In Part One of my Deeper Look at Dean Winchester, Dean is barely clinging on to control of the Mark of Cain. In part two, the wheels fall off the wagon. Eventually.
“About A Boy”
Dean is anxious to find that cure now. He knows, as does Sam, that the wheels are starting to fall off the wagon. He does actually talk to Sam this time! He’s still feeling guilty about Charlie, forgiveness or not. Sam has the perfect cure, time to work a case.
Dean does have a small stroke of luck and meets a woman in a bar with as many hard luck stories as him. This week, that little encounter offers perspective, especially when they both have been turned into young teenagers. If anything, it reminds Dean what it’s like to get to save the girl. It also gives him a glimpse of life without that Mark. It’s an interesting dilemma. Remain a teenager and not have the MOC anymore, and hope it stays away when he reaches his age some twenty plus years later, or try to go back to his current self and live with it.
In the end, the choice was easy. Turn himself back so he can save Sam and Tina. He pulled a “Dean Winchester.” Dean will take the win this time.
“Halt and Catch Fire”
I don’t think I can buy that the victim of the week’s situation can parallel Dean’s Mark of Cain drama, but they tried anyway. One take away, he regrets! (yes, they’re stalling).
Dean: I have made more mistakes that I can count. Ones that haunt me day and night.
Delilah: So…how do you deal?
Dean: Whiskey, denial. I do my best to make things right, whatever they may be.
Dean and Sam have their closing moment though and Dean is doubting that a cure can be found. The answer is with him. “I’m not just gonna give up. I appreciate the effort, okay? I do. But the answer is not out there. It’s with me. I need to be the one calling the shots here, okay? I can’t keep waking up every morning with false hope. I got to know where I stand. Otherwise, I’m gonna lose my freakin’ mind. So I’m gonna fight it til I can’t fight it anymore. And when all is said and done, I’ll go down swinging."
Those might be inspirational words, but considering the next episode is the Cain one, we all knew that wasn’t going to last.
“The Executioner’s Song”
Oh boy, the beginning of the end! Poor Dean, this time circumstances are beyond his control. He’s forced into dealing with Cain, the only other holder of the Mark. It’s clear after years of resistance the MOC has corrupted Cain in the worst way. His plan is genocide of all his descendants and he’s gotten off to a gruesome start.
This is one of the hardest tasks Dean has ever had to face and his confrontation here seems like a crafty parallel to Sam’s decision to say yes to Lucifer in “Swan Song.” The chickens have come to roost so to speak, and this is all on him. He’s scared and has every right to be. He’s in a sense jumping into his own cage, knowing that if he comes out of this he won’t be the same. Even worse, the MOC could finally take control and Dean becomes the monster every bit as lethal as Cain. A lot is on the line.
Dean: When he gave me the Mark, Cain said that this day would come, that after I killed Abaddon, I would have to come and put him down.
Sam: Great. So you’re taking orders from a madman.
Dean: No, he wasn’t mad then. Cain resisted the Mark for a long time, then I came, kicking up trouble about the blade. I sent him down this path. This is on me.
Sam: It doesn’t mean you have to be the one to go after him.
Dean: Yes it does. And there’s only one thing that can kill him.
Sam: The blade.
Castiel: Dean’s right.
Sam: Dean, wielding the Blade against Cain himself…win or lose, you may never come back from that fight.
Dean: I know.
Dean is painfully aware what can happen, evidenced by his answer to Crowley about giving the First Blade back. “If I survive and I come out of there and I don’t give it back, you’ll all have a much bigger problem on your hands.” But Cain did so much worse than force Dean’s hand to kill him. He messed with his head, foretelling a couple of very dangerous prophecies.
Cain: Look at my example boy! There is no resisting the Mark or the Blade. There is only remissions and relapse!...This may be hard to believe, in light of what I’m about to do to you, but I care about you, Dean. I truly do. But I know I’m doing you a favor. I’m saving you.
Dean: Saving me from what?
Cain: From your fate. Has it never occurred to you? Have you ever mused upon the fact that you’re living my life in reverse? My story began when I kill my brother, and that’s where your story inevitably will end.
Dean: No, never.
Cain: It’s called the Mark of Cain for a reason! First you’d kill Crowley. There’d be some strange, mixed feelings on that one, but you’d have your reason. You’d get it done, no remorse. And then you’d kill the angel Castiel. Now, that one, that I suspect would hurt something awful. And then! Then would come the murder you’d never survive, the one that would finally turn you into as much of a savage as it did me.
Dean: No.
Cain: Your brother, Sam. The only thing standing between you and that destiny is this Blade. You’re welcome my son.
Dean bests Cain and with much distress and reluctance, delivers the fatal blow with the First Blade. Cain is dead and Dean is devastated. It’s all because he knows that as long as he has that Mark, Cain’s prophecy will likely come to be. That is going to mess with his head from here on out. Sure, Dean throughout this series has been a “prophecy be damned” sort of guy, but given his struggle with the MOC, he just might be believing he isn't strong enough to fight it this time.
At the end, after Sam gives him encouraging words about holding it together after killing Cain. “You know, if you can do that without losing yourself…that’s cause for hope, even without a cure.” Dean excuses himself and is seen rolling his eyes out in the hall. He’s not buying Sam’s words of hope at all. Oh yes Sam, we know, Dean’s in trouble for sure.
“The Things That They Carried”
Dean knows Sam is still trying to find a solution to get rid of the Mark, and he’s not being supportive anymore. They have to face the truth and in the meantime, they can work the case. They do.
“Paint It Black”
I would quibble that this is irrelevant, but I think the confessional scene did capture something about Dean’s frame of mind.
“You know, the life I live, the work I do…I pretty much figured that that was all there was to me, you know? Tear around and jam the key in the ignition and haul ass until I ran out of gas. I guess I just thought sooner or later, I’d go out the same way that I live – pedal to the metal, and that would be it.”
"Now, um…recent events, uh, make me think I might be closer to that than I really thought. And, I don’t know. I mean, you know, there’s – there’s things, there’s…people, feelings that I want to experience differently than I have before, or maybe even for the first time.”
Dean wants to experience more in life. I would actually call this little flash of perspective, one that may or may not be relevant later, to be far more healthier than Sam’s perspective on things right now. It’s kind of refreshing to see. But is it really Dean’s desire or just a set of writers trying to do some filler? Given his upcoming beach speech to Sam (waiting for it…), perhaps that it’s the POV of a dying man coming to terms with the end of his life. He does have a lot to experience yet.
“Inside Man”
While Sam’s story ramps up a bit, Dean becomes the guy in the dark behind it all. He’s getting worse, the nightmare he had in the beginning of the episode his biggest clue. But also, he knows Sam is lying to him, but he doesn’t care. He’s off to do fun stuff, like be a dick and steal money from normal guys playing pool. Oh yeah, Rowena shows, but that’s just her seeing the power of the Mark of Cain and getting involved in this whole mess. It’s a curse. Uh oh, way to open a can of worms.
However, I do love Dean’s little talk to Crowley about his mother. It just goes to show, he still has a soft spot for the King of Hell and vice versa. There’s still the real Dean Winchester in there somewhere.
“Book of the Damned”
Dean tells Sam that the MOC is a curse. That as well as Charlie’s arrival sets up the whole ill fated chain of events…
Oh, let’s just get to the beach speech. It just makes me smile.
Dean: We’re due for a win, okay? Overdue. I’ll tell you another thing, if this actually does work, we’re gonna take some time off.
Sam: What, like a vacation?
Dean: Mm-hmm. And I’m not talking just like a weekend in Vegas or sitting in some crap motel watching pay-per-porn. No, I’m talking about a beach. Drinking cervezas, go for a swim, mingle with the local wildlife. When was the last time either one of us was on a beach?
