think.


May I just add that I don't think Lucy really cares about Amara unless she gets in the way I feel Lucy has his own agenda and dressed like Cas and playing it down for as long as he can Lucy will just roam around wreaking havoc -- youknow "Snapping necks and cashing chqs"
# AlyCat22 2016-01-23 19:54
Lucifers main goal is getting into the Men of Letters bunker. He's jealous that everyone and their sister has been able to traipse through there... :)
# Didi 2016-01-23 20:38
That made me smile. I can't wait for scene where we see Casifer digging into the lore.
# Jen 2016-01-23 22:00
You guys are SO FUNNNNNY I wonder can Lucy read LOL he is that old ?? He may not know english ?

Actually in the Clip for this half of the season You see Dean running through the bunker in his suit with a gun I wonder who got in there this time. ??????????
# AlyCat22 2016-01-23 22:43
Don't you mean who isn't in the bunker! Ha!
# AlyCat22 2016-01-23 22:44
Luci won't be able to make any sense out of Sam's filing system!!!
# AlyCat22 2016-01-23 19:50
That Cas agreed is even more illogical when you stop and think about the fact that now Lucifer knows everything he knows! Little things like where Cas hid the First Blade and now he has the demon tablet. Right? And let's not forget that Rowena/Crowley were working off the BOTD and the codex - so unless Dean and Sam snatched those back up when they got the Hell out of Hell he's got them too. Okay, I take that one back, there's no way the Winchesters would have left those behind. But still as SubterfugeCas! he would have the opportunity to get his hands on them later as long as the boys are trusting.
# YellowEyedSam 2016-01-23 07:44
Can I say that I loved seeing Misha’s take on Lucifer? He’s obviously been studying Mark Pellegrino and went for the more exaggerated aspects of Lucifer’s character. I liked it anyway. I do wonder how long we’ll be seeing “Casifer” because I hope that Misha feels up to the role. It’s definitely going to give him a new challenge! So, since we are now in Casifer territory, let’s talk this week’s token death.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Jared didn't get a chance to do the snarky version Misha did, did he? Its tough to compare when both played different aspects of Lucifer. Regardless I thought Misha did a convincing Lucifer. Looking forward to future episodes :)

So farewell Rowena and I’m sure they’ll find a way to bring you back too. I know, how about a soul in Hell? With all she’s done in life, she ain’t getting a ticket to Heaven!
As much as I like Rowena she shouldn't come back anytime soon. Death needs to have meaning on this show. Not "Oh we'll see her week in Hell"

As for Dean, I’m still waiting for his plot to jump start, but maybe that will come soon now that Sam has had his moment of triumph.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Why the bleep hasn't Amara thanked Sam yet? He's the one who pushed through this will book of the damned thing. Gah it annoys me when Amara says "It was you that freed me" to Dean. NO it wasn't. That's one of my annoyances this season and will it be addressed? Noooo it will fade into obscurity like other plot holes.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 10:04
Why the bleep hasn't Amara thanked Sam yet?
Or Rowena or Crowley or Cas? I agree.
# Didi 2016-01-23 15:15
I think Amara already thanked Cas, by delivering him to Luci. And by extension, she thanked Rowena as well. Only Sam and Crowley left on the list.
# eilf 2016-01-23 21:28
But from Amara's point of view Sam has nothing to do with releasing Amara. I mean from a story point of course he was the one trying to save Dean - by any and all means as he knows is expected of him - and the end result was the whole Darkness release. But from a magical connection angle he wasn't there for the planning of the spell, and despite what Dean said, he didn't 'say the spell', he was not one of the ingredients of the spell. If Dean had killed him then Amara/the Darkness wouldn't have been released because Death would have sent Dean to be Major Tom somewhere, and I suppose you could look at the appeal to Dean's humanity succeeding as being something that links him directly to her release, but even then Dean had far more impact by not killing Sam / killing Death than anything Sam had to do with it (directly enough for Amara to consider it). Amara is connected to Dean because of the MOC, and the bearer of the MOC allowed her to be released, so she is linked to him and thanks him.
I understand that it is necessary for the human characters to blame Sam for the release of the Darkness because that is how SPN rolls, and he feels responsible for it anyway. Both brothers are responsible for the current situation. But on a supernatural level Sam was at most a catalyst (a substance that causes a reaction to occur but is not itself involved in the reaction).
# YellowEyedSam 2016-01-24 19:12
Regardless it still irks me. Sam is the reason why the Darkness was freed because he saved the book of the damned and persisted in using it regardless of Dean's orders. I've enjoyed Sam's story for the first half but it seems this is once again Dean's season. But it IS a good season, better than last year. I do wonder what story line (if any) is in store for Sam. I'm sure it'll have something to do with Lucifer. I just hope its decent.
# eilf 2016-01-24 19:24
Well, ok if you want to lay that on him as well I won't argue, though I really don't see it :) (particularly since Charlie found the book and it is indestructable so Sam rescuing it was irrelevant) It does simplify the storyline to have a single whipping boy for all misdeeds.
# YellowEyedSam 2016-01-24 19:50
Whaa its indestructible? Well damn that takes the tension out of the "should I throw it in the fire?" scene right out the window. Lets just leave it at Sam pushed to use it at the end then.

Oh crap I forgot about Charlie. Uh.. well she's dead, she doesn't count. :P You know what? Amara should of burned a different message onto Cas "Thnx for releasing me with that spell Rowena. XXX p.s watch out for the surprise twist lolol" btw she would write it small enough to fit on his chest.
# eilf 2016-01-24 19:55
Yes the point of that scene was so that Dean would find out that Sam was lying (since he said the book was destroyed when it couldn't be) about trying to save him from the MOC and its turning-Dean-in to-an-immortal- monster effects.
# eilf 2016-01-24 20:04
I suspect 'messages Amara could have burned into Cas's chest' has many, many alternatives. :P

My entry is: 'present for Lucifer, pre-tenderized, please deliver ASAP'
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-24 20:48
here are some options:
"desperately seeking a decent story line"
"meatsuit for rent, certified fresh."
# ScifiSpirit 2016-01-26 17:10
As much as I like Rowena she shouldn't come back anytime soon. Death needs to have meaning on this show. Not "Oh we'll see her week in Hell"
This is random, but can I just say how funny I find this. On other shows, fans are so fearful of any death. They're like "no no no, please don't kill this person. Please find a way to bring this person back!!" And over here in SPN fandom, we're all like "Ok, you're dead already. You've died like 12 times, can you please stay dead now!? Can anyone who's died actually just stay dead, please?" LMAO! Sorry, but there is truth in what you say in your quote above and I just find it hilarious. :) Carry on.
# ScifiSpirit 2016-01-26 17:11
double post
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-23 10:42
Alice, thanks for a great review. I've got similar impressions about the episode, though I was puzzled by Misha Collins' portrayal of Lucifer to be honest, but hopefully it will grow on me later on.
Having read the review and the comments I've got only one question. Who do you, guys, think Amara adressed her message and why did she send Castiel to the enter of the Hell? It seems that logically only one answer is most probable. She adressed her message to Lucifer as her true consort and sent Castiel as a possible vessel for him. I doubt there will be a conflict between Amara and Lucifer, I think Lucifer won't fight with Amara, he will join her.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 12:24
disgruntled, that relates to my question above about the MOC. Amara should feel just as strong a connection to Luci as to Dean, as Luci was the original bearer of the MOC. And as Cheryl suggests, maybe that's why Amara's release damaged the cage in the first place. So maybe she and Luci will be allies, and the only fly in the ointment will be Dean. Amara clearly feels a connection to him, Luci seems to feel disgust or hatred towards him. There are lots of different ways this could play out. I hope they have the story progress a bit in each ep, rather than cramming most of the myth arc into a few episodes towards the end as they've done in other seasons. I have really enjoyed the way they've woven the myth arc throughout almost every ep this year. They've really found a great balance between MOTW eps and the mythology story.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-23 14:32
You know, the more I think about Cas' decision the more catastrophic it seems. The best case scenario is Cheryl's theory that Cas is in the Cage, if not... then the Devil knows everything that Cas knows. Castiel knows everything about the brothers, they trust him unconditionally , Dean even gave him the First Blade to hide. And who knew that Crowely was more worthy of trust? And why? I think we should seek answers in Our Little World, there Metatron described Cas' mental state, I think the key is there. Plus everything that was said in this episode, and we shouldn't ignore Luci's arguments.
the only fly in the ointment will be Dean
More like a fly in the spider's web
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 15:00
True, he is a fly in Amara's web, I just meant that if Amara and Luci are in fact allies,Dean might become a wedge between them if Luci comes to resent the special connection between Dean and Amara and the preferential treatment he receives from Amara. About Cas being in the cage now, the only way it seems that this could have happened is if Cas vacated his vessel just as Luci possessed it, thus was sent back to the cage in lieu of Luci. Maybe he intended that all along for just the reasons you stated: that if Luci betrayed his promise to Cas, he at least wouldn't know everything that Cas knew. This actually bothers me because it completely mirrors Sam's sacrifice in consigning himself to the cage for the greater good. So I hope it was not intentional on Cas's part, but rather an accident or unintended effect of the spell. In any event, I'm not sure how Cas will get out of the cage, but if he does presumably he will have valuable info from Michael. I'm uneasy about the whole Casifer story because I fear it will diminish or dilute the Samifer story, but there are many directions this could take, so I will withhold judgment-- for now!:)
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-23 15:28
True, he is a fly in Amara's web, I just meant that if Amara and Luci are in fact allies,Dean might become a wedge between them if Luci comes to resent the special connection between Dean and Amara and the preferential treatment he receives from Amara
I think the plan was more sinister in fact. I think I know why Amara changed her mind and decided not to suck out Dean's soul, she needed the consent of the rightful owner of Dean's body for Lucifer and taking into consideration her power over Dean... I won't like if the story will go that direction and I hope that I'm mistaken, but that's possible. Dean is as strong vessel as Sam...And Jimmy Novak meatsuit can be only a temporary solution.
# Didi 2016-01-23 15:22
If Cas is in the cage, this would not be the first time. It might even be easier for him to get out this time than before cause he doesn't have Luci to deal with.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-23 15:35
I agree, if Cas is in the Cage it would be the best case scenario, as I have already said. Moreover, now when Lucifer escaped, there is zero sense to keep the Cage closed, everybody who is there doesn't deserve to be there, they should be released. Why to keep Michael in the Cage if Lucifer walks the Earth?
# Didi 2016-01-23 15:47
Hmmm...that's intersesting food for thought. I don't think Show is going to go there. Too logical.
# eilf 2016-01-23 23:26
Because Michael ALSO wants to start the Apocalypse? :( Just cause he's the golden boy in daddy's eyes (until Daddy gets back and throws a fit) and Lucifer is the screw-up doesn't mean he can't (or won't) cause exactly the same amount of damage - he will just be smug and self-righteous about it at the same time. Michael was just as deserving of being in the cage as Lucifer.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-24 05:47
May be, but I'm not so sure. Yes, he planned the Apocalipse and released Lucifer to fulfill his plan, but what was the point to keep him here, if Lucifer is free? Is he worse than Lucy? To keep him there made sense so as he wouldn't release the Devil to start the Apocalypse again, but it seems to me it's not so unambiguous issue under new circumstances. I simply don't know.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-24 09:22
eilf, I agree that Michael was no prize but he is the lesser of two evils compared to Luci. During all the thousands of years that Luci was trapped in the cage Michael just sat on his cloud pondering the great imponderables, like what came first, the chicken or the egg, while humanity trundled along on its own, killing each other and fouling the planet. He was only roused to action by Luci's escape. Luci, OTOH, hates our mere existence and we will be at the top of his agenda should he ever defeat Amara-- unless of course he is in league with her. Then we are all screwed. :D
# eilf 2016-01-24 11:16
I am trying to remember some piece from a movie / TV show where characters A and B are trying to fix a big problem. And while character A isn't looking character B breaks something making their problem even worse. And the first character says 'what, X wasn't enough for you, you needed a bigger challenge?' I wish I could remember what the scene is - I think it might be about defusing a bomb .... :P
ETA - its Speed! 'What's that smell?' 'It's gas.' ' we're leaking gas?' 'We are now.'

Anyway two thoughts on this:
1) The entire point of the Apocalypse storyline was that the angels were basically not the good guys - none of them. They were agenda driven and didn't care about mankind. Lucifer didn't want to start the apocalypse, the angels as a group wanted it started so that Lucifer and Michael could have their big fight. That is why they were working as a team, along with demons to keep Dean in hell, to prevent Sam from trading with him and to ensure that neither of them realised that the seals were being sabotaged and that Lilith was the last one. Sam and Dean got played by the forces of heaven and hell. Michael is basically as bad as Lucifer he just THINKS he's the good guy. He absolutely isn't. For example he promised Dean that he would be safe as his vessel. But I seem to remember that it wasn't just Lucifer who can leave his vessel a drooling mess - I believe Raphael did too? So they can pick and choose how they treat their vessels. So much for caring for humanity. What Michael was saying was 'I can damage you if I want but do what I tell you and I won''t - that is a threat pure and simple. It isn't particularly that there are 'good' archangels ... and Lucifer. They all 'choose' to be the way they are while simultaneously claiming they have no free will.

There were discussions about the human death toll in the Apocalypse battle - which I can't remember who was discussing (that is a very complicated sentence - sorry) but it is as likely between Michael and Dean as anyone. And the angels were all 'yeah but humans are expendable, we will try to keep it to a minimum'. The angels don't care about humans except that they were told by God that humans are 'better' - and they resent that. Lucifer is just the one who said so. Lucifer has a whole extra level of evil now but that is like, well, Sauron is worse than Saruman. That's true but Saruman can destroy everything too. Angels are as bad as demons in a way because they are total hypocrites whereas at least demons are honest. That was the storyline that Kripke was writing to the end of season 5.

2) They already have Amara, Lucifer and Crowley all out with their own agendas and all very happy to use humans as cannon fodder in their supernatural battles. It would be nuts to release Michael into the middle of that as well. A superpowered, supernatural being who is also apparently absolutely insane! No, limit the number of fronts you want to fight a battle on.

Now it is possible that they may decide try a version of the Gadreel removal from Season 9, talking Michael into helping them to get rid of Lucifer. But considering Sam's absolute refusal to deal with Lucifer I can't see Dean agreeing to be possessed by Michael. Especially if we believe 'I would never lie to you' Lucifer about Michael being crazy.

To let Michael out right now just because they feel sorry for him is not really a justifiable decision. (Of course, TV (and particularly SPN) being what it is, if they DID decide to do that then it would turn out that Michael was just what they needed but it makes no sense on prior experience within this story). Since in Swan Song Lucifer is the one trying to see if they can settle all this without the fight and it is Michael who stands firm, Michael is as likely to come out of the cage with one single thought in his mind - Apocalypse NOW.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-24 13:01
Oh, I agree that Michael is most certainly NOT the good guy. He's just not as evil as Luci. (talk about damning him with faint praise!) He felt indifference or even contempt for humans, but he never seemed to hate them as Luci did. If he had emerged victorious from the death match with Luci, during which half of the planet was fried, he would not then have turned around and fried the other half. He has always presented himself as God's good, dutiful son. the whole reason he wouldn't accept Luci's peace offering in SS is because that would have meant letting Luci have his way with the planet and destroy humanity, and that would have contravened God's express wishes. If Michael felt the same homicidal hatred for people as Luci, he could simply have stood down. However, as the "dutiful" son, he could not let that happen. Now, I'm not necessarily saying that he should now be released (though it might make for some interesting scenarios concerning him, Luci and Amara). I'm just saying that he poses the least threat to humanity of the three of them. And I would maybe enjoy a plot in which someone is able to contact Michael and he provides the valuable intel about Amara that I was desperately hoping Sam would worm out of Luci.:(
# eilf 2016-01-24 14:26
But ... ok Lucifer wanted to wipe out humanity. Michael when he won would have brought 'paradise on earth'. I don't think at any point it was indicated that this Paradise was going to include humans. Dean (as Michaels vessel) was going to get "2 virgins and 70 sluts" (which is an obnoxious line that someone should have reconsidered but indicates that the living world would also be destroyed - and heaven the result) And in the meantime I assume that Michael would have winnowed humanity down to the most deserving since that is one of the fundamental aspects of most Apocalypse stories. And Michael being so full of it would probably taken the Soddom and Gomorrah angle on it all and nobody be found worthy. We don't know but it is plausible because, as you say, he is indifferent or contemptuous of humans.
Here is Zacchariah's take on it:
ZACHARIAH: Why not? The apocalypse? Poor name, bad marketing -- puts people off. When all it is is Ali/Foreman. On a... slightly larger scale. And we like our chances. When our side wins -- and we will -- it's paradise on earth. Now, what's not to like about that?
DEAN: What happens to all the people during your little pissing contest?
ZACHARIAH: Well... you can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs. In this case... truckloads of eggs, but you get the picture. Look... it happens. This isn't the first planetary enema we've delivered.

The cage match would have allowed one or other of Lucifer or Michael to win. BOTH of them being around (which is what Lucifer wanted) would have reduced the ability of one or the other to reduce or destroy humanity. Both of them being gone is a lot safer in all respects.
# eilf 2016-01-24 14:53
I guess I feel strongly about this but it is because I have a lot less time for people who claim that the damage they do is for the greater good than for people who do wrong but who know that it is wrong.:)
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-24 17:01
I don't think at any point it was indicated that this Paradise was going to include humans.
The only reason I surmised it would is that as the dutiful son, I assume he would act at least somewhat in accordance with God's wishes. And God clearly wished that his favored creations would continue to populate the earth. That being said, I feel that I somehow have maneuvered myself into defending a position that I don't really support.:) I agree with you that like virtually all angels, Michael is arrogant, self-righteous and has no fondness for humans. And I think that he opposed Luci not because he cared all that much about the fate of humanity, but because he saw it as his duty to his father. I just think he poses less of a threat to people because that sense of duty to God would preclude him from wiping them out. I do agree that his attempts to paint himself as the good guy were a joke, and that Luci was at least refreshingly honest about his attitude towards people.
# eilf 2016-01-24 19:09
*grin* Yeah, sorry about that ... I get a notion and then I have to keep clarifying it. I know you don't think Michael is a good guy, you have been saying so all along!
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-24 19:24
No problem. Arguing with you keeps me on my toes! You weren't on your high school debate team, were you?:)
# eilf 2016-01-24 20:22
Heh, I wouldn't do at all well in a debate setting! I do however have all the experience of sitting in Irish pubs debating and arguing about everything and anything for hours on end. Which very much DOES keep you on your toes!
And I have a ball debating with you too :D
# Didi 2016-01-23 15:34
I agree there might be some answers in Our Little World. I also think we should seek answers in some of the recent spoilers that were released as well as some of the interviews. Too spoilery.

I think most of us figured out last week that Casifer was gonna happen. So I was really not surprised by the big reveal. Also, I remember reading an interview that Misha did several months ago where he said something to the tune of...Cas makes a deal with Lucifer because he's not feeling the love... Or something to that effect. I need to go back and find that interview to see what other tidbits he gave away. Does anyone remember the interview I'm talking about?
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-23 15:48
I'm against using interviews as the source of judjing the content of the show. Everything should be taken only from the content of the show. Interviews may be intentionally misleading, situational or subjective.
# Didi 2016-01-23 16:38
Normally, I'd agree. But the dude who runs this show has this nasty habit of obliterating cannon. Kripke cannon, Sera cannon, even his own previously established cannon. So watching previous eps as a gauge of things to come is oftentimes an excersize in futility. Of course I'm re-watching Our Little World as I type this.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-23 17:47
Can't agree more. But this episode is entitled Devil's in the Details, so I think every detail, even a minute one is relevant :) And where is the Demon Tablet, did Cas have it, or is it in the bunker? The BoD, the codex and Charlie's notes are definitely in the hands of Lucifer now.
# eilf 2016-01-23 22:14
He said Cas makes a big decision that will affect him forever because he doesn't feel loved. And that he was having some challenging acting changes. He would have been in big trouble if he had specified more than that - honestly that was too much on its own for anyone paying attention. But the spoiler clips gave most of it away several weeks ago. I had predicted it pretty much as it went down with my best case scenario being that Sam wouldn't get the blame for it.

I didn't really expect for Cas to get 'Tracy-ed' though and to then make a decision to take on Lucifer AFTER THEY WON! Sheesh. It is Charlie levels of not-really-a-hu nter-and-so-mak es-bad-decision s. I would have preferred it to be a noble decision resulting in a farewell to Cas but keeping Misha. But, hey, one out of two ain't bad as Meatloaf might say (if he only had 2 choices) ...
# Sarah 2016-01-23 17:10
I can see your point that it's very bad that the devil is currently possessing someone Sam and Dean trust implicitly, but other than the knowledge of the location of the first blade, is there anything Cass knows that the Devil doesn't? I mean, Lucifer has already been in Sam's head, so anything about his relationship with his brother, or his friends or the location of the bunker is already public knowledge. On the angel stuff, Lucifer is older than Cass, so he'll know the lore better, and as far as angelic politics go, I don't think Cass even knows who in charge of Heaven anymore. Furthermore, Lucifer still has the ability to fly, so he doesn't need to use the portal to Heaven, meaning that Castiel's knowledge of its location isn't useful either.
# spnlit 2016-01-23 16:59
Related to this discussion, I found it interesting to see that Amara sent her message and delivered Cas straight to Billie to let him in to hell. Billie did not look surprised. Is Amara already in communication with Lucifer and they hatched a plan? Is Billie in on the big plan? I have a problem with why Cas would make such an impetuous decision. Did Amara do something to Cas to make him say yes. Will Cas or Amara protect Dean? Yes, this can go anywhere.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 17:50
Related to this discussion, I found it interesting to see that Amara sent her message and delivered Cas straight to Billie to let him in to hell. Billie did not look surprised.

spnlit, this was one of the most puzzling aspects of the ep, figuring out how Billie fits into the plot. She certainly seems to be more than a run of the mill reaper. Working with Crowley makes her seem like a bit of a rogue reaper, but the fact that she DIDN'T seem surprised by Cas's appearance or by any of the goings on makes her seem almost Death-like in her omniscience. How and why would she ally with Amara? As a reaper, she is one of God's creations, so what does she gain by allying with God's enemy? I honestly cannot come up with a rationale for her to forge such an alliance. Similarly, what does she gain by allying with Luci? If he killed all the humans there would be nobody left to reap, although I guess there would be an initial boom in business as Luci decimated humanity! I can see how she could have been in communication with Luci, since reapers have access to hell, but what is her endgame? On the other hand, how did Amara know to send Cas straight to Billie? I hope that wasn't just expedient writing, and that her role in the story is clarified somewhat in the next few episodes. I admit that I think she is one of the most interesting and mysterious characters introduced in quite awhile, so I'm really curious to see how it plays out.
# spnlit 2016-01-23 18:10
On the other hand, how did Amara know to send Cas straight to Billie?
And WHY straight to Billie ? the message was for someone in hell - WHO? The only evidence I see at the moment that Billie is on the game whatever it is.... , is that she was not surprised to see Castiel AND she let him in through the door. I know we did not see her do it but she had to let him in, she was there when he arrived and she controlled the door.
# jane 2016-01-23 10:54
Nice review as always.
The high point of the episode was for me Sam staying strong, keeping faith in his brother and says "NO". He and Dean were right, the darkness is bad enough without to deal with Lucifer topside too. Meaning stupid stupid stupid decision Cass. As Sam said it took God and 4 archangels to defeat her the first time, even through Lucifer might know the how, he won't be strong enough. I am not even sure he wants to, he could very well choose to ally the darkness against God. I see nothing heroIc in Castiel here. It's just dumb, I thought he was past his pride after freeing the leviatans but guess not. Doesn't mean I didn't like it no I love when the show does that. It just brings more to the show.
But I didn't like Misha's Lucifer. I think he overplayed and I never like when an actor does that. It looked more like a parody. I hope and I am sure he will take a step down. I'd rather he creates his own Version than trying to get Marks facial expression. Sorry but he looked like a clown to me.
Mark's Lucifer is the manipulator trying to get what he wants.
Jared's Lucifer was the scary one who succeeded.
I think Misha's Lucifer should be the one happy to be free and who wants revenge on the ones who put him back in the cage meaning Sam, Dean and Crowley.
But I am very glad Misha gets a purpose back in the show because I thought Cass was done and had no more story but the tool.
# JJA 2016-01-23 12:39
Regarding Castiel -- and I am trying my best to be polite -- the writes are pathologically incapable of finding any purpose for this character. Thus, what do they do? They give Misha another character to play. Does anyone else have a problem with this?

Firstly, Mark Pellegrino's performance as Lucifer has become iconic in Supernatural fandom. JP took over the role for two episodes ("The End" and "Swan Song") and Bellamy Young for one ("Sympathy for the Devil"), but otherwise it is Mark Pellegrino that we all associate as Lucifer. The use of yet another actor for this most pivotal of characters merely dilutes the importance Lucifer has played in Sam & Dean's story. Sorry, but it does.

But more importantly, having Misha play Lucifer (rather than Castiel) just confirms that Misha's continued involvement with Supernatural is for "meta" reasons, rather than anything story-related.

And this last point is where the tragedy really is. Castiel, contrary to what the cute stats angel said, SHOULD NOT BE EXPENDABLE. Based on the number of times he's come back from the dead, his time being "God" and the great lengths the other angels went to in order to get him out of Purgatory -- there should be no doubt with ANYONE (whether Amara or a lower order angel) that Castiel has a very critical role to play in the Supernatural story.

Frankly, although Sam & Dean are the heroes on the TV screen, Castiel should be the "MacGuffin" of the show. Otherwise, why is he still around? Comic relief? It's a total waste.
# cheryl42 2016-01-23 13:27
I think the only reason that "the cute angel" said those things to Castiel (not to us the audience) was to reinforce his low self esteem at the moment. The attack dog spell threw him for a loop, almost beating Dean to death (again), not protecting Charlie and his role in releasing the Darkness has taken it's toll. Amara said what she needed to say to Cas in order for him to be more susceptible to Lucifer's offer. I can't tell if Cas was the target all along or if he was a plan B in case Sam said no. In any case Cas has once again made a misguided decision. Like Alice said (I think) there wasn't time to talk it over with Dean. Lucifer was about to get locked back up in the Cage. This was his only shot at stopping Amara and unfortunately for Cas he took it. Now we have to see what happens. Is Cas in the host with Lucifer? If so can he fight his way through like Sam did and defeat the devil? If Cas was expelled (my personal theory) and is now locked in the Cage with a drooling Michael can he rally Michael into joining the fight? Or will Cas need to be rescued by Sam and Dean (I can't wait to see how they figure out that he is not Cas anymore). At least he finally has an interesting story after so many seasons of no one knowing what to do with him. I do hope Misha tones down the exaggerated campiness and snark. It doesn't work for me.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-23 14:40
You know Cheryl, I think Cas was Plan C, or more precisely an improvisation. Plan A was to convince Sam to say Yes. Plan B was to start beating him to lure Dean to the cage and use him as a leverage to blackmail Sam into saying Yes. As for Castiel I think Amara sent him specially for Luci to use his meat suit for escape, and her message was really for him. Having seen Castiel Lucifer concocted Plan C and having guessed what Cas had been sent for was fulfilling Plan B and Plan C at the same time in the hope that one of them will pan out.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 15:10
But more importantly, having Misha play Lucifer (rather than Castiel) just confirms that Misha's continued involvement with Supernatural is for "meta" reasons, rather than anything story-related.

I think this has been true since S7. I think the primary reason they brought Cas back towards the end of S7 is because of his popularity with the fans. The show's ratings dropped in S7 (I believe) and while I'm sure much of that had to do with the Levi story line, perhaps they also felt it was due to Cas's absence. So they brought him back, but they clearly haven't known what to do with him since. And I see the difficulty, because a too-powerful Cas trumps the brothers, or at least makes them unbeatable, so they keep dreaming up ways of reducing or eliminating his powers. Unfortunately, it has made for mostly lame storylines for Cas.
# JJA 2016-01-23 23:14
Castiel doesn't have to be powerful in order to be useful. The angels in general have been largely stripped of their powers ever since the season 8 finale. You can still do a good story without angel powers.

I think they did a good job for him during seasons 8 and 9.

It started going downhill FAST during season 10. We start-off with Castiel and Hannah driving around looking for rogue angles, but that story was abruptly ended in lieu of Claire. Seriously? Point being, there is plenty they CAN do for Castiel. They just don't do it.

For example, why not address why Castiel keeps resurrecting each time he dies. That's GOLD right there, if they choose to ever deal with it.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 23:49
I actually wasn't wild about most of his story lines in S8 or S9. I liked the Cas in the Purgatory flashbacks, but for the rest of that season he lurched from wannabe hunter Cas (entertaining) to Naomi's drone Cas, who was all over the place in terms of his emotions and his attitude, to the Cas who was suckered by Metatron. You'd think the guy would have finally learned NOT TO TRUST ANOTHER ANGEL! He just seemed like such a patsy. Then in S9 I mostly liked human Cas, except for the mini-mart employee/dating ep. I thought he was great in Holy Terror and in Road Trip. But once he got the stolen grace back I felt that once again he was all over the map in terms of his goals, his strategies and his emotions. Although I did like his burgeoning friendship with Sam. I agree that the S10 Cas plot was simply awful for the most part.
And I do think that he doesn't need to be powerful in order to be useful, but the writers need to have a more coherent, longer term story line for him that keeps him within the brothers' orbit without actually having him with them all the time. The plotting for him is scattershot, and the Cas we're often seeing bears little resemblance to the Cas from the first 6 seasons. That guy seemed a lot smarter, more determined and more forceful than the much wimpier Cas we've been getting for the most part. Character development is one thing, but he's almost unrecognizable as the original Cas. I like the idea of exploring why God has taken such a special interest in him. In S5 I assumed it was merely because he was helpful to the brothers, because they never delved any further into that issue. Maybe this is the season in which they'll do that.:)
# njspnfan 2016-01-23 16:18
Nice review, Alice. Angel/vessel canon weirdness aside, I liked it more on second viewing and give it a B+. Big shout out to the visual effects and set design folks for the cage/Limbo set; the lighting was perfect; they've really gotten better at portraying hell lately.

Amara - I liked the effect of the darkness seeping out after the smiting, then it all coming back to her after she consumed Ambriel's grace. Was her weakness after sending Castiel away the after effects of the smiting, from consuming Ambriel's grace, the effects of burning a message in to Castiel and sending him away (Castiel is a special case after all, God keeps bringing him back), or, as you said, could it have been because Dean had smiting sickness. I thought it was interesting that she sent Castiel right to Billie so she must have known what was going on with Lucifer, Sam, Dean, and Crowley. I think this is the first time she consumed an angel's grace so, if God is lightness and Amara is darkness, maybe it didn't agree with her and gave her a wicked case of acid reflux. In any event, you're right, that will be significant in defeating her.

I didn't particularly care for Misha's take on Lucifer; Mark Pellegrino played him campy and over the top and got away with it because, hey, he's Mark Pellegrino. I always really like Jared's take on Lucifer in The End and Swan Song. I'll give it time to see how it plays out, though it did feel as though we were quickly force fed the reasons/justifi cation for Castiel saying yes to Lucifer. This does seem like a bit of rehash of prior seasons, though (Godstiel, Leviathan Castiel, etc.). The angels have to know that Lucifer is out of the cage, right?

Not sorry to see Rowena go but at least she was well written this episode, not campy and over the top.

Amara and Lucifer in cahoots? Not sure yet; I think Lucifer would view her as an obstacle that he needs to eliminate. It will be interesting to see which threat the show portrays as the bigger threat to humanity, or whether Amara and Lucifer team up.

Curious what the deal is with Lucifer and Crowley; I guess Lucifer warned him not to tell Sam and Dean about what's going on; can't see this staying a secret for too long, though.

Sam and Lucifer's stroll down memory lane was well done; really thought Lucifer had him sold but was glad to see Sam say no; a defining moment for him. And hey, he's faced two of his three greatest fears this season, Clowns and Lucifer, and did well. Back to your earlier point about Amara possibly being ill because Dean was ill, I wonder if that will be key to defeating her and, if so, can Sam face his biggest fear and that's losing Dean.
# PSG 2016-01-23 16:48
Yes. I think Amara was weakened by the smiting and needs a lot more than one angel to recover.

I think Cas was undone by her emotionally and desperate. Angels were made to follow archangels.

I doubt Amara and Lucifer are a team. She hates angels especially the archangels. She is a mega scorned woman and primordial deity. She's not evil.

Lucifer is evil. He hates humanity. He wanted out. He knew both Sam and Cas were easy Marks. He may think he can outsmart her. He will need to be killed.

There is canon for two angels in one body. Not only Hael but also Road Trip. CA notes he cannot possess Sam wirh Gadreel in charge. Meaning they could share Sam if Sam agreed. Therefore Crowley goes in.
# cheryl42 2016-01-23 17:40
Lucifer was (and maybe still is) the original bearer of the Mark. The Darkness had a massive impact on hell that damaged the cage. I'm betting that Amara is connected to Lucifer as well as Dean.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-23 18:30
Moreover, the only source of Luci's corruption is the Mark and what is sipping through it, that is the Darkness. So I can't imagine how Luci is evil, and Amara is not. :D
# spnlit 2016-01-23 18:38
I think Cas was undone by her emotionally and desperate. Angels were made to follow archangels.
I am not sure if angels were made to follow archangels in the SPN world but even if true Lucifer was cast out of heaven so no longer connected to be followed. Cas also knew Lucifer's history. Better archangel to follow if thinking like Cas would have been Michael. Lucifer may be lying about Michael's condition and if it is true, then it makes no sense. Michael was as fierce as Lucifer and was the one who put Lucifer in the cage the first time around. There is no reason that Lucifer is so fine and snarky and Michael is a babbling mess.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2016-01-23 19:02
I agree about Michael. I think Luci said that solely so that Sam would believe that Luci really WAS the only game in town, rather than trying to figure out a way to get Luci back in the cage and get Michael out.
# cheryl42 2016-01-23 20:27
Lucifer spent eons in the cage. Michael has only been there a few years. Maybe Lucifer was a drooling mess at first as well.
# njspnfan 2016-01-23 19:52
She is a mega scorned woman and primordial deity. She's not evil.

:):):) .... And Hitler was just a misunderstood corporal :):):)

There is canon for two angels in one body. Not only Hael but also Road Trip. CA notes he cannot possess Sam wirh Gadreel in charge. Meaning they could share Sam if Sam agreed. Therefore Crowley goes in.

Which is all good and well except for the fact that Lucifer is an archangel; it is certainly possible to handwave this in canon because Castiel is a special case and has been resurrected by God multiple times. Here's an excerpt from SuperWiki, which is by no means authoritative on such matters, but I would agree with their summation -

The relationships between archangels and their vessels can be complex. Holding an archangel is damaging to a human; Raphael's vessel Donnie was left catatonic after his possession. Lucifer's continued presence in Nick, an alternate vessel, causes the human's body to break down, as evidenced by burn-like marks on his skin. Lucifer's vessels can be strengthened with demon blood to better survive the ordeal. Despite his contempt for humanity as a whole, Lucifer showed some sympathy toward Nick, and toward Sam, his true vessel. Michael, though condescendingly , was willing to explain his position to Dean while occupying his father, and promised not to leave Dean a "drooling mess" after his service.
# strawhair 2016-01-23 19:34
Great, thoughtful review, Alice.

The comic Billie was reading was Death: The Time of Your Life, one of Neil Gaiman's Sandman spinoffs. It was definitely a shout-out, but that doesn't mean it's not also a clue.

I found some of Lucifer's dialogue a little on-the-nose, partly because almost all of it had been said before. But I did love that Sam stood up to him, resulting in his most impressive scene in quite a while.

On reflection, you're probably right that Ambriel's death, and the coldblooded way Amara did it, influenced Castiel to take Lucifer's deal. Of course it's still one of his more boneheaded decisions. And it's a long list.

I'm interested to see what Crowley does now too. He's wanted to kill Rowena for some time now, but I don't think he'll be happy that Lucifer has done so. Family is like that. He might be pissed at Castiel for making it possible, as well. The question is, what kind of tap-dancing does he do to make Luci spare his life, while keeping his options open to work against him.
# eilf 2016-01-23 22:00
Can I say that I loved seeing Misha’s take on Lucifer? He’s obviously been studying Mark Pellegrino and went for the more exaggerated aspects of Lucifer’s character. I liked it anyway. I do wonder how long we’ll be seeing “Casifer” because I hope that Misha feels up to the role. It’s definitely going to give him a new challenge! So, since we are now in Casifer territory, let’s talk this week’s token death.
Here is my theory about Misha’s take on Lucifer.
Lucifer originally was malevolent and a little cracked - that was how MP played him when Lucifer took over Nick. I think his time in hell made him that way. And original canon said he felt betrayed by his father, with current canon indicating that he was enough like a demon that he could probably cope reasonably well with Hell. All in all he spent a long, long time planning and waiting for the foreordained Apocalypse.
When we first see him convincing Nick that he should be his meatsuit he is pretty calm and quiet – we just know that he is evil because, well, he’s Lucifer!
He does lots of nasty unpleasant things trying to get the Apocalypse going but all the time we just see an evil character. He is only the sort of level of crazy of, like, Ming the Merciless.
When Jared played him in 'The End' he was showing us a character that was both frightening and maybe a little nuts. The Apocalypse was over (I think) and he had won (I think) and now he had eternity of being in charge, I felt the way Jared played him it was like if you watched this sweet smiling face for long enough at some point his lower eyelid would start to twitch and he could all of a sudden explode and blow up half the world just on general principles. Sort of sublte but only just.
Then the Winchesters win (because they’re not the … nevermind) and send Lucifer back to hell, In this last episode Lucifer said being in the cage broke Michael. But I think it broke Lucifer too. He now was back in the cage with NO ‘destiny’ - just eternity of the cage - and he went mad. Sam’s hellucifer memories show Lucifer with nothing better to do than drive Sam mad – but maybe he was just being nuts himself?
In short I think that, because he lost, he is now batshit crazy.
And that is why we have been getting Mark Pellegrino chewing scenery over the past 2 episodes. This take on Lucifer isn’t nearly as subtle as the one in season 4.
Then he gets out! He is still crazy but now he is free again – and this is the character Misha is playing. He is the Joker trying to blow up a hospital and failing (at the first attempt).
Congrats Misha, you went for it all in, and you also Mark - and I suspect we haven't seen the last of you yet. (But everyone involved in this incarnation of Lucifer needs to tone him down a bit now please? Thank you!)
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-24 06:00
That's a beautiful explanation, I like it and it's logical and ties everything together, but a little toning down in Lucifer's portrayal would be also great. :)
# sylvia37 2016-01-24 14:36
I mostly agree this time, Alice. And I'm really afraid you are going to be proven right about the second half of the season. Sam is done and now it's Dean's turn, although I would argue that Dean has had his own story going with Amara. I can't say I'm looking forward to Misha chewing scenery, but I did think he did a fair imitation of Mark. What I'm most afraid of is lots of Castiel as Mark and them ripping off previous brother scenes between he and Dean to get him back. They've pretty much given Cas most of Sam's storylines to keep him on the show, why not a repeat of Swan Song or Sacrifice? He let out the Leviathans ala Sam letting out Lucifer, he took Sam's crazy in season seven and now he's said yes to being possessed by Lucifer. what's next? sex in the back of Baby with a waitress?
# Didi 2016-01-24 15:45
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the writers remember that the Lucifer storyline is organic to Sam, so organically he would play a major role in the Casifer storyline.