Oh, Sam what happened? What did those writers do to you?
No doubt about it, Sam Winchester is suffering from an identity crisis. Actually, he doesn’t seem to have an identity. This show has always been guilty of failing to show Sam’s emotional side since he internalizes, but it often felt like season nine didn’t even try. I think they kind of forgot Sam was there. One has to wonder where it all went wrong. Where did he lose his voice, his emotional capacity, his sympathy? Where did he end up becoming a secondary player in a show where he’s listed as a lead? Why can’t character development happen simultaneously for both brothers, not one or the other?
The last time I was real frustrated with Sam’s character development was back in season seven. I’m one of the ones that thought his season 8 role was a great push forward, even with the whole Amelia thing. He had a new lease on life and was determined to live it. Then the writers forgot all that and went their own way, decimating any progress he had made from seasons 7 to 8, and likely earlier. He gets possessed and goes from a normally intuitive and hard to fool Sam to someone who was oblivious to what was happening. Then he finds out what Dean did and behaves like a total unsympathetic jerk, and then he goes back to thinking everything is okay without truly resolving his issues from earlier in the season. He was removed from the story, serving as Castiel’s wing man in the Angel standoff and damsel in distress the rest of the time. The whole thing was very, very tough to watch.
In prior seasons, writers have taken stories to bring that withdrawn side of Sam out, to give us an idea of what’s going on in his head. In season nine, only Jeremy Carver in the two episodes he wrote decided that Sam’s POV was worthwhile. As a result, we weren’t able to connect with Sam in season nine or know what his motivations and pains truly were. There weren’t a lot of hints either and the wasted potential of what could have been with that setup is a travesty.
In going through the episodes this season, you’re going to see a lot of “could have” or “should have” from me. Just going through the basic plots you have to wonder where the writers lost total interest in grabbing those opportunities for character defining moments. Where shout-outs, cavalcade of bad guest character returns, and fan service all took priority over a main character who’s development has a vital 50% stake in this series. But that’s a moot point. We’re here for a deeper look at Sam Winchester, and deep we shall get. Warning, you may see a lot of tears and outright frustration here folks. And some primal screaming. Definitely some primal screaming.
As I go through each episode, just to keep things fun, every time Sam is unconscious, look for the special "DING” and photo. Collect them all and you’ll get angelic protection for life from ever having a head injury, because it looks like that’s what Sam got. That’s the only reasonable explanation as to why he's not a drooling mess in a wheelchair by now.
“I Think I’m Gonna Like it Here”
DING!
This is Sam’s “In My Time of Dying.” He’s in a coma and hopes of recovery are nil. While Dean explores options for survival, much like the spirit Dean in IMTOD, Sam takes a different path. He’s always been practical, so he weighs all sides. Dean is telling him to fight, but is giving him no good reason to go on other than he shouldn’t give up. Sam needs more, he needs a plan. Bobby becomes to Sam what Tessa became to Dean, the one that tells him why it’s time to move on. This Bobby appeals to Sam’s practical side, the one who’s tired of fighting and knows the consequences of cheating death.
I find Sam’s inner argument interesting, considering this is a complete 180 from “Trial and Error.” Sam was facing the front end of the trials and is determined to do the trials and live. He saw that having a real life was possible, and that outlook only changed because of how worn and broken he was from the grueling effects of the trials. It was obvious during his internal debate that he didn’t want to die, but he was waiting for Dean to give him a good reason to go on. I’m not sure I understand this, since he chose to have a normal life after Dean went to Purgatory. Is it because of the commitment to Dean made in the church? Without Dean it was time to die? Is it possible this was the personal decision he made when he went into that church with Crowley (the unaired outtake in the church between Sam and Crowley hints this was his decision, as well as his ‘So?” reaction).
I adore Sam standing up to “Dean” and telling him that dying was his choice. This was what he wanted. It’s understandable, he’s worn and tired from the trials and doesn’t have a lot of fight left, but it kind of invalidates Sam’s true persona too. While I applaud his declaration of independence and taking destiny into his own hands, I was waiting for Dean to throw back in his brother’s face (even if it wasn’t the real Dean), “What about seeing that light at the end of the tunnel?” We’re half way into the first episode of season nine and I’m already deliberating continuity. Later Sam tells Death that if he accepts dying, he doesn’t ever want to be brought back. Really? This disappointed me greatly to see that Sam’s new resolve of having a life in season eight just completely dropped and forgotten. It set any progress he made as a human being backward, as if season eight never happened. That short term recollection of character continuity ends up being a huge problem in season nine.
When the season kicks off with such a perplexing take on Sam, then no wonder the whole rest of it was just a hodge podge of whatever Sam felt like that day. It just keeps getting worse.
On a side note (and will be explored further in my overall Season Nine review), I’m disappointed that the season nine didn’t slow down to explore more stories of consequences of messing with the natural order. I wish Sam and Dean really got to see what the ramifications were for not closing the gates of Hell, mostly that it was probably a good thing they didn’t. They would have learned that bad souls destined for Hell would have been trapped with the souls that were bound for Heaven, and that would have caused catastrophic chaos in the world. You know, something cosmic and fun. As Metatron said last season, they were “pulling one of the great levers.” It was another big case of wasted potential.
“Devil May Care”
DING!
The beginning of the whole being possessed by Ezekiel (later revealed to be Gadreel) stuff. While I give huge props to Jared for flipping between characters on a dime like that, and his super bad ass decimating of the demons attacking Sam was cool, this one didn’t really do much for Sam the character. He was in the dark and didn’t have a clue what was happening.
There was an attempt to explore through Tracy Sam having to live up to his past. Her family was murdered by demons, who she said were celebrating the fact that “some dumb kid let Lucifer out of his cage.” The issue is, those demons would have probably killed Tracy’s parents even if they weren’t celebrating, so her hatred is kind of flimsy. Also, if something like that is going to be brought into a story, there needs to be some type of emotional connection between the characters and the circumstances. Would some puppy dog eyes have hurt? No relevant time was taken for any serious soul searching in Sam or any pangs of regret. It was almost like he scoffed at her and said “that was so season five” (he didn’t, but you get my point). He moved on , and so should she. Could it be that was Andrew Dabb’s message to the fans, get over it?
It’s all better though when they have that awkward exchange at the end (“You okay?” “Yeah, you?” “More or less, yeah,” “Good.”) and I had to make sure I was watching this show called “Supernatural.” That’s emotional writing? That means everything is okay? It ended up being pointless filler that could have gone toward the rest of the plot. Sure, Sam told Dean Tracy was right in the end, but then he said that he felt good, best in a long time. So was this Sam saying he’s put his past mistakes behind him? Was it a setup to show how overprotective Dean was of his brother when he told Tracy to go after the real monsters? It was almost like Dabb was working the Writing 101 checklist and thought this whole thing would satisfy the “character parallel” item.
On another side note – I’m just not sure what happened to Andrew Dabb this season. It’s almost like his writing mojo was sucked completely dry. Half hearted and disorganized plots, disregard to anything written in prior recent episodes (okay, he’s always been guilty of that), hare brained ideas (and I’m not even talking about Bloodlines), and the general quality in his writing took a massive nosedive. Almost all of his episodes (excepting “Road Trip”) made my season’s worst list. Could it be “Supernatural” is getting too stale for him? TBD.
“I’m No Angel”
DING!
Sam feels great. And he’s still utterly clueless as to what’s going on, even though he’s catching Dean in a few lies. He’s just not doing anything about it! Maybe because he keeps falling unconscious.
“Slumber Party”
DING!
I loved the “Hanging out with Sam and Dean on movie night at the MOL Bunker” feel. First, Sam isn’t accepting the MOL bunker as home. His room isn’t unpacked and it’s missing the warm touches of home (although the flat panel TV looked like settling in to me!) His issue is very understandable. He even spells out it to Dorothy for those of us that forgot, he hasn’t had too much luck with homes. One “This is close to home as we’re ever gonna get,” from Dean later and Sam comes around. He’s writing his own story now, not living in the past (get the theme here?).
In the annoyance factor, Sam again has a “Zeke slip” and again accepts Dean’s lame story that he was knocked out by the witch. He remembers Dean saying “Zeke” though. He dismisses. Sam in prior years would be beating the truth out of Dean by now. This is getting very annoying, and it’s only episode 4. Enough dragging out character arcs for entire half seasons! That should have been on my season ten list of demands. Just get on with it.
“Dog Dean Afternoon”
DING!
Sorry, I’m primal screaming now. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the episode, and I loved that Sam was blackmailed into giving a Yorkie a belly rub plus the bitch face he gave while doing that (that’s some real acting, you know Jared was loving it!) Let’s just get to the encounter with the Chef Leo. I both loved and hated this scene. It was so brilliant, the way it was shot. The acting was extraordinary and the tension was high, the way everything went down was so well done. That’s when I get to the hated it part. NOTHING came from that setup. Nothing!! What the Hell? It was brushed under the rug and never spoken of again! We finally get an arc break through scene like that and no one runs with it??? That’s why season nine struggled big time. That’s why I lost a lot of faith in this season by episode five.
But still, for those few glorious minutes. Sam finds Chef Leo, but is surprised by suddenly having his throat slashed. The way Sam is gasping for breath, he’s a goner. He’s clutching onto blood oozing from his neck and fading fast. Then Zeke takes over. He heals Sam, falls unconscious since all this healing is zapping his strength, and a perplexed, shell shocked Sam is left with a bloody neck and a healed wound, wondering what the heck just happened. Chef Leo is utterly stunned. “How the Hell did you do that?” “I want to know what you are.” Sam has no answer, so Charmelo and Snyder rip something from the every day “Supernatural” playbook. Sam is unconscious. Go figure.
Sam does wake up eventually, in an interesting parallel to the opening of “Mannequin 3” (same writers), and HE HAS NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT’S HAPPENING??? He doesn’t even ask how a fatal slashing of the throat healed itself??????? He just wonders what Chef Leo meant by “I want to know what you are”?????? GAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Primal screaming!!!! Nope, Sam drops it. It never comes up again. Just kill me.
“Heaven Can’t Wait”
I don’t know, Sam was in it. That’s all that I pretty much remember. I still wonder why he doesn’t remember his throat was slashed. I’m still wondering why he doesn’t realize an angel is in him. I still wonder why he hasn’t strung Dean up by his thumbs and demanded the truth. I still wonder why all these writers still have jobs.
“Bad Boys”
Sam didn’t know Dean was in a boy’s home? I’m not going there. Not going there. *Rumbles under breath, wonders why they got the age difference wrong** Not going there. On a plus side, Sam’s thank you for always being there and having his back is sweet, classic brotherly bonding, and gets totally erased a few episodes later. Oh, and Sam STILL doesn’t know an angel is inside of him. At least he got to remain conscious the entire episode.
“Rock and a Hard Place”
DING!
All fun aside ("Well, I guess because every woman I've...ever... had relations with, uh...it...hasn't ended well.") , the relevant scene is the ending one. The very relevant scene. Finally, some movement! Oh, and Sam is unconscious again.
Yes, he eventually wakes up (with remarkably all his brain cells in tact), and one touch from the monster should give Sam enough evidence that something is VERY VERY wrong. She pulls a similar stunt to Chef Leo, telling Sam his liver is no good and he’s being held together with “duct tape and safety pins” inside (one of my favorite expressions is duct tape and chicken wire). Sure he has to stop wondering what’s happening to save Jody, but that leads to his heartbreaking talk with Dean. Sam is growing to except that something’s wrong with him, AGAIN, and maybe he’s never going to be okay. Or, if we ran with the theme of this show, he’ll never be normal. This is enough guilt for Dean to come clean, but Zeke won’t let him. He gives Sam another lie, and Sam leaves dejected.
Poor Sam. He’s had two supernatural creatures tell him he isn’t right and he’s asking questions like “maybe it’s just me?” This is where I wonder, has Sam really been pondering all this time what could be wrong with him and we just haven’t been seeing it come out in the episodes? It this just a case of lazy writing glossing this stuff over and letting the fan believe this is happening? He’s suffering from all sort of time lapses and he knows Dean is lying. Too bad that by the time his concerns get serious, it’s too late.
“Holy Terror” and “Road Trip”
DING! Fine, I know it's really Gadreel, but it still counts!
These two episodes are essentially a two part saga, and both have Sam being under full control of Gadreel. “Holy Terror” starts things off exactly right. Sam is still questioning what the Vesta said to him, and he now realizes something is really wrong when he has another Zeke slip that lasts 50 miles! Dean should have known better. All I can say is it’s about freaking time. He is more confrontational with Dean, but Dean gives him an inexplicable “Would I lie?” line. The answer, YES! If that conversation had been allowed to go on, Sam’s answer would have been “Yes.” But that’s the trouble with a lot of these brotherly conversions, especially with Sam. They trail off into nothing…then it’s too late. Or it’s interrupted by a phone call. I would have loved a scene like in “Metamorphosis” where Sam demands Dean pull over and they hash it out by the side of the road. Of course “Zeke” would have prevented that, but that’s what fan fiction is for I guess.
Since Gadreel takes over shortly after this, Sam is gone and literally left in the dark until Crowley weirdly (and awesomely) takes possession of Sam in “Road Trip.” It’s Crowley that gets through to Sam, convinces him that he’s being possessed. When Crowley tells him to remember, his first thought goes to Gadreel killing Kevin. “Did I kill Kevin?” Sam asks, and that’s the fuel for all of Sam’s anger and feelings of betrayal for the rest of the season. Crowley sets Sam straight in time to deal with Gadreel and cast him out, which ends up being a rare moment of total Sam awesomeness ( Gee, why don’t we get a lot of these anymore?)
The most significant part of all this though is the ending scene between Dean and Sam, with Castiel close by with watchful eye since Sam is still physically weak. As I’ll cover in “A Deeper Look at Dean Winchester”, Dean’s guilt in this episode is pretty much through the roof. By the time he gets to talk to Sam on the dock, his self hatred scale is burning at a 100. Sam knows it, but he’s woozy, tired, and the realization that he was the one that killed Kevin is burning in his brain. He wasn’t ready to deal with Dean’s self loathing and vow to go it alone. He was barely dealing with what happened to him. His lashing out at Dean was rather reserved, but it still got a steely point across. “You lied to me. Again.” That was enough for him to let his brother go and not stop him.
Sam’s last words to Dean are, “But don’t go thinking that’s the problem, ‘cause it’s not.” Looking at the conversation, it’s addressing Dean’s claim that he’s poison. So if Dean isn’t poison, what does he mean? In the simplest form (and probably the right one), it was Dean’s deception that was the problem. That’s why they’re in this mess. That’s why people get killed. Again, Sam’s frame of reference is Kevin, but that’s likely what Sam was addressing. All this kind of goes back to “Appointment in Samarra,” where Dean causes the death of an innocent nurse to save a little girl. Here, he essentially traded Sam’s life for Kevin’s.
Would he have knowing the outcome? Of course not. But every time Dean messes with the natural order, there are consequences. Sam in his funk the rest of the season is dealing with one core issue, the choice was taken away from him. Because of that, someone close to him died. It’s a repeating pattern in his life, starting in the very beginning with the nursery fire that claimed his mother Mary. Something horrible happened to him because of another person’s choice. He made the choice to die. Did Dean strip that away from him? Yes and no. Sam ultimately made the choice to go with Dean, so he does shoulder some of the blame for not sticking to his resolve to die. But it was done under false pretenses. Sam took a blind leap of faith for Dean and was burned by it. What he’s not truly absorbing at this moment is its burning Dean too. Could it be that Sam sees what Dean did was a violation of their brotherly declaration at the church in “Sacrifice?” Is this Sam disapproving of Dean essentially “figuring something out” because it led to others dying? Or is Sam just being an unreasonable, selfish ass? (I think the answer is no, but some think that way).
That brings us into the second half of the season, where Sam has to wrestle with all these questions and his inner demons. Sadly, if he does, we never get to see it. We only got to see where he came out from it on the other end without really knowing the process in between. There are some clues, but some of them require real detective work and stretching of the imagination, but if you squint hard enough they’re there. I’ll do what I can to show Sam’s path from here to “Do You Believe in Miracles?” but if it looks like I’m stretching, that’s because I probably am.
I find Sam’s inner argument interesting, considering this is a complete 180 from “Trial and Error.” Sam was facing the front end of the trials and is determined to do the trials and live. He saw that having a real life was possible, and that outlook only changed because of how worn and broken he was from the grueling effects of the trials. It was obvious during his internal debate that he didn’t want to die, but he was waiting for Dean to give him a good reason to go on. I’m not sure I understand this, since he chose to have a normal life after Dean went to Purgatory. Is it because of the commitment to Dean made in the church? Without Dean it was time to die? Is it possible this was the personal decision he made when he went into that church with Crowley (the unaired outtake in the church between Sam and Crowley hints this was his decision, as well as his ‘So?” reaction).
I adore Sam standing up to “Dean” and telling him that dying was his choice. This was what he wanted. It’s understandable, he’s worn and tired from the trials and doesn’t have a lot of fight left, but it kind of invalidates Sam’s true persona too. While I applaud his declaration of independence and taking destiny into his own hands, I was waiting for Dean to throw back in his brother’s face (even if it wasn’t the real Dean), “What about seeing that light at the end of the tunnel?” We’re half way into the first episode of season nine and I’m already deliberating continuity. Later Sam tells Death that if he accepts dying, he doesn’t ever want to be brought back. Really? This disappointed me greatly to see that Sam’s new resolve of having a life in season eight just completely dropped and forgotten. It set any progress he made as a human being backward, as if season eight never happened. That short term recollection of character continuity ends up being a huge problem in season nine.
When the season kicks off with such a perplexing take on Sam, then no wonder the whole rest of it was just a hodge podge of whatever Sam felt like that day. It just keeps getting worse.
On a side note (and will be explored further in my overall Season Nine review), I’m disappointed that the season nine didn’t slow down to explore more stories of consequences of messing with the natural order. I wish Sam and Dean really got to see what the ramifications were for not closing the gates of Hell, mostly that it was probably a good thing they didn’t. They would have learned that bad souls destined for Hell would have been trapped with the souls that were bound for Heaven, and that would have caused catastrophic chaos in the world. You know, something cosmic and fun. As Metatron said last season, they were “pulling one of the great levers.” It was another big case of wasted potential.
“Devil May Care”
DING!
The beginning of the whole being possessed by Ezekiel (later revealed to be Gadreel) stuff. While I give huge props to Jared for flipping between characters on a dime like that, and his super bad ass decimating of the demons attacking Sam was cool, this one didn’t really do much for Sam the character. He was in the dark and didn’t have a clue what was happening.
There was an attempt to explore through Tracy Sam having to live up to his past. Her family was murdered by demons, who she said were celebrating the fact that “some dumb kid let Lucifer out of his cage.” The issue is, those demons would have probably killed Tracy’s parents even if they weren’t celebrating, so her hatred is kind of flimsy. Also, if something like that is going to be brought into a story, there needs to be some type of emotional connection between the characters and the circumstances. Would some puppy dog eyes have hurt? No relevant time was taken for any serious soul searching in Sam or any pangs of regret. It was almost like he scoffed at her and said “that was so season five” (he didn’t, but you get my point). He moved on , and so should she. Could it be that was Andrew Dabb’s message to the fans, get over it?
It’s all better though when they have that awkward exchange at the end (“You okay?” “Yeah, you?” “More or less, yeah,” “Good.”) and I had to make sure I was watching this show called “Supernatural.” That’s emotional writing? That means everything is okay? It ended up being pointless filler that could have gone toward the rest of the plot. Sure, Sam told Dean Tracy was right in the end, but then he said that he felt good, best in a long time. So was this Sam saying he’s put his past mistakes behind him? Was it a setup to show how overprotective Dean was of his brother when he told Tracy to go after the real monsters? It was almost like Dabb was working the Writing 101 checklist and thought this whole thing would satisfy the “character parallel” item.
On another side note – I’m just not sure what happened to Andrew Dabb this season. It’s almost like his writing mojo was sucked completely dry. Half hearted and disorganized plots, disregard to anything written in prior recent episodes (okay, he’s always been guilty of that), hare brained ideas (and I’m not even talking about Bloodlines), and the general quality in his writing took a massive nosedive. Almost all of his episodes (excepting “Road Trip”) made my season’s worst list. Could it be “Supernatural” is getting too stale for him? TBD.
“I’m No Angel”
DING!
Sam feels great. And he’s still utterly clueless as to what’s going on, even though he’s catching Dean in a few lies. He’s just not doing anything about it! Maybe because he keeps falling unconscious.
“Slumber Party”
DING!
I loved the “Hanging out with Sam and Dean on movie night at the MOL Bunker” feel. First, Sam isn’t accepting the MOL bunker as home. His room isn’t unpacked and it’s missing the warm touches of home (although the flat panel TV looked like settling in to me!) His issue is very understandable. He even spells out it to Dorothy for those of us that forgot, he hasn’t had too much luck with homes. One “This is close to home as we’re ever gonna get,” from Dean later and Sam comes around. He’s writing his own story now, not living in the past (get the theme here?).
In the annoyance factor, Sam again has a “Zeke slip” and again accepts Dean’s lame story that he was knocked out by the witch. He remembers Dean saying “Zeke” though. He dismisses. Sam in prior years would be beating the truth out of Dean by now. This is getting very annoying, and it’s only episode 4. Enough dragging out character arcs for entire half seasons! That should have been on my season ten list of demands. Just get on with it.
“Dog Dean Afternoon”
DING!
Sorry, I’m primal screaming now. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the episode, and I loved that Sam was blackmailed into giving a Yorkie a belly rub plus the bitch face he gave while doing that (that’s some real acting, you know Jared was loving it!) Let’s just get to the encounter with the Chef Leo. I both loved and hated this scene. It was so brilliant, the way it was shot. The acting was extraordinary and the tension was high, the way everything went down was so well done. That’s when I get to the hated it part. NOTHING came from that setup. Nothing!! What the Hell? It was brushed under the rug and never spoken of again! We finally get an arc break through scene like that and no one runs with it??? That’s why season nine struggled big time. That’s why I lost a lot of faith in this season by episode five.
But still, for those few glorious minutes. Sam finds Chef Leo, but is surprised by suddenly having his throat slashed. The way Sam is gasping for breath, he’s a goner. He’s clutching onto blood oozing from his neck and fading fast. Then Zeke takes over. He heals Sam, falls unconscious since all this healing is zapping his strength, and a perplexed, shell shocked Sam is left with a bloody neck and a healed wound, wondering what the heck just happened. Chef Leo is utterly stunned. “How the Hell did you do that?” “I want to know what you are.” Sam has no answer, so Charmelo and Snyder rip something from the every day “Supernatural” playbook. Sam is unconscious. Go figure.
Sam does wake up eventually, in an interesting parallel to the opening of “Mannequin 3” (same writers), and HE HAS NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT’S HAPPENING??? He doesn’t even ask how a fatal slashing of the throat healed itself??????? He just wonders what Chef Leo meant by “I want to know what you are”?????? GAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Primal screaming!!!! Nope, Sam drops it. It never comes up again. Just kill me.
“Heaven Can’t Wait”
I don’t know, Sam was in it. That’s all that I pretty much remember. I still wonder why he doesn’t remember his throat was slashed. I’m still wondering why he doesn’t realize an angel is in him. I still wonder why he hasn’t strung Dean up by his thumbs and demanded the truth. I still wonder why all these writers still have jobs.
“Bad Boys”
Sam didn’t know Dean was in a boy’s home? I’m not going there. Not going there. *Rumbles under breath, wonders why they got the age difference wrong** Not going there. On a plus side, Sam’s thank you for always being there and having his back is sweet, classic brotherly bonding, and gets totally erased a few episodes later. Oh, and Sam STILL doesn’t know an angel is inside of him. At least he got to remain conscious the entire episode.
“Rock and a Hard Place”
DING!
All fun aside ("Well, I guess because every woman I've...ever... had relations with, uh...it...hasn't ended well.") , the relevant scene is the ending one. The very relevant scene. Finally, some movement! Oh, and Sam is unconscious again.
Yes, he eventually wakes up (with remarkably all his brain cells in tact), and one touch from the monster should give Sam enough evidence that something is VERY VERY wrong. She pulls a similar stunt to Chef Leo, telling Sam his liver is no good and he’s being held together with “duct tape and safety pins” inside (one of my favorite expressions is duct tape and chicken wire). Sure he has to stop wondering what’s happening to save Jody, but that leads to his heartbreaking talk with Dean. Sam is growing to except that something’s wrong with him, AGAIN, and maybe he’s never going to be okay. Or, if we ran with the theme of this show, he’ll never be normal. This is enough guilt for Dean to come clean, but Zeke won’t let him. He gives Sam another lie, and Sam leaves dejected.
Poor Sam. He’s had two supernatural creatures tell him he isn’t right and he’s asking questions like “maybe it’s just me?” This is where I wonder, has Sam really been pondering all this time what could be wrong with him and we just haven’t been seeing it come out in the episodes? It this just a case of lazy writing glossing this stuff over and letting the fan believe this is happening? He’s suffering from all sort of time lapses and he knows Dean is lying. Too bad that by the time his concerns get serious, it’s too late.
“Holy Terror” and “Road Trip”
DING! Fine, I know it's really Gadreel, but it still counts!
These two episodes are essentially a two part saga, and both have Sam being under full control of Gadreel. “Holy Terror” starts things off exactly right. Sam is still questioning what the Vesta said to him, and he now realizes something is really wrong when he has another Zeke slip that lasts 50 miles! Dean should have known better. All I can say is it’s about freaking time. He is more confrontational with Dean, but Dean gives him an inexplicable “Would I lie?” line. The answer, YES! If that conversation had been allowed to go on, Sam’s answer would have been “Yes.” But that’s the trouble with a lot of these brotherly conversions, especially with Sam. They trail off into nothing…then it’s too late. Or it’s interrupted by a phone call. I would have loved a scene like in “Metamorphosis” where Sam demands Dean pull over and they hash it out by the side of the road. Of course “Zeke” would have prevented that, but that’s what fan fiction is for I guess.
Since Gadreel takes over shortly after this, Sam is gone and literally left in the dark until Crowley weirdly (and awesomely) takes possession of Sam in “Road Trip.” It’s Crowley that gets through to Sam, convinces him that he’s being possessed. When Crowley tells him to remember, his first thought goes to Gadreel killing Kevin. “Did I kill Kevin?” Sam asks, and that’s the fuel for all of Sam’s anger and feelings of betrayal for the rest of the season. Crowley sets Sam straight in time to deal with Gadreel and cast him out, which ends up being a rare moment of total Sam awesomeness ( Gee, why don’t we get a lot of these anymore?)
The most significant part of all this though is the ending scene between Dean and Sam, with Castiel close by with watchful eye since Sam is still physically weak. As I’ll cover in “A Deeper Look at Dean Winchester”, Dean’s guilt in this episode is pretty much through the roof. By the time he gets to talk to Sam on the dock, his self hatred scale is burning at a 100. Sam knows it, but he’s woozy, tired, and the realization that he was the one that killed Kevin is burning in his brain. He wasn’t ready to deal with Dean’s self loathing and vow to go it alone. He was barely dealing with what happened to him. His lashing out at Dean was rather reserved, but it still got a steely point across. “You lied to me. Again.” That was enough for him to let his brother go and not stop him.
Sam’s last words to Dean are, “But don’t go thinking that’s the problem, ‘cause it’s not.” Looking at the conversation, it’s addressing Dean’s claim that he’s poison. So if Dean isn’t poison, what does he mean? In the simplest form (and probably the right one), it was Dean’s deception that was the problem. That’s why they’re in this mess. That’s why people get killed. Again, Sam’s frame of reference is Kevin, but that’s likely what Sam was addressing. All this kind of goes back to “Appointment in Samarra,” where Dean causes the death of an innocent nurse to save a little girl. Here, he essentially traded Sam’s life for Kevin’s.
Would he have knowing the outcome? Of course not. But every time Dean messes with the natural order, there are consequences. Sam in his funk the rest of the season is dealing with one core issue, the choice was taken away from him. Because of that, someone close to him died. It’s a repeating pattern in his life, starting in the very beginning with the nursery fire that claimed his mother Mary. Something horrible happened to him because of another person’s choice. He made the choice to die. Did Dean strip that away from him? Yes and no. Sam ultimately made the choice to go with Dean, so he does shoulder some of the blame for not sticking to his resolve to die. But it was done under false pretenses. Sam took a blind leap of faith for Dean and was burned by it. What he’s not truly absorbing at this moment is its burning Dean too. Could it be that Sam sees what Dean did was a violation of their brotherly declaration at the church in “Sacrifice?” Is this Sam disapproving of Dean essentially “figuring something out” because it led to others dying? Or is Sam just being an unreasonable, selfish ass? (I think the answer is no, but some think that way).
That brings us into the second half of the season, where Sam has to wrestle with all these questions and his inner demons. Sadly, if he does, we never get to see it. We only got to see where he came out from it on the other end without really knowing the process in between. There are some clues, but some of them require real detective work and stretching of the imagination, but if you squint hard enough they’re there. I’ll do what I can to show Sam’s path from here to “Do You Believe in Miracles?” but if it looks like I’m stretching, that’s because I probably am.
Comments
So i'm not expecting anything from Sam in s10.
Amyh, maybe they could reset the show and have Sam come back from Hell and kill the Tulpa.
Unlike you, I didn't see the character development in season 8 (no way I can get over the jump from 7.23 Sam to 8.01 Sam, so everything that follows is trash).
After finally giving me a glimmer of hope with Sacrifice, this season just heaped on frustration after frustration.
IMO,(And I apologize for having said it repeatedly) Sam was already becoming the Samsel-in-distr ess last season. This season, it would've been more subtle if he'd worn a long dress. Don't get me started on the sidelining of a major - no, LEAD - character.
I love Dean (although I have serious issues with him being turned into a demon) but my entry into the entire series is through Sam. Without him, I am on the sidelines, watching a train wreck. Since I can't do anything more than scream for the paramedics, it is time to walk away.
I am angry. I am sad - no, I am heartbroken.
I don't think Sam was shown to be in the wrong as many people think. Maybe it is because I love Sam too but I found him to be quite sympathetic. That doesn't mean I think he was written well! I understood everything he said and why he was angry. I got a little tired of Dean choosing to not "hear" Sam but instead chose to think Sam doesn't love him despite all the evidence to the contrary. Which was a plot device I guess to drive Dean to desperation so that he could end up being a Demon. I think that may have been the initial idea. The writers "Hey, lets make Dean a demon. We haven't done that before." So everything after that was to reach that goal no matter how improbable or occ.
Anyway thanks Alice, I think you have done a vey nice job of laying out the problems with Sam's characterizatio n in recent times.
ETA: One thing I do have a problem with is people jumping to the conclusion that the PTB or writers have it in for Sam. I don't think that is true. I just think most of the current writers do not know how to write for Sam. That doesn't change my love for Sam as a character one iota.
The thing is, Dean doesn't become a demon because of anything Sam says. Dean gets the Mark of Cain in the next episode. Sam has just had needles stuck in his head, been possessed by not one but two entities with Dean's help and consent. And Dean takes off in a snit leaving Sam alone and with traces of Gadreel still inside him because Sam doesn't forgive him immediately. Now Dean didn't know about the traces of Gadreel and REALLY? REALLY? Way back in season six NOBODY mentioned that an angel leaves traces of their Grace inside a vessel? Because hey! Sam carrying a part of Lucifer around FOR REAL as opposed to an hallucination wouldn't worry anyone? Not even Castiel who was trying to stop a second go at the Apocalypse? [/rant over]
The other rant was absolutely not you. I just really hated that all of a sudden Cas (who reanimated Sam) suddenly drops the bombshell that part of an angel's grace remains in the vessel since, you know, the previous angel to possess Sam was Lucifer and why didn't anyone worry that part of Lucifer was running around topside? It was a continuity thing that bothered me the whole season.
this only makes me sympathize with sam even more than i do already.
I hope along with everyone else that Sam gets more focus next season and that Jared gets his wish.
sam has always wanted normal and safe and it's understandable after the reveal in the great escapist as to why. in all honesty, it's always been understandable. an 8 year old boy learns his mother is killed by monsters and fears that it will happen not only to him, but to his dad and dean as well and one can't fathom why this little boy would fear this kind of a life?
I've posted before the story I feel carver is telling. I believe the true monsters to be sam and dean themselves, but mostly dean's monster as it's his monster sam's feeds off of. I only wish some of you would try this experiment, to watch s8 and s9 again, but this time trying to view it as I did, with the thought in the back of your mind that carver is telling the human story of sam and dean, by having them come face to face with their issues. you may see things differently and I believe that one certainly wouldn't see sam in such a negative light, as someone who is unsympathetic. sam is the most sympathetic character on this show. if only one would really take a closer look. carver started this story arc of the boys finally being forced to face their own monsters/issues , the very thing he was part of creating. still these monsters/issues were only merely touched on and never really resolved, so when he took the helm, seems to me that instead of focusing on the seeming big bads of the arc, they were the red herrings. the real big bads are actually the boys themselves...de an's monster being the worst of it. carver wasn't even subtle about it. he wrote we need to talk about kevin and he flat out made it clear that dean was not the same anymore. sam said "i'm still the same guy dean" which dean replied "well good for you, i'm not". we saw dean become the very thing he's always feared himself to be while in purgatory. when dean was looking for cas and he was questioning that monster, the camera went on benny during that scene and even benny looked uncomfortable. dean admitted to sam that purgatory was pure, but it was the look on his face that said it all...there was a part of him that found contentment in purgatory. benny said to dean " I should've appreciated purgatory more, the way you did". the look on dean's face during that call said it all, he wasn't the same dean anymore, this was the dean from "the end". dean's inner monster ruled in purgatory and now that he's out, it's still ruling. sam asked dean if he was going to kill mama tran and he said yes without hesitation. it was Crowley...then there was a pause, a significant amount of time after, that he said, almost as an afterthought, that he would've felt bad, but what's one more. he was cold and cruel and his behavior continued to be that way for the first half of the season.
sam's crime in s8? he believed his brother died, which is perfectly understandable given that sam lost bobby, cas and his brother in the same eppy. i'm not going to go through everything sam's been through both physically and mentally up to that point, you just have to watch s5-s7 to get an idea of the condition sam was in. but show did make note in two different eps that sam was not ok. in slash fiction, levi sam went on about how unstable his vessel was and in the slice girls, the convo at the end, when sam begged dean.."just don't die". sam broke in s8 as was quite obvious in a few eps. not to mention flat out admitted to Amelia that he imploded and ran. he told dean that he thought his family was dead. we saw flashbacks of sam in an emotionally unhealthy state both when he hit the dog and again when he couldn't find Amelia. do you recall what sam said to the vet assistant? ..you have to save him. maybe the fact that sam couldn't save his own brother was weighing heavy on him. so much so that he couldn't deal with this own life. every flashback with Amelia was specifically shown from her pov, giving us a picture as to why sam was drawn to her and his need to focus on and save someone because he failed yet again to save his brother. in heartache sam asks dean a really out of the blue, weird question ...he asked dean if he thought it was painful dying in a car crash or something to that affect..i just watched it last night. I asked myself why the hell would sam ask dean that question? it came out of nowhere.... or did it? seems to be a subtle clue that perhaps, before sam hit the dog, he may very well have been trying to hurt himself. dean keeps throwing digs at sam throughout the entire eppy, making sam feel worse than he already does. so it's really no surprise that sam tells dean that dean may be better off on his own, hacking away. dean didn't really need him. as I watched the eppy and it seemingly made dean all gung ho to be back with sam, and sam less than gung ho to hunt again, I saw something deeper. dean may have been spewing the words that he wanted sam to be hunting with him again, but at the same time he spent the last three episodes revealing how disappointed he was with sam and digging at him. so what does that say ? its says to me that dean wants sam to hunt because he doesn't want to do it alone, but he's going to make sam feel like shit for a very long time, because that's how dean is feeling about himself. I imagine it says to sam the same thing, only for sam, he believes that dean truly feels this way about him and he doesn't realize that dean is deflecting his own crap onto his brother.
I've said it so many times now, how dean relates to benny, much the way sam related to Madison. benny was dean's kill buddy. they were one and the same type of monster in purgatory. their relationship wasn't based on trust. i'm not sure if it was even based on friendship. it was definitely a mutual need. they needed ea. other to get out. dean never would've gotten out if he didn't let benny inside him. dean had no true idea what benny would do once released into the real world, but at the time, I don't think dean cared. a "be good benny" doesn't give me a sense of security that benny is going to be a good little monster. and as we learn, benny wasn't good. dean kept benny from sam..why? sam wouldn't understand? please:p. sam would kill benny right out? no way, not unless sam had to. so what's the deal with dean's hypocrisy? that his monster is the exception to his own monster rule book...that they are what they are and they will kill. am I supposed to buy that it's because it was dean's friend? I don't. I think dean kept benny and sam apart because if sam had confronted benny sam would learn the truth. I believe sam would've found out about benny and dean's deal and I believe sam would've found out the truth regarding cas. that he wasn't dead. that dean last saw cas alive. that dean left purgatory without cas. and since dean got out, he hasn't even made the attempt to try to rescue him....kind of what dean's been accusing sam of doing. dean's infamous sc speech, that wasn't about sam...dean was deflecting his own issues onto his brother. alsok supports that. as I said, dean's inner monster is at play here. where dean used to keep it buried deep down under all that crap, he can't anymore. it's rearing it's ugly head and the result is dean pushing his brother away. the part of dean that believes himself a killer, the part that connects to benny, who lays claim that benny is more of a brother, perhaps because this part of dean can kill freely and without guilt when with benny, this part of him that chooses benny over sam..this is the monster that has been reining inside dean. sam, as usual, has been the one to save dean. I said it already, I think sam's ultimatum saved his brother's soul. when made to choose, dean was able to overcome the dark part of him that ruled for sometime, he was able to control it again. the idea of no sam was enough for dean to regain control. sam didn't go to Amelia. not that he ever would've. for sam, the real love of his life that he was sacrificing was normal and safe. but the dream still exists for him even if it's only a dream. don't we all have dreams that we know won't ever happen but we still hold it in our hearts? the point is that sam all through season 8, regardless of his talk of living normal one day, as if he really could, never gave up on his brother. he took all of dean's cruelty. he took it to heart. and as we see in sacrifice, sam was doing what he could to make it right to his brother, who he believed saw him as a disappointment, a failure. sam's monster of unworthiness feeding off of deans' monster.
sams spoke of leading dean to the light at the end of the tunnel and the assumption is that sam is referring a normal life. isn't it possible that sam was referring to a life where dean didn't need to feel responsible for everyone dying? or maybe sam just wanted dean to have a life that was safe. let's remember that's been the core of who sam is, sam's need/desire to live normal and safe stems from his belief that he's a freak. sam tries to escape who he is by trying to find a life away from hunting. he ran. but soon sam is able to confront the fantasy world he was living and found the strength to face reality. I think it's important to remember too that sam seemed to find a way of fitting in when he realized he was legacy to the mol. it seemed to me he was able to reconcile what he believed about himself and enable himself to feel as though he belonged somewhere. of course this doesn't take away his dream or desire to want normal, it kind of intertwines and gives him a sense of normalcy though. sam's willingness to do the trials however has more to do with atoning to his brother. sam stresses to dean about seeing the light at the end of the tunnel to make dean believe in it too. his promise is to give dean the world he desires, not the world sam does. nothing sam says in trial and error negates what sam feels in itiglih.
let's really take a look at s9. sam accepts a fate he feels he can't stop. instead of pulling what bobby pulled,{ as bobby's last words as he looked directly at sam when he said them(foreshadow ing much?), were when it's your time to go..go}, sam accepts what seems to be the inevitable. I actually thought sam behaved like a mature adult ready to accept the crap hand dealt to him, allowing himself to feel good about what he's done given his past mistakes, and proud of himself, as we see through death's eyes.. when he tells sam "well played my boy, well played." when sam chose to trust in his brother, he only exemplified once again, how when given the chance, he will always choose his brother. this has been the case since the pilot.
the speech in sacrifice has sam talking of trust and his belief that dean doesn't trust him. when dean tells sam no one came before him, as sam believed to be the case, sam for the first time believed his brother didn't see him as a failure and did in fact trust in him. he chooses to stop the trials because he believes he has what he's always wanted from his brother. his faith in him. that's more important to sam than anything, stopping the trials was really a no brainer at this point.
so where does that leave sam in s9? we all knew going in that what dean did to sam was going to bite dean in the ass. dean knew it. we knew it. we all knew dean's lying, the violation to sam's body, once again trusting in another instead of trusting in sam...it would all come down in buckets of hurt and pain. I've seen dozens of posts all agreeing that sam will be upset and has a right to be.....and then when it happens....he's an unsympathetic jerk? seriously?:o it baffles my mind how one cannot truly see what and where sam is coming from and it baffles my mind even more that one cannot sympathize and understand the hurt sam is living through..
i'm not even going to go into the sheer violation of sam's mind and body, just knowing that gad knew every secret, feeling, desire sam ever had. that at no time did sam have his own private thoughts and secrets. how many of you out there wouldn't get pissed or feel intruded upon if someone read your diary? let's even skip over the fact that dean yet again makes decisions for someone else based on what he deems to be fit and not the person's involved. (mind swiping ben and lisa for instance). let's just get into what really decimated sam....dean promised sam at that church there was no other than him. "what happens the next time you decide I can't be trusted? who are you gonna turn to instead of me? another angel? another, another vampire? do you have any idea what it feels like to watch your brother".... there it is in a nutshell. dean trusted another angel instead of his own brother...and he did that, not by the possession, because sam understands the possession. he would've been mad, but he'd have forgiven dean for the possession. it was the lies. it was dean trusting in an angel he didn't know over his own brother. if dean had told sam the truth long before kevin died, none of what came to pass would have. that's why sam questioned deans' speech at the church. that's why sam concluded that it can't be because of sam that dean does what he does, after all, dean doesn't truly trust in sam as dean said. dean just said what he said to keep sam alive not because he truly trusts in sam, but because dean doesn't want to be alone. dean's monster. his belief that he's a killer at heart. his reason that he goes to such extremes to keep sam with him. from making sam feel guilty through emotional blackmail to having him possessed. and sam is right to question dean, because he in fact hit the nail right on the head. the problem with this though is that it's only part of deans' reason...the truth of the matter is...dean loves his brother and sees him as valuable, not only to him, but to the world, but sam's monster, his feeling of unworthiness, his belief that he's tainted, unpure, his belief that he's not worthy of his brother's trust, has sam unable to see that dean truly does love him and trust him no matter what. this is the monster sam faces.
you say sam is unsympathetic? really? because the way I see it, sam has been nothing but sympathetic. let's really take a good look here. dean lied in a big big way. he hurt his brother to the point where sam feels they're broken. dean's inability to face his monster, his issues, the fact that he needs sam with him because he believes himself to be a killer, a point brought out in the beginning of s8 and which has been a running theme these last 9 years, his own fear to face himself has turned dean into quite the self centered character. instead of facing sam on that bridge and dealing with everything that's happened, dean turned tail and ran away. he claimed he was poison , but the fans and sam knew that this wasnt' the real problem. dean was the one who took it upon himself to punish himself instead of just facing his brother. because if he faced sam then he may very well would've had to come to terms with "why" ...which I can say with full confidence, I believe sam would've asked. not only does dean run from sam leaving his brother to deal with all of this alone, but when they meet up, he tries to ditch sam again. more lying. but sam stays. regardless of deans' efforts, sam stays. sam tries to tell dean that because we're family is the reason they ended up where they were. it's the excuse dean gives whenever he does something that ends ups hurting someone, actually both of them have used that excuse, as though its' a cure all. it makes it ok. sam is telling dean that it's not ok anymore. that excuse doesn't make up for the hurt it causes others. but dean doesn't listen to sam when he talks. dean just wants to bury everything and just go back to work as normal. dean disregards everything sam is feeling when he says this. so out of frustration, he tells dean that if he wants to be partners fine, but if he wants to be brothers...well dean will have work at that part. he might want to start by understanding sam's hurt. but still sam gets in that car with his brother. he's not burying things this time. this time they're going to deal with what's wrong. if sam has to bait his brother to do it, then so be it. in the purge sam showed a glimpse of hope when dean hadn't slept. his hopes were dashed of course by deans' pride. dean knew sam was trying to break him. but his monster wouldn't cede. "i don't break that easy". let's really take a look at that conversation in the purge.
dean went on about how he did the right thing and that he would do it again, the same way. that was the most egocentric dean scene of the season. he was utterly selfish and self absorbed. he blatantly disregarded sam's feelings about what he'd done to sam, but more than that, what sam had done to kevin. dean managed to make it all about himself. he was self righteous in his belief that he'd done the right thing consequences be damned. he had no regard for sam or his pain at all at this moment. it was all about dean and dean's view of the world as he sees it should be. sam is alive that's all that matters. but for the rest of the world, in sam's world and perhaps in kevin's world and in kevin's mother's world, this isn't their view. in their world, consequences do matter. other people's lives do matter. it's not about dean's view of the world only and that seems to be the point that sam was trying to make. sam was hurt and frustrated by dean's comment and he made it clear to dean that in the same circumstances, sam would've done things differently. but dean only hears that sam wouldn't save him, which isn't what he said at all.
there are complaints that sam should say more and internalize less when it comes to dean and there are times I totally agree. but given dean's history with sam, especially these last two seasons, it doesn't matter what sam says to dean, because dean only hears what he wants to hear. so what I've noticed from sam is that he speaks very loudly with his actions.
sam may have said what seems harsh to dean out of hurt and frustration, but at no time has sam left his brother's side. at no time did sam give any indication that he doesn't love his brother and will always choose to stand by him. dean has spent the last two seasons pushing sam away emotionally, but at no time did sam ever give up on his brother. sam could've easily walked away from dean last season, especially given dean's proclamation that benny was more of a brother, but sam never gave up on his relationship. no matter how much dean hurt sam, no matter how broken sam felt regarding dean's lies to him, no matter the inner conflict sam is feeling towards dean right now exacerbated by sam's guilt about killing an 18yr old kid left in their care. sam has never walked away from dean. he's never for one second stopped fighting to save their relationship. dean may misinterpret sam's words, as per the usual, but sam's actions have proven over and over that no matter what dean does to sam, sam will always love him. you will always find sam at dean's side. unsympathetic? given what dean had done to sam, given sam's hurt, given his ever present guilt about killing kevin, and still sam has nothing but love for his brother.....i'd say sam is the most sympathetic character I've ever come across.
now let me just make it known that I do like dean Winchester. I understand now the monster he's been battling. I also know that he loves his brother more than anyone else. even though his need for sam in his life and the extremes he goes to to keep sam with him are due to his own issues of self loathing and lack of trust and worth in himself, he still values sam as a person and he still believes the world and not just his world is a better place with sam in it. with that being said, it's clear to see now that dean's inner monster has taken over completely, and has now become a living entity. i'm eager to see how sam helps dean conquer it. I also look forward to the boys laying these long overdue issues they have regarding themselves and ea other to rest. I think the old dean needed to die, as this dean was a detriment to himself and at times others. I look forward to the new dean to come. the one who likes and trusts and believes in himself. the one who learns from his past mistakes and never makes the same ones again. a brother who loves his brother as an equal, who sees and treats him as an equal, who understands that his brother loves him and will choose him come hell or high water every time. I look forward to these brothers seeing worth in themselves and I look forward to the boys getting back to fighting outside monsters...beca use they will have defeated the ones on the inside.
my wish for the fandom is that see what I see when they see sam Winchester. an amazingly strong character, who has suffered through so much, yet, still never gives up fighting. a character who sympathizes with so many, most especially his brother......be cause given what dean has done to sam, given deans' inability as of yet to acknowledge sam's hurt and guilt, sam has never for one minute left his brother's side. I don't meant that literally...I mean with all the attempts at pushing sam away, sam is and will always be right there for his brother. I will always admire sam's inner strength.
I am proud and honored to be a sam fan. I am more proud and honored to be a jared fan. jared gives sam the depth the writers sometimes fail to do. I personally think the Jared's portray of sam this last season has been amazing. in order for dean to have taken the path he's taken, as this is carver's boat now, and he's steering it the way he wants to, I think jared has done an amazing job at relating sam's plight without the use of so many words to that we understand how devastating it's been for him. we truly get an understanding of sam all the while we get to see dean's downfall. it's been a really well told story so far imho. I look forward to seeing how it get's resolved. :)
I'm also perplexed over how this commentary results in a criticism of the fandom. Because I decided to share issues I had with the character development during one season? I know Sam is strong, I know he's sympathetic, I adore and love him as a character, but I didn't like what I got this season at all. There are many Sam fans that agree with me, but we aren't giving up on Sam. We know better. When I get to part two, I'm going to be very clear the only episode we got to see the real Sam, the one we know and love, is "Do You Believe in Miracles?" That's a big problem.
Also, this commentary really doesn't explore the Sam and Dean dynamic heavily. I'll get more to that in part two, but there will be more coming when I get to "A Deeper Look at Dean Winchester." It's not a comprehensive brotherly exploration, just exploring POVs of each character. So don't take anything said here to be a well rounded analysis on the brothers.
Sorry, I wish it could all be sunshine and roses, but it isn't. I haven't spoken out much during the season (keeping my frustrations to myself), but to not be honest in my traditional year end reviews would be doing them a disservice. If you aren't happy with this tone, feel free to skip them. Thank you.
These articles are meant to flesh out how the writers handled characterizatio n during a season and I will stubbornly declare, they did a despicable, piss poor job with Sam's characterizatio n this year. I remember in season seven blasting them for both Sam and Dean, so this has nothing to do with my love or another. It's calling it as I see it. So yes, feathers will be ruffled. It comes with the job description I guess.
" He gets possessed and goes from a normally intuitive and hard to fool Sam to someone who was oblivious to what was happening. Then he finds out what Dean did and behaves like a total unsympathetic jerk, and then he goes back to thinking everything is okay without truly resolving his issues from earlier in the season."
you also say: Where did he lose his voice, his emotional capacity, his sympathy?
now if i'm misunderstandin g what you're saying here, I apologize, but it appears to me that you in fact do find sam unsympathetic as well as lacking emotion. when I read this and the posts that followed it struck a nerve. I don't post these long posts to just bore the pants off of people or to point out that they are wrong. you feel what you feel. what I do try to do is offer another way of looking at things, a more positive way of looking at things so that maybe one who is disappointed may say "hey wait a minute", I see it now...it's not the negative way I was thinking at all....or perhaps like you do, you want to tell me to stick a sock in it.
"I'm also perplexed over how this commentary results in a criticism of the fandom. Because I decided to share issues I had with the character development during one season"
alice, i'm not sure what you are saying here. do you think i'm criticizing you and the fandom? please let me assure you that i'm not doing either. at least it isn't my intention. if you are referring to my comment about the fandom failing sam, then i will apologize. that may have come out not quite the way i meant it in hindsight, so for pointing that out to me, i thank you. it's just sometimes it's like, when your sports team is winning and you praise them and love them and they're the best...but when they lose and have an off season, they suck. sometimes it feels that way when i see posts regarding sam. when he's written the way he should be written there's an abundance of love, but when he's written crappy, then the love seems to be lost. :( the complaining begins. soon i find that most people wind up swimming in the pool of negativity, practically drowning in it. :( that breaks my heart to see that in the fandom, to see everyone so unhappy... I will admit that I do find it baffling at times that sam is seen in such a negative light and i guess because it's so glaringly obvious to me, i forget that other's don't see sam in the positive light that i do, no matter how crappy i think the script might be. i am totally aware that the writers treat sam like the red headed step child at times, but i also see that what is lacking in actual words on the page is not lacking with the character itself, which is why i never feel that sam is ever lacking in story. i think sam is actually the key part of this story, he's not a secondary player at all. hey, don't get me wrong, there is a lot of things i found wrong both this season and last concerning dropped stories, lack of voice, , the obvious plot devices to get us where we are...but i can't do anything about it so i'm not going to let myself get aggravated over it either.
i don't think or wish everyone to look at show as it being all lollipops and candy canes, as it hardly is. i just think that it's not always necessary to concentrate on all the wrong and it's nice to focus on what's right. i also think it's important that posts exist from people who do see things in a more positive light because the negativity that prevails is sometimes overwhelming. i always find it makes me smile personally, when i see posts from a certain few out there who always seems to outweigh the negative with the positive and always see the silver lining. they make me feel better and i'm grateful to them, so i do my part in trying to make people feel less distressed as well....pay it forward ;)
i'm happy that you aren't giving up on sam. i hope that this story arc pays off for you and the others who are finding it so distressing. but alice, as negative as you might feel, it won't stop me from reading your comments. i may not agree with all you say, but it doesn't mean i don't appreciate what you have to say either. that goes for others as well. but i will promise you this.....i won't ever stop seeing things in a positive light, and even if something pisses me off, as dean has done these last two seasons, i will always find the positive in it, i will always find a reason that makes sense for it and i will continue to pass the positive off to others in hopes to decrease their negativity and provide a more positive outlook... ;) so you might want to skip my posts in the future if my positive outlook gets on your nerves.:)
i do totally understand and agree that there are times where i wish sam would be allowed to say more, that we can hear what he's saying instead of seeing what he's saying. i don't think that sam's lack of pov is due to poor writing though. i think it was intentional because if sam were allowed to give his pov, if we'd had those moments where sam actually voiced everything that hurt him, then we most likely wouldn't have gotten dean to the point where he is now...a demon. i think we were given just enough so that we understand what's going on with sam, but they didn't give us too much because i really do feel that would've lead to the boys dealing with all their crap. because i believe the real story is about the boys inner demons/issues, i don't think show wanted that just yet...i think that's to come next season...you know i can't help but wonder, since carver was around in s3, if he's been waiting these last 6-7 years to turn dean into a demon. if the story is going the way i believe it to be....then turning dean into a demon might very well be a pretty cool way for dean to finally come face to face with his inner monster. i hold onto this and then i don't get so distressed when i long to hear sam say more about what he feels and it doesn't happen. ;)
thanks for even taking the time to read what i have to say in the first place.:) i guess the way i see it, sam acting differently then he normally would, just goes to show how truly hurt sam is and how what dean did to him cut deeper than even dean thought it would. sam told dean when he found out the truth that they were damaged. he used the word broken. i think when something is broken you can go two ways....you can throw it away or you can try to fix it. the way i see it sam spent most of the time trying to fix things, so it doesn't surprise me that he was a bit distracted from the moc. sam first noticed the mark when they both ended up at the hospital to check on garth. if you remember though, dean spent part of the eppy trying to ditch his brother and then the rest of the eppy was spent on the case. the end was where dean just wanted sam to forget everything that he'd done to him and just go back to work as usual. that left sam quite frustrated and upset which led to the whole if you want to be partners fine speech. i believe the next eppy was the purge. again, more of the same. sam tries to get dean to deal with everything, to engage, dean dismisses everything sam is feeling and gives him the self righteous riot act that he did the right thing and he'd do it all again. again, we get a very hurt sam. a very frustrated sam. not even kevin's death had dean see where he went wrong. his egocentric view of how things should be, disregarding sam's feelings of hurt and guilt. so i'd say sam was a bit distracted once again. sam has been spending quite alot of his time fighting to save his relationship with his brother, in all honesty, i forgot about the stupid moc. i'd say sam's frustration, hurt, guilt and his constant fight to get his brother to deal with all that's happened was more his focus. dean being standoffish with sam isn't anything new to sam so it's not like it was a red flag. it wasn't until sam saw the blade in dean's hand that he became aware that the blade was trouble. his focus seemed to be more on keeping dean from the blade. i do admit sam asking cas if dean was acting different was stupid...who even wrote that? sam at this point had noticed that dean was changing, but he seemed to focus more on the blade..i got the impression that he thought the blade was what changed dean. then the rest of the time sam spent keeping his eye on his brother.....
to be honest, i thought it was cas who should've elaborated more on the moc. he's the angel after all, he's the one who should've provided moc info when he saw that dean had it on his arm.
so i have to disagree that sam isn't being tenacious or observant or caring or smart. he was tenacious, he was just tenacious about saving his relationship with his brother. he was caring as he displayed his love for his brother in every eppy, even the ones that he was clearly frustrated and hurt in. he totally noticed his brother's behaviour once the blade was in his hand,,prior to that, dean's behaviour was par for the course. sam is smart, smarter than he's given credit for...it's his smarts, his tenacity and his caring that will save his brother's life. ;)
hey, that's just me:)
i know that we didn't get informed of the nightmares til the last eppy, but i have to say that i had already assumed he'd be having nightmares. i mean it would explain how sometimes sam seemed ok and then sometimes he was upset again. something would've had to have happened to have him seemingly flip flop. that's when i assumed that he probably would get flashbacks. sam's confession only confirmed what i already thought. but then again, i agree that it would've been a treat to learn earlier on...but learning when we did, makes sense to me too....so i guess i was ok with it. ;)
For me if they had shown the effects on Sam either before Dean got the Mark and after he got the Mark and then Dean got guilty it would have been because of what he did to Sam AND THE AFTERAFFECTS of it then it would have made up a lot for balancing a lot of what was shown regarding what Dean did to Sam and the after affects to Dean.But as it stood then it was because Kevin was killed but not because of what he did to Sam.
I know Dean would be guilty the minute he agreed to faux azekiels idea.So why show it.I assume that Dean will be guilty.It has been 8 seasons of Dean feeling guilty.The presentation has been skewed,there is no going around that fact as there is no reason for them to not have shown Sam having nightmares.
Quote:Were you 100% sure that Sam was having nightmares before he told he was having nightmares?
I am sorry if i am coming on too strong below..but it is not against you I write this but against tptb.
I am frustrated and have lost every last shred of belief I had about tptb because of Sam confessing he had nightmares,the timing of the confession,The silence from tptb about this till then and cutting of Jared's scenes.
Your comment earlier illustrates the reason I am so.I have to assume when it comes to Sam
Well you assumed that Sam was having Dreams ,visions or whatever the heck he was having..I did not...many of us did not.Can you really say that when Sam was acting..."flip flopping" as you say ..you thought..."hmm, Sam is acting like this because he wakes up from dreams of having Kevin's blood on his hand"..because I did not.Not till Sam told Dean.In that hasty tacked on farce of a dialogue.
Maybe I will change my stance after some months..but as of now If they kill Sam the first minute into s10 I will be happy as I will not have to see his character be butchered.
I know Jared is a good actor, but he also needs dialogue. All actors do. The reason Dean gets as much sympathy as he does is b/c Jensen is given dialogue and a POV. That's what Jared needs as well.
I do think a lot of the dismissal of Sam's POV was directly in service to Dean taking the MOC. I don't think it was to show us why Dean took it. After all, Dean took the Mark before Sam had a chance to say or do much other than "what the Hell, you tricked me into saying yes to an angel?" For all the "unsympathetic" (I didn't find him unsympathetic, but the writing did NOT give Sam a clear sympathetic POV) things Sam said, Dean went off half cocked before Sam ever said them. However, highlighting Sam's refusal to forgive Dean (who hasn't even said sorry) has fandom remembering the "pain" Dean felt and using that as why he became a demon. The issue is complicated by the fact that Sam has no one to talk to except Dean. From his past experience with Ruby, Sam knew that saying you're bad, you've changed and not in a good way was of absolutely no help. What could he say to Dean? The last time Dean did something crazy to deal with the pain (selling his soul), Dean defended his actions with I have the right to be selfish, never speak of it again. Dean is already hunkered down with I'd do it again about Gadreel, so confronting him on the Mark is useless. Kevin is dead. Jody had other concerns. Cas is all Dean does what he does because he trusts the wrong people; again, not an argument that was accepted with Ruby for Sam, but this seems to make everything square in Dean world. Cas finds out, says not a good thing and then doesn't elaborate. So Sam can't discuss whatever he may or may not be doing about researching the MOC. Who is he going to talk to about it?
My big concern is that the lack of Sam POV is so that no matter WHAT Dean does as a demon, he won't be blamed. There will be no killing a nurse to save the world moment for Dean. He will do nothing unforgivable because he won't be himself. It will all be Sam's fault AGAIN for not being a "good enough" brother. This would have been undercut if Sam's understandable feelings of violation had been explored in ANY way. Sam's body was used against his will, not only to kill Kevin but to kill 2 other angels and their vessels. Heck Sam's body was used to do who knows what without his consent. As nappi pointed out, Gadreel had access and USED every memory that Sam had. He rooted around inside Sam's head to know all of Sam's feelings. Sam has been possessed by Lucifer and Meg as well as Crowley and Gadreel. He was unpossessed of his own soul. He should have some very intense feelings about the constant lack of agency over his own body. But NONE of that gets explored because, God Forbid! it might make Dean look BAD as opposed to hurt and misunderstood and completely deserving of sympathy and unasked for forgiveness. I'm really very afraid that we are going to end up with Sam being the bad guy next year again, because the show refuses to spotlight Dean's bad actions and is forever excusing and explaining them, while Sam's actions all are seen in the context of how they hurt Dean.
Sam has to be silent because Dean has to reach a point to become a demon.Still does not make sense.sorry.
The thing is if they want Sam and Dean to DEAL with their Demons next season well and good.Go ahead.But to not allow Sam to VOICE his issues ...is skewed presentation.Wr iters are to blame for this.
Quote:As if it was not already apparent.Quote:Don't you know, Dean is trusting...but Sam...who cares?Dean is trusting.Quote:Do not expect anything less.Kevin is just so well adjusted.Wait..maybe Kevin wanted to die.Quote:Wait Charlie read the books.She knows who saved the world.Quote:Well good ole garth.
Quote:I screamed once with Alice and ya, did not alleviate anything.
Wait we forgot about how everyone Sam sleeps with dies sooo unlucky.Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Another thing that's bothered me; Dean's attitude later in the season when he said "I'd do it again." That attitude and the strength with which he said it does not gel with his running away from Sam and the situation in Road Trip. If he felt bad enough to run away and to punish himself by taking the Mark, that means that he must have felt what he did was wrong. But then, just a few episodes later Dean is defending his actions, telling Sam "I saved your life, and I'd do it again, and so would you." Well, if he believed that, then why run away in the first place? His attitude from one episode to another didn't track logically and his change in mindset from 'I can't face you or what I've done' to 'I'm right and I'd do it again' is not explained properly making Dean's acceptance of the Mark (and to kill Abbadon no less, why did he feel compelled to kill Abbadon again?) look even more stupid.
Dean is a damaged person whose life has spun out of control. His role model was John "never admit you made a mistake" Winchester. In the early seasons Dean was working his way out of that mindset, but trauma and emotional pressure can make the best of us backslide. I think Dean is falling back on patterns he learned from John to try and deal with a "recalcitrant" Sam. It is how John reacted to Sam and now Dean is struggling and grasping at the behavior he saw so many years ago, IMHO.
I really see the "I'd do it again" as being how Dean reacts when backed into a corner. He doubles down on his decision because it's really hard for him to examine some of his decisions. Just as much of Dean's sense of self is wrapped up in taking care of Sam, it is also wrapped up in believing he makes the "right" decisions. So leaving before Sam could really get mad at him and then using the time to decide that letting Gadreel in was the right thing to do does fit for me.
Maybe, if Dean had stayed and they had discussed things they would have ended up having a fight about it and maybe in that fight some home truths and some POV (particularly for Sam) might have shown through? How is that worse then what we got? Dean running off to punish himself and Sam's never ending silence? Dramatically speaking a confrontation is better than a non-confrontati on, so I am not sure why TPTB are avoiding it like the plague, unless the answer is that dialog of that sort is difficult to write and takes work, and many of the current crop of writers are just not up to it. Also if the boys talk and some ground is gained, then the next writer to offer an episode has to keep track of those gains to maintain continuity; can't have that kind of conundrum now can we, it's best to keep the characters apart and essentially mute to make the writing easier. This whole style of non-writing just really bugs the crap out of me; its just not good drama to stagnate your characters for so long. There must be some forward movement, some insight, otherwise it appears that the characters are being self indulgent or wallowing, which is how Dean is coming across to me at the moment; or they appear unsympathetic, which is the trouble I am having with Sam. Just because the situation is discussed by the characters doesn't mean it's resolved necessarily. There is a huge disconnect going on here. The writers have equated the brothers talking, even a single conversation, with absolute resolution of every problem the've ever faced, which obviously is not going to happen as their problems run too deep. In the earlier seasons talking meant a furthering of the conflict before a resolution or even only a partial resolution was obtained, that's why those seasons worked better IMO. Remember the confrontations (multiple) between Sam and Dean after John died? There were many…… in episode after episode, with each confrontation leading to another little gem of truth about each brother and how they felt, which then lead to another confrontation in a subsequent episode. This went on for seasons (Daddy issues were ripe in season 5 for both boys) and even though it was discussed and the issues were moved forward, they were't necessarily totally resolved either; even in season 9 we are seeing remnants of lingering Daddy issues that are still unresolved. It was so incredibly satisfying and revealing and enriching of the world and the characters the way in which the issues were addressed back then. Now, we get the brothers NOT talking ever, about anything. And while that didn't seem to effect Dean all that much; he had Castiel and Kevin (until he died, and even AFTER he died) and Zeke and Charlie and even Crowley to talk to after all, which revealed his mindset to the point of overkill. But Sam? No… all the not talking gets for Sam is to be silent or have characters tell him to A. Get over it (Kevin) B. That he's scared and defensive (Garth) C. Using the situation to talk about themselves (Cas); all which left Sam without a voice and consequently no character development.
So, basically what I am saying is that I want the writers to be brave enough to have Sam force Dean to talk about their current issue, to have Dean look into why he's so afraid to face his truth and his demons; it could be an explosive confrontation filled with denial followed by a heartfelt talk full of pain. I want Sam to tell us what he's thinking and he can only do that when he's talking to Dean; so let them TALK! What would be the harm? That Dean would have to face that he feels he's a killer and nothing more and have to admit that to Sam's face? He's been saying that since season 2, said it directly TO Sam in Croatoan, so its hardly new ground, and a little reflection on this continuing problem is sorely overdue. Dean realizing and admitting that he's a killer would have changed the outcome of his demon status not on iota. As a matter of fact if Dean HAD admitted to this fear, and let us feel his pain about it, and let Sam see it as well, the outcome of the season would have been oven MORE devastating IMO and Sam could have been supportive rather than indifferent benefitting the characterizatio n of both brothers. So, I can't see why waiting on these issues and having the boys NOT TALK is doing one bit of good either for the characters or for the development of the overall drama.
There's this idea out there that the boys will have a single, incredible conversation at the end of the series that ties all their lingering problems and issues up into one neat and resolved little package never to be made an issue out of again, resulting in everlasting understanding and perfect harmony between them. Well, such a conversation in the 11th hour of the series would be IMO (to reiterate a famous quote from seasons past) "too little, too late." These types of issues that each brother has for himself, and that they have between them cannot be addressed in a single conversation or through trite one liners like "I lied," and "I'm proud of us." It deserves more complex and detailed attention over multiple episodes (over multiple seasons even) and I'd like them to start now; hell, I'd have liked for them to start in season 8 with a detailed account of why EXACTLY Sam thought Dean was dead and why he didn't look and for Dean to have listened to Sam's reasons and UNDERSTOOD them instead of the half baked explanation we got along with Dean's "You left me to rot in purgatory for a girl" misinterpretati on. A misinterpretati on that still stands today I might add. What are the writers waiting for? As each season passes, the unresolved issues get deeper, more tangled and complex. each new season brings more and more plot developments that heap additional problems onto the brothers plates, making the prospect of ANY resolution at all, to any of it more and more remote. No one conversation in the 11th hour of the series can possibly hope resolve what's come about in the past two seasons, so there is a terrible danger that most of it will remain irritatingly unresolved forever. That's just not good storytelling.
as for his self righteous attitude, it makes sense for the very same reason. it's his way of avoiding the situation. by not acknowledging that he did anything wrong and declaring he'd do it all again because it was the right thing to do....i think he was trying to convince himself more than sam.
don't ever lose your voice...:) i know i am in good company. ;)
- Lilah
I feel that any character development for both Sam and Dean was set aside this season, except that Sam's supposed arc was used to serve Dean’s ultimate plot, the MOC. Once the MoC thing started rolling, Sam was out of the show completely. He no longer argued with Dean, did not demand a new definition of their relationship, and no longer ran to his room slamming the door. JP was just there on-screen, without purpose of definition of a character.
I feel both Sam and Dean's characters took terrible hits this season, to the point that the J2s lost their own show in S9 for the sake of Carver building an ensemble cast and setting up a different SPN landscape. I don't know what that landscape will be, but I am very, very worried about what he is doing. I am almost to the parting point with what has been done to the show and the two leads, but I will take a peek at S10 to see what he has in mind.
I was also enjoying it because I kept on expecting the possession storyline to offer up lots of Sam POV, with Gadreel telling Dean and us what was going on in Sam's heart and mind. The whole possession storyline, and indeed the MOC storyline, could have been goldmines for Sam POV and emotional development.
My primal screaming - because I have most certainly been primal screaming too - started in the second half of the season when Sam's POV went on its long holiday and when the writing for Sam was so unsympathetic and cryptic that it lead to Sam being blamed for things despite the fact that he was the victim (according to Jared at one Con - Chicago maybe? - there was a crying Sam scene in one of the episodes after the reveal but unfortunately we never got to see that) and when Sam was removed from the story. So I'll leave my much longer rant for your Part 2 article, Alice.
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Completely agree. The writers really shouldn't rely on Jared's beautifully expressive eyes to convey Sam's feelings/reacti ons, Sam should be allowed to speak. Returning guest characters had episodes devoted to them so why couldn't Sam? In my ideal world Carver would write all episodes because he at least tries to get inside Sam's head, or Sera Gamble and Ben Edlund would return.
Quote:I find it interesting that absolutely no attempt was made to show how he got from "I want to complete the trials and live" to "Make sure I can't come back." It's a pretty big turn around in Sam's thinking; so how did he get there? Who knows? Suddenly he's just willing to die, no explanation. A single line could have taken care of this problem had anyone decided to take the time to work it out. But that's been the problem lately; no one seems to care about anything Sam does or thinks so nothing is explained beyond how it affects the other characters and then those characters spend time talking about how it affects them; as a matter of fact, Dean got to have a nice moment with Tracy about Sam's participation in letting Lucifer out of the cage, but no one bothered to let that moment be about Sam.
Quote:This has been happening a lot lately; a trite, nonspecific, meaningless exchange takes place between the brothers instead of a meaningful conversation or any real plot development. You can add this stupid bit of dialog in with "These trials? They're purifying me" and "I'm proud of us" as meaningless tripe disguised at some kind of character or story resolution. "These trials, they're purifying me" is a sad one line resolution to the issue of Sam's blood, a foundation plot point that basically set the entire series in motion, was summed up in one line and never addressed again; and "I'm proud of us," an absolutely ridiculous resolution to two years of brother conflict that solved absolutely nothing between them. And by two of the shows best writers too; more's the pity.
Quote:Good question. This is Supernatural's new - 'it must have been happening off stage because it finally got mentioned one time, but they aren't' going to bother to show it to the audience,' type of charter development that we've been seeing in Sam a lot lately. You can add this moment to the "I'm the one whose having the nightmares" moment at the end of the season where one line of dialogue is supposed to represent character insight. So, I guess Sam HAD been pondering what was wrong with him in the first half of the season, and later in I guess he HAD been suffering the effects of the possession; too bad no one bothered to show us any of it.
Quote:All these questions really get to the heart of the problem IMO. Sam POV or the lack thereof. What exactly was Sam so upset about (I am NOT saying he had no right to be upset; on the contrary, I am on Sam's side in this) but the crux of the issue for Sam, an issue big enough for him to allow Dean to go off on his own, was never really outlined properly.What was it that Sam was so angry about? Was it because Kevin died? Was it because Dean lied and tricked him? Was it because Dean went back on the declaration that he made in Sacrifice a mere few hours after having stated it? Was it because he took away Sam's free will? All of these would make sense to me… all of these are good reasons to be upset, but none of them were ever developed so the possession ends up being about Sam being mad with seemingly no reason and Dean being upset because Sam's mad. It's pretty hard to find sympathy for some one you can't understand. This whole season has done a real disservice to Sam as a character and to Jared as an actor.
the way i understood trial and error, sam wanted to do the trials for dean because sam believed that dean saw it simply as a suicide mission. dean saw his life pretty much ending bloody. sam, given that he had actually got to experience normal for the first time, new there was more to life than hunting and that life didn't have to end bloody. but mostly i think sam did the trials to atone to his brother. he would take on this burden, he would give dean the world he desires. sam would avenge the loss of their family and friends. sam didn't know he would die if he took on the trials, but i doubt it would've changed anything had he known.
sam told dean in remember the titans that he was naïve to think he could walk away from the trials unscathed. sam was sick. he knew something was very wrong. he started to recognize and understand that he may not come out of this alive. as ea. episode passed, sam realized more and more that he was weakening. he didn't say it, but i really don't think as we got closer to the end of the season, sam was oblivious to the fact that he could die. as a matter of fact, in sacrifice, his response to dean saying he would die if he finished the trials wasn't one of shock at all...he simply said..."so".
in itiglih sam didn't choose to die. it wasn't a case of sam do you want to live or die, i'll let you decide and then he opted for checking out. sam has always been realistic. he's always been logical. there was that part of him that wanted to fight to live, but the realist in sam also knew that there was no way out of this for him, his death was inevitable. he asked dean how. he asked for a solution, but there wasn't one. sam did the one thing that i would expect from sam, he accepted his fate with dignity. he didn't do as bobby did and run from his reaper. he instead accepted it was his time and decided if he was going out he was going out on his terms. he wasn't going to let himself be brought back and it's understandable, as he's been brought back before and people he loved died. sam thinking of others before he thinks of himself is not uncommon or unexpected. i truly don't think that sam's acceptance of his death negates anything that he said in trial and error...much time had passed since then and circumstances had changed for sam since then as well.
i don't agree that there was lack of emotion on sam's part. at first sam is feeling fine, he's even happy. he finally believes that he has the one thing he's always wanted, his brother's trust. sam smiles like this :). it's just a shame that dean knew that sam wouldn't be feeling this way for long. as we get further along sam is beginning to wonder about things but not enough to suspect dean of anything. he accepts dean at his word and at this point there is no reason for sam to believe dean is up to something. sam then begins to start showing how scared he is. he's beginning to unravel and believe that there's something wrong with. then we have sam learning the truth. sam shows anger, hurt, pain and conflict all at once. i have to say that i think show did tell us what it was that sam was so angry about. he told dean he couldn't trust him. he couldn't trust him because dean had been lying. he told ed in thinman to fess up because lies ruin relationships. i think sam made it pretty clear that he was upset with dean for all the lies. sam's anger is exacerbated even more by kevin's death, whom he bears the weight of a tremendous burden of guilt. dean declaring "kevin's death is on me" isn't going to fix or erase sam's feeling of responsibility. it was his hands that lay on kevin's head and burned the life out of him. this is the memory sam carries and has nightmares about. a memory in which sam would never have to bear had dean not lied to him in the first place. this is why i cannot agree that sam had lacked emotion. he wreaked of conflict for the entire second half of the season. he knows what his brother did was out of love, and yet what his brother did hurt others at the expense of sam yet again. there's never a moment when sam isn't at his brother's side, showing us and dean through his actions how much sam loves his brother. there's anger and frustration flowing through sam too. dean's unwillingness to admit that what he did was wrong, his declaration that he would do it all the same, even knowing kevin would die at sam's hands...his disregard of how sam is feeling and his self centered view of how he thinks things should be no matter the consequences to others. so we see sam angry. we hear him tell dean that they are broken, he can't trust him and if he wants to be brothers....sam is angry again in the purge when dean declares he did the right thing and he'd do it the same, we can feel sam's frustration when he tells dean that he wouldn't save him the same way in the same circumstances.. .we can see his doubt in his brother when he declares that his brother doesn't save sam for sam, he does it because he doesn't want to be alone...after all, in the church dean had promised that no one came first and yet dean chose to trust in an angel he didn't know over his brother who he lied to over and over. what is the upside in me being alive? sam asks...sam reverts back to his feeling of unworthiness and doesn't believe that dean had truly meant what he said in the church, that he said it simply so sam would stop the trials...sam's inner monster feeding off of dean's. sam is right. dean doesn't want to be alone. he does need sam in his life. he does go to the extreme to keep him in it. he regretfully will accept consequences that come as a result, even ones as horrible as someone he cares about getting killed in the crossfire. dean will just bear the burden, but sam will be alive. but as long as sam is alive, dean will be able to bear the burden. sam is the best part of who dean is, he's his strength and his goodness. without sam he becomes what he became in purgatory...the killer he always feared himself to be. so yes, sam is right when he tells dean he saved him for him. but dean also loves his brother. he sees sam as valuable to not only himself, but the world. this is what sam's monster is preventing him from seeing, that his brother loves him and trusts him and saves sam for sam as well.
it was always very obvious to me how conflicted and angry sam was. he spent the entire second half of the season fighting. he was fighting against the anger and pain and he was fighting to save his relationship with his brother. not easy, but he did it. i found sam to be very impressive this season and i thought jared did an amazing job...from playing two different characters, to finding out the truth, to finding a way to try to balance his anger and pain with his love for his brother. as death proclaimed...." well played". ;)
In 9.01, when Sam was talking to the part of him that wanted to live (Dean) and the part of him that was willing to accept death (Bobby), Sam was finally coming to terms with the fact that yes, he's done a lot of bad crap in his life, but has also done a lot of good, too. That's a significant step forward for brothers who have spent their lives mastering the art of self-loathing. IMO, Wanting to die and coming to terms with dying are two entirely different mindsets.
Completely agree with your comments about Andrew Dabb; hoping it was just the fact that he was preoccupied with the Bloodlines pilot (in which case, what the hell?). I guess time will tell.
Noticed in the comments section that some have chosen to view your article as an attack on Sam Winchester; I did not see it in this light; the fact that fans have to spend so much time filling in the blanks about Sam Winchester does not reflect positively on the writing. Not saying everything has to be spelled out, but maybe a little more than an occasional concerned glance at his brother, or knocking him unconscious every other episode so they don't have to write something for him to say, would be useful.
As far as how to fix this in S10, I'm somewhat pessimistic. Like you said, the only writer to give any meaningful and sensible Sam POV this season is Jeremy Carver and he only writes two episodes a season. It seems that most of the writers that really knew how to write for Sam Winchester (Ben Edlund, Sera Gamble, Eric Kripke, etc.) are no longer writing for the show.
as for his never give up attiude:...that boy has been doing nothing but fighting to save his relationship with his brother for the past year now. hell for the last two years. never give up....sam is the only one who's never given up....especiall y on his brother...hell the only one who hasn't given up on dean is sam.
the writing may be crappy at times and sam may not get to say as much as we'd like....but there hasn't been a single moment in 10 years that sam Winchester has not been a hero....
I agree w/everything else you wrote about Sam. His characterizatio n was awful this past season.
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I agree with you. It was simply awful. I know that Sam "internalizes" and tends to "hold his emotions close to the vest" and all that other tripe that the writers say as an excuse to not write Sam's feelings or thoughts, or lately even allow him to speak in complete sentences. But this year, they had a perfect out to that problem in the form of Gadreel. The angel even said that he knew everything that Sam knew (and talk about a violation! Geez.) but still, I figured with a declaration like "I know everything he knows" that if we couldn't get information about Sam from Sam himself that maybe Gadreel would end up spilling the beans from time to time; it's not an ideal way to find out about someone, but in the absence of any other information, I'd have been happy to get it. But NO! Even though he said it, we learned absolutely nothing about Sam at all, nothing. And even knowing that he could probably ask Gadreel ANYTHING he wanted to about Sam and get a straight answer, Dean showed NO interest in learning anything about his brother, and never even bothered to ask. This is the kind of thing that makes me bat shit crazy. Basically the writers hinted that they had a way to let us know all about Sam Winchester, all of his deepest and most initiate thoughts and feelings, and then didn't follow through with it at all. So.Incredibly.F rustrating.
It is good to hear from you both. I found this entire season to be very disappointing. It ranks as the worst season of Supernatural to me . . . . even worse than 8, and I hated S8. I have been extremely disappointed with Supernatural since Carver took over as showrunner. As you both know, I hated S8, esp. that OOC nonsense w/Sam not looking for Dean. It got a bit better when the trials started, but Sacrifice was just okay, IMO, esp. when compared to finales from prior seasons.
This year was just awful for Sam. Honestly, if Sam had been removed from the entire season, nothing would change. He was completely unnecessary. At least when Sam got the mytharc, Dean got a healthy and substantive POV. We didn't even get that w/Sam. He got minimal, vague POV that was ultimately changed by season's end.
As I said, I had no problem w/Sam accepting his inevitable death in the premiere. To me, that was fine. I didn't find that problematic or OOC. All the problems for Sam came after the premiere. I enjoyed the Gadreel possession (esp. JP's portrayal), but we weren't given enough Sam POV during it. As usual, I think Sam mentioned something about losing time in the last few minutes of the episode before the mid-season break. Up until that point, the audience had no idea that Sam thought anything was wrong b/c Sam was never allowed to voice any concerns. Yes, he asked Dean about Zeke, and he may have questioned what happened when he was passed out for the 1000th time, but the story never built up over time. I'm not sure why these writers don't want to build up a story. The same thing happened w/Sam's hallucinations. They occurred in the background (though they were 24/7 and Sam surely would have been more obviously affected by them) until the writers were ready to end that arc. That's what happened this year w/the possession. Sam was completely clueless and unquestioning (which is against his character) until the writers were ready to end the arc. I think it would have been much more interesting for the audience and would have built up more tension btw the brothers if we saw earlier that Sam was aware of losing time, if we saw him worried about his health, or if we saw Sam questioning things he would normally question such as his throat being slashed one minute and completely healed the next?!?!?! They didn't even have Sam remark on that IIRC. That's beyond ridiculous. It's really getting to the point where one only needs to watch 5 episodes to keep up w/the season: the premiere, the episode before the mid-break, the mid-break, the episode after the mid-break, and the finale. Did anything really significant happen in those other episodes this year? Not that I can recall.
I, foolishly, thought we'd get a good follow-up to Sam's possession, but all we got was The Purge and that werewolf conversation. Now, my opinion made me very unpopular w/those who favor Sam, but as a true bi-bro fan, I hated . . . . absolutely HATED his speeches. I thought they were poorly written but also needlessly cruel but strangely vague. I never had a problem w/Sam's anger. I just had a problem w/the horrible way in which the writers allowed Sam to express that anger. His larger point could have been made in a much more articulate way but that wasn't the point. Sam's speeches don't matter b/c by the end of the season, they meant nothing. Every single thing that Sam said or did was solely done to further Dean's arc, which did a huge disservice to Sam.
Sam actually called Gadreel a "friend." Gadreeel went from "psycho angel" to "friend," and we weren't treated to that journey w/Sam. Sam hated the possession, but then later referred to it as shared housing. Sam remembered NOTHING of the possession but can suddenly attest to Gadreel's character and vouch for him being a good, but misunderstood guy. Huh? Really?! How in the world could Sam tell Cas that Gadreel is a good guy when he never met Gadreel and had NO MEMORY of being possessed?!?!?! ? Is there anyone keeping track of the main story? Guess not.
What I also hated was Sam's complete and utter uselessness by the end of the season. Since the writers flat out refuse to write the show from his eyes, he was literally wallpaper at the end of the season. I know some who favor Dean will argue Dean has been wallpaper for seasons, but at least Dean gets to fight for Sam, help Sam, talk to others about Sam, be present in the freakin' show! Jared doesn't even get that. He didn't research the MoC. He didn't talk to Cas or Crowley about. He didn't search out Cain. He didn't confront Dean about it. He didn't help Dean in any way. They even cut out the best Sam reaction to Dean's death. We got shortchanged on everything. Sam may as well not have been in the second half of the season.
And can I say that Bad Boys will go down - for me - as the WORST episode of Supernatural I have ever had the misfortune of watching. Even Bitten and that cop show pilot episode weren't as bad b/c they didn't completely annihilate EIGHT years of characterizatio n for Dean or turn Sam into a freakin' moron! Ugh! I HATE that episode w/a passion!!! Am I really supposed to believe that 12-year old Sam was playing w/an airplane out of a window like a moron AND didn't read the HUGE sign right outside the boys home to know Dean was in a boys home?!?!?!!?!? Who wrote this crap? Had they never seen AVSC where an 8-yr old Sam displayed more depth and maturity than their 12-yr old version. And I know this isn't a Dean article, but by 16, Dean had committed to hunting! A 16-yr old Dean would have been worried about his dad and brother, not dreaming about prom dates. And am I really supposed to believe that Dean got his first kiss at 16?!?!?! Really!?!?!?! Argh . . . . . .
Sorry for the long rant and then the mini-BB rant. I know rants are not much appreciated around these parts but I was utterly disappointed w/the season and Sam, in particular. I have no faith in Carver and no desire for next season as I expect to see much of the same: OOC, pointless brother angst/tension, guest stars galore, etc.
Sam has no point in the show any more. He has no issues that plague him and affect his behavior. He doesn't research or solve cases. His moral compass has been shown repeatedly to be wrong by the other characters in the show so he can't "keep everyone human" as he's done in the past as evidenced by Dean being a demon. He doesn't talk to Dean or argue with him any more. He's not as good of a hunter as Dean, (as evidenced by the 37-14 knock out ratio in seasons 6-9). He can't save Dean as evidenced by his multiple failures over the years culminating in this year's fail; sucker punched like a rookie. So why is Sam around any more? What's his function on this show? What does he want? How does he see himself? What does he expect his future will be? Who is he? He's been rendered mute, erased. Sam Winchester has disappeared.
And thanks for the rant.
I find I agree with much of what you, percy and E have posted lately.
Sadly.
And I'm glad you enjoyed the rant!
Quote:Yeah, I just thought they could have written the speeches in a way where Sam didn't come off as so cruel, esp. since Sam was the victim. They just went for OTT like w/Dean and that Penny episode speech in S8. As a bi-bro fan, I like the boys together. I don't mind when they fight, but lately, the writers have them fighting solely for the sake of fighting. It all feels so contrived and forced.
Quote:Is that their explanation for - yet again - not writing a story??!?!? If they want to say, Sam got to know Gadreel or Sam changed his feelings about Gadreel, that's fine. Just tell that story! Write dialogue or scenes to show that happening. You don't have Sam suddenly say Gadreel was misunderstood w/no build up to Sam having that thought. It reminds me of the time when Cas called Sam his "friend" in S5. I remember a bunch of us saying, "Hey . . . when did that happen?" That is such lazy, bad writing IMO.
Then….then (shakes finger), when we got to the episode Road Trip. That's when I realized…. that's when it dawned on me and when all my suspicions and concerns that had been brewing since those interviews with Jared at the start of season 8..... that the whole of season 8, the trials and the wretched 'not looking' plot and all of season 9 to that point, the possession and the expulsion of Gadreel, weren't about Sam at all, it was all about Dean and the MoC. So, Sam's decision to not look for Dean didn't have to make sense for Sam, because it was only about motivating Dean. Sam's doing the trials wasn't about Sam either, it was about making Dean desperate enough to do something awful so that Sam could get mad and say mean things, remove his support and trust, thus pushing Dean into taking the Mark. That's why we haven't seen Sam suffer any repercussions from his possession, because how it affected Sam doesn't matter, it only mattered in how it affected Dean, to get him into the headspace needed to have him take on the Mark. Nothing Sam has done since Carver has taken over has in any way been about Sam; he's had no story, he's had no character development, he's just there to dress the set and create something for others to react to. How HE feels, what HE thinks is irrelevant because none of his story lines were actually about him. Everything we've known about him, his character traits, likes, dislikes, strengths, weakness, his core values and his essential issues have vanished because, when it comes to Dean and the MoC, Castiel and the Angel War, Crowley and the Hell War or even Kevin and the tablets, Garth and his were-wolfishnes s, Charlie and her adventures, Jody and her grief….none of Sam is relevant to whats going on in the overall plots. He is uninvolved in any of it. His job is to antagonize Dean in a myriad of ways, by not looking, by being vulnerable or sick or hurt, for being at death's door, for withholding his trust and love. I am so pissed off I can hardly stand it. This is JC's big three year arc that we've heard so much about? Grrr.
And I agree with you about Bad Boys. As I was watching the episode my first thought was "wait a minute, Dean was always about being FOR the hunt. He LIKES hunting and couldn't understand why Sam didn't like it or didn't want to participate in the Family Business." It was one of Dean's core personality traits all through the early seasons, and actually contributed to a huge amount of the friction between Sam and Dean in the early years. So, was Dean lying all that time? Being a hypocrite? It doesn't make any sense! Bad Boys rewrote canon in the worst possible way; this is a great example of how NOT to do a retcon. Now, I could certainly understand Dean growing weary of the hunt as time went on and as they continued to suffer terrible losses, but the episode contradicted a core element of the shows foundation and dismissed a huge part of who Dean was when we first met him. URG! It also brings up the issue of Dean's refusal to support Sam's going to college. If we are to accept the "I want normal" Dean we saw in Bad Boys, then why?????!??!? a mere handful of years later did Dean turn on Sam for WANTING THE EXACT SAME THING? Basically telling him that he ran away and betrayed the family because he dared to want to go to college, to NOT hunt, to want normal, safe!?!?!?? Is this a case of "If I can't have it, you can't have it either?" That seems pretty petty even for Dean. Ugh just awful, awful careless writing that makes all of the characters look bad; especially Dean when I think that the intention of the episode was to make Dean look sympathetic, which he didn't, not to me anyway. So they need to try a little harder then.
Devil May Care)did not have any problem with how Sam acted with respect to Tracy.
I’m No Angel)Sam fainted.as far as Sam goes episode was a waste.
Slumber Party)I only remember dumbing down of Sam.
Dog Dean Afternoon)GAAAAAHHHHHHH Joining you in your primal screaming.
Heaven Can’t Wait)Agree with whatever you have written
Bad BoysThis episode for me was a waste of space.I learnt nothing new.A failed try by TPTB to manipulate my views regarding Dean.
Rock and a Hard PlaceOne scene that mattered that's it.
“Holy Terror” and “Road Trip” As we say in India bakwaas (rubbish).This is because this was their last chance to have more Sam pov but yeah they gave only “But don’t go thinking that’s the problem, ‘cause it’s not.”
Quote:And Sam should absorb this because? it is pretty unrealistic to expect Sam to have to make nice, you have to also consider Sam was fresh out from getting his brain nailed with.It did not look any fun there.At that moment I wanted Sam to just vanish and go to some place where even Dean's shadow does not fall on him.I had zero sympathy regarding Dean at that time and I am in 100% agreement with Sam there.
I'm really trying to not be pessimistic about season ten. I keep hoping that Kripke will be around a bit more and will offer input. Or just that they should start reading the critical comments from bloggers and entertainments writers (we all see that something is wrong) and try to do better. These missteps in writing are so obvious! That's the trouble with a mature show though (it happened with Smallville too). Lack of quality doesn't matter when you have a bunch of loyal fans that won't go down with the ship. We've put in too much time and energy.
of course then there were those couple of instances where dean needed gad to save cas and Charlie. it doesn't really bother me much because sam is very very beautiful either way....awake or asleep....and wet ...i like when sam's wet too...and in workout gear....very nice legs...;)
How did Sam go from "held together with scotch tape and safety pins" to Cas barely needing to heal him in like 2 days or a couple of weeks later? In Rock and a Hard Place Sam is in such bad shape that he will die if Gadreel leaves, and Vesta pretty much confirms this so it's not just Gad holding onto a nice vessel. Crowley tells Sam he may well drop dead if he evicts Gadreel. The BOOM Sam is fine, because they didn't want him to be sick anymore. It just negates the whole "we can't tell Sam arc".
I'm going to jump around on episodes here, so sorry.
Bad Boys: Not only does it not make sense that Sam didn't know Dean was in a boys home, his casual barely remembering the incident makes no sense. One of Sam's biggest motivators has been the need to be safe. When he found out the truth about what John did, he immediately jumped to being afraid that the monsters could kill John and Dean and Sam. Suddenly he was told that Dean WAS LOST ON A HUNT and he blows it off, plays with his airplane and is totally chill with the fact that he thought Dean might be being held or killed by a monster for a month? In what universe does that make any sense?
Slumber Party and Rock and a Hard Place: Okay Sam having the peen of death is a fandom joke and maybe Charlie is fangirling when she makes fun of Sam's lack of "luck with the ladies". But Dean dragged Sam out of his apartment while Jess burned on the ceiling. Dean wept when Sam shot Madison. Dean saw Sarah die in front of Sam's eyes JUST MONTHS BEFORE and Dean makes a JOKE about it? The defining tragedies of Sam's life have actually become an in universe joke?
Devil May Care and Slumber Party: Suddenly Sam is the ONLY ONE to start the Apocalypse and Dean is THE ONLY ONE to stop it. Why, oh why, did the writers do this? Dean ducks any and all responsibility. And no, I don't expect a long explanation of what happened, but a simple you don't know, a lot more people helped spring Lucifer, including me, long story tell you later would have covered so much more ground for me. And when Charlie thanks DEAN for stopping the Apocalypse? Look I don't think Sam could have regained control without Dean, but SAM was the one to regain control. Sam was the one to jump into the Cage expecting eternal torture. Sam was the one who was tortured. The the show gives any and all credit to Dean? I was appalled. BTW, I did think Sam looked shamed and hurt by Tracy's comments but mileage varies on that.
Things that worked for me that didn't work for you Alice.
I Think I'm Going to Like It Here: Sam's change from Trial and Error doesn't bother me. I've had family members who have terminal illnesses. Most of them start out determined to fight and beat them. But as they get weaker and more ill, they come to accept that it's a battle they can't win. I think Sam took the Trials because he knew they were a suicide run for Dean and he believed that he could fight his way through and live. Then they started to take their toll and by the time he was in the church he pretty well knew he was probably going to die. I took the journey in his head as happening because on some level he could feel that his body was shutting down and that it could no longer function. As for asking Death that he never be brought back, it made sense to me. He had been brought back numerous times, often mostly or because of Dean (I will always believe Cas brought him back for Dean, not for Sam) and the results gone from unmitigated disaster (Dean in Hell, Sam releasing Lucifer) to just bad (Sam and Dean get kicked out of heaven to continue to fight to not be vessels) or simply disastrous (Sam is soulless then Sam hallucinates 24/7). Sam is aware that Dean will do nutso things to bring him back and he wants to forestall that. In many ways this actually is Sam keeping to the "don't look for a way to bring us back" pact that he honored between seasons 7 and 8. At least he was more than willing to stick to it for himself.
I also have no problem with him not placating Dean's guilt or burning pain and guilt. His body had just been tortured with NEEDLES IN HIS BRAIN. He had just been possessed by an angel (and Jimmy Novack described that like being tied to a comet) and Crowley (being possessed by Crowley left Linda Tran practically catatonic). I had an emergency appendectomy a few years ago and it took 3 days before I could think of much other than the pain. The physical affect of the needles in his head should still have been slowing Sam down. So patting Dean on the head and making DEAN feel better should not have been a priority, especially since Dean was responsible for Sam's condition. Plus, as far as Dean knew, Sam could still have been on death's door. After all, Gadreel had repeatedly told him that Sam wasn't healed enough to live if Gadreel vacated his body. So Dean stomps off into the night leaving Sam to possibly die alone. He tells Sam that Sam isn't allowed to feel guilt over Kevin. That Sam isn't allowed to be angry because Dean is "poison" so it's not Dean's ACTIONS that can be criticized, but Dean is damaged. Well, I don't cut Dean any slack here. Dean was revved up and ready to go. The only thing he was going to accept was Sam telling him that he was totally 100% forgiven. In fact Dean wanted to hear there was nothing to forgive, Dean was right and good and if Sam was unhappy, well Sam had to admit he was being unreasonable. That was the line Dean held to for the rest of the season (which belongs in part 2) so I'll hold off on going further.
I didn't like Sam's seeming obliviousness, but he was being told who are you going to believe me or you lying eyes by Dean. Dean has been pulling that attitude a lot for the past seasons. You're soulless Sam, I will tell you how to behave. You need your soul back Sam even if it kills you. You can't look at what you did when you were soulless, Sam, it might kill you. You have to trust me, Sam. I'll be stone number one, Sam. I'll trust you on Amy and let her go. I didn't let her go? Well Amy had to die, you were wrong to trust her monsters always become what they are. . Benny is good how dare you doubt me? I said monsters can't be trusted? Now I say they can. Martin deserved to be killed by Benny. You thought you were a good brother, Benny was more of a brother in the last year than you have ever been. All those digs I made at you for letting me down after I came back from Purgatory? How could you even DREAM that I meant them? You didn't hear them right. You got confused. A lot of the prior seasons was Dean shaping Sam's actions to fit how Dean viewed them. Amelia was just a girl. Sam abandoned him. Eating organic food (after knowing the food supply was tainted by additives made by the Leviathan no less) meant people were dying because you took the time to shop organic, SAM. Sam had pretty much adopted the views Dean had been pushing since he got his soul back. He had come to rely on Dean's interpretation of the world. In some cases Dean was honest and protecting Sam, in others, not so much. But Sam was taught that Dean knows what's right, Sam doesn't. So buying Dean's excuses is understandable, especially since Gadreel could mess with his memories.
I am looking forward to part 2.
Taken as a whole for me season 9 was an epic fail. And I don't expect any better in season 10 given that it will be all about Dean so once again we won't see anything from Sam's POV, I expect.
Loving all the comments here. I do not agree that Sam wanted to die, I think he was willing to take that path as the last resort, but then he immediately said "yes" to Dean when he said he had a plan. Proof he wanted to live as he didn't even ask about the plan , just "what do I do?".
Thanks for the great read Alice and great comments esp from perseysowner & nappi.
In “I Think I’m Gonna Like It Here”, Sam learned that he was dying, and found that there were far worse things than death, like Dean selling his soul. He accepted death as a respite, but mostly as an alternative to being kept alive by a demon deal. My impression was that Sam wanted to live, but not at any cost. He was willing to die in order to avoid the collateral damage that comes with resurrection. He went along with Dean’s plan because he thought Dean had found a third option.
I didn’t see Sam shrugging Tracy off in “Devil May Care”. I fact, he seemed rather struck by her comment. I took the conversation at the end to mean that Sam accepted responsibility for his past mistakes, but didn’t dwell on them. He was able to be happy with his life as it was instead of focusing on either the past or the future. A moment I found interesting was “Zeke” telling Dean that Sam knew Dean had acted out of love. I don’t think that knowledge and Sam’s gratitude in “Bad Boys” were erased by Sam’s anger at Dean’s lies and betrayal. Love and anger aren’t mutually exclusive; one just sometimes overshadows the other.
In my opinion, Sam wasn’t so much oblivious to his strange symptoms and Dean’s lies as he was afraid of what he might find out and/or unwilling to confront Dean. It took Sam months to talk about his nightmares in season 1 and three years to talk about the demon blood. While hallucinating and unable to sleep, he still acted like he had things under control. When Sam feels that something is wrong with him, he tends to put off dealing with the issue until it can’t possibly be ignored. However, I agree that the possession dragged on too long.
In “Road Trip”, I felt that Sam’s anger was due to Dean’s deception and Kevin’s death. Dean’s decision to trick Sam into getting possessed and lie about it had led to the very thing Sam was willing to die to avoid. People had been killed and Sam had been cheated out of a way to avoid it. I agree with you, Alice, about Dean’s guilt: it was through the roof. That’s why I think that Sam’s reaction had little, if anything, to do with Dean’s decision to go off on his own. No one, not even Sam, could ever judge Dean more harshly than Dean himself. If Sam had wholeheartedly forgiven him, I doubt that Dean would have accepted it. I think Sam’s journey wasn’t meant as a means to make Dean a demon: Dean became a demon because of his own self-loathing and inability to face the consequences of his mistakes. Sam lost his identity by being possessed against his will and used to commit murders, including the murder of someone who was under his protection. In “Road Trip”, Sam reclaimed ownership of his body and mind. In the second half of the season, Sam dealt with the consequences of this experience while Dean went on a downward spiral.
There were flaws in the writing for Sam this season, but I think there's potential and remain hopeful for season 10.
Thanks again for this article, Alice, and for all the work you do on this wonderful site. I’m looking forward to part 2.
i happen to be among the few who are happy with s9. i don't pretend that everything is perfect, but i'm enjoying the story enough as to not be bothered by stuff that seems to bother others. i see the story being told a certain way, and i'm ok with it. here's what i don't think..i don't think the writers incapable of writing for the brothers. a lot of these writers have been with the show for some time now. carver is totally aware of the ins and outs of the Winchesters. i don't think it a coincidence that the two eps that he writes, the beginning and the end, are the eps that are most remembered as being character driven. if i were to guess, i'd say that carver wants the story told a certain way so the writers can only give us so much, this way carver can close the deal at the end of the season...he's done it twice now and i can't begrudge the man for wanting to tell the boys story the way he wants to tell it. i guess i just like the human aspect of the story. i am looking forward to s10 because i do believe that we will get the boys communicating the way we all desire them to. i do see the boys learning from all this. i do see the boys coming to understand ea. other and accept ea. other and i do see the boys finally laying to rest these issues. i may not like every aspect of the story as carver is telling it, but i understand it and i could see where he's going with it and overall i'm enjoying the hell out of it.
To me this is very much how the season handled Sam and his pain and POV. We saw that he was violated. Then, as soon as Gadreel was expelled, Dean was the one who was making the fuss about his pain, his hurt and Sam was not pushing back with how being possessed against his will affected and hurt him. It was there if you looked closely, but Dean was the one out front. I know the rule is show don't tell, but at some point an audience needs some words to understand a character's POV and Sam didn't get that. The disparity was so large that one commentator here said they forgot that Dean got the Mark BEFORE Sam gave him any speeches that had hurt him. He got the Mark before The Purge and Kevin's get over it. He got the Mark when he didn't know what Sam was going to say. That's the power of having the POV expressed upfront and often.
I don't know why the writers did this. Certainly one view is that they don't know or care to write for Sam. I personally think that is part of the reason. I also think that there is a real reluctance on the part of the writers to highlight Dean's bad behavior. Maybe they learned from season four where Sam's story was played in the background and Sam ended up not being sympathetic to a lot of the audience. Maybe they didn't want to repeat that, so they gave Dean tons of reasons to "go bad". Maybe it's not that they learned anything, but that they think the audience is unwilling to accept Dean as anything other than a woobie, so they minimized Sam's pain so they could highlight Dean's and give Dean plausible deniability for taking the MOC. I don't know. I do know that I want and need far more Sam POV next season. And not why he's a bad brother to poor, misunderstood, unappreciated Dean. I want Sam's story to be highlighted. I want Sam's pain to be front and center and to count. Most of all I don't want Sam to be a hypocrite and risk the world or Dean's physical autonomy. I suspect I will be disappointed on all counts.
because the writers got the opposite reaction regarding dean from me. i didn't feel sympathy for dean. as a matter of fact, i regarded dean to be both self righteous and self centered. I know this isn't the dean winchester deeper look, but to be honest i felt that this has been the most dean centric season of all, and i'm not talking about the story plot, i'm talking dean's behavior. i feel that dean has been so busy wallowing in his own crap that he's disregarded all other's.
then again, it's my belief that the writers don't want me necessarily feeling sorry for dean. the writers can't really make us feel a certain way, as illustrated by all our different view. people feel different ways and view things differently. I still think dean has been purposely written in a bad light. i don't believe the intention is to gain pity. i've seen a lot of posts that actually feel the opposite, that are actually tired of dean wallowing and are pretty much done with the pity party he's thrown himself. for some it seems to me that they've grown tired of dean's negative personality traits, such as his selective hearing or his view that his way is the only way. as a matter of fact, dean has been written in a pretty negative light for the last two seasons now. since I believe that carver is having the boys face their inner demons/issues, when one is dealing with the worst part of themselves, then that's pretty much what we're going to get....the worst. i still believe that dean becoming a demon , the boys walking in ea. other's shoes, experiencing what they cannot control, and then conquering it...this is where i still believe the story to be going. i am still of the belief that the boys will learn from it and they will understand ea. other as they never truly have before. i do believe the writers when they say they are destructing their relationship which is dysfunctional and rebuilding it so they can relate as the men they are now. i haven't lost faith in that. carver said it was a three year arc and i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
and since i don't believe our story is done being told, i believe that we will be getting sam pov next season. i actually look forward to sam venting out to demon dean, which he mind find easier to do. if demon dean becomes a captive audience for sam, well i'm hoping he'll just let loose on dean....
i'm sure we'll be getting demon dean saying cruel things to sam as well....but i think when and if dean does it, it'll be the demon talking. when sam does it...as i hope he does, it'll be sam talking...
i also think when dean is saved the boys will come to terms with ea. other ....;)
In the episode Sam would have been 11, possibly turning/just turned 12 by the time John goes to pick up Dean. I like to think Dean was around for Sam's 12th birthday.
But if the episode worked for you, that's cool. It didn't work for me on any level. For me, it remains the worst episode I've ever seen of Supernatural.
the way i looked at it, that airplane that sam was playing around with could've had significant meaning to him. whether his father gave it to him or dean...it was a gift with sentimental value.
hell even if it had come from bobby or pastor jim....it still would've had special meaning for sam. ....or maybe he just really liked it. ;):)
e, you are free to gripe as much as you desire. that's what this site is all about. i just don't think that sam was represented in any negative way in this eppy. he was a child and he took the word of his father and brother both. now if you still feel that sam should automatically believe his father a liar at all times since he found out the truth in avsc, then that's how you feel, but dean lied to sam too as he corroborated the story. and i avsc, dean was the only one who was honest with sam, hence the amulet scene. so there would be no reason to assume dean was lying to him. there was no indication that sam and dean hadn't talked to ea. other during the time dean was gone. one phone call and dean telling sam he was fine would have sam totally believing the lie.;)
And they could have fixed this entire problem in one of two simple ways IMO, to end up with an episode that at least was logical. 1. They could have dropped the lie from the writing altogether and just gone with the truth. At the start of the episode Dean could have mentioned Sonny and the summer that he and Sam were apart, and Sam could have said "Oh, yeah, wasn't that the time you got caught stealing and had to spend the summer in that place… that boys home? Man, dad dumped me at Bobby's all by myself that summer. I was so bored, I really missed you. You know, that was the first time we'd been apart for more than like, a day," or something to that effect. The part where Dean lost the money by gambling thus creating the need to steal to begin with could have been the part Sam didn't know or was surprised about. OR 2. They could have shown Sam arriving in the Impala with his plane, which he dropped to the ground immediately upon seeing Dean on the porch. They could have had child Sam clamber out the open Impala window, run up to Dean and launch himself at his older brother, expressing huge relief at seeing him again safe and sound. No words necessary, no time added to the episode. Then maybe, just maybe it might have appeared that when this ridiculous plot was developed to begin with that even one person remembered that Dean had a little brother who loved him and might have been concerned about being separated from him for two whole months and was relieved to see him safe and well, regardless of whether he'd been missing on a hunt or had just been away for two months at a boys home.
As you so eloquently pointed out, John was unnecessarily trashed in that episode. I could be wrong b/c I only watched the episode the one time, but for some reason I thought Dean was stealing to get them food. That could be something I made up but in any event, I still don't believe John would dump Dean at a boys home all summer. He kept those boys close so there's no way he would have done that. I also didn't like that Dean had bruises on his arms, and it was heavily implied - at least to me - that John had given him those bruises.
But back to Sam - I was astounded when adult!Sam didn't seem to remember the summer when Dean went MISSING on a hunt. As you said, they could have written a line like, "Dude! You were at a boys home that summer?!?!? I went out of my mind worrying about you. I even tried to leave Bobby's to go and look for you! Why didn't you and dad tell me where you really were?" That would have kept Sam in character, and it would have made more sense than his non-reaction. I also agree w/you that the lie could have been removed completely.
I also agree that showing young Sam open the car door before the car stopped and running to the door of the boys' home would have achieved the same effect on Dean. Why Sam had to playing w/a toy airplane out of the car window like a toddler at the ripe old age of 12 is beyond me?!?!?!
Dean did have bruises. He told Sonny that they came from a werewolf hunt. Sonny, of course, thought it was a crazy lie told to protect John, but I think Dean was telling the truth and John did not cause the bruises himself. Moral responsibility for having his son hunt is still on John. It was the one thing that made the aging up make sense. Dean had told Gordon about his first hunt in Bloodlust and he described starting hunting at 16 when he shot something in the heart with a silver bullet. It sounded like a werewolf, but that word doesn't appear in the Bloodlust transcript. Putting the two together, it seems to me that Dean was injured fighting a werewolf. This doesn't help because it kind of smashes the continuity in Route 666 where Sam says he never told Jess about hunting because John's Rule Number 1 was tell no one. Dean says he told Cassie because he wanted to build the relationship on trust, which was certainly partly true, but he also was violating Rule Number 1 on other occasions as well.
IIRC, the actor seemed shifty when he said John hadn't bruised him. I recall it being a "you protest too much" type of situation, but I could be wrong. They have trashed John ever since the character died so it wouldn't shock him to "learn" that John regularly beat the boys. Under Carver, it could happen.
Yes, I always thought Dean may have gambled w/the money b/c it was running low. John was a horrible parent so I wouldn't have been shocked to learn that he left Dean w/money but was gone longer than expected and Dean was trying to stretch it out. I vaguely recall the "Sam got hungry" comment but I don't think Dean meant it in an accusatory way or anything, but I could see Dean lasting longer w/o food than Sam . . . only b/c Dean's older. Yes, he would be hungry but he probably wouldn't talk about it like Sam would.
Anyway, I definitely don't think Dean (or the show) was blaming Sam for Dean being arrested. At least, I didn't see it that way at all. I don't recall us getting very many details about what led to the arrest so I'd blame John. Haha
Logic dictates that if Dean didn't go back to prepare for the hunt (even ring John or Bobby to tell them), then he was snatched by a monster on his way to the shop, so the hunt came to him, as it were. How come Sam wasn't freaked enough by that idea to remember it, considering he was terrified by the idea when he was eight?
You know, it's a small thing. It was possibly a case that they realised it after the episode was filmed and it's not as if they could go back and rewrite/reshoot it so they had no choice but to let it be. However, for me, it's kinda symptomatic of the lack of care of storyline or character that the season has been plagued with.
I couldn't agree more w/every single word you've written. The reason I was so bothered by Sam playing w/his toy airplane out the window is largely for the reasons you stated here. A 12-year old Sam whose brother, and primary caretaker as you mentioned, was missing on a hunt for two months would NOT in any universe, IMO, be playing w/a toy airplane out of the window like some clueless child. He would have been frantic to get back to Dean, to find out if Dean was okay. He would have read the sign right outside the home and KNOWN where Dean had been. Sam's characterizatio n was off in the present too. As you said, he just casually mentions the time Dean was missing on a hunt. Huh?!?!? That makes NO sense given the characters and their history.
I also thought the episode unnecessarily trashed John and retconned everything we know about Dean! As you mentioned elsewhere, why the heck was Dean so upset about Sam going to college when he wanted to escape the family too?!!? Why could he suddenly not understand Sam? What happened to him loving hunting at 16 and committing to it at that age? Why was this mess of an episode even necessary to the Winchester storyline? What purpose did it serve? How does it add to their history? It makes Dean a hypocrite and a liar and Sam a moron. This episode was awful and takes away from the show rather than add to it.
And IIRC, when people commented on Twitter about that scene, whoever wrote this episode said Sam was 6 or 7 so, of course, he was oblivious to what was going on. Viewers had to remind this guy that there is a FOUR year age difference btw Sam and Dean, not 10 or 9. Even if Dean was supposed to be 14 - and the actor could have passed for 14 . . . . he was just on Degrassi as a Freshman the previous year - Sam still would have been too young. I find it very insulting that the writers can't even take the time to get the ages of the characters right. We know they screw up the characterizatio n as evidenced by both Sam and Dean's OOC behavior in this episode, but now, they can't even be bothered to get their ages right?!?!?! That is insulting to me as a longtime viewer. It shows a lack of respect for the show and its viewers, IMO.
i agree as well on all counts ;) after all sam was probably playing to avoid his father as well as it being a distraction. also at that moment, dean was still inside the house so sam didn't get to see dean yet. the scene was meant to illustrate not dean's seeming sacrifice, which i don't believe he made, it was to show us that dean knew where his real home was. he knew where he wanted to be. he knew where he belonged and who he belonged with....him looking out the window and seeing sam in such an innocent and childlike state, so often not the case for sam, just made it that much easier for dean to leave the home, which he did in fact enjoy. it's just another instance where both boys will always choose ea. other. you are right...we didn't get to see sam's reaction once he saw dean...which knowing dean as a i do would've been heartwarming. now granted i would've loved to have seen it, but i understand why show didn't go there. a bummer yes...but i get it.
My sister did her Junior Year Abroad when we were both in college. We are very close and that was pretty much the first time we'd been separated from each other for any significant amount of time in our lives. I never thought I'd survive not seeing her for so long. And she wasn't missing either, wasn't in any danger, her whereabouts weren't unknown to me. I knew where she was, knew she was safe, and happy and having fun, but that didn't diminish my intense desire to see her safe and sound for myself. We talked to each other nearly every day, wrote letters, sent postcards, pictures and emails; we communicated. When I was finally able to see her again, I was nearly bursting with anticipation. I could barely contain myself; the waiting was excruciating at the airport. And when I finally saw her again, I cried and grabbed onto her fiercely I was so relieved she was back. So, IMO even if Sam had been told the truth about Dean's whereabouts from the very beginning, it should not have diminished Sam's desire to see his bother one bit, to welcome him back, to be relieved and happy to see him regardless as to why Dean was away. Sam should have been allowed to show some type of emotion at seeing Dean again, even if he'd known his brother was fine and having a vacation, going to dances, finding a girlfriend rather than missing on possibly dead on a hunt; because that's what you do when you don't see your beloved family members for a long time; you show them they were missed.
Nappie815,Cat and Cheryl42 all while well meaning are illustrating the problem we are having by their comments.They are building up stories about what might have happened.I think we can write even better ones then they can but we do realize that it will be fanon and not canon.
As far as the age discrepancies, they probably would have been better off leaving Dean's age at 14 or 15. But, this isn't the first age/time issue the show's dealt with, going back to the pilot and Dean not having seen Sam in 2 years since he left for college, when he'd been gone for almost 4 years.
I agree w/E that the basic premise of the show was two brothers: one who is committed to the family business and the other who isn't. It makes no sense to wait until the 9th year of the show to say, "Well, the committed brother really wanted normal too," esp. when the committed brother spent a lot of the earlier seasons harping and harassing the less committed brother for grabbing normal.
And like E, I have no issue w/Dean changing his opinion on hunting. I just have a problem w/BB re-writing history to say Dean ALWAYS wanted normal. Doing so just messes up the entire show. I definitely think Dean became disillusioned w/hunting, but I think that happened for him after John died. Once John died AND left him w/the burden of saving or killing Sam, Dean began to see the negatives of hunting. Before then, I think he saw it as a noble and honorable profession. I honestly never thought Dean wanted to do anything else. However, John's death hit Dean hard, and the weight of the secret re: Sam made him rethink hunting a bit. When he was destined to die, I think he naturally thought of what it would be like to have a family. I don't think it (i.e., a wife and some kids) is something Dean always wanted. When Dean returned to the living, he could have sought a normal life, but he didn't. He dove right back into hunting. And but for Sam's promise, I don't think Dean would have wound up on Lisa/Ben's doorstep. He went to them, IMO, b/c that's where Sam asked him to go. He stayed b/c they were a distraction, and he cared about them. I had a hard time thinking Dean was in love w/Lisa. I think he cared about her a lot. He probably loved Ben. In any event, he seemed excited an happy to be leaving them, which says a lot, IMO.
Anyway, that's JMO.
We will have to agree to disagree when it comes to Lisa. Dean went to visit Lisa in S3 because he had awesome sex w/her and wanted to re-live the experience before he died. As she mentioned to him in that episode, he didn't know her and they only spent one weekend together a "million years ago." Dean was facing death that season. He thought Ben might be his child given the way Ben acted and the timeframe. I don't think it was crazy that when facing death he had dreams about a life w/this woman. I am not sure if he wanted a life w/Lisa or he wanted what Lisa/Ben represented (i.e., a family). Who knows? I can never agree that Dean was in love w/Lisa. He didn't know Lisa. How could he love her? Two years go by w/o a mention of Lisa. There's even another "love interest" thrown in the mix (i.e., Anna), but we are supposed to believe Dean when he suddenly shows up on Lisa's doorstep talking about how when he dreams of happy, he thinks of her?!?!!? Okay. Really?!? I had huge issues w/the Dean/Lisa story. It never made any sense to me and was a case of bad writing, IMO. They needed to do something w/Dean while Sam was in Hell so they stuck him w/Lisa.
But, yeah, I don't have a problem w/the Dean we see now wanting a normal life or wanting a family. I have an issue w/BB making it seem like that is something Dean has always wanted or desired. I just don't believe that is true.
on paper dean wants sam to have normal. he loves him and wants this for him. but in reality, dean needs sam. i know i'm a broken record, but going back to my belief that we have been dealing with the boys issues and how these issues influence their behavior and their beliefs, dean's lack of worth in himself, his view that he's nothing but a mere killer and his time spent in purgatory confirms this belief, his need to have sam in his life outweighs any sentiment he might have regarding his desire for sam to have normal. normal is a threat to dean. even sam dreaming about it is a threat...becaus e if sam lives a normal life, a life dean believes he can never truly live because of how he sees himself, then sam won't be there to keep dean human. to keep dean the best part of who he is. sam values dean where dean doesn't value himself and that's not something dean ever wants to give up. ...so dean's up and down actually does make sense, at least in how i view it. ;)
again, given what I believe regarding dean's issues, it also stands to reason, as I alone view it, that the moment dean saw sam through the window, smiling at his brother, sam represented the best part of who dean is. no matter whether dean is in full on embracement mode or resentment mode, depending on the circumstances, dean's issues of abandonment and self loathing/ lack of worth were always present. how he views himself influences his behavior, even when he seems self sacrificing as in bad boys. where you see AG illustrating once again how dean seemingly gives everything up for his brother....I see it as dean yet again, doing everything it takes to keep his brother with him. :)
This is what you get when you have writers who don't know the show and its characters and a showrunner who really couldn't care less: a garbled mess of an episode that rewrites history for no reason!
Quote:
It makes a whole mess of a lot of things. Sam knew about hunting. When he found out that John hunted monsters his first concerns were that the monsters could kill John or Dean or Sam. Sam said if didn't leave for normal, he left for safe. So Sam blithely playing with a plane, not caring to run and see if Dean had been hurt doesn't fit. Or it makes him look as if he NEVER cared about Dean's safety. Either way it paints kid Sam in a very bad light. I would also think that if Dean was lost on a hunt and John was hunting rugarus at the time Dean was lost, one of them would have remembered what the heck a rugaru was during Metamorphosis. But they didn't. It's really sloppy writing with the entire goal being to prove that Dean has always sacrificed for Sam the Unworthy who wasn't even worried about him when Sam thought he was missing and probably killed by a monster. The whitewash of woobie Dean was really bad in this episode.
2.03 Bloodlust
Dean: ... So. I pick up this crossbow. And I hit that ugly sucker with a silver-tipped arrow right in his heart. Sammy's waiting in the car, and uh, me and my dad take the thing into the woods, burn it to a crisp. I'm sitting there and looking into the fire, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm sixteen years old. Most kids my age are worried about pimples, prom dates. I'm seeing things that they'll never even know. Never even dream of. So right then, I just sort of -
Gordon: Embraced the life?
Dean: Yeah.
If Sam is supposed to be twelve in Bad Boys, he was already old enough to be somewhat involved in the family business. Hearing that Dean is missing would have shook him up. Sam had ended up crying himself to sleep after he found out that monster are real and they could hurt his family.
Sam: If monsters are real, then they could get us. They could get me.
Dean: Dad’s not gonna let them get you.
Sam: But what if they get him?
Dean: They aren’t gonna get Dad. Dad’s, like, the best.
Sam: I read in Dad’s book that they got Mom.
Dean: It’s complicated, Sam.
Sam: If they got Mom, they can get Dad, and if they get Dad, they can get us.
A weak solution could be that John and Dean told Sam afterwards (while driving away from Sonny’s) that Dean had been lost on a hunt. Thus while Sam was at Bobby’s, Sam thought Dean was safe and doing something else. But what would have been a believable cover story?
So if Sam was told that Dean had been lost on a hunt but now Dad had found him and they were picking Dean up, I don’t think Sam would have acted the way he was portrayed in Bad Boys. The scene of Dean looking outside and seeing his little brother playing was supposed to be just about Sam being a kid and not at all about Sam being troubled by the circumstances. Maybe the writer intended Sam to be happy that his big brother is coming back so that’s why Sam is playing with his airplane?
Sam would have been a nervous wreck if Dean went missing for two months. He would have been very suspicious of anything John told him. I always got the feeling that Sam grew up that Christmas in 1991. I believe from the moment John learned that Sam knew the truth, he was done coddling Sam. That's why he gave Sam a gun at 9 (I believe) to kill the "monster" under Sam's bed. Given what we've been shown of the Winchesters and Sam, there's no way Sam would be playing w/a toy airplane - out of the window I might add - like a clueless fool under those circumstances. It was not believable on any level, IMO.
Sam: Yeah. Uh, y-you disappeared. Dad came back. You were gone. He shipped me off to Bobby's for a couple months and went and … found you. You were lost on a hunt or something.
It was unlike Dean not to come back to the place he was staying at with Sam. Hours or even a day later John manages to come and pick Sam up. John was obviously in the middle of a hunt because Dean had been left in charge of feeding Sam and John shipped Sam off to Bobby’s. Sam stayed there for a long time. John needed to explain where Dean had gone, why he hadn’t come back, why he couldn’t call although John probably did.
But yes, I suppose John could’ve told that he had needed Dean on a job ASAP. However, Sam’s bullshit detector was probably very good. In A Very Supernatural Christmas, Sam knows he is being lied to and he finds out about the truth by himself. If he was told that Dean is fine and hunting with Dad or even working a solo case but can’t keep in contact, I don’t think Sam would have bought that story for long enough. So they had to have told that Dean is lost on a hunt while Sam was still at Bobby’s. Thus, Sam’s behavior in Bad Boys seems uncharacteristi c.
I think totally missed the rest of that exchange between the boys. Missing it wasn't a bad thing, apparently. ;)
The whole set up was ridiculous. (ETA: In my opinion, of course)
And thanks for the reminder about the rugaru mistake! Ugh . . . is there anyone in charge of this show?
Quote:This scene has also been on my mind!
Quote:Yeah, to me that chain of events seems to signal the end of Sam’s innocence, the end of childhood. He even learns that Santa is not real. So it was very weird to see Sam act in such a childlike manner in Bad Boys despite the circumstances.
Quote:Yes, there would have been hell to pay. It probably would’ve been one of those life changing moments that influenced the way Sam felt about the family business. Yet in Bad Boys that was not implied at all!
I'm not sure who wrote this episode but hopefully he brushes up on the characters before next season . . . not like Carver cares but it would be nice.
Dean: You know, when we were little— and you couldn't been more than 5— you just started asking questions. How come we didn't have a mom? Why do we always have to move around? Where'd Dad go when he'd take off for days at a time? I remember I begged you, "Quit asking, Sammy. Man, you don't want to know."
I’d say Sam should have been younger than five in Bad Boys.
For kids even staying at a summer camp can make them feel homesick. Sam was probably used to being away from John but I’ve gotten the impression that Dean was often together with Sam. So Sam should have been anxious to see his big brother again or maybe Sam would have shown some worrying signs of dissociation. Yet Sam playing with an airplane was supposed to show him as kid who is content - maybe even slightly bored of waiting.
I guess I just have to realize and accept that Supernatural's glory days - for me at least - are long over. It's just coasting along on past glory at this point.
Quote:7.14 Plucky Pennywhistle's Magical Menagerie
Dean (on phone): Hey. You remember a chain called Plucky Pennywhistle's?
Sam [after a pause] No.
Dean: Really? Could have swore you loved those places.
Sam: No, dude, I hated them. Uh, you would dump me and go trolling for chicks.
Dean: It's not like I left you in jail. I mean, those places are supposed to be fun.
Sam: Fun? Uh, they're lame. And they smell like puke. And the ice cream is all grainy.
Dean: All right, don't have one of your episodes, okay?
---
Dean: Sam... I'm sorry for... psychologically scarring you.
Sam: Which time?
Dean: Shut up. Seriously. You know, me – me ditching you when we were kids, that was a dick move. You know, the whole clown thing–
Sam: You know what, man? Honestly... getting my ass kicked by those juggalos tonight was, uh... it was therapeutic.
Dean had been old enough to be interested in trolling chicks so Sam had to have been around the age he was in Bad Boys. It’s clear Sam had had a hard time coping with being left behind (“All right, don't have one of your episodes, okay?”). When Sam was shipped off to Bobby’s and he was told that Dean is lost on a hunt and Dad is trying to find him for a long time… that should have had a lasting impact on Sam because being ditched at Plucky’s had left a mark that lasted till adulthood.
Although maybe Dean started to use Plucky’s as Sam’s babysitter after the events of Bad Boys. In that case Sam’s clown phobia could be partly due to how affected he was by the couple of months he had been separated from his father and big brother because something had gone wrong.
I am doing well! How are you? I'm glad you enjoyed this past season. Unfortunately, I did not :(
But it is nice that you did!
When you have two characters who are co-leads, whose lives are so completely intertwined, then you need to consider them both when creating plot points for one of them. Dean has ALWAYS been considered when plot issues have arisen for Sam; Sam's not looking was shown how it affected Dean; Sam taking the trials was shown how it affected Dean, Sam's possession was shown how it effected Dean. Why is the reverse not the case now that the plot points are about Dean? Sam could have been appreciative of what Dean did for him as an adult and STILL been happy to see him as a child. So my problems with this one small thing actually speak to the larger problem that I see over all in the story telling. It's a symptom; one that needs addressing and quick, because Sam is disappearing with each small moment where his characterizatio n doesn't make sense.
It may be a minor point in the grand scheme of the episode.(ETA: Of course, it's not so minor, to me)... but it is SO indicative of the lack of attention to detail and characterizatio n this season.
It ends up being more upsetting than perhaps it would have been if all the other issues weren't there.
I know, it will never happen, but it would explain a lot.
The tweet is right here.
https://twitter.com/AdamGlass44/status/401815525946187777
I was disgusted by that scene. That one and the one where Sonny notices all the bruising on Dean's arms and it's heavily implied (to me at least) that John put those bruises there.
It's also possible that I am simply waiting for the writers to put the final nail in John Winchester's coffin. What other purpose did those bruises serve? Why put them on Dean in the first place? Why even raise the question?
Ever since John died, the writers have been dead set - IMO - on making him the worst father possible. I wouldn't be shocked to learn he regularly beat the boys though that has never been implied or stated.
The fact that the writer thought it would be okay for Sam to be 6 when Dean was 14 or 16 is ridiculous! Does anyone on the staff know anything about this show?!?!
In any event, a 9-yr old Sam would NOT act that way. If the writer understood Sam at all, he would have known that.
It's also a problem that the writer never watched AVSC, which would have given him some insight on how to approach a 9-yr old Sam. This episode clearly took place after AVSC where Sam was made aware of hunting and the supernatural. I'm sure he had been given a gun by that point so I don't see that kid playing w/a toy airplane out of the window!
The child in BB grew up to start the apocalypse all alone (because: reasons), resulting in the deaths of many innocent people, whose blood is on his hands and no one else's. He would go on to be rescued, as always, by his older brother (who is always getting him out of scrapes) who then saved the world from the apocalypse for him.
Actually I could see BB being the spin-off for an AU that I could very happily ignore ;)
It is really sad how OOC Sam has been written since Carver took over. I felt bad for Jared last year having to deal w/Carver's OOC writing, and I feel for him this year being a complete non-entity on the show. Honestly, if Sam/Jared were removed from the entire second half of the season, absolutely nothing would have changed. Heck, he wasn't needed in the first half of the season either. Lately, he is so often written as a plot point that it's ridiculous.
Also, glad to see you here again lala2! I'm glad you decided to share your thoughts on Sam. I just think something went very wrong but the reasons why go beyond my limited article space.
The reason I hate BB over Bloodlines, Bitten, or familiar/witch episode is those episodes did not, IMO, fundamentally change the show or the characters. I see BB as changing everything I thought I knew about Dean. Instead of having a desire for normal as an adult who had gone through horrible experiences, we learn that Dean always wanted normal. Okay. Fine, but that really calls into question why he has harped on, harassed, and insulted Sam for going to college or even being w/the horrible (sorry . . . my opinion) Amelia. Why did Sam have to apologize for "leaving the family" if Dean has also always wanted a normal life? It makes Dean a petty, jealous hypocrite, IMO, and I would prefer to not see him that way.
John . . . need I say more. Every time an episode mentions him, he becomes a worse father, IMO. I have no idea why Dean gambled away and/or lost the food money but given what we know about Dean and John, I'm sure Dean was trying to stretch out the money John gave. I honestly don't think Dean recklessly decided to gamble away the food money. I just don't see him doing that knowing he had to feed himself and Sam w/that money. John was probably gone longer than expected. I mentioned elsewhere that the inclusion of the bruises in the episode also threw me for a loop. No, Dean didn't say John hit him but I guess I've just been waiting for that shoe to drop so my mind went there. Was there a point to Dean being bruised up except for Sonny to think Dean was being abused by John? It's not like Sonny talked to Dean's social worker so what was the point of that scene? Do we really believe John just let Dean stay in this boys' home as punishment? We've always been told he kept a tight leash on the boys so I don't believe he would just let Dean stay at that home for a few months.
And Sam . . . . poor Sam. He was written poorly in the past and present. Adult Sam has no feelings about the time Dean was missing on a hunt but had really been at a boys home. I would expect that adult Sam would have some type of reaction to that news other than the non-reaction he was given. And past Sam's characterizatio n was completely off. That episode definitely ranks as my least favorite episode of Supernatural.
Sam isn’t having an identity crisis, because under Carver, Sam does not have an identity to suffer a crisis from (or however that is phrased). Sam is there to serve one purpose, to be the catalyst for Dean angst and Dean action, nothing more. Once that is done, knock him out or tie him up or tell him to leave or lie to him so that he’ll bugger off somewhere else. Sam is like the chameleon of the show now, he is whatever the show needs him to be in order to further the woobification of Dean. His actions, his words, don’t merit explanation because to do so would not only take focus away from Dean’s feels and it also it means if his words or actions are explained then they can't be used as a reason for why Dean does what he does/thinks what he thinks. Last season, had Sam sat down and clearly explained to Dean that he believed Dean was dead and that’s why he didn’t try and bring him back, and made sure that Dean heard him (though that would entail Dean unclogging the wax of self pity and self righteousness out of his ears and Carver’s Dean is incapable of doing that), then there would be fewer doubts in Dean’s mind about how high he stands in Sam’s estimation.
Ditto with the possession, the focus could not be on the possession itself or the effect that it had on Sam because to do so would take time and focus away from the effect that it had on Dean. (That scene in Road Trip when Dean walks away from Sam being tortured because he ‘can’t watch that anymore’ really epitomises that. Dean can’t face the consequences of what he’s responsible for and so he walks away. And that time is used to tell us that Dean’s flaw is that he is too ‘trusting’. Forget about the guy being tortured, forget about the possession, forget about the dead prophet; focus on the Dean feels. Nauseatingly manipulative stuff and it shows us that there are no lengths the show won’t go to in minimising other characters so that Dean can be talked up.) And let’s face it; there was no focus on the possession itself. Being possessed has gone from something heinous in past seasons to being like having a roommate, with benefits for Dean because he could use Gadreel to do whatever he wanted, this season. (Though Dean did make a joke about Sam being possessed by Meg in season 2 so I’m sure why I expected any different now.) What was the terrible effect of the possession; nightmares. Well, big fucking wow. You know when we first saw Sam have nightmares on the show; Wendigo, episode 1.2, nine years ago. Yet we’re to think that nightmares are such a terrible consequence to being possessed as to warrant Sam being angry?? Yeah, Carver really pushed the boat out in terms of effort, explanation and imagination with that one, didn’t he? When did we find out about these terrible, terrible nightmares that Sam was suffering from (and Sam has probably been having nightmares since he found out about hunting when he was eight) in the last third of the final episode of the season...... Kinda says it all. And why was there no focus on the possession or the effect it had on Sam? Because to do so would take focus and sympathy away from Dean, and that just is not allowed on the show.
Sam’s record with Carver has not been good. He has spent half a season being metaphorically shat upon by all and sundry, to being sick for half a season, to not being Sam for half a season, to being irrelevant for half a season so I’m not exactly hopeful about what Carver will bring us for Sam next season. I’m expecting plenty of talk about how Sam didn’t appreciate Dean enough and it’s all his fault and if only he was a better brother and a better person then Dean wouldn’t have been forced to become a demon (Hey, it’s SPN. When’s the last time Dean’s actions weren’t made out to be someone else’s fault?) Sam is there to make Dean look good. He’s there to serve Dean. If Sam’s strength is making Dean look weak then don’t make Dean stronger, take away Sam’s strength. If Sam’s morals are making Dean look bad, take away Sam’s morals. If Sam’s desire for independence is causing Dean pain, take away his desire for independence etc etc.
And for those who are hoping for Sam’s POV next season, sorry lads, but dream on. First of all, why would they do that? They haven’t shown Sam have a regular POV since season 3, why would they do it now? Secondly, for Sam to have a POV he first of all needs to have his character nailed down, and he doesn’t. For heaven sake, some of the writers can’t get the age of the character right, yet these are guys who are trusted with getting his characterisatio n and POC right? Sam constantly changing to serve whatever purpose the show needs suits the show. It makes for easy writing later on. To have Sam talk or explain himself etc will nail down something concrete about the character, and that won't work for the purpose they are using Sam for these days.
Add to that, there is no guarantee that it will be Sam who will cure Dean. I wouldn’t even assume that it will be Sam; given how irrelevant and incompetent he has been shown to be in the past two seasons. Sam will probably set everything up to save him and then manage to knock himself out at the final minute, paving the way for Castiel to step in and once again, be the one that saves Dean from demonhood. (I can’t see why not. Everything else in season 8 and 9 has been done before.)
On an aside, kudos to JP for his work this year. Were it not for him Sam would literally have been mute wallpaper. (Though were it not for his stellar acting he’d probably have gotten more lines because they wouldn’t be able to use the ‘Jared can tell so much with just his expression’ excuse any more. Ah, where talent is a double edged sword!) It must have been hard for him to try and make a working character out of minimal exposition but he did it very well.
I don't take away that dean is an awesome hunter or a brother who loves sam more than he loves himself. but he is flawed and I think these last two seasons have been focusing on his flaws. then again, as I mentioned, I think that's what this story has been about. the boys facing their monsters. you see, I don't look at dean becoming a demon because of anything sam did...dean did this to himself. dean becoming a demon has everything to do with his own issues of lack of self worth in himself. it's been a long running theme in this show. it's nothing new. dean's issue has prevented him from maturation. imho he still behaves like a child at times. his selective hearing, his inability to admit when he's done wrong...these are not the signs of a mature adult. dean Winchester has done a lot of good, don't get me wrong, but dean Winchester is still basically the boy he was so many years ago. he hasn't learned from his mistakes. he still hasn't learned to accept responsibility and deal with it in a constructive manner. instead of facing his brother, he decided to run away and take on the moc as punishment. instead of facing his fears he runs from them...he'll run straight for a monster but he'll run away from himself. :(
I don't think the end scene in bad boys was about dean making another sacrifice for sam at all. I think it just further illustrates dean's need for his brother and what he'll do to keep sam in his life. because as we were told in devils trap and as was shown so many times since, dean needs them more than they need him. he can't be alone and that has more to do with how he feels about himself.
I know dean loves sam, just as I know sam loves dean. but what we've seen through the years in regards to dean is a smothering love that's brought harm to others. dean is the only one who isn't able to see this. I don't see sam in a negative light at all. I've seen sam do nothing but fight. he's been fighting his own inner turmoil. he's fighting to keep his relationship with his brother. he's been fighting dean to make him see that sam loves him , he's been doing that for quite some time now. sam is a man who is basically fighting a child...how does one fight a child? it's not easy. you have to be careful. you have to let that child know they need to stop making these mistakes, they need to know that actions have consequences, you have to make them understand that just because you don't always want the same things or see things the same way it doesn't mean they don't love you with their dying breath...but most of all, a child must be able to change...to grow...to let go...all of these things which sam has accomplished and dean has yet to.
this season hasn't been about dean being the most self sacrificing woobie in the history of tv,, this season and last have focused on dean's inner issues full on and in Technicolor and his inability to deal with them. dean didn't turn into a demon because of anything sam has done. dean turned into a demon because of what he has done. dean did this to himself.
PLEASE stop this. Just because you disagree, does NOT make the concerns of the people on this thread "SILLY".
Your disagreement has been made clear through the course of the discussion. There is NO NEED to insult the people who post here.
Thank you.
btw...I was not offended at all by what you said...but then I really don't get offended unless it gets personal.
Thanks
I know you lean towards dean more, so I hope my post didn't upset you or leah for that matter. last season, the first half, I was so angry with dean I actually fast forwarded all the dean/benny parts in blood brother and watched only the sam parts...and they werent even all that interesting:D,( not a big fan of Amelia but I understood her purpose)...then as I was reading some of the posts from the middle of this season, many who expressed their ennui with dean's wallowing, it just dawned on me and I connected the dots and came to the conclusion of the story I feel carver is trying to tell. I gotta tell you, it made me feel so much better, cuz I didn't like being angry with dean for half a season and I felt bad that I didn't really feel sympathy for him this season, not til the last eppy...but when I realized I wasn't supposed to..it took the frustration away....I don't get angry at dean anymore...I understand him now....I may have been harsh in my thinking and if it upset you, i'm sorry it wasn't my intention...but I think we're seeing the worst part of dean now...so we can get back to the best part of him...which I know is in there, as does sam. ;)
percy,
do you think it's possible to create a thread where people can discuss sam Winchester with positivity? I mean this thread is titled sam Winchester: a deeper look. there is no indication in the title that this was intended to be a bitterness thread. I came in here anxious to read about all the sam love...boy did I end up at the airport when I should've been at the train station:). it's very overwhelming in here for those of us who don't have such a negative outlook, but there's no other thread available to discuss sam Winchester either. isn't it possible to do two threads? I mean they would be the exact same review, only one of the titles can say a deeper look into sam Winchester the positive side of things...or something like that? it's just that, I think that some of us who don't feel as negative as others do don't really feel welcome here, it's like we're the nerds who crashed the fraternity party
just a thought...
It is interesting to me that a lot of the criticisms of every Dean action come from the same people who think that Dean is "never shown" as wrong or is always portrayed in a sympathetic way. How can Dean be seen as a jerk for the best part of 2 years and still be seen as always "right" and so very sympathetic. I find that dichotomy amusing.
And it may come as a huge shock to you but I am actually a Sam girl. I love both brothers but yeah love my Sam. But I will defend Dean anytime anywhere.
hey leah,
i'm glad I didn't upset you. it's just that last year I really started getting upset that I started not liking dean. I was mad at me. I didn't like it. I wanted to thrash that boy for the first half of the season. then I felt better the second half and I remember trying so hard to find reasons for dean behaving the way he did in the first half. it wasn't until the middle of this season after reading, I believe njspn fan's post about how he was tiring of dean's pity party. this is a guy's opinion and even he felt the need to gripe about it....then it occurred to me that maybe that's what we are supposed to be doing....maybe we're supposed to be taking notice of dean's behavior as it's been these last couple of seasons and maybe we're supposed be seeing the worst part of who dean is...
the way I've seen this season and last is they're finally tackling the subject of our boys issues and how that influences their way of thinking and how they misperceive ea. other...especia lly the way they love ea. other.
I appreciate your apology, and I'm glad that wasn't your intent. I admit to being on a "hair trigger" since one of the (many) reasons I stopped posting here before was the reaction to my opinion.
I would like to think that I would call anyone ("positive" or "negative") out for what I consider to be a rudeness. I haven't seen a lot on this thread, mostly just "I'm glad you're happy, but I'm not" kind of posts.
I'm not asking you to leave the thread, just to be a bit more careful in your wordage. :)
Thanks.
Having said that though, I am not at all convinced that TPTB understand that some of us feel this way, or that this was their intention. They've never been edgy or controversial or even remotely risky with Dean's character; he's almost never shown in a bad light, so I don't believe that they are doing so now. I get your interpretation, that you think his behavior is being highlighted so that they can address a much needed change, and maybe that is one way of looking at it. But I'm not sure that's how Carver and Co. see Dean, or that this is where they are going with the story. We won't know of course until season 10 gets under way (October seems like a loooooong way off), but my take on this is far more pessimistic than yours. I think that Carver is highlighting Dean's story as the big crisis of the poor put-upon hero in trouble, the brave soldier abandoned to fight alone, and that we ARE supposed to feel sorry for him. The reason I think this goes back to POV and how much Dean got and how little (as in basically none) that Sam, as the counterargument to what Dean's going through and the character that Dean is at odds with, has had. I am of the opinion that not only are we supposed to be feeling badly for Dean, that we are also supposed to feel as though Dean's troubles are in some measure Sam's fault. If we aren't supposed to feel for Dean, then why have Sam say such terrible, harsh things to him, and then have him not explain fully what he means? Sam left Dean to rot in purgatory for a girl, Sam almost died and didn't appreciate it when Dean saved him. Sam withheld his trust and love, all of which pushed Dean toward the Mark, making him vulnerable to its affects. The story never counteracted any of those notions about Sam's culpability that they themselves set forth, so I am of the opinion that we are supposed to take it at face value. If we aren't supposed to feel Dean's pain and anguish and see Sam's side of things then why show us how hurt Dean is over and over, but give us no information about how hurt Sam is? If we aren't supposed to blame Sam then why have him make questionable choices such as not to look for Dean when he was missing, or to declare that they are no longer brothers and then refuse to allow us to see and hear Sam's rationale? Why are other characters (Cas, Kevin, even Crowley) validating Dean's feelings of sorrow, but then calling into questions Sam's motives (as was done repeatedly in season 8). Why is Dean bringing up his side of the conflict again and again without Sam ever correcting him or defend himself or even offering up another way of looking at things? How are we to deduce that Dean is incorrect in his thinking when his side of the argument is the only one presented? The one who ended up looking wrong here, was Sam. If you want to highlight someone's behavior as being negative or needing to change, then you've got to frame that behavior and have it countered by someone else in the show. The only two characters in the position to do this are Sam and Castiel. Sam has not been allowed to highlight Dean's behavior as he sees it, OR been allowed to show us his side, as he's not even finished a sentence in almost two years. Castiel has not only NOT criticized Dean, he's triumphed his behavior by calling him "too trusting" about the possession and complimenting his willingness to "try and save everyone." So, not critical at all and even heroic seeming.
Why, if we are supposed to be critical of Dean's behavior were we given feature episodes like Dog Dean Afternoon that remind us how lovable and funny Dean is, or Rock and a Hard Place that show us how endearing and sexy he is? or like Thinman, First Born, AND A4 which all showcased how much of a badass and efficient hunter Dean is? Or like Bad Boys which reminds us how sacrificial Dean's always been, especially where Sam is concerned. Why, if we are supposed to be questioning his mindset does Dean get heartfelt discussions with various characters like Cas, Crowley, Charlie, Garth and even a dead Kevin that showcases the depth of his emotions, his guilt and sorrow, over and over again? Where were the feature episodes that showed us how endearing, sacrificial, funny, or smart or bad ass Sam is? (although it's pretty hard to be a badass when you are unconscious for half the season). Where was Sam's heartfelt conversation to ghost Kevin where he could have revealed that he was being plagued by nightmares? Instead of a heartfelt confession to ghost Kevin pouring out his heart about how bad he felt, Sam got chastised by said ghost for "refusing to let it go." Sam was in a room with Kevin's mom and was forced to be the one to tell her that her son was dead and even then, he we got zero insight into how he was feeling or what he was suffering. Why leave all that potential insight out if you are in fact trying to call into the questionable behavior of one character by showing the effects on the other? There were no effects on Sam, so therefore it's impossible to view Dean's actions as wrong. Why was Sam made to walk away all the time leaving the camera to linger on Dean's suffering, heartbroken face? No, I can't see it; I don't think TPTB are showcasing the problem or incorrectness of Dean's behavior whatsoever. On the contrary, I think all the support, all the insight has been for Dean and because of that, we are supposed to champion Dean's behavior. Episodes like Bad Boys seems almost like a preemptive strike against the things that Sam might get angry about, reminding all of us that Dean's motives regarding Sam were "pure" so that we'd remember that when Sam accuses him of being selfish. If I wasn't pre-disposed toward Sam in the first place, I'd never figure we are supposed to be on his side in this argument, not by what we've been shown of this conflict so far. I don't think the show supports Sam's side at all, especially when compared with the mountain of insight we've gotten for Dean ad naseaum this season and if the show can's support Sam, then it's tough for the fans to do so either.
first off, if the end scene were to have any credibility at all sam should have been 4 years old. If I had been writing the script, I would have made dean 9 and sam 4. I can totally see dean getting kissed for the first time at age 9. the reason I say this is because....had adam binge watched the early seasons of sam and dean Winchester he might have remembered this pretty well known and most likely the most memorized speech dean has ever given:
"you know when we were little. you couldn't have been more than five. you started asking questions. why don't we have a mom, where did dad go, why do we have to move around so much. I remember I kept telling you, quit asking Sammy, you don't want to know, I just wanted you to be a kid for a little while longer....
so 5 year old sam was already curious and asking very grown up questions... by the time sam is 8, he already knows about monsters...and sadly learns that santa isn't real...but I think the point is that I don't think sam was ever a clueless kid. not post age 5 anyway.
one more thing that doesn't compute in this story. if dean had in fact gone off to steal so sam could eat, there's two ways to go here:
1. dean ditched sam while he was awake and told him he'd be back soon. I would assume that if dean hadn't returned that night, sam would've been frantic. it's just not a memory he would forget....and if that was the case, how did dean go from getting sam food to being lost on a hunt? does one think that dean would tell sam, i'm going on a hunt now...be good....be back soon. just doesn't compute.
or
2. a scenario which is more likely is that dean snuck out when sam was asleep, like he did in something wicked. he got busted. the cops called his dad. in the meantime you have sam, a 9 yr old kid, sleeping alone in a hotel room with no idea that his brother isn't there...which makes dean look like an ass. then sam wakes up in the morning to find dad there and not dean...and then his dad tells him that dean is lost on a hunt? wouldn't sam ask his dad...when did dean go on a hunt? that story doesn't compute. what really doesn't make sense is that john wouldn't have found dean for two months?
even if sam was told the story after the fact, sam still wouldn't have believed the story because sam was with dean in the bungalow. so sam would've remembered that dean had gone out....I really don't believe that sam would have fallen for that story....dean wouldn't go on a hunt and not tell sam. or at most leave sam a note so when sam got up in the morning and dean wasn't there..he wouldn't panic.
no, the only saving grace for this eppy would've been for the writer to adjust the age of sam and dean to a younger age. it would've made sense too because a younger dean would definitely have that dream of living normal and being a normal kid. dean so would've been kissed for the first time at age 9, it would make sense that he'd get busted stealing as he'd be newer at doing it, and then I can see that heartwarming ending where a very young dean chooses to be with a very young sam....that ending would've made people a lot happier I think....
so I will contend that the writing for this eppy was extremely lax.....
I still love this season and I still have no problems overall with how sam was written. I still hold this season to be one of my faves. ;)
But I do wonder why of all of the scenarios they came up with why one that super-SPN fans (which I am not) would spot in an instant. I understand the time at the home was not known to Sam so they had to come up with another story other than Dean caught stealing and sent to a boys home. But what other story would have worked better? Sam couldn't know the truth or the story wouldn't have worked. So it would have to have been believable for a 9 year old Sam aware of hunting that would make it ok for Dean to be gone for a couple of months even with John with him. I really think it was a good episode except for the beginning set up couldn't hold up under scrutiny (not even going to mention the rugaru). So speculate what would you write to make it work.
And can I just say how awesome this discussion is? 260+ comments!! :o:D
Yep, not sure what is going to be left to discuss when this episode actually gets reviewed
I have a theory.
We need to account for:
Grownup Sam having no memory of
being abandoned in a motel room at the age of 9 with no food and no money (since Dean was gambling for the former with the latter) for 2-3 days
being worried about Dean being missing at the time
Grownup Sam:
being cool about the reason he was told at the time
not wondering why Dean was out of contact for the next couple of months
being unphased by the realisation NOW that he hadn't been worried THEN.
And young Sam:
being uninterested in where they were and why waiting (in the car)
playing with a toy airplane instead of being the perceptive little critter we know he was (though honestly I don't have a problem with this in itself, but it fits my theory)
Hypnotism! (no wait! Come back. Hear me out! It only requires a LITTLE bit of pretzeling)
So, right, John comes back to the motel to find Sam totally wigging out because he can't get hold of Dean. John doesn't want to tell him where Dean is, and that he is ok, because Sam will nag and nag him to fetch Dean back. I don't know why John wouldn't just TELL Sam, except it seems to be against family rules to tell Sam stuff, erm .... Sam is maybe manifesting his powers a little and it freaks John out and he needs to calm him down., yeah that will do for a reason ... John hypnotizes Sam, perhaps uses the airplane as a focus point to snap Sam in and out of the hypnotized state (this being a supernatural show so it could be a spell instead) and then leaves him with Bobby for a while. Sam accepts everything that he is told, and when Dean comes back Dean and John work on convincing Sam that there was never an issue - his memory is playing tricks on him etc.... And the whole thing is an allegory of the overall storyline of Season 9.
Who's with me on this?
*tumbleweed* ;)
It often involves 'the fundamental interconnectedn ess of all things' but, it can be done!
Question: when was the last time an episode was written in which Dean learned something about Sam in the way Sam supposedly learned something about Dean in Bad Boys? (although, Sam in fact DIDN'T learn anything about Dean that he didn't already know other than he was complicit in a cruel lie told to him as a child and is just find out about 23 years later, but that's what the episodes aim was...). So, can anyone tell me the last time we saw an ENTIRE EPISODE that was devoted totally to Sam's background and POV in which Dean was made aware of something about his brother that was not previously known? Anyone? Mystery Spot? I Know What You Did… although Dean didn't learn much….I got nothing since season 4. Plucky's had it's moments but Dean and we STILL have no idea why Sam's afraid of clowns.
It makes more sense than just dropping Sam to Bobbys and that was the end of it because I have a hard time believing that Bobby of all people would have went along with John's plan. Surely Bobby would have explained to John that just telling Sam that Dean was alive and safe and temporarily staying in a boys home because he was caught stealing (and Sam already knew that Dean stole so it's not as if he would have been too shocked at that) would be a much better idea than telling Sam that Dean found and went on a hunt on his own (in the time it took him to walk to the grocery story) and was now 'lost' (and possibly presumed dead).
The other thing is that Dean is very aware of the people he has saved. Hunting provides him with a purpose and allows him to feel he is a success who contributes to making a better world. It is partly why Dean finds it almost impossible to quit hunting, because he believes that he is worthless if he's not saving people by hunting.
The truth is that Sam isn't a douchebag. In seasons one and two he may have been somewhat classist but by season eight, he was happy being a handyman at a motel, so I think that he no longer has those same values. Dean has other ways he could make the world a better place if he didn't hunt. Being a good husband and father makes the world a better place too. But Dean's insecurities and fears keep him from believing Sam loves him enough to want to be with him unless they are hunting living together 24/7. They also keep Dean from being able to even explore the idea of leaving hunting and finding a place in the world that will make the world better outside of hunting. WIAWSNB lays a great foundation for why Dean he keeps pulling Sam back into hunting, for why he couldn't make it work with Lisa, for why he can't accept Sam's desire for a different life. All of Dean's damage is on display here. But this world is not an accurate representation of what would have happened if Mary had lived.
I think carver said it in I think i'm going to like it hear and it goes back to my theory that the last two seasons has been about the boys coming face to face with their own demons. look at the words dean/zeke/gad used to get sam to stay......there ain't no me if there ain't no you. I think that says it all regarding dean's psyche. he said it. he feels he's nothing without sam. yes, hunting gives him purpose. he saves people and he does feel like he's making the world a better place and this is all true. but I don't think dean embraced hunting because it was his true calling, because as we've learned he does have other skills that make him happy and feel good. dean's issue of lack of worth and his own self hatred are the contributing factors in his need to hunt and save people. because he's also admitted to being a killer, someone you don't want at your dinner table. dean has said that the boys keep ea. other human. it's dean's lack of worth that drives him to keep sam with him. it's part of why he's conflicted...he 's so up and down in regards to sam and his own dreams. because I really do believe he wants sam to have safe and normal, but the other part of him is stronger and won't give sam up.
John: Sam....you are going to Bobbys for a few months.
Sam: Cool... Dean and I love uncle bobby.
John: Dean isn't going.
Sam: what? Why?
John: I'm sending Dean to a survivalist camp for training.
Sam: Training? what kind of training? Can I go with Dean? Where is this place?
John: No. Your going to Bobbys.
Sam: But where is this training camp?
John. I said enough, Sam. Go pack your bag.
Present day: Sam. I remember...Dad sent you to that survivalist camp for traiining and i got shipped to bobbys for two months.
Dean: It wasn't a camp. I wan in a boys home. I got caught stealing.
or not and it is what it is....and the writer simply screwed up. :p;)
Your review of Sam in season 9 is pretty insightful though. I try to understand why he does things the way he does, but it just comes down to the writers making him do things that are completely out of character. By season 9 I'm kind of used to it, it bothered me the most in season 7. I don't know how the writers can expect someone to be okay after 180 years of hell, never talking about it. It's like it's just forgotten. Things do seem to be improving a bit in season 10 though. I liked seeing the return of a determined Sam.