Sam: Never.
Dean: Sam between our toes, Sammy, sand between our toes.
Dean is hopeful, until he feels that book. Oh no, this is not going to work. It’s evil! The Mark knows it. When the Stynes come for the book, Dean demands that Sam destroy it. He knows deep down it is for the best of everyone, despite the fact that it means he keeps the MOC. He finds his “win” in Castiel getting his grace back instead. When he finds out…
“The Werther Project”
Dean is feeling edgy for sure and is finding more productive and reckless ways to deal with his bloodlust, like take out a vampire’s nest all by himself. All in a day’s work! He knows Sam is bothered by this, but in a role reversal from Sam's days with demon blood, he's getting very irritated by Sam's attitude toward him.
Dean: Come on, man. It’s the only way I can take the edge off. I’m sorry. I don’t always like to wait around for you, especially with you looking at me like that all the time.
Sam: Look at you like what?
Dean: Like that. Like I’m some sort of a-a-a diseased killer puppy.
Despite his irritation with Sam though, when Sam runs off by himself to work a case Dean tracks him down. He wants to help and feels guilty. He doesn't seem like a guy overcome by the Mark of Cain and not as bad as Sam is believing. But after he's affected by the enchanctment and sees Benny, that look inside what Dean is truly feeling right now is fascinating. He's scared and that's because he knows deep down his "plan B" is flawed.
Benny: Remember what you said to me when we first met? About the purity of this place? Dean, slow down. Dean, stop. Listen. This…. This place you don’t have to go looking for a fight. All you have to do is be still for one moment, and that fight will come to you. That’s why you’re here, Dean. That’s the purity you crave – killing with no consequence.
Dean: No, Benny. I don’t wanna fight anymore. I’m tired of fighting.
Benny: The Mark ain’t. So, can’t leave, don’t wanna stay, bit of a bind ain’t it? Good thing there’s always a third way out. You can’t say you haven’t been thinking about it.
Dean: That ain’t gonna happen, ever.
Benny: Come on, Dean. I know you can see it. The purity, the honor.
Dean: There’s no honor in that.
Benny: What., you just wanna wait for the Mark to reclaim you? Go out swinging, die topside, then what? Maybe kill a few humans? Kill Cas? Kill your brother? Yeah, that’s mighty honorable!
Dean: Benny, shut up!
Benny: Oh, I-I’m sorry. I forgot… about your plan. You gonna get Sam and Cas to put you down? You really think that they’re gonna keep that agreement? Come on. Dean, let’s say they do. Do you think they will ever recover from that? It will ruin them. This little backup plan of yours, I know you’ve been thinking about it for a time, I know it’s been gnawin’ at you. You can’t leave that job to them.
This is the real inner Dean. His hope that Sam and Castiel will take him out when the Mark of Cain takes over isn't realistic and he knows it. He doesn't want to fight anymore but the Mark of Cain won't let him be. It's because of the Mark of Cain though that Dean overcomes the enchantment and saves Sam in time. To him, death is not an option. The Mark wants him alive. He wants to be alive with his brother. It's no accident that the Werther Box needed blood from both of them and they would have died if they had gone on their separate ways.
"The universe is trying to tell us something we both should already know. We’re stronger together than apart."
“Angel Heart”
Was Dean in this? Oh right, he played mini golf with a teenager. And he snapped in the bar, just to prove to us he’s getting worse.
Dean does tell Claire this at the end of the episode though, just to reinforce what we’ve been seeing all season long:
Claire: Are you gonna be okay?
Dean: Me? I don’t know. But I will keep fighting. I’ll keep swinging until I got nothing left.
“Dark Dynasty”
Ugh. Alright, there’s one important moment. Dean finds out that Sam didn’t burn the Book of the Damned. His confrontation of Sam is downright creepy! Hovering over his brother, looking like he would snap his neck at any moment, it took my breath away. But nothing like that cell phone ringing to break up the mood. Once that call reveals that Charlie is in trouble though, Dean is furious. Oh geez, how far will this push Dean?
“The Prisoner”
The anvils are falling! In something that was called a mile away, Charlie is brutally murdered and Dean uses her death as the reason to go off the rails. The purpose of the episode is to show how low and how deep Dean will sink, but I think all it showed was that we are getting really tired of watching Dean Winchester the killer. They’ve been foreshadowing this moment would happen for a season and a half now and now that it’s here it’s so…underwhelming. Look at Dean massacre the bad guys, even the kid who was a good part of the bad guys! See how stunned and horrified we are!
Here’s what’s important to know for what is really the true showdown coming in the next episode. Dean is really pissed at Sam. He sees what Sam did, trying to find the cure behind his back using The Book of the Damned, as a betrayal. It got Charlie killed. He even flat out tells Sam that should be him on that pyre, not Charlie. That is just enough to make us believe that Dean is so far gone, he’s willing to kill Sam. So just remember that scene. It’s extremely important for later. The rest is window dressing.
“Brother’s Keeper”
Dean is not good and he knows it. After causing the death of another hunter (we hardly knew you Rudy!) he pulls the ultimate desperation play. He summons his good buddy Death. If anyone can kill him, Death can! Death knows better though. Dean cannot ever lose that Mark. It’ll unleash “The Darkness” on the earth. He can take Dean far away where he can live in isolation and never hurt anyone again, but he must continue to bear the Mark of Cain. There’s one condition though…
I have to smile the way Death keeps doing all these “tests” with the Winchesters, particularly Dean. He flat out tells Dean that he has to kill Sam, and Dean sees the logic in this. Dean even calls Sam and summons him to where he is, just to drop the bomb that he has to die. Even though Sam’s death was Death’s condition to helping Dean (since Sam wouldn’t stop at trying to find his brother), he insists that Dean has to deliver the final blow. You know he had to know that Dean couldn’t do that, no matter how far gone he was from the Mark.
Sam: You traded my life.
Dean: I’m willing to live with this thing forever, as long as I know that I and it will never hurt another living thing.
Sam: This isn’t you. This doesn’t make any sense.
Dean: No, it makes perfect sense if you stop thinking about yourself for one damn minute!
But Death’s motives aren’t the issue, Dean’s are. Dean tries like mad to justify what he’s about to do, pulling with Sam the whole, “How are they not evil?” argument. Not only does he think he’s evil, but he thinks Sam is as well. Dean is all about killing evil. It’s the MOC and its corruption trying to convince Dean what he's about to do is right. This is clearly the MOC talking:
Dean: Remember when we were in that church, making Crowley human, about to close the Gates of Hell? Well, you sure as hell were ready to die for the greater good then.
Sam: Yeah, and, Dean, you pulled me back.
Dean: And I was wrong. You were right Sam. You knew that this world would be better without us in it.
Sam: No, no, no, wait a second. You’re twisting my words here, Dean.
Dean: Why? Because we track evil and kill it? The family business? Is that it? Look at the tape, Sam. Evil tracks us. And it nukes everything in our vicinity - our family, our friends. It’s time we put a proper name to what we really are and we deal with it.
Sam: Wait a second. We are not evil. Listen, we’re far from perfect, but we are good. That thing on your arm is eveil, but not you, not me.
Dean: I let Rudy die. How was that not evil? I know what I am, Sam. But who were you when you - when you drove that man to sell his soul…or when you bullied Charlie into getting herself killed? And to what end? I have this thing on my arm, and you’re willing to let the Darkness into the world.
Dean finally convinces Sam that he must die through the act of brutality, beating him bloody. What a better way to show what a monster he’s become that physical violence? But Sam knows how to get through, refusing to close his eyes for the fatal blow, even when Dean orders him to do so, and then breaking out the family photographs. Sam though pulls the one card that Dean cannot overcome, family. One look at those photos of him, Sam, and Mary and his weeping brother on his knees ready to meet his fate and no wonder Dean can’t do it. The Mark just isn’t that powerful. Family is the greatest power of all. Of course he accidentally misses Sam and hits Death instead, causing a whole mess of problems. Hey, that’s what season 11 is for.
Overall analysis
Dean’s season ten journey is his season one journey full circle. He did everything in his power to hold the family together then, and now that Sam has done that for him during his darkest hour, he is reminded of that devotion that has ruled his life. It’s all for Sammy. It’s so complicated, yet it’s so simple. Everything these brothers do is for each other.
When Dean said that it should be Sam dead on the pyre instead of Charlie, was that him or the MOC? It was him, just without the filter. He was angry and the MOC as we have learned releases inhibitions and self control. He chose in his betrayal and hurt to go it alone, like he has done in the past (think season nine’s “Road Trip”). The MOC gave him the power of revenge without fear. With Sam not around, he could carry on his act without his brother's interference. It was in a way easier than dealing with the pain. As I said in part 1, Dean under the Mark’s influence is essentially Soulless Sam.
Oh yes, I could joke about Dean's well known fears, but think about it. Dean could have gone back to Sam in “Brother’s Keeper” asking for help or taking his revenge on his brother, but he went to Death instead. Was he doing that to spare the world from his tyranny and find the solution that Sam couldn’t? Was he doing this for Sam’s sake as well as his own? Sam was right, it wasn't an evil act. When Death made Sam the condition though, Dean gave into the MOC by convincing himself he's evil. It was the only way to not feel the pain and guilt of killing his brother.
No matter which brother is under the test, the result ends the same, love of family triumphs all. Even Lucifer couldn’t best the Winchester bond, and now the Mark of Cain couldn’t either. Not we’re not surprised, but I did think they did a great job of raising that doubt in our mind that Dean was so far gone that he could have killed Sam. But no, of course Dean couldn’t do it. But by killing Death, how much more of a hole has he dug them into on top of The Darkness?
Was the Mark of Cain harder on Sam or Dean? After looking at both their journeys, I’d say it was of equal consequence. Dean had to fight that monster within, fighting every instinct he had to hurt his brother after the Demon cure. He didn’t want to feel or experience that again, especially after feeling the huge regret of trying to kill Sam in “Soul Survivor.” Dean fought every urge until “The Prisoner.” For Sam, the sheer agony and desperation of seeing his brother struggle ate him alive. Both were hurting pretty bad.
I do wonder, is Dean’s ultimate goal and dream now to just experience the finer things in life? His speech in “Paint it Black” called back on Dean the dreamer. Dean experiencing friends and relationships that don’t end in death, Dean experiencing the simple moments that he’s been robbed of his entire life like a beach. Will this brush with the MOC push him toward that desire to experience the simple pleasures, even with the Darkness looming? While there may be no happy ending, how about those Tuesday afternoons flying a kite in the park? I do hope that a new perspective will emerge from the whole experience, for his sake and ours. We need to see Dean be happy once in a while. Maybe it’ll rub off on Sam too.
So that concludes my “Deeper Look” series for season ten. What are your hopes for Sam and Dean in season 11? Yes Mr. Carver, you owe us that beach.
In the end, the choice was easy. Turn himself back so he can save Sam and Tina. He pulled a “Dean Winchester.” Dean will take the win this time.
“Halt and Catch Fire”
I don’t think I can buy that the victim of the week’s situation can parallel Dean’s Mark of Cain drama, but they tried anyway. One take away, he regrets! (yes, they’re stalling).
Dean: I have made more mistakes that I can count. Ones that haunt me day and night.
Delilah: So…how do you deal?
Dean: Whiskey, denial. I do my best to make things right, whatever they may be.
Dean and Sam have their closing moment though and Dean is doubting that a cure can be found. The answer is with him. “I’m not just gonna give up. I appreciate the effort, okay? I do. But the answer is not out there. It’s with me. I need to be the one calling the shots here, okay? I can’t keep waking up every morning with false hope. I got to know where I stand. Otherwise, I’m gonna lose my freakin’ mind. So I’m gonna fight it til I can’t fight it anymore. And when all is said and done, I’ll go down swinging."
Those might be inspirational words, but considering the next episode is the Cain one, we all knew that wasn’t going to last.
“The Executioner’s Song”
Oh boy, the beginning of the end! Poor Dean, this time circumstances are beyond his control. He’s forced into dealing with Cain, the only other holder of the Mark. It’s clear after years of resistance the MOC has corrupted Cain in the worst way. His plan is genocide of all his descendants and he’s gotten off to a gruesome start.
This is one of the hardest tasks Dean has ever had to face and his confrontation here seems like a crafty parallel to Sam’s decision to say yes to Lucifer in “Swan Song.” The chickens have come to roost so to speak, and this is all on him. He’s scared and has every right to be. He’s in a sense jumping into his own cage, knowing that if he comes out of this he won’t be the same. Even worse, the MOC could finally take control and Dean becomes the monster every bit as lethal as Cain. A lot is on the line.
Dean: When he gave me the Mark, Cain said that this day would come, that after I killed Abaddon, I would have to come and put him down.
Sam: Great. So you’re taking orders from a madman.
Dean: No, he wasn’t mad then. Cain resisted the Mark for a long time, then I came, kicking up trouble about the blade. I sent him down this path. This is on me.
Sam: It doesn’t mean you have to be the one to go after him.
Dean: Yes it does. And there’s only one thing that can kill him.
Sam: The blade.
Castiel: Dean’s right.
Sam: Dean, wielding the Blade against Cain himself…win or lose, you may never come back from that fight.
Dean: I know.
Dean is painfully aware what can happen, evidenced by his answer to Crowley about giving the First Blade back. “If I survive and I come out of there and I don’t give it back, you’ll all have a much bigger problem on your hands.” But Cain did so much worse than force Dean’s hand to kill him. He messed with his head, foretelling a couple of very dangerous prophecies.
Cain: Look at my example boy! There is no resisting the Mark or the Blade. There is only remissions and relapse!...This may be hard to believe, in light of what I’m about to do to you, but I care about you, Dean. I truly do. But I know I’m doing you a favor. I’m saving you.
Dean: Saving me from what?
Cain: From your fate. Has it never occurred to you? Have you ever mused upon the fact that you’re living my life in reverse? My story began when I kill my brother, and that’s where your story inevitably will end.
Dean: No, never.
Cain: It’s called the Mark of Cain for a reason! First you’d kill Crowley. There’d be some strange, mixed feelings on that one, but you’d have your reason. You’d get it done, no remorse. And then you’d kill the angel Castiel. Now, that one, that I suspect would hurt something awful. And then! Then would come the murder you’d never survive, the one that would finally turn you into as much of a savage as it did me.
Dean: No.
Cain: Your brother, Sam. The only thing standing between you and that destiny is this Blade. You’re welcome my son.
Dean bests Cain and with much distress and reluctance, delivers the fatal blow with the First Blade. Cain is dead and Dean is devastated. It’s all because he knows that as long as he has that Mark, Cain’s prophecy will likely come to be. That is going to mess with his head from here on out. Sure, Dean throughout this series has been a “prophecy be damned” sort of guy, but given his struggle with the MOC, he just might be believing he isn't strong enough to fight it this time.
At the end, after Sam gives him encouraging words about holding it together after killing Cain. “You know, if you can do that without losing yourself…that’s cause for hope, even without a cure.” Dean excuses himself and is seen rolling his eyes out in the hall. He’s not buying Sam’s words of hope at all. Oh yes Sam, we know, Dean’s in trouble for sure.
“The Things That They Carried”
Dean knows Sam is still trying to find a solution to get rid of the Mark, and he’s not being supportive anymore. They have to face the truth and in the meantime, they can work the case. They do.
“Paint It Black”
I would quibble that this is irrelevant, but I think the confessional scene did capture something about Dean’s frame of mind.
“You know, the life I live, the work I do…I pretty much figured that that was all there was to me, you know? Tear around and jam the key in the ignition and haul ass until I ran out of gas. I guess I just thought sooner or later, I’d go out the same way that I live – pedal to the metal, and that would be it.”
"Now, um…recent events, uh, make me think I might be closer to that than I really thought. And, I don’t know. I mean, you know, there’s – there’s things, there’s…people, feelings that I want to experience differently than I have before, or maybe even for the first time.”
Dean wants to experience more in life. I would actually call this little flash of perspective, one that may or may not be relevant later, to be far more healthier than Sam’s perspective on things right now. It’s kind of refreshing to see. But is it really Dean’s desire or just a set of writers trying to do some filler? Given his upcoming beach speech to Sam (waiting for it…), perhaps that it’s the POV of a dying man coming to terms with the end of his life. He does have a lot to experience yet.
“Inside Man”
While Sam’s story ramps up a bit, Dean becomes the guy in the dark behind it all. He’s getting worse, the nightmare he had in the beginning of the episode his biggest clue. But also, he knows Sam is lying to him, but he doesn’t care. He’s off to do fun stuff, like be a dick and steal money from normal guys playing pool. Oh yeah, Rowena shows, but that’s just her seeing the power of the Mark of Cain and getting involved in this whole mess. It’s a curse. Uh oh, way to open a can of worms.
However, I do love Dean’s little talk to Crowley about his mother. It just goes to show, he still has a soft spot for the King of Hell and vice versa. There’s still the real Dean Winchester in there somewhere.
“Book of the Damned”
Dean tells Sam that the MOC is a curse. That as well as Charlie’s arrival sets up the whole ill fated chain of events…
Oh, let’s just get to the beach speech. It just makes me smile.
Dean: We’re due for a win, okay? Overdue. I’ll tell you another thing, if this actually does work, we’re gonna take some time off.
Sam: What, like a vacation?
Dean: Mm-hmm. And I’m not talking just like a weekend in Vegas or sitting in some crap motel watching pay-per-porn. No, I’m talking about a beach. Drinking cervezas, go for a swim, mingle with the local wildlife. When was the last time either one of us was on a beach?
Sam: Never.
Dean: Sam between our toes, Sammy, sand between our toes.
Dean is hopeful, until he feels that book. Oh no, this is not going to work. It’s evil! The Mark knows it. When the Stynes come for the book, Dean demands that Sam destroy it. He knows deep down it is for the best of everyone, despite the fact that it means he keeps the MOC. He finds his “win” in Castiel getting his grace back instead. When he finds out…
“The Werther Project”
Dean is feeling edgy for sure and is finding more productive and reckless ways to deal with his bloodlust, like take out a vampire’s nest all by himself. All in a day’s work! He knows Sam is bothered by this, but in a role reversal from Sam's days with demon blood, he's getting very irritated by Sam's attitude toward him.
Dean: Come on, man. It’s the only way I can take the edge off. I’m sorry. I don’t always like to wait around for you, especially with you looking at me like that all the time.
Sam: Look at you like what?
Dean: Like that. Like I’m some sort of a-a-a diseased killer puppy.
Despite his irritation with Sam though, when Sam runs off by himself to work a case Dean tracks him down. He wants to help and feels guilty. He doesn't seem like a guy overcome by the Mark of Cain and not as bad as Sam is believing. But after he's affected by the enchanctment and sees Benny, that look inside what Dean is truly feeling right now is fascinating. He's scared and that's because he knows deep down his "plan B" is flawed.
Benny: Remember what you said to me when we first met? About the purity of this place? Dean, slow down. Dean, stop. Listen. This…. This place you don’t have to go looking for a fight. All you have to do is be still for one moment, and that fight will come to you. That’s why you’re here, Dean. That’s the purity you crave – killing with no consequence.
Dean: No, Benny. I don’t wanna fight anymore. I’m tired of fighting.
Benny: The Mark ain’t. So, can’t leave, don’t wanna stay, bit of a bind ain’t it? Good thing there’s always a third way out. You can’t say you haven’t been thinking about it.
Dean: That ain’t gonna happen, ever.
Benny: Come on, Dean. I know you can see it. The purity, the honor.
Dean: There’s no honor in that.
Benny: What., you just wanna wait for the Mark to reclaim you? Go out swinging, die topside, then what? Maybe kill a few humans? Kill Cas? Kill your brother? Yeah, that’s mighty honorable!
Dean: Benny, shut up!
Benny: Oh, I-I’m sorry. I forgot… about your plan. You gonna get Sam and Cas to put you down? You really think that they’re gonna keep that agreement? Come on. Dean, let’s say they do. Do you think they will ever recover from that? It will ruin them. This little backup plan of yours, I know you’ve been thinking about it for a time, I know it’s been gnawin’ at you. You can’t leave that job to them.
This is the real inner Dean. His hope that Sam and Castiel will take him out when the Mark of Cain takes over isn't realistic and he knows it. He doesn't want to fight anymore but the Mark of Cain won't let him be. It's because of the Mark of Cain though that Dean overcomes the enchantment and saves Sam in time. To him, death is not an option. The Mark wants him alive. He wants to be alive with his brother. It's no accident that the Werther Box needed blood from both of them and they would have died if they had gone on their separate ways.
"The universe is trying to tell us something we both should already know. We’re stronger together than apart."
“Angel Heart”
Was Dean in this? Oh right, he played mini golf with a teenager. And he snapped in the bar, just to prove to us he’s getting worse.
Dean does tell Claire this at the end of the episode though, just to reinforce what we’ve been seeing all season long:
Claire: Are you gonna be okay?
Dean: Me? I don’t know. But I will keep fighting. I’ll keep swinging until I got nothing left.
“Dark Dynasty”
Ugh. Alright, there’s one important moment. Dean finds out that Sam didn’t burn the Book of the Damned. His confrontation of Sam is downright creepy! Hovering over his brother, looking like he would snap his neck at any moment, it took my breath away. But nothing like that cell phone ringing to break up the mood. Once that call reveals that Charlie is in trouble though, Dean is furious. Oh geez, how far will this push Dean?
“The Prisoner”
The anvils are falling! In something that was called a mile away, Charlie is brutally murdered and Dean uses her death as the reason to go off the rails. The purpose of the episode is to show how low and how deep Dean will sink, but I think all it showed was that we are getting really tired of watching Dean Winchester the killer. They’ve been foreshadowing this moment would happen for a season and a half now and now that it’s here it’s so…underwhelming. Look at Dean massacre the bad guys, even the kid who was a good part of the bad guys! See how stunned and horrified we are!
Here’s what’s important to know for what is really the true showdown coming in the next episode. Dean is really pissed at Sam. He sees what Sam did, trying to find the cure behind his back using The Book of the Damned, as a betrayal. It got Charlie killed. He even flat out tells Sam that should be him on that pyre, not Charlie. That is just enough to make us believe that Dean is so far gone, he’s willing to kill Sam. So just remember that scene. It’s extremely important for later. The rest is window dressing.
“Brother’s Keeper”
Dean is not good and he knows it. After causing the death of another hunter (we hardly knew you Rudy!) he pulls the ultimate desperation play. He summons his good buddy Death. If anyone can kill him, Death can! Death knows better though. Dean cannot ever lose that Mark. It’ll unleash “The Darkness” on the earth. He can take Dean far away where he can live in isolation and never hurt anyone again, but he must continue to bear the Mark of Cain. There’s one condition though…
I have to smile the way Death keeps doing all these “tests” with the Winchesters, particularly Dean. He flat out tells Dean that he has to kill Sam, and Dean sees the logic in this. Dean even calls Sam and summons him to where he is, just to drop the bomb that he has to die. Even though Sam’s death was Death’s condition to helping Dean (since Sam wouldn’t stop at trying to find his brother), he insists that Dean has to deliver the final blow. You know he had to know that Dean couldn’t do that, no matter how far gone he was from the Mark.
Sam: You traded my life.
Dean: I’m willing to live with this thing forever, as long as I know that I and it will never hurt another living thing.
Sam: This isn’t you. This doesn’t make any sense.
Dean: No, it makes perfect sense if you stop thinking about yourself for one damn minute!
But Death’s motives aren’t the issue, Dean’s are. Dean tries like mad to justify what he’s about to do, pulling with Sam the whole, “How are they not evil?” argument. Not only does he think he’s evil, but he thinks Sam is as well. Dean is all about killing evil. It’s the MOC and its corruption trying to convince Dean what he's about to do is right. This is clearly the MOC talking:
Dean: Remember when we were in that church, making Crowley human, about to close the Gates of Hell? Well, you sure as hell were ready to die for the greater good then.
Sam: Yeah, and, Dean, you pulled me back.
Dean: And I was wrong. You were right Sam. You knew that this world would be better without us in it.
Sam: No, no, no, wait a second. You’re twisting my words here, Dean.
Dean: Why? Because we track evil and kill it? The family business? Is that it? Look at the tape, Sam. Evil tracks us. And it nukes everything in our vicinity - our family, our friends. It’s time we put a proper name to what we really are and we deal with it.
Sam: Wait a second. We are not evil. Listen, we’re far from perfect, but we are good. That thing on your arm is eveil, but not you, not me.
Dean: I let Rudy die. How was that not evil? I know what I am, Sam. But who were you when you - when you drove that man to sell his soul…or when you bullied Charlie into getting herself killed? And to what end? I have this thing on my arm, and you’re willing to let the Darkness into the world.
Dean finally convinces Sam that he must die through the act of brutality, beating him bloody. What a better way to show what a monster he’s become that physical violence? But Sam knows how to get through, refusing to close his eyes for the fatal blow, even when Dean orders him to do so, and then breaking out the family photographs. Sam though pulls the one card that Dean cannot overcome, family. One look at those photos of him, Sam, and Mary and his weeping brother on his knees ready to meet his fate and no wonder Dean can’t do it. The Mark just isn’t that powerful. Family is the greatest power of all. Of course he accidentally misses Sam and hits Death instead, causing a whole mess of problems. Hey, that’s what season 11 is for.
Overall analysis
Dean’s season ten journey is his season one journey full circle. He did everything in his power to hold the family together then, and now that Sam has done that for him during his darkest hour, he is reminded of that devotion that has ruled his life. It’s all for Sammy. It’s so complicated, yet it’s so simple. Everything these brothers do is for each other.
When Dean said that it should be Sam dead on the pyre instead of Charlie, was that him or the MOC? It was him, just without the filter. He was angry and the MOC as we have learned releases inhibitions and self control. He chose in his betrayal and hurt to go it alone, like he has done in the past (think season nine’s “Road Trip”). The MOC gave him the power of revenge without fear. With Sam not around, he could carry on his act without his brother's interference. It was in a way easier than dealing with the pain. As I said in part 1, Dean under the Mark’s influence is essentially Soulless Sam.
Oh yes, I could joke about Dean's well known fears, but think about it. Dean could have gone back to Sam in “Brother’s Keeper” asking for help or taking his revenge on his brother, but he went to Death instead. Was he doing that to spare the world from his tyranny and find the solution that Sam couldn’t? Was he doing this for Sam’s sake as well as his own? Sam was right, it wasn't an evil act. When Death made Sam the condition though, Dean gave into the MOC by convincing himself he's evil. It was the only way to not feel the pain and guilt of killing his brother.
No matter which brother is under the test, the result ends the same, love of family triumphs all. Even Lucifer couldn’t best the Winchester bond, and now the Mark of Cain couldn’t either. Not we’re not surprised, but I did think they did a great job of raising that doubt in our mind that Dean was so far gone that he could have killed Sam. But no, of course Dean couldn’t do it. But by killing Death, how much more of a hole has he dug them into on top of The Darkness?
Was the Mark of Cain harder on Sam or Dean? After looking at both their journeys, I’d say it was of equal consequence. Dean had to fight that monster within, fighting every instinct he had to hurt his brother after the Demon cure. He didn’t want to feel or experience that again, especially after feeling the huge regret of trying to kill Sam in “Soul Survivor.” Dean fought every urge until “The Prisoner.” For Sam, the sheer agony and desperation of seeing his brother struggle ate him alive. Both were hurting pretty bad.
I do wonder, is Dean’s ultimate goal and dream now to just experience the finer things in life? His speech in “Paint it Black” called back on Dean the dreamer. Dean experiencing friends and relationships that don’t end in death, Dean experiencing the simple moments that he’s been robbed of his entire life like a beach. Will this brush with the MOC push him toward that desire to experience the simple pleasures, even with the Darkness looming? While there may be no happy ending, how about those Tuesday afternoons flying a kite in the park? I do hope that a new perspective will emerge from the whole experience, for his sake and ours. We need to see Dean be happy once in a while. Maybe it’ll rub off on Sam too.
So that concludes my “Deeper Look” series for season ten. What are your hopes for Sam and Dean in season 11? Yes Mr. Carver, you owe us that beach.
Comments
My second point of disagreement, is that you seem to see some ulterior motive in Sam's behaviour when he showed those photos to Dean. I totally disagree that he has other motives, than he said about. He agreed to be killed by his brother in order that other people wouldn't be hurt, exactly as he said, and gave those photos only for Dean in the hopes that some day he will remember what it meant to be human. He didn't close his eyes to show that he forgives his brother, not to make him change his mind.
This summer I was surprised to know, how many people had always tried to find some hidden signs that Sam's motives are different from those which are shown and when it panned out? By the way, during season 4 and 5 I never even for a minute didn't admit that Sam would go dark side, though I saw that he might make some tragic mistake, because I took his character on face value and believed what I was shown. And this summer I was shocked to find out how many people sincerely thought that at the end of the day there would be a final battle in season 5 finale between Dean and Sam with Sam on the side of the evil.
But again, I don’t believe in destiny and firmly believe in free choice, and there was no sign that Sam would choose to be on the side of the evil. I guess, I was just lucky that my beliefs were shared by Kripke.
I also was surprised to read, Alice, that you thought Dean killed Death by accident. I certainly did not see it that way, and I thought Jensen said at a recent Con that his "forgive me" alluded not to his imminent murder of Sam, but rather to his decision NOT to follow through with Death's plan. Once he decided not to kill Sam, he was compelled to kill Death because Death had said if Dean wouldn't kill Sam, then he himself would. I think Dean's look of surprise was not because he had accidentally killed Death, but rather was due to the fact that he had actually succeeded in his attempt. I know there was a lot of disagreement after the episode about Dean's intentions, but I do think he cleared it up somewhat at that Con. Of course I can't remember exactly which Con it was.
I also heard the same comment at a recent con. A fan asked him the question. Jensen also said that , that particullar moment brought a tear to his eye but he didn't won't Demon Dean emotional he wanted to show him more stoic ? so he asked to have the scene re-shot so Jensen could gather himself and show no emotion. The surprise that Dean appeared to show at the end when Death was dead, may have been the fact that he actually went through with it and Death died - I really don't think he expected it to happen so easely. I think both J's played their parts well and if it has us questioning some of their actions, it goes to prove how excellent they are as actors. They really have us hook, line and sinker.
Even though this episode is called "A classic Winchester move" by some people -- save one brother no matter the cost. We have to remember if Dean went completely dark as in Knight of Hell dark. He cannot be stopped only by someone else wearing the MOC and having the blade. At least by letting out the darkness the Boys have a chance of defeating it. I believe what Sam did in the end by removing the MOC is the lesser of two evils. By the way what use to the whole story of the MOC was the blade other than to kill Cain and Abbadon it really doesn't fit to me it's kinda stupid ??
And Sam closing his eyes that to me was in preparation for the death blow nothing else - remember we are talking Demon Dean and his irrational so he was all set to kill him
Quote:
Because really, who would have thought you could actually kill Death?
I think when Sam placed the pictures down it was for the exact reason he said so that it might help to eventually guide Dean back, to remember once more that he loved and was loved. He was willing to die, he had no idea at what point Rowena and crew were at when it came to casting the spell or if they were even going to be able to do it. But let's face it, Sam's not stupid, he was fully aware that by playing that card, knowing the power of what family means to Dean, that it might cut thru the hold the MOC had on him. What is that saying Sam has heard Dean repeat over and over all through the years? There's got to be another way. I'm sure while Sam was resigned to his own death there had to be that little spark of hope in his heart. That's not being manipulative, that's just being a Winchester. ;)
Also,I'm just calling it as I see it in terms of Dean killing Death. I don't read con transcripts or watch videos (I wish I had the time). I just interpret whats on the screen. It looks accidental to me, especially since Dean didn't have to kill Death. Not that it matters at all. Dead is dead, and I'm still not convinced Death is dead. He's gonna teach Dean one big lesson!
Now Jensen has said his portrayal was a little different than my interpretation (however he did mean to kill Death). I was surprised how many fans thought that Dean just missed Sam and accidently killed Death. So I was glad that someone asked Jensen at a convention about it. I would have expected someone at SDCC to ask JC that question but I don't think anyone did.
And you are right. I don't think you can kill Death. I don't think Dean is going to be his favorite human after this.
I definitely was not implying that Sam's actions were ulterior. I even went back to my Deeper Look at Sam Winchester to make sure I didn't say that there either. I just didn't give much analysis to Sam's actions here because I was focused on Dean. Sam pulled family card. These guys know each other and how to get through. If Sam had failed, he was willing to die knowing he took his last shot. That is typical Winchester behavior. We've seen it constantly through the series from both them. Ulterior sound manipulative. Everything he said came from the heart.
I'm also not saying Soulless Sam and Demon Dean were exactly the same. What I was saying, and this ran through all parts of the Deeper Looks, was Soulless Sam was Sam at his core without inhibitions and Demon Dean was Dean at his core without those inhibitions. They’re different people, of course they’re going to act differently. But the premise was the same and no doubt that was the parallel they were going for. These writers love them parallels!
I don't know, I like seeing more to actions that what's at face value. It adds those layers that the writers should be putting in their characterizatio n. I used to watch this show avidly for those layers. Now, I watch because I'm determined to stick with this until the end. I'd like to believe Sam's actions were more than what was shown because plain and simple, it's more interesting. It's what good shows do.
Thanks for your comments.
About Soulless Sam and Marked Dean. Yes, the authors often place brothers in each other’s shoes, I agree with you. But I disagree with you in the point, that Soulless Sam and Marked Dean are at their true core without inhibitions. The true core of a person is their soul. So a person without soul is not even a person. If to make an analogy, then Soulless Sam is like a very complicated protein super-computer who (or is it which?) is fed with Sam’s memories and skills. It’s Sam’s rational side, but without his intuition, without what people call the talent, without feelings. And like it is with computers in some ways they are more efficient, in some ways they are not. Certainly, any computer can solve integral equations quicker and more efficiently than humans. But only a human can invent a principal of solving the integral equation. I hope my analogy is clear. The same is with Soulless Sam and Sam. In some ways the Soulless Sam may seem to be more efficient, than Sam, but in fact the opposite is true, because when it comes to the situations which require intuition, talent, feelings, it fails. The Soulless Sam wasn’t dark, or light. He was just empty.
That’s quite different with Marked Dean. What is happened to him is that his soul remained, but was twisted. His Dark side won. We were shown what happens when the monster who is inside of everybody wins. (And “there is a monster inside of everybody” is one of the themes of season 10). That’s why he may seem not very different from the Dean we know. But it is the superficial view. He is very different, because everything good he has inside him was stifled, though as the finale showed was not dead. And it’s symbolic, that it is his attitude to Sam didn’t allow his good side to die. (And the theme that “we are not human without love” – is one of the themes of the whole show. – “We keep each other human” worked again.)
The Marked Dean should be compared with Sam on demon blood. There were much more parallels there. Sam said that with demon blood he felt more in control, and Dean said the same. The lure of the power, you know, which can be very appealing, but which should be rejected, first of all for person’s own sake.
I understand that the central theme of season 10 is the exploration of the Dark Side of the boys. And, Geez, both of them have it. Hence the question Carver posed “Who is the real monster?”, but the question doesn’t contain the answer, we should decide it for ourselves (and none of the boys are), because it is not the question of having the Dark side, that’s the question is of giving in to it. And, at the end of the day none of the boys gave in. Dean almost gave in, but Sam saved him, not only literally (executing the spell), but by the fact that he was able to get through to his true core. That’s why I think that you are wrong, when you are saying that in case of the Soulless Sam and Marked Dean we were shown “their true cores without inhibitions”. I think the opposite is true.
As for Sam's motives in the finale, I think that it was exactly as he said, he didn't stop believing in his brother, even after he had seen what a monster he had turned into, that some day, long after Sam's death he would be able to overcome the power of the Mark and remember what it meant to be human..
I do like these closer looks. They help flesh out the season for me.
cheryl42, it seems to me, that Carver emphasised this aspect (and I'm saying, that it's only aspect, not the whole Dean) of Dean's character since the very begining of season 8. Hopefully, Carver did that because he is going to deal with it, not just to throw it in our faces.
Everybody remembered his snapping at the police department, and his readyness to kill Mrs.Tran, he parallelled him with Randa in Heartache. Remember his words:
DEAN Wow. Back in business. Got the win. Admit it – feels good, huh? You know, I was thinking about what Randa said about, uh, you know, what it feels like to be a warrior. I get it, man, I do.
Then his whole dialogue with Cain in Firstborn:
CAIN
The mark can be transferred to someone who's worthy.
DEAN
You mean a killer like you?
CAIN
Yes.
Then his dialogue with Flagstaff in Stairway to Heaven:
FLAGSTAFF
No. Can I go? I have lives to save.
DEAN
Welcome to the club.
[FLAGSTAFF smirks]
Something funny?
FLAGSTAFF
Not funny "ha ha." But you thinking you help people -- it's amusing. I help people. A clogged artery here, a tumor there. I do good in this world. You -- you believe every problem can be solved with a gun. You play the hero, but underneath the hype, you're a killer with oceans of blood on his hands. I hate men like you.
[DEAN stares at her calmly and then leaps to his feet and throws the table between them aside in one swift movement. He throws FLAGSTAFF and her chair backwards but catches them before they hit the ground and instantly has an angel blade to her throat.]
DEAN
Honey, there ain't no other men like me.
Then there was his dialogue with “evil” Charlie:
Charlie: Oh, Sam, you're adorable. You're not gonna hurt me. In fact, that's your problem -- all good-guy code, no bite. What a waste. And you . . . (turning to Dean) Always letting this albatross hold you back.
So, it's only natural that Marked Dean is not completely different from the usual Dean. In my opinion, the Mark only strengthened these aspects of his character, and was gradually stifling all the good ones he has. But I disagree with you, that it wasn't shown that Dean was getting worse, the facts were there. I think it was just the rendition that wasn’t really good. Mostly it was insipid and bland.There is no place like home and Executioner Song are happy exeptions.
And I think, that that confessional scene in Paint it Black showed that he understands, that he is barely holding it up:
"Now, um…recent events, uh, make me think I might be closer to that than I really thought..”
Now I am not saying that Sam's journey wasn't compelling and the best part of S10 for me. Or that Jensen didn't sell what he was given to work with. I just would have enjoyed it more if Dean had been an unstoppable force of rampaging murder rivaling Cain or Lucifer, the other bearers of the Mark. Then all of Sam's desperate moves would have made more sense. It just seemed like Jared and Jensen were working off of scripts from different story lines.
What I think was jared was gievn good material (but thematerial Jared was given suffered because of the material Jensen was given) but jensen was given crap to work with and when put together they did not mesh.With POV it was the reverse.Jared got crap and jensen got good material.
Dean on the other hand was just Dean x2. None of his actions warranted the desperation that we saw in Sam. During this season I got the feeling that Jared was interpreting the script one way and Jensen a different way. One performance didn't "mesh" with the other. Maybe a directors failing? I don't know but the season seemed off kilter to me.
I agree with Sharon that the writers seem unwilling to take risks with Dean.
Sure Dean wasn't exactly too different but just enough not to be right until the end of season 10. That the story of both Dean and Sam actually one of Sam's growth regards to dealing with Dean's PTSD which became more extreme since he came back from purgatory and has gradually infected every pore of Dean as time goes on (symbolically through the MoC)
Sure Sam acted desperately in season 10 and everyone else involved had free will but what triggered the desperation and the acts of bringing others in knowing it was probably to their detriment? And it wasn't a desperation that like it or not was there before - Sam's previous MO was to get desperate and then get obsessive about someone having to pay. Losing Dean? He has always loved his brother but he had lost Dean before and tried to get him back but gave up went with Ruby to go after Lilith or moved in with Amelia.
What was the difference this time - personally I think guilt has a lot to do with it, because Sam knew Dean wasn't right since he came back from purgatory and when he got the mark and Sam, like it or not handled that situation badly in season 8 and 9 and it wasn't until he lost Dean that it hit home. Best comparison I can give is a person who doesn't know what to do when someone they love comes back from Iraq and Afghanistan traumatised but just hopes they will get over it once they get back to normal. Sam wasn't responsible for the actions that got them to that place but he didn't deal with Dean's situation in a way that Dean didn't feel it was necessary to take on the mark.
This season, sure you can say isn't overtly Sam centric except Sam grew a hell of a lot internally this seasons because we actually saw him deal with supporting his brother's situation overtly and over a period of time instead of what he had done previously. Such as in season 8 be patient and then blown his top, then said he'd help Dean see the light then fall apart and say he was willing to die to prove Dean could have faith in him. Both reactions don't truly let Dean centre himself in terms of reconnecting with a world he didn't feel part of, it just told him he was bad for it and kept hurting people. Or in season 9, where Dean did something terrible, sure, but he was as much trying to heal someone he cared about as well as proving to himself he wasn't toxic to the people he cared about seeing how he kept getting Gadreel to bring people back until Gadreel betrayed him. But Sam held onto his anger too long to actually help Dean when he came back with the mark as we only saw him research the mark once or twice compared to the continual theme it was in season 10 but Dean feeling toxic and not getting he why he was loved was a continual still there - one of the first questions to Cas after cured of the demon was about Sam possibly wanting a divorce, about Sam wanting him gone. Sure you can say that is a lot on Dean about his self loathing but he has to get that idea from somewhere and that is on Sam because as shown Dean was still holding onto the words said to him in the purge and Sam would have to do more than say to a dying man 'I lied' to get that through to Dean that there wasn't any truth in those words.
The question is how Sam is going to handle the fall out from the darkness. Is he going to explain to Dean that he had Rowena and Cas continue to spell cast when Dean blames himself for the release of it through killing Death and own it or deflect like he did when Dean asked about Lester selling his soul.
I wanted to see the writers really take some chances with Dean's character. I would have liked a Dean that was so scary and so evil that the only choice Sam had was the desperate moves he made. I get it that they went a different way. Sam was making those moves to prevent Dean from becoming that thing. It didn't quite work for me because of the risks that the writers have taken with Sam in the past. It may make the character unpopular with a some but Jared really nails those types of stories. I wanted to see those types of risks for Dean. Jensen would have rocked it. And his character wouldn't have suffered for it.
Also with Demon Dean they made a point when Sam first found out Dean was a demon that Sam knew that Dean wasn't actively going out of his way to hunt down victims. He killed if they attacked him.
That was the point of the slow burn. Dean wasn't so evil but he was on the edge not just this season but for all three, Sam's desperation and motivation tied into not just this season but the last two or the hitting the dog joke wouldn't have been brought up something had to have changed in Sam's MO - the experiences of the past two seasons, getting that Dean wasn't simply able to snap out of his trauma like Sam expected him to, like he always had before to the point that Sam realised he lost his brother in part because he hadn't done what was required to save him. That none of them really had.
As for the beating of Dark Charlie, it was done to prove not just one points but two - how much Dean had been holding back but also to show that even people who care about Dean underestimate that side of him. Like it or not Dark Charlie wasn't the first 'female' we have seen Dean hit, just they tend to be bad guys/demons and Jensen is so good at not crossing that line to make Dean look like it is anything other than business so we let it fly.
But what was dark Charlie at that point - she was an adversery attacking him. She attacked Dean as thinking she was on an equal footing and played on her personal knowledge of him to try and unsettle him. Just MoC Dean after a point wouldn't restrain himself he put her down just like he would anyone who attacked him, even if they were in a female package. But he still held back as Charlie was in a position that she could get up, say unlike Abaddon who was also female and Dean went postal on her corpse.
Her first case - Dean took her because Sam was ill. She was all over the shop.
Her going for the book - Sam told her about it.
Her going to Oz - Dorothy gave her the opportunity for the grand adventure she was craving
Dark/light Charlie - consequence of her going to Oz and she needed to the boys help to get put back together and deal with her dark half and even then she over estimated her ability. Dark Charlie thought she could take out Dean. She was sorely proven wrong. We don't know exactly how Dark Charlie won that war, but to end a war it is unlikely that it was solely fighting on a big battlefield. More like with her brains taking out those she felt hurt Dorothy.
Her ninja skills - they weren't exactly great on screen and she only fought when she couldn't run. Plus we've seen Jodie fight too and we don't call her a hunter.
There was lots of declarations about Charlie, just like Sam declaring Dean was losing it but not much actual evidence of it on screen. She may have thought she was a hunter but Tracey the girl who we saw in hotpants in season 9 was more together about what she could and couldn't physically do than Charlie did as was Garth. Charlie was a nerd wish fulfilment character.
I say- we were told she was a hunter.
Charlie is not a main character so I do not expect and frankly do not want to see the ghost or the vamp she took out .her telling it is enough for me.
And as far as Sam's declaration I agree with Sam's declaration as he has seen Dean coming after Sam with an axe so I am okay with it .YMMV.
As for Sam's declaration - Demon Dean came after him not Dean and not between Book of the damned and the calling Charlie in again. If coming after your brother homicidally was something that the Winchesters took as the end of the world Dean would have had Sam in a strait jacket back in season 1. Seeing Dean voluntarily eat an egg white omelette would have been more of a sign of Dean losing it than that.
Quote:But Demon Dean was at time who Dean was.Quote:Yes when the ghost zapped Sam .Sam did not go to the Ghost and say please zap me.the solution for that was not Sam in a strat jacket but destroying the ghost which they did ...now the solution is not putting Dean ina straight jacket but Finding a solution to MoC.Which Dean could not control.which happened when he came after Sam .
With Garth we didn't need to be continually told her was a hunter, he could research, he just did. But Charlie we have to be told she is the smartest person in the room that Dean thinks of her as a little sister. All the telling makes me doubt, so just see her as a wishfullfilment character for Robbie Thomson.
As for Demon Dean being who Dean was when he attacked Sam. Two things - that happened before book of the damned, before he beat up dark Charlie so why exactly does that mean Dean is worse than the last time Charlie saw him. Second - Sam may not have gone to the ghost who zapped him but the act was the same and so not exactly a sign that Dean, just like the time he beat Dean when he was full of Demon blood that he willingly drank or Lucifer beat Dean to a pulp when wearing Sam who willingly said yes too.
Sam saying Dean can't control the mark and giving demon Dean as the evidence doesn't prove human Dean was losing it while wearing the mark at the point that Sam called Charlie in Dark Dynasty but he says Dean is getting worse and if they don't do something basically now with the book Dean says they shouldn't use that Dean will be gone.
.Quote:
I personally am not a fan of Garth.While he was not a skilled hunter he was a hunter.Quote:But that tells me why sam was so desperate as time went on .Dean was an immortal being and Sam was not .he would not always be there for Dean he is after all human.
The acct was the same but the build up was not the build up was similar to dean and the coin episode.It was not something which Dean sought or asked for.
I am sympethetic of the person who had something slipped in his drink not the one who drank of his free will and then drove a vehicle ..One person was violated (not talking abt physical )and the other was not .The acts being same does not make the things same...Gandhiji and kasab where both jailed but for very different reasons.
Quote:It happened .Dean killed the frankenboy.woul d I have liked more POV from Sam ..That has been my complaint for some time and if they follow the same trend I do not think I will get it ..so I work with what I have got.
Quote:I am not sure where the drink analogy comes in - Dean at know point knew that taking the mark would end in him becoming a demon. He was as you said slipped something into his drink. He knew he was having a drink just not the rest of it. But after he became Dean again he was Dean. Just like Sam drinking the blood and saying yes to Lucifer and knowingly hunting without a soul so was without compass and the inability to use emotion could be said was knowingly drinking and driving but we treat him as Sam when he got his soul back.
The losing Dean was a slow burn over three seasons but in season 10 Sam continually acted if it was immanent after Dean being cured of the demon with little real evidence of a really dark Dean rearing his head every other episode. Sam's desperation acted was to do with the guilt he felt about how Dean had gotten to that point and he hadn't done everything he could do to prevent it last time. But Dean between Demon Dean and Duck Dynasty there wasn't over the edge moment that was the Dean but he barely came back from that Charlie saw. He had the same potential to go over the edge as he did in season 9 when Sam did very little about the mark. Which says more about Sam's state of mind than Dean's situation with the mark.
The thing that sent human Dean over the edge to kill the Stynes though - Charlie getting tubbed. An event that was the end result of Sam telling Charlie that Dean was almost over the edge and they were losing him if they didn't act know so getting her invested in decoding the book. Sam telling us Dean was going over the edge and they needed to do something became in the end a self fulling prophesy as if Charlie hadn't been so invested in saving Dean because Sam was telling her 'its now or we lose him' she wouldn't have gotten herself stuck in that bathroom.
She would have been dead long bak as she was not in a protected place not this bathroom then some other bathroom, she had made powerful enemies without their help
Crowley down right says that he knew but didn't tell and wasn't planning on telling so Dean didn't know about the possibility of the mark being the thing that turned Cain into a Demon, he was as you put it slipped something in his drink by Crowley. He knew the drink itself was bad but he didn't know about the mickey but still everything that happens to him and his family and friends is because of him and not the person hoping that the thing he withheld was true? Using your analogy the person who took the alcoholic drink with something in it is responsible for what happened to them and what the reaction of all around afterwards.
Scary analogy, god that is a scary, and now I am done because I am not even going down that road!
DEAN Can I use it to kill that bitch?
CAIN Yes. But you have to know with the mark comes a great burden. Some would call it a great cost.
DEAN Yeah, well, spare me the warning label. You had me at "kill the bitch".
CROWLEY
Your brother, bless his soul, is summoning me as I speak. Make a deal, bring you back. It's exactly what I was talking about, isn't it? It's all become so... expected. You have to believe me. When I suggested you take on the Mark of Cain, I didn't know this was going to happen. Not really. I mean, I might not have told you the entire truth. But I never lied. I never lied, Dean. That's important. It's fundamental. But...there is one story about Cain that I might have... forgotten to tell you. Apparently, he, too, was willing to accept death, rather than becoming the killer the Mark wanted him to be. So he took his own life with the Blade. He died. Except, as rumor has it, the Mark never quite let go. You can understand why I never spoke of this. Why set hearts aflutter at mere speculation? It wasn't until you summoned me... No, it wasn't truly until you left that cheeseburger uneaten...that I began to let myself believe. Maybe miracles do come true.
Please - Sam was the one who told her about the book in the first place, not Dean and he called her to decode the book after the whole Dean saying don't and she didn't talk to Dean about it, then she ran off into the night because she couldn't handle being in a room with a 'mean girl' and got killed. Sam brought her in to work with the mother of the king of hell after getting the codex to decode it from a magical security system almost killed him, Dean and had killed everyone else it had touched. And that was the nice piece of magic compared to that coming out of the book of the damned and we didn't see him filling her in on those facts. Just that Dean was getting worse with no evidence of it other than Sam's word.
Sure Charlie running off is on her but bringing her while having more idea of the danger than she did - that is more on Sam than the guy who told both of them that it would be better to lock him in a dungeon for all eternity rather than poke the stupid book with a stick to help him.
CHARLIE: Good? Bad? I think I'll just settle for balanced. (Dean watches from the table and then goes back to his research) Anything about the Mark?
SAM: Yeah, maybe. I found this book. It's a lore book -- "The Book of the Damned."
CHARLIE: Sounds legit.
SAM: It's in a library somewhere in Tuscany. It might be a dead end, but I figured...
CHARLIE: I'll go check it out.
Charlie's death was more to push buttons as there was no evidence that they tortured her to see where the book was or that they took her tablet. Her death was too quick to say that Charlie's death was actually about Charlie at that point and not about Stumpy Stynes pride about his arm and getting quick revenge for his dead family member. And like it or not Felicia Day doesn't hold weapons convincingly and yet they want us to believe Charlie was an urban ninja??
As for blaming Sam, you blamed Dean for her going after the book - how did she know how to go for the book. Sam told her about it just after Dean was beating himself up about dark Charlie and Charlie was beating herself up about what Dark Charlie and Light Charlie did. It wasn't Dean who said about the book or Charlie came up with it - Sam did. Sam mentioning the book and Tuscany to Charlie gave her a sodding 'redemption quest that could help in saving her friend'. But that is on Charlie for going on it as she could have said no. But Sam knowing Charlie, would know a Larper who feels she failed those she cared about and that it was a way she could help Dean would take it that way. He introduced her to the concept of the book so he bares more responsibility about her interaction with it than Dean does and that includes her killing the Styne who went after her when she found the thing.
As for beating a woman to a bloody pulp. Like it or not Charlie is not the first woman who Dean has hit in the show or even Sam has hit and killed. They just tend to be demons or monsters so we let it fly. But guess what they are still female, so if we condone one fight with a female then we have to condone all if they are similar circumstances and with Dark Charlie it kind of was. She was attacking Dean as she thought she was on an equal footing and could take him down, guess what she found she wasn't when Dean let loose a little and she got hurt. If he had let lose a lot then we would have had a Dark Charlie corