Season 10 is in the books.  It’s history.  All done.  There is no more speculation to be had as to what is to come in Season 10; it’s all over.  So, did it work?  Well, to me, yes it did. 

Now, I grant you, Season 10 was not the gripping, step by step build of Season 4, each episode building upon the previous.  It didn’t carry the same suspense of Seasons 3 and 5 that held the atmosphere of tension:  would they save Dean, would they stop the apocalypse?  Frankly, the show hasn’t had a season like that since Season 5, but that’s all right, at least to me. 

[Author’s Note:  Let’s just remember a rule from writing a professor told me long ago:  You don’t have to keep telling people “In my opinion” or “That’s what I think” or “At least to me,” et cetera.  The fact that I’m writing this tells you it is my opinion and/or what I think.  Now, if I say things like “All the fandom agrees,” well then, by all means, call me out.  But from henceforth, what’s written here is my opinion, so I’ll not keep stating the obvious.  I’m trying to keep my word count down.  J  I’m sure this little grammar lesson just blew that out of the water though.)]

SPN 1643

Where was I?  Oh, right.  Season 10 worked. 

With Seasons 4 and 5, I loved each episode – well, "I Believe the Children Are Our Future" still stinks mightily, but whatever.  However, now all these years later, when I do rewatches, I find that I’ll pick and choose episodes in those seasons.  Seasons 6, 7, 8, and 9 all contain episodes I pick and choose from, but as a whole are not seasons that I enjoy.  I know the problem too.  Dean and Sam were a unit in Seasons 1, 2, and 3.  They had their squabbles, even left the other, sometimes on the side of the road, sometimes in the middle of the night, sometimes right in the middle of a discussion, but they didn’t hold season-long secrets and/or betray each other. 

Season 4 was a turning point because of the very fact that Dean went to Hell and suffered his torment for 40 years while Sam remained ‘topside.’  In his grief and desire for revenge, Sam worked with Ruby believing that he was not only getting revenge for Dean’s death, but saving people because he could remove demons without killing the host.  The whole season the brothers were on a different page because each had had such a traumatic time without the other. 

Things didn’t get much better in Season 5 as Sam struggled with guilt and Dean struggled with trust and both struggled with the possibility that they were destined to kill each other – that’s in a nutshell.  Word count, remember. 

Come Seasons 6 and 7, Sam isn’t really Sam for the first half of Season 6. As for the rest of that season and well into Season 7 he’s struggling to put himself together again, while Dean just plain struggles.  Come Season 8, Dean returns from a year in Purgatory to find Sam had left him, left hunting, but found that you can never really leave the life.  Both brothers were confused and at odds because both had lost touch with how they are together.  Sam was mostly adrift having tried to find a life outside of hunting, only to discover that his journey of self-discovery had left others expecting him to do things that he for a time wasn’t capable of doing and then, upon realizing he was expected to do things, struggled to make up for lost time.  It wasn’t until the trials, well over halfway into the season, that Sam found his focus and his purpose. 

It’s frustrating that he still felt the need to be cleansed from the demon blood – because first off, that was never his fault to begin with, and secondly, didn’t all that time in the cage burn the ‘uncleanness’ out of him?  But, no mind, for there is a theme in Supernatural of all things repeating.  At times it gets tiresome, but it is also a part of the conceit of the show.  Let’s remember, Mary made a deal to save John, John made a deal to save Dean, Dean made a deal to save Sam…and the Winchesters go round and round again.  It’s kinda their thing.

Dean spends much of Season 8 berating Sam for not hunting that year and then, when Sam does find his purpose, Dean spends the rest of the time either worrying over Sam or vacillating between supporting him and telling him he can’t do it. 

Come Season 9 things really go off the rails as we spend half the season with Sam possessed by an angel and Dean lying, lying right to his face about it.  I hate those early episodes with a passion.  I rewatched the season opener because Jim Beaver is in it.  I love Jim Beaver!  I can’t remember any of the rest of them.  The second half is marginally better but only because we get things like more of the Men of Letters with Magnus, there’s Tim Omundson’s Cain episode – epic!  Of course the final ten minutes of "Do You Believe in Miracles" I love, which brings me full circle to why Season 10 worked for me.

SPN 0092

Season 10 had the brothers working together akin to Seasons 1, 2, and 3.  Yes, there were times when they disagreed.  Yes, they even lied to each other.  Those things happened in the early seasons as well.  Sam held back his visions until "Home".  Dean knew about the nightmares, but mostly attributed them to Jess.  In Season 2, Dean held back John’s final words until mid-season as well.  Come Season 3 there were things held back such as Dean knowing Ruby couldn’t save him that she lied to get Sam to talk to her, to trust her a bit.   Season 10 was similar.

The first four episodes were their own mini-arc, find Dean, remove the demon and restore his humanity, rest up and talk about all they went through.  The fifth episode was a tribute to the fandom and stands on its own.  The next group of episodes was Dean hunting and making his way believing he could control the MoC while Sam supported him.  This is similar to Seasons 1 and 2 when Dean was the constant presence at Sam’s side.  Things came to a head though and the Mark began to reassert control.  The last half of the season was Sam’s desperation to find a cure, Dean’s desperation to exist until he couldn’t anymore and then believe, falsely, that Castiel would finish him off, and then in the end, both brothers got what they wanted:  the Mark was removed and Dean was no longer a danger to everything and everyone around him. 


Throughout the entire season, the brothers were committed to each other.  Yes there were some verbal skirmishes, and yes, there were lies.  These were lies and events similar to the early years, back when I knew the brothers were committed to each other.  That’s what I fell in love with, and all those long seasons of distrust, betrayal, cruelty to the other seem a pale echo that I can look past all while enjoying the present.

Season 10 worked. 

What comes in Season 11?  I have no idea, but as long as Sam and Dean continue to be side by side fighting the good fight, then I’m going to be happy.  I do believe this is an opportunity to return to the roots of the show:  saving people, hunting things; the family business.  After all, the Darkness is going to make a mess of all kinds of things, perhaps this will cause Dean, Sam, Castiel, and Crowley to continue their unusual relationship of sometime allies; it may be that all four main characters have a story that interweaves together.

Season 10 was rocky at points, no doubt.  I wish demon Dean had lasted longer, but I accept the milestone of a 200th episode caused the creative team to wish to celebrate by highlighting the very fandom that is part and parcel of the show’s success.  I can wish some of the urgency of the last few episodes had been sprinkled earlier and with a lighter and more experienced touch.  It’s not the first time, though.  Season 5 gave us three horsemen dealt with in the final third-ish of the season, without a hint of their presence since the second episode. 

What marks it as a success is that Sam, from beginning to end, was resolute in his desire to save Dean.  He was focused and clear the entire season.  It’s the Winchester way to save the other and count the cost later.  I don’t lay blame, whether the writers do is not for me to worry about.  I’m past the blame game in this show.  Sam will save Dean and Dean will save Sam and that, truly, is the Family Business.


As always, thanks for reading, Elle2


# JuliaG 2015-06-06 12:50
Hi, Elle2, thanks for your review.

I don't think that season 10 worked. In fact, I don't think that anything worked during Jeremy Carver's tenure as showrunner. I don't know what the brother arc was supposed to be, and I don't really understand what happened during the brother scene in the last episode.

In season 8, Sam didn't look for Dean, and I'm not sure why exactly. Is it because of the "agreement"? Did Sam really think that Dean was dead? Did he have a breakdown? What?!! And then there was season 9 and Dean had Sam possessed by an angel to save him, and I really really thought that finally the show would deal with Dean's destructive obsession to keep Sam alive at all cost, not to mention to the whole world. But, no. As it turned out, Sam did exactly the same thing during season 10. Is that the 3 year arc? That the brothers will sacrifice anything and anyone to save each other? Is that supposed to be a good thing?

So, I felt deflated after the season 10 finale. I'm a Sam girl to the core, and always sympathised greatly with him not even being able to die on his own terms. I saw how much the season 2 deal hurt him, where others only saw Dean's sacrifice, and I felt for him after the possession, given his history and issues with control. I agreed with him about not saving Dean "under the same circumstances", meaning not hurting Dean by doing something he would never want, or damming the world in the process.

And then came season 10, and not only was Sam sidelined for so much of the season, (sorry Elle, it wasn't like Dean's supporting role in seasons 1/2), but he was going to the same extremes that Dean had gone to in the past! Now, it seems that Sam has finally become as screwed up as Dean and that there's no one to root for anymore. The Apocalypse story worked for me because even though the brothers unleashed it, there was a sense of inevitability about it, that if it hadn't been Sam and Dean, it would have been two other brothers. But, because it WAS Sam and Dean, because of their extraordinary bond, their strength and courage, the worst was averted. This time, however, the Darkness was unleashed, they they're 100% to blame. There's nothing heroic about that and I want them to be heroes.

So I don't know where the show goes from there and during the last 3 years, I've lost a lot of love for the brothers. I think I'm way more attached to the actors at this point.

Sigh. Sorry for the loooong rant.
# elle2 2015-06-07 10:35
Hi, JuliaG,

No apologies for a long rant. :-) I get pretty long myself, and, hey, you stuck through and read what I wrote. ;)

I have to admit, I'm pretty attached to the actors in this show. They certainly do seem to give a lot of themselves with all the Conventions, and everyone says pretty much the same thing: J&J really listen and respect the fans. That's a pretty rare circumstance.

In regards to your other thoughts, you pose some great questions. No, I don't think it's a healthy thing that Sam and Dean will give anything and everything to save the other (admittedly, wildly paraphrased by me). I'm not even sure the show is trying to say it's good, bad, or anything. I guess, for me (there I go again, ignoring my own sayings from above about opinions) is that if Sam were allowed to die on his own terms, then the show would end. As much as its glory days and heydays of the past are certainly behind, I'm not ready for life without the Winchesters. I do wish, and heartily wished during Seasons 6 & 7, that the show wouldn't paint the consequences so drastically because they aren't ever truly going to be able to go there. Much as Sam's "wall" collapse had to be swiped away because otherwise we'd have a lead character as a mumbling, incoherent and damaged person lying strapped to a bed forever. In other words, there was just no way they (the writers) could ever actually achieve the very concept that they had constructed. I guess that's why the Mark worked better for me, it was introduced as something that could be contained, at least for a time, (as illustrated by Cain himself).

Thank you for your thoughts.
# E 2015-06-07 10:53
In other words, there was just no way they (the writers) could ever actually achieve the very concept that they had constructed.
I think that this was exactly the problem with the MoC as well. They refused to show Dean going where the story demanded. Yes, we saw a Cain that was able to contain himself for a time, a very short time in the grand scheme of things, but they also made it clear that he'd spent millennia as "the scourge of nations" "the father of murder" and showed him relapsing into what he'd been more often than not, and unstoppable force, a killing machine and totally out of control. Actually with flashbacks and details from Executioners Song we saw more of out of control Cain than we saw of rational Cain especially when he'd been reunited with the blade, something Dean has pretty good access to. It makes no sense that we wouldn't see out of control Dean given what we knew about Cain about the mark and what Cas and Sam told us repeatedly. TPTB were not willing to bring the story to its natural conclusion. They were too interested in protecting Dean's hero status to do the story justice, so it did not, could not work.
# elle2 2015-06-07 18:34
Hi, E,

It is my hope that the writers will stop painting themselves into these types of corners -- Sam's wall comes down and he'll be a blubbering mess forever, Dean has the MoC and he'll end up "killing the world" (Cas's words mostly), Leviathans will eat the world and so on. It's not possible for the show to 'actually go there' so I do hope they stop trying to go there. It's kind of like the supposed NCIS cliffhanger this season (of which I watched the final five minutes): Gibbs isn't going to die, so why leave us with him shot twice and staring into the barrel of the gun...not at all suspenseful.

I'm hopeful with the Darkness released, that will draw all four leads into a storyline that intersects throughout the season. Heaven and Hell no doubt will have reasons to fight against it right along with Sam and Dean. Should make for a more balanced story for all characters all season, I hope. Time will tell.
# E 2015-06-09 12:14
Call me a pessimist but I think that they are already following in that same impossible to live up to pattern simply in their description of THE DARKENESS!!!! as an all encompassing, all powerful destructive force that required God and all the archangels to defeat. It's too big, too impossible.

Its true that all the characters will hopefully have to unite to defeat it, but what form is THE DARKNESS!!!! going to take? How are the brother's going to function with this unbelievable threat having over their head and still solve basic, run of the mill MoW cases? The writing team will have to change the way they go about plotting the season, and after three years in the Carver reign, I don't see that happening.
# cheryl42 2015-06-06 18:30
Thank you Elle2. I agree with you on S10. Of the three (even though there was pacing problems) I think S10 was the most cohesive. I did like the trials storyline myself but the first half was very hard to watch. I actually liked the angel possession story but the aftermath of turning the blame on Sam was to say the least puzzling. I could never figure out how the victim became the criminal but the MOC had taken off and the focus went to that. The MOC started out fantastic but seemed to lose it's way a little until the finale. I was crushed by Dean dying. I mean really crushed. So the intense focus that Sam had in S10 to find and cure his brother was so satisfying. The finale while not soul crushing (no I haven't watched that scene in the diner 30 times...25 maybe tops) to me was perfect. The brothers are on a even playing field now. They have both done bad bad things. They both chose each other no matter the consequences. I loved it. Now finally after 3 seasons we have just Sam and just Dean in the Impala facing what looks like an invincible force. But hey they have taken on the impossible for 10 years now. I have complete faith. Please keep them united for the remainder of the series run.
# elle2 2015-06-07 10:44
Hi, Cheryl142,

I'm with you: Please keep them united for the remainder of the series run.

I read bits here and there that seem to indicate that both J&J appreciate it when the brothers are not fighting. As much as that can (emphasis on CAN) make good drama, a lot of times it doesn't, especially when it just seems like the same issues keep getting rehashed. I do have issues at times with things Kripke did, but there did seem a bit more of forward growth from him in regards to the brothers in that they didn't always seem to do the same thing (Lying and hiding things one season to the next).

Thanks for your thoughts!
# iamsam1013 2015-06-06 18:51
Season 10 definitely worked for me. I enjoyed it much more than season 9 because Sam and Dean seemed to finally be on the same page. I loved Sam's determination to save Dean. I definitely missed the "real" Dean, since he spent the whole season under the influence of the mark, so I am really excited for season 11 and to hopefully see the brother's matured relationship.
# elle2 2015-06-07 10:47
Hi, iamsam1013,

Much like the real Sam was missing throughout much of Season 6, certainly the first half, you are right about the real Dean being missing much of this season. I'm definitely hopeful for the reappearance of Dean in season 11, as well as Sam no longer trying to fix his brother. It would be nice for the focus to turn outward again, saving people, hunting things, the family business. Here's hoping!

Thanks for sharing!
# Bevie 2015-06-06 20:27
I agree with you too Elle, about season 10 working for me. It was the first season since 3 that the brothers were really together, even with the MoC keeping the real Dean that
we love invisible. Knowing what Sam would do to save his brother was making me love him like I used to back in season 3. Some of those seasons in between I began to doubt
he even cared anymore about Dean. So as long as they're together next season and as long as the show goes on, I'll be there loving it again like I loved seasons 1 to 3.
I love these guys more than anything!
# elle2 2015-06-07 10:51
Hi, Bevie,

I do gravitate to the earlier seasons in this show, before all the world-ending circumstances, which is a lot of why I liked this season as it focused more on the brothers being together and looking out for the other, more Sam watching out for Dean this season, true, rather than trying to avert a global disaster. I'll not speculate on what Season 11 does with the Darkness. I tend to always be wrong with my speculations anyway. Like you, as long as they're together, I'm there. That's what I fell in love with, and I still love it now.

Thanks, Bevie!
# Jen 2015-06-07 03:06
I agree with all and whether its because 10 is a round number I feel that S10 completed a very long 5 yr arch. To me SPN seems to run in 5 yr archs. S1-S5 Was the introduction to the Winchester Family, the boys Sam & Dean learning the Family business and their craft. They showed us what made the boys individuals but yet how together they can win any fight. S6 - S10 another 5 yr arch were Sam & Dean start to mature and find that the line of work they are in has serious consequences. People die family & friends die, they are truly alone in this fight. The trials and struggles start to affect them both in different ways, Sam wanting to still have that Safe ? Life, and Dean relizing that maybe there really is something other than hunting. S6- S10 Could have really broke the show if it wasn't for Jared & Jensen's amazing acting talents the writing though at times sucked was a 5 yr growing up period, a time for Sam and Dean to weed out all the insucruities and then finally find their way back to each other. Brothers on the same page back together again to fight the good fight. S11 I hope will be a more mature ?? season in the way they handle Sam & Dean and their relationship. I hope they introduce some outside characters that the boys can bond with and who will stay on the show and not get killed off. I am in for the ride and hope to see my boys back together
# elle2 2015-06-07 10:59
Hi, Jen, I like how your describe the two five-year periods. Interesting way to look at it; I hadn't done that, but you've got a good point there. Thank you.

I do feel like it has been a long way back to the beginning, in a way, where the brothers have, hopefully, come through so much distrust, pain, insecurity, and everything else, and now are on the same page to fight the good fight. Like you, I hope for some new characters to be introduced and can broaden the boys' life.

# YellowEyedSam 2015-06-07 04:12
It didn't work for me. Too much of Sam in the background. As someone said even though Season 1-5 were focused on Sam Dean never felt in the distance with nothing to do. I just hope S11 is a Sam season to make up for this.
# elle2 2015-06-07 11:03
Hi, YellowEyedSam,

Thanks for commenting. I am sorry that it didn't work for you. I do, however, understand and empathize. As someone who felt Seasons 6, 7 and much of 8 and 9 were disastrous, I know there are many who don't share my opinion and really liked and even loved those seasons. So I get where you're coming from.

I do hope Season 11 (can you believe we're looking forward to an eleventh season!?) makes up for Season 10's lack.

# Sharon 2015-06-07 06:50
I did not watch much of season 10 I simply did not like or embrace what it came the back of from season 9 . I never felt Sam had to go out and prove anything where Dean was concerned and there was not overly much focus on Sam anyway , the MOC sl was never going to be the dark story it could of been because they will not take Dean too dark as they are so willing to do with Sam it was just a nasty tattoo that got Dean angry sometimes.
# elle2 2015-06-07 11:05
Hi, Sharon,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope Season 11 has more of what you are looking for. I know all to well the disappointment. :)
# Sharon 2015-06-12 13:59
Well unless they can undo season 9 and support Sam then give me a brothers relationship that is worth something then I doubt season 11 can repair very much for me.
# E 2015-06-07 07:06
Season 10 absolutely did not work for me. I am not sure why everyone is saying that Sam and Dean were working together and on the same page this year. They weren't. They didn't agree at all about anything and they lied to each other all season long. They fought about what they should do, what they shouldn't do, hid things from each other, went behind each other's backs and were never on the same page at all. Towards the end they weren't even together in the episodes much, being separated by their separate storylines. I am not sure how any of what happened this season can be construed as the brothers on the same page. Sam wanted to save Dean and Dean didn't want to be saved, or felt he couldn't be saved and tried to stop Sam at every turn; how is that them working together? Sam become a one tick pony and nearly invisible. Dean become the sole focus, but the writers were not willing to take the story where it needed to go, so it was just a lot of caustic, abrasive Dean saying mean things and not really doing anything demonic at all in episode after episode after episode. Crowely was emasculated by his mother and Cas was as useless and superfluous as Sam. Nothing that happened this season worked for me. Not the characterizatio ns, the plot, the pacing, nothing. As a season it was the worst of Caver's reign so far IMO. At least season 8 had the trials and season 9 (which I loathed) had the possession which was really interesting. Then the aftermath of the possession came and everything went off the rails. The show did a 180 and the MoC turned everything on it's head and we got this awful slogfest that seemed to go nowhere and was never ending. I have despised Carver's tenure as show runner. He's been an utter fail for me, sacrificing character and characterizatio n for nonsensical plot points that don't work and make no sense. The execution of the MoC as a plot was the worst thing I've seen on this show, bar none making the second half of season 9 and all of season 10 a disastrous fail.
# elle2 2015-06-07 11:10
Hi, E,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to detail your views. It's a let's discuss page, and you took the time to discuss, and I am thankful.

Crowley truly was emasculated by Rowena and that was annoying. Similarly, Cas floundered for much of the season. Not sure why the storyline of rounding up the rogue angels was handled as it was. Couldn't that have been something that Cas, Sam, and Dean worked on together at times; intersecting cases that turned out to be rogue angels needing to go back to heaven? Also, what of the veil and those souls trapped there...ah, the possibilities.

Anyway, I digress. Thank you for sharing your views. I enjoyed it more than I've enjoyed the prior four seasons, but completely understand that you did not. Hopefully Season 11 works better. I waited four long years, hopefully you will not wait that long.

# SuperNatural 2015-06-07 14:02
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Most of them are really good and right at the point!
Here's my opinion:

Season 10 wasn't that bad. Okay, I had more hope about a real storyline for Sam. Not only saving Dean but really going down a dark dark road. The story never properly worked out. I hoped there would be a real fight between the brotheres not that short version like in episode 3. The whole DamonDean story was way too short (I think because of the upcomming 200th epi) I wished there was more Sam-feelings, his own story about how he feels when he was searching for his brother. His pain etc.
Than the toooooo loooong story about getting the MoC of off Dean. Some epis worked really good(young Dean, Werthers box, and the last 3 epis). But some were not that productiv. Why did we need Clair again?! The Styns were okay but too short written like we need some bad boys lets see how it works out.
The end was good although it was cut down. A small fight between the brothers than suddenly Dean decided to kill Death (hello, can you actually kill Death???) and then everything was fine? Than the classical black smoke... Come on show you can do better than that!
The brother moment was just GREAT. Like in season 8 the scene in the church. I needed a bunch of tissues to survive it. But walking out of the bar as if nothing happens... puh not Carvers best idea.
The whole Rowena story was tooo loooong, too. It works in the end but a bit boring in the beginning.
The MoC story could have been more interesting if the writers would have gone more into the story. Not only Dean being a Deamon and getting worse and affected. What about Cain and Abel? Cain was there okay but Abel (okay he's dead) was never mentioned. It's a story about brothers, right? One brother killing the other. Nothing happened while Dean had the MoC. Cain told him that he would kill his brother. But Dean never tried it, never threatened him. That would have been an interesting point to see.
Where was Castiel the whole time?! Sometimes he was too weak to help the brothers than he was too busy finding his daughter.
So I hope in season 11 there will be a Sam story line and the brothers woking together not against each other. No more lying and no more blaming. PLEASE! The last Seasons were very Dean centered it would be nice to see the other brother not only in the background.
Any chance you understand what I was trying to say?! :P
# elle2 2015-06-07 18:39
Hi, SuperNatural.

Pretty sure I got where you were trying to say. Admittedly, I've lowered my expectations, and thus I enjoyed it more. Not saying that works for everyone, or is the best way to watch the show -- but, hey, it works for me, so I'm going with it.

Like you, Rowena works in the end, but the beginning is pretty painful. Smaller, shorter arcs for some of these things would work better, as well as have the baddies appear less. Zachariah was a great bad guy, and we only ever saw him in seven episodes over two seasons. Rowena works, but could have been so much better with so much less of her.

I'm with you with your hopes for Season 11!!

Thanks for the comments.
# lala2 2015-06-08 00:16
I agree. They put the Mark of CAIN on a brother but then don't show that brother fighting an urge to kill his brother?!?!

The story would have been much more intense and interesting if we had seen Dean fighting an urge to kill Sam throughout the season or a growing hatred for Sam. I don't know. Anything would have been more interesting than the "nothing" we got when it came to this arc. I wanted to fear for Sam and worry about Dean, but I went through the season emotionless. Haha!

JMO though. YMMV.
# Sharon 2015-06-08 03:49
They wanted the MOC sl but they came up with the Supernatural version not the Biblical version. So we got karaoke demon Dean and I only kill those that deserve it MOC Dean but nothing with real bite because of the fear of taking Dean down a genuine dark road .

The fact they were talking about 'who the bigger monster' is Sam or Demon/Moc Dean showed where their mindset was in approaching the story.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-07 20:53
Hi Elle2. I guess we watch the show in very different ways because I thought almost nothing about this season worked. I thought it started off well, because I really liked the first 5-6 episodes. But then the show settled into unsympathetic Dean and invisible Sam, until the last 6 or so episodes, most of which I really liked. For the reason that E stated above, the MOC story was pretty much a complete failure. But what killed the season for me was the brothers' relationship. I honestly am mystified that people thought the brothers were "together" this season because I didn't see that at all. Throughout the entire middle of the season Sam was in the background of almost every episode except for the obligatory "we can find a cure, Dean" statement and endless variations thereof. I honestly don't think we had any comments by Sam or by anyone else relating to how Sam was doing, and how he was feeling. Until the last few episodes, he was a complete cypher except for his expressed determination to save Dean. And Dean was invisible in a different way. Yes, he was the focus of every episode (other than the first few and the last few when Sam had his own little storyline) but he wasn't DEAN, at least not the Dean I love. He was mostly grim and obsessed with the MOC. I don't think he ever expressed ANY interest in Sam the entire year. He mostly didn't seem to really care about him. One of the reasons I liked The Werther Box so much is that it was the only time this season that Dean showed any concern for Sam, when he went pelting down the stairs to rescue him. Otherwise he mostly seemed detached from Sam and from everyone else. I really love the Dean who is so protective of Sammy but that guy has been MIA for a year and a half and I want him back. The only episode where the brothers seemed mostly like their old selves was the 200th, and maybe in the Werther Box. Otherwise, the dynamic between them was completely off. It was only marginally better than the 2nd half of season 9 where they actively seemed to dislike each other. That is the only reason why I prefer this season to 9- it was just awful watching them together at the end of last year. Season 7's Leviathan story didn't work in a lot of ways but I enjoyed the season because more than any season other than 1 and 2 the brothers really got along for almost the whole season. They enjoyed each others company and the only brief rift was over the Amy issue. I don't mind when the brother's fight, it would be odd if they didn't, but I infinitely prefer that they mostly get along because that's why I watch the show. I would enjoy an episode of them painting the bunker as long as they were acting like themselves! Under Carver, the only times they really have both been themselves were the 2nd half of season 8 and the first half of season 9 (at least in the non-Gadreel scenes). Sorry to rant on for so long, but I am desperately hoping that we get the real Sam and Dean next season, the ones who work together as partners, who love each other, and who both are actively involved in the story. I'm done now, I swear!
# cheryl42 2015-06-07 21:45
It's interesting because we do see the show so differently. Ep 3 Dean is cured and until Charlie died the brothers were in each others hip pockets the whole time. In Paper Moon with Dean and Sam in the Impala was the best part of a mostly forgettable episode. Dean trying to say in Winchester speak how sorry he was. Ask Jeeves was fun. The brothers were in sync and having fun with each other. Even when MOC Dean raised it's head they were still trying to connect with each other. Fan Fiction the brother banter was so great and Dean trying to warn Sam about the Scarecrow and his panic trying to find him was vintage Dean. The amulet scene was just a perfect brother moment. GGG's with Dean talking to Cole but looking right at Sam telling Cole that the people who loved him pulled him back. And who could forget "Impala67". Also the first inkling that Sam had that Dean was giving up. I loved that Sam backed Dean's play but was ready to put a bullet into Cole if he made a move on Dean. From ES on Sam was in save Dean at all costs. IM was the beginning of Sam's road to do whatever it took to save Dean. And he was recruiting everyone he could think of to make it happen. So really for the last 10 episodes of the season were pretty much about Sam trying to come up with a solution to the MOC. He was getting more desperate and making more extreme decisions as time went on with no solution in sight. It wasn't until the BOTD that Sam started to see a possible way out for Dean. Then he really took off with the plan no matter the consequences.
Out of 23 episodes there were only 5 episodes where the brothers were at odds. And in the end they were united as just Sam and Dean. No one was possessed, demonized, dead, in hell or otherwise supernaturally occupied. I thought a very satisfactory ending to the arc. And thank god the Mark is gone. I'm not saying there weren't some clunkers (Halt and Catch Fire) but for it worked for me a lot better on re watch without interruption.
I am really curious to read the transcripts from the panel with Robbie Thompson. Alice let out a little teaser about Jared but I would really like to read more about what his views of the season were. Plus losing a writer mid season probably affected the flow a little. I thought S10 worked specially in re-watch with no mini breaks or commercials. For whatever reason that is the best way for me to watch the show. Anyway I long way around to say I think in retrospect and now knowing the challenges that the writers were facing the season came out surprisingly well.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-07 22:57
Cheryl, I agree that the brothers weren't at odds for most of the year. It's more that they didn't have the same close relationship that I love. I did like the first 6 episodes. I enjoyed the brothers' conversations in Paper Moon, and they seemed mostly like their normal selves in Fan Fiction and Ask Jeeves. But then the season went south for me. While you're right that the brothers were physically together they didn't seem to be together emotionally. From episodes 7-16 Sam went episode after episode with a very minimal role except for encouraging Dean to not give up. The most personal interaction they had was in About A Boy and adult Dean was hardly in it. I think during that whole span of 10 episodes the only insight into Sam, and his sole role, was him saying "don't give up Dean." The one exception was at the end of Ep. 10x15 (with Cole) where Sam was so mystifyingly upset that the random Khan bug victim had died. Sam had almost no personal conversations with any of the guest stars or other actors and there was no insight into how Sam was feeling(other than "must save Dean"). And during that whole time I don't think Dean addressed any really personal comments to Sam or ever expressed any concern for or interest in him (again, except when the khan bug guy died). He was completely focused on the MOC. So they were together physically but that was about it. It's not really a relationship if only one person (Sam) seems emotionally attached to the other. Things did finally change with Inside Man which is when I started enjoying the season again. Dean was still very detached from Sam (except for Werther Box) but at least Sam was finally back to being actively involved in the episodes. IM was the first episode where Sam actually DID something to try to find a cure instead of just talking about a cure. And it was from then on that we finally got Sam POV. Other than Werther Box, the only time all season when Dean looked at or treated Sam with any degree of affection or feeling was in Brothers Keeper. That was almost an entire season (more, if you include the debacle that was the end of Season 9) where Dean wasn't looking out for his Sammy. God, I miss protective big brother Dean. So that is my extremely long-winded way of clarifying why I think that the brotherly relationship was way off- sure, they weren't fighting until the last few episodes, but there was so much distance between them because MOC Dean was kind of indifferent to Sam. He wasn't mean to him, but he didn't seem to care much about him either. Jeez, I thought I was done but I kept on going. Just when you thought you were out I keep pulling you back!
PS What was Alice's teaser about Jared?
# cheryl42 2015-06-07 23:24
I guess the writers had to alter their plan for the first half because of Jared's injury. The demon Dean story was supposed to last longer (through the 200th). I think there was supposed to be more of a cat and mouse between the brothers and who knows what else had to be changed. Honestly (and this is just my opinion) I think that is why Sam was knocked out and tied up so much specially in the first half. I think Jared just was too weak to do any action shots. So in order for him to be in the scene at all and not just standing around watching the action he had to be incapacitated somehow. I think the writers hands were kind of tied. That is why I would like to hear more about the panel and what all was discussed. I am sure that Jared's injury wasn't the focus but it sounds like it did affect the show and the story. In the second half I think the story straightened out. The season still had pacing issues but again I wonder how much losing a writer mid season affected the flow. Popular writer or not that had to have had an impact.
I am just finding on a re watch with no interruptions the season really was better than on first live view. At least for me.
# st50 2015-06-13 20:11
Cheryl, I believe they could've solved that issue, or at least made it more tolerable, by making better/more regular use of Jared's stunt double while he healed. The fact that they not only made Sam seem incompetent in every fight, but reduced his dialogue to the absolute bare minimum of words (and not just for the first few episodes) leads me to believe there was far more than Jared's injury at the core of the seasons failures.

And yes, (sorry Elle2) for me, the entire season was a failure - it did not work. At all. I'd have LOVED seeing a really dark Dean. Give Jensen some really meaty scenes! He'd kill them! But nope. They went with karaoke and snarls. *eyeroll* If they couldn't/wouldn 't take Dean totally dark, then I think they really needed to work on the relationship with the brothers - milk that chemistry between Jared and Jensen. Again. Nope. Even episodes in which I enjoyed the brothers interactions left me scratching my head at the lost (ignored) opportunities - and the canon inconsistencies .

I can't even discuss the emasculation of Crowley, and the uselessness of Cas. At least they toned down Rowena and made her somewhat believable in the later episodes.

I'll take season 7, even with the Leviathan failure, over any of the Carver era seasons.
And I'm afraid THE DARKNESS!!!! will be even more cringe-worthy next season.
# cheryl42 2015-06-13 20:49
Like I said this is just my own opinion about why Jared/Sam was incapacitated so much of the first half. I don't know anything for a fact. It just seemed like the most plausible explanation. And from what I understand the J's do a lot of their own stunts. All I know is in the first several episodes it looked like a gentle breeze would knock Jared right over. All season even he looked thin and pale to me. And I am sure Alice can correct me if I am wrong but the first several episodes were altered to accommodate Jared's injuries according to Robbie Thompson. Add to that the loss of a writer half way through the season and I can see why there were some issues with pacing and continuity.
# st50 2015-06-13 21:41
That's cool.
Also just stating my opinion. I'm sure Jared's injury had a big impact on the early episodes. It was very serious, and yes, he looked thin and definitely in pain for quite some time. (I still can't stand to look at photos from that JIBCon. I'm amazed that he was able to stay and do his panels, etc, when it was obvious he was in excrutiating pain)
I just think they could've done better with the season as a whole.
# E 2015-06-14 21:26
I agree t50... Jared's shoulder shouldn't have affected his dialog at all but he was practically monosyllabic even after his shoulder healed. During Sacrifice Crowley and Sam had a riveting performance that was entirely dialog... so I am not sure why Dean and Sam's cure scenes couldn't have been similar. Certainly more in depth and more meaningful than what we got and it wouldn't have created any problem with Jared's shoulder. He was extremely underutilized this season no matter how you look at it.
# elle2 2015-06-15 12:25
Hi, st50,

You do not need to apologize for not liking S10. :) I'm cool with your opinion -- just as you have been cool with mine.

I liked the opening Demon Dean as he had not a care in the world -- something real Dean carries too heavily. So, I enjoyed his carefree ways, and there were signs of darkness with killing of that schulb and not who he was supposed to, as well as his utter lack of concern over Sam when Cole had him. I do agree with you when you say he could have gone much darker in the end. Even as he was killing lots of people -- doesn't matter they were the Stynes or the bad people that were coming for Claire, they were still human beings and killing humans used to be abhorrent (I'm watching Season 1 now and that point is really driven home), but I agree, I would have liked a darker demon and yes, Jensen would have killed those scenes.

Your points on Crowley, Cas, and Rowena are points I concur with as well. Still, I'm watching parts of S6 and 7 now via TNT and I just can't stand them in comparison. But, we watch for different things and different reasons.

I'm glad you shared your views. Thank you!
# elle2 2015-06-09 09:34
Hi, SamandDean10,

thanks for writing! You make very good points about the fact that Dean was mostly invisible in S10 because of the MoC, be it his obsession with it, and he was, and/or its control over him. What made it work so much better for me -- and no doubt I would not have felt this way had season-long lies and betrayal and the outright disgust between the brothers in S8 and 9 as well as 6, 7, and even 4 and 5 not occurred, is that the brothers definitely enjoyed each other's company more. No doubt, I've lowered my expectations, but after all the hiding and hatred of the past six or so seasons, I'm happy for them sharing the same room in some comradely fashion.

I too share your hopes for next season though: "work together as partners, who love each other, and who both are actively involved in the story." That's some good hopes right there, samanddean10!
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-09 13:04
Hi Elle2. I was curious about one thing you said. I can see your point about the brothers' relationship in 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9 even though I really liked some of those seasons, but what bothered you about their relationship in 7? That really is the one season since 2 where I thought they had a great relationship for almost the whole season. There was the one brief falling out over Amy but that was it. Unless I'm overlooking something else that happened?
# elle2 2015-06-10 17:26
Hi, samandean10,

Actually, as you've noted, Season 7 was pretty good with the brothers after the first few episodes with the Amy nonsense; however, the death of Bobby pretty much destroyed that season for me and that's basically when I went hunting for other things to watch and picked up Person of Interest and Grimm. Time After Time (or whatever the correct title is with Chronos is one of my favorites because Sam works with Jody and Dean back in time with Elliott Ness and yet they are both so in sync despite the many decades separation.
# lala2 2015-06-07 23:47
I agree w/those who feel S10 did not work. Nothing about it worked for me. IMO, each Carver season is worse than the previous one, and S10 was no exception. S10 committed the worst crime possible: it was horrifically boring. I thought the premiere was boring and lackluster, and my opinion did not waver throughout the season. I hated the brother conflict in S9, but at least that season didn't bore me to death and cause me to lose all interest in the show. Carver has managed to drive away any love I had for SPN.

The DD arc was completely pointless. Dean wasn't even a demon. He was just "Dean" at a 10. Karoke and drinking in bars? Really? Sleeping w/just one woman and basically having a relationship w/that one woman?!?! That's the best they could come up with when making Dean a demon. That's as far as they wanted to push Dean (and Jensen)?!?!?! Someone on another board told me Dean wasn't supposed to be a demon. Okay . . . if that's true, what was the point of the black eyes? Why call him a demon? What was the point of this mini-arc? What impact did it have on Dean, Sam, the show? I say it had NO IMPACT at all. It was a pointless, boring waste of time. The only scene I enjoyed of the first 3 episodes was Dean's fight w/Cole. The rest was boring. Sam's mission to save Dean from "demonhood" . . . eh . . . it didn't do much for me. He got knocked out a bit too much for my liking. Yes, I know Jared really injured his shoulder but it was still bothersome. Maybe if Dean had been a terror as a demon, I would have cared more but by keeping him basically Dean, I just couldn't get invested in that arc. And it ended too quickly . . . but since they weren't doing much w/it anyway, it needed to end. If they had actually taken chances w/Dean and had him doing some controversial stuff, then that arc could have lasted to the mid-break. I absolutely hated everything about "Fan Fiction," so I would have much preferred a better DD arc than seeing that silly episode.

After Dean was cured, there was a series of filler/pointles s episodes that meant nothing to me and that I can't even recall. I honestly can't remember most of these episodes, but I do recall Sam being knocked out quite a bit. As E (or SamandDean or both) pointed out, Sam spent most the season knocked out, in the background saying nothing and having no opinion, or continuously repeating they would find a cure for Dean. That's it. At some point during the season, I began to question why Sam/Jared was still on the show as Sam served ZERO purpose. He had the most passive (practically non-existent) support role this show has ever written. I can't recall Dean ever being written as passively as Sam was this season. Even when supporting Sam, Dean had a purpose. He had an active role. He never just stood in the back, saying nothing and having no opinion. He was always present in an active role. Here, Sam literally had no purpose. He wasn't doing anything or saying anything to Dean. In many of these episodes, Sam could have been removed completely, and nothing would have changed. Sam only got active in the story - IMO - after the episode where he "burned" the book. And wasn't that like 4 episodes before the end of the season? Prior to that, Sam was all "lip service" w/r/t the MOC and not much else.

Also during this time, a MOC influenced Dean was basically just "Dean." Just like when he was a "demon," I saw no difference btw MOC!Dean and regular Dean. Regular Dean has nightmares. Regular Dean would go on a rampage if a friend were killed. The writers never took any chances w/Dean or the MOC arc so it was all terribly boring and pointless to me. I kept waiting for Dean to do something interesting, and he never did. It was such a waste. I never cared that Dean killed those rapists and human traffickers. I didn't care when he killed the Stynes. He never did anything that got me invested in the story. When Sam was soulless, I cared about him getting his soul back. Here, I didn't really care what happened b/c Dean didn't seem all that different to me. It was never as urgent as the show made it out to be.

So, that lack of urgency impacted Sam's part of the story. Because Dean was mostly himself throughout this entire arc, all of Sam's worry and concern seemed OTT and unnecessary. If Sam is going to be making deals w/evil witches and getting ppl killed to save Dean, then shouldn't Dean actually be a threat? Shouldn't Dean be wreaking havoc on the world? Shouldn't we see why Sam has been pushed to these extremes? By showing Dean controlling the Mark and being himself, there was no tension to the story. Suffice it to say, I never saw the big deal about the Mark. Cain's and Metatron's descriptions of how Dean was supposed to be behaving while under the Mark's influence were much more interesting and intriguing than anything we actually saw Dean do. I was hoping we'd see Dean living Cain's life in reverse or see him fighting a bloodthirst and inner rage. We got nothing. So . . . . Dean was himself for the entirety of the season and Sam went from taking no real action for a long stretch of time to suddenly running around like a mad man trying to "save Dean." The pacing was all off and bad. And the lies . . . I almost forgot about the unnecessary lies. What was the point of that deception? Why did Sam lie about his research? Who cares if Dean didn't want him to do it? Sam can do what he wants. The Sam of S3 wouldn't have felt the need to lie but the Sam of S10 does?!?!? Huh? Why? That never made any sense.

Oh, and I agree w/those who didn't think Sam and Dean were all that brotherly this year. I can't recall one single good, touching moment btw the two of them. Maybe when Sam knelt down to be killed and Dean said, "Close your eyes, Sammy." That was the only nice moment the brothers this year. Sam was literally (okay . . . maybe not literally) non-existent in large portion of the episodes. I don't recall them being together a lot.

And all I have to say about Crowley and Castiel is they were both wasted. I like Misha but they clearly have no idea what to do w/Castiel. They wrote him as incredibly weak in the fight w/Dean, in the episode w/Rowena and Charlie, and in the finale. He has broken wings even though he didn't fall to Earth. I don't get their take on Castiel at all. Crowley was written as a joke all season long. He starts off the season having some inexplicable crush on DD, then he pines over DD, and then he whines about his mommy for the entirety of the season. He's the KOH?!?! I'm surprised there hasn't been a revolt. They were both stuck in boring - IMO - stories that I couldn't have cared less about.

Sorry for the long rant, but I hated this season. It goes down as the WORST season of the entire series for me.
# elle2 2015-06-09 09:23
Hi, lala2,

No need to apologize for your "long rant." That's what a discussion page is for! :) While I definitely enjoyed the season more than you did, I do appreciate you taking the time to express yourself. I know what it's like to feel the way you my Road So Far on Season 6 about midway through, that's pretty blistering on my part. I hated that season and what was done. So, while I wish you enjoyed Season 10 more, I completely empathize with where you're at. I've been there.

Thanks for writing!
# E 2015-06-09 12:28
Crowley talked to a hamster... a HAMSTER. I just about lost my freaking mind. WTF? Poor Mark, he must have read that and thought "my career will never survive this moment."
Rick D
# Rick D 2015-06-09 22:17
Elle, this may surprise you, but I mostly agree with you. I thought S10, as a whole, worked pretty well. After all, "Fan Fiction" will probably be my favorite episode of All Time! I cry everytime I watch it, and that's something for me.

Loved "The Prisoner" ep where Sam tries to kill Crowley. I LOVED Hibbing 911, and would love a Wayward Daughters spin off. "About a Boy" was great, really liked de-aged Dean. The "Thing We Carried" actually made me feel empathy for Dean. "Book of the Damned" and "The Werther Project" get high marks from me- for any flaws they had, they really got me INVOLVEd with the story again. Also really liked "Reichenback", "Paper Moon", "Hunter Games", "Executioner's Song", "Inside Man" (go Bobby!), "Book of the Damned" (gave me chills)- I didn't even think "Paint it Black" was as bad as everyone moaned about.

But then the finale left SUCH a BITTER taste in my mouth- it colors the whole thing. Here's why I was deeply disappointed in the way things went down- Why does Sam need to die? And let’s say he does- why doesn’t Dean just kill him? Why beat him down mentally and emotionally until he kneels to accept death?

Sorry, but I've had it right up to here (reaches way above head) with Dean putting Sam down- I can't take anymore!
Some have said the scene parallels Swan Song, and I wish it did. It might have, if it had gone like this. Sam enters, Dean attacks! Dean is filled with fratricidal rage from the Mark, and Sam doesn't stand a change. But just before the killing blow, Sam croaks out, "It's okay, Dean, one day you'll beat this and remember" and pulls the pics from a side pocket. This gives Dean pause and he turns and kills Death.
THAT would have been something I could cheer for!! Not "you were willing to die LASt time" or "think about someone beside yourself for once." Gosh, for some reason, I can't cheer for those.

Did the writers water down the "evil" in Dean? Maybe, but that might be for the best- we wouldn't want something that fandom would find it difficult to forgive him for, like what happened to Sam. For that matter, why did Dean suddenly change his mind at the finale? He seemed pretty convinced Sam had to go. Oh that’s right, he’s Good, even when he’s evil.

I’m starting to wonder if these writers are capable of Brothers United, although it helps that Glass is leaving.
My fondest, deepest wish is that we finally get the Winchesters working like a TEAM for a change, fighting Evil outside themselves, like heroes do. Really DON’T want to see more whiny bitching about “if you had just done what I told you. . .” bull pucky.
Otherwise, I won’t be watching next season, as I am already inclined not to do so, unless things change drastically away from soap opera scenes like the one at this finale.
# elle2 2015-06-10 17:36
Hi, Rick D,

Thanks for adding your thoughts. I'm glad there is a long list of episodes you enjoyed, even as the finale left a very bitter taste in your mouth. While I see it more of the MoC speaking than Dean himself (similar to the whole, I think it should be you up there instead of Charlie bit) I do see your point of view and frustration. I too am glad Glass is leaving because I don't think he's that good of a writer...too much on the silly stuff (like dumb cultural references that much of which these guys wouldn't know about not having Facebook, Twitter and other such social media access for context).

I also see it as more Dean echoing Sam's point of view in The Purge when he basically called Dean selfish for not letting him (Sam) die but saving him for himself (Dean) -- um, too many hims and him and himself there, sorry. I hated that and frankly was so close to giving up the show after that. In fact, the rest of Season 9 I simply DVR'd the episode and then, when I sat down to watch it, simply fast forwarded through large sections. Most of those episodes are not watchable for me even now. So I completely understand why you are angry.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :-) I similar hopes as you do for Season 11 though...TEAM, UNITED and yes, fighting evil outside of themselves. In fact, J&J have both commented that that is something they would like. How much the writers listen to them, well, I have no idea, but I can hope.
# Lilah_Kane 2015-06-10 16:21

it did work for me and also I did like the MoC arc. I do agree most part what you said. Of course I may have hoped Demon!Dean had stayed little longer just because Ackles was pretty great performing him and I also loved Sam. Every bit of him this season (Like 9 seasons before that). But he was so focused, so driven and keeping Dean up at the same time while trying to save him. And Dean holding himself together even if it was clear it was tough as hell and let's face it. The outcome of not finding a cure was Dean turning into a demon and I on my own behalf like Sam and Castiel didn't want that. Because then it would have been really bad. The threat was there and because of that threat I could imagine every little evil thing what full Demon!Dean could do as we have examples of "demons".

In short. Can't wait for the next season as this season was pretty much:

I'm tired so it is a gif day. Don't know how did I end up checking those for hour or two from google... :D

- Lilah
# elle2 2015-06-10 17:39
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Lilah_Kane,

Your comments on Sam echo my own feelings. Loved it. Love your gif too! :D
# Dan115 2015-06-10 17:25
Hi Elle2. I don't know know if I thought everything about the season worked for me but it had some pretty great moments as do all the seasons. That is what keeps me coming back.The good always far outweighs the bad for me and the performances of the J's and all the supporting players are always worth the price of admission. Kripke will always be my favorite showrunner but I have found merit and things to love in the last 5 seasons as well. Some more than others. Hopefully next year we can get back to the basic foundations of what the show is based on and eliminate the brother strife. Get back to mutual trust and being united. Thanks Elle2.
# elle2 2015-06-12 18:18
Hi, Dan115,

I'm in full-fledged agreement with what you're hoping for next year: Basic foundations and eliminate the brother strife. I think after all these bigger than life and universe shaking seasons, toning it down and coming full circle (hunting things, saving people, family business) would be a great direction for the show to head.

Like you, each season has good things in it, even the seasons that I didn't like very much had things I did like about them.

Great comments, and thanks for sharing them!
# JJA 2015-06-12 13:27
I respectfully disagree. Season 10 was a total disaster in my book. It was the worst of the 10 seasons to date, and I'm left feeling very worried for season 11. Season 7 was the second worst season, but we ended that season knowing that a new show-runner would be coming in. This time around, the same people who did season 10 will also be back for season 11, which has me quite worried.

I also disagree with your emphasis on whether Sam & Dean work as a team. Sure, we love to see it, but simply having Sam & Dean united does NOT necessarily make a good season. Also, as we saw back in season 4, the brothers NOT being on the same page can prove to be excellent storytelling. In fact, I submit that had season 10 prolonged the Demon Dean story, and Sam & Dean were antagonistic to each other for more than a mere 3 episodes, the overall product would be much better than what we got.

Season 10 featured a pointless storyline for Castiel. Sure, it started off with him and Hannah going after rogue angels, but that too (like Demon Dean) was dropped abruptly in favor of Claire Novak. Lovely young actress, but come on!! Are we really to believe that she's capable of killing a gregori angel?

Crawley's story too went nowhere. Rowena (which was at the heart of Crawley's arc this season) proved to be far too campy to be believable. Fortunately, they toned down the character by the end, making her a formidable and believable antagonist.

Also, killing Death? Where did that come from? Can you really kill Death? And what the hell is this Darkness?
# elle2 2015-06-12 18:28

I'm glad you shared -- that's what the discussion part is all about! Thank you for adding your comments. I too wished for a prolonged Demon Dean story and more cat and mouse between the brothers would have been excellent (well, at least it had potential to be excellent, again, I do doubt these writers' abilities to pull off excellent.) I also agree on Crowley and Castiel's storylines. Frankly, they wasted these fine actors.

Still, with all that, I'm far more positive about 10 than I have been any other season, but then again, I personally have changed and so what I'm looking for in this show has changed, and thus that's why the season worked better for me than others in the past.

I do appreciate your frustrations, though, having been there many a time myself in the past. Again, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Season 10. :)
# JJA 2015-06-13 11:35
In retrospect, saying season 10 was a "total disaster" was a bit strong. I ranked (and graded) each episode on a different thread here, and it seems the season had more decent to good episodes than it had bad ones. I still view it as the worst of the 10 seasons, because season 10 failed to deliver where it should have.

I should also acknowledge that just because season 10 didn't show me what I wanted or expected, does NOT mean it was a bad season. In other words, fans need to stay objective when watching the show (thus, I shouldn't view the mere 3 episodes of a Demon-Dean story as a shortfall). That being said, there were significant oversights, the most egregious being: (1) the misuse of Castiel and Crawley, and (2) rehashing the tired and cliched theme of Sam & Dean keeping secrets from each other.

Castiel has become a shallow reminder of the great character he used to be. The essence of this character is his struggle to balance being Sam & Dean's angel protector versus his loyalty to Heaven (and his celestial brothers & sisters). In more recent seasons, Castiel's been struggling with his guilt over killing-off Raphael's followers in the season 7 premier, thus killing-off half the angel population and substantially weakening Heaven. There is SO MUCH richness to work with, so why doesn't the show use it?

Crawley is the diabolical King of Hell, yet he's not as powerful as previous Kings/Queens of Hell. He didn't get to the top by sheer power, in the way Lilith or Azazel did. He got there by cunning and trickery, and thereby changed all of Hell in the process (from brimstone & Fire, to anal-retentive bureaucracy). At the same time, he maintains an alliance with Sam & Dean, thereby serving both their mutual interests. Sam & Dean both know that keeping Crawley in power is better than an alternative, such as Abadon. Again, so much to work with. Why then focus on Rowena's efforts to supplant the Grand Coven?

As for the theme of Sam & Dean keeping secrets, that's just lazy writing. Not only has been done over and over and over, but the fans are sick of. Still, the writers continue to shove it down our throats. Clearly, this exemplifies the writers just not being all that invested in the show and its characters, AND not knowing what else to do with Sam & Dean (possibly b/c they don't actually watch or like the show). Therefore, they stick to a formulaic script of finding ways to keep the boys angry at each other. I mean, they're pulling crap out of thin air to bring us right back to the same place.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.
# JJA 2015-06-13 11:43
OH, one more egregious thing that I forgot to mention: plot inconsistency. This has got to STOP !!!!

For example, Reapers are NOT Angels!! Don't pull this crap on us and expect us not to notice.

Death cannot be killed!! How do you kill death? How will this make any sense whatsoever?
# sugarhi15 2015-06-14 20:27
hey elle2. I know this is a long time coming and I don't even know if you're still reading these...but i'm going to go out on a ledge here and explain why not only this season has worked for me, but carver's entire story arc has. I tend to view things differently than most, but what I did see, for the most part, I truly enjoyed.

I don't compare seasons of old with the newer seasons. I see supernatural as a continuous story and I feel that every season has flowed into ea. other telling the Winchester story. I've often compared Supernatural with reading a get a full understanding of the story when the book is finished and it's each chapter in and of itself that gets you there. Supernatural, for me is a wonderfully long and thrilling story and ea. episode represents a chapter. Some chapters are more exciting than others, or more heartbreaking or even not so exciting at all....but the entire story itself is glorious and wonderful, touching and thought provoking....a real page turner...a book I am loving the crap out of cannot put down...a story I don't want to see end. ;)

like I said, I don't compare old seasons or show runners. I will say this, ea show runner might have put their own spin on things, but they continued to tell the story kripke started. They never veered away from the basic heart of this wonderful story being told, the relationship between Sam and Dean Winchester. What all the show runners have done is portray the brothers much the same way...two very flawed heroic brothers who love ea. other like no other we've ever seen or will likely see again. They both have issues of low self esteem, they both have shared similar experiences, they both have lost those they loved. There is a significant difference in the storytelling with Carver that hasn't been done with the others.. the boys had their personal issues since day one and they've been touched upon...but something was always missing from the boys relationship that I feel Carver has finally dealt with and I really feel has finally resolved and in thus doing so, I really do feel under Carver's tenure and especially this season, that the boy's relationship, which I always felt was lacking in this one lacking no more. Perspective. Understanding. Acceptance. :)

The boys have always loved ea. other and would die for ea. other...that's a given and it's what makes the Winchesters the Winchesters. As wonderful a relationship that they have, it was missing something so very important. It had love. It had devotion. It had fighting. ...but truly what it lacked was understanding.. .real understanding.. ..and for me, Carver gave this to the brothers...finally.

It wasn't easy. It was damn difficult. I didn't like the first half of s8. I disliked benny. I was angry at dean for half a season. I really had rewatch and reexamine to finally see what carver was doing. and I liked what carver was going...even though it was a hell of a hard pill to swallow at first. The downfall of Dean Winchester began when he returned from purgatory. He became the very monster he feared himself to be. He killed freely and without guilt...he killed with contentment and satisfaction. He became friends with a monster. He lost his humanity. When he came out, he was different and he knew it. He took his anger out on sam. He wasn't angry at sam because sam lived normal. he wasn't angry at sam for not looking because dean suffered in purgatory. imho, dean resented sam for not being there in purgatory to keep him human. he resented sam for not looking because dean was left in purgatory and found contentment there. Seeing sam again reminded dean of what he actually became in purgatory and dean was angry. He also built benny up to be a monster with humanity, otherwise dean would have to face the truth...he was a human who in essence became a monster. Dean's couldn't face what he'd become so he created this image of benny that wasn't real. Dean and benny were friends yes...but dean couldn't come to terms that he was friends with a monster, something he'd berated sam for doing not so long ago. In dean's effort to keep up that façade, he nearly destroyed his relationship with his brother. When dean pushed sam to his breaking point, and sam said benny was a deal breaker, dean realized that he had to let benny go. as we saw in the future eps, dean in his own way realized he had been in denial by the way he totally tried to make up for his behavior in the second half of the season. dean's behavior in the first half, his anger and fear was mostly at himself...and what he'd become..taking care of sam in the second half of the season, wanting sam to have normal, wanting to do the trial...that was dean's way of taking back his own humanity. His love for his brother saves him from himself....and it's this love for sam and his own self loathing and fear of what he could become without sam that drives him to possessing sam with an angel. Season 9 is the continuing story of dean's downfall...but it's also the continuing story of sam's ultimate rise....

s10 is the ultimate conclusion to dean's descent into darkness. and yet this descent into darkness ultimately ends in triumph. season 10 is the boys walking in ea. other's shoes. Throughout show's history sam has been seen as the one who was tainted with an evil within. He had a darkness inside of him that he fought every day to overcome. I think it's why sam is so empathetic and patient and kind. Why he has a way of getting people to talk and to listen. He's often the first to give the benefit of the doubt and he has unwavering faith...most especially in his brother. Dean has always been the one who had to watch his brother go through this fight, quite often assisting him in his fight as well. Dean has always felt responsible for his brother. Taking care of sam is not what he did, it was who he was. Dean needed Sam as much as Sam needs dean....Sam is dean's humanity, always has been. Sam is the wind beneath dean's wings....Dean is strong for sam...he doesn't want to disappoint sam...he's human for sam....

much the same way....dean is the wind beneath sam's wings....dean is the only person sam trusts. sam loves dean more than his own sanity...more than his own life. The last thing sam wants to do is fail/disappoint his brother. Same for Dean...back in s2 when sam died, dean believed he failed sam and thus traded his soul. in s3 sam tried to save dean but couldn't ...sam believed he failed dean and has done everything he could to make up to dean for's why sam broke in the first place in s8...he kept a promise to his brother...he believed he was doing what dean demanded of him and when dean came back different ...angry mostly at himself....dean took his misguided anger out on the one person he always has taken his anger out on...the one person he knew he could....sam... .while dean's anger wasn't really at sam, sam believed it to be so....and thus saw himself once again as a failure...espec ially when we get to the end of s9....granted sam was angry, but mostly because of his own guilt over kevin and the nightmares he couldn't shake....but dean died again, and sam wasn't there to stop it...even though it wasn't his doing....the guilt is still there.....and that flows into s10......

s10 has a relentless sam stopping at nothing to save his brother. it's a beautiful thing and I disagree that he had no storyline. Sam has been front and center this entire season, even if he wasn't literally front and center....sam's entire storyline is a continuation of s3 and his failure to stop dean from going to hell. What symmetry...a story come full circle.....clos ure....I loved every minute of Sam this season and his unending faith in his brother...right up to the moment dean kills death.....

what I loved most about this story and this season....the missing piece ....what's been missing from the boys relationship since show began.....mutua l understanding.. ...finally understanding the other's perspective... walking in ea. other's shoes.....what happened to dean....his descent to darkness has literally shown him the light....all the decisions sam has made and his reasons for them....dean finally gets it....finally sees where sam was coming from......and the same could be said for sam....he finally gets it now...he understands why dean has gone to the extremes he has...he understands why dean couldn't fail sam....much the same reason sam couldn't fail dean.....and imho, the boys relationship now has the final ingredient that I believe has strengthened their relationship... .they finally have a true understanding of ea other that they never had before.....I think it's amazing and ten years in the making and I cant' wait to see it at work next season.

so yeah,,, s10 worked for me....:D
# sugarhi15 2015-06-15 08:25
just as an afterthought... .I can't help but think that Death was a metaphor for self doubt. I still wonder if Death was even real in the first place. The whole scenario about Dean killing Sam made no sense, as if Death was telling the truth and he could send Dean to another realm, or galaxy, in all honesty, there's nothing Sam could've done to bring Dean back from that. Sam was never really a problem. So Death's condition that Dean kill Sam is ridiculous....u nless one considers that it may not have been Death at all....the only thing Sam's death would've done for sure is sate the mark and Dean would've been lost forever. He would've become Cain...which is what the mark wanted. "killing death...saved both of them".....but more than that.....I think in this case death represented self doubt and self loathing...

for most of show's history, the one thing that has always existed between the boys is their misperception of the the other because of their own self loathing and self doubt. Sam's belief that he's not pure, that he can never go on a quest like sir galahad, that he had a disease he couldn't scrub clean, and finally the fact that he couldn't save dean from hell....he viewed himself a failure and a disappointment to his brother and he believed dean saw him the same. dean has such feelings of low self esteem, everyone leaves him, even though the truth was they just died.....he saw himself a killer, and no matter how many people he saved, it couldn't erase how he felt about himself. He needed validation that sam loved him the same as he loved sam. although sam has time after time proven his love for his brother, dean just couldn't see it, he couldn't believe in it. then in one moment, a moment where sam was ready to die for dean, and never for one second giving up on dean's goodness and his faith in him....dean looked down and he finally understood...he finally believed....he finally accepted that sam did love him and believed in him...he finally got his validation....a nd in one full swoop he killed death....or what death was supposed to represent...whi ch was dean's self doubt and loathing....

they have unity...their relationship is complete now....the one obstacle that has been in their way is gone....and now their relationship is stronger, and at a level of maturity that they were heading towards but had not yet moving forward...sure they're going to butt heads....they'r e going to fight....they are brothers after all....but at least there will no longer be that self doubt or self loathing by either of them about themselves and how they see themselves....a nd they certainly don't need validation from the other regarding their love.

that's what I believe carver meant when he taking the boys relationship to a stronger, more mature level. Now that he's done it, I can't wait to see them in action in s11.....the boys against the it was always meant to be. ;)
# elle2 2015-06-15 12:54
Hi, sugarhi15,

I love reading what you write because you see beyond what I see, and that, in turn, helps me to see things better. Because of much of your writing I too can now see, almost see, what Carver is trying to do. I'm almost there, which is why S10 worked for me. And, yes, I very much see Sam as front and center all season long. It may have been repetitious -- save Dean, find a way, save Dean -- but he was utterly relentless in his efforts, and I loved it. As you say, Sam has always questioned himself, but he didn't here. Charlie died and he started to question himself except for her message that revealed that the answer was there, and that's when Sam went for -- when the answer was within his grasp. I loved Sam all season because of his consistent goal and his unwavering focus.

It just worked for me. It's also going to be the first season since 3 that I own the DVDs. I'm looking forward to watching the season unbroken and over a two-week period -- because I just can't binge it in two days...not without being snowed in and I'm firmly of the belief that here in upstate NY we won't be snowed in in early September! I HOPE! ;)

Thanks for adding your thoughts.
Barbara Maake
# Barbara Maake 2015-06-15 09:44
Sugarhi I enjoyed your comment but I actually disagree with this part:

The whole scenario about Dean killing Sam made no sense, as if Death was telling the truth and he could send Dean to another realm, or galaxy, in all honesty, there's nothing Sam could've done to bring Dean back from that. Sam was never really a problem.

I know a lot of people feel the same way you do but the history of the show is that the brothers ALWAYS find a way. They went back in time to get what they needed to stop Eve, and they used a spell to bind Death to try to force him to kill Cas. Sam could have tried either of those options again to get Death to bring Dean back from wherever he sent him. Sam is a pretty smart, ingenious guy. While there have been MANY things about the last 3 seasons that have made no sense at all, I actually found Death's stipulation that Sam must die logical. What will bother me most about the scene is if we find out that Dean really killed Death. IMO, THAT would be ridiculous and make no sense at all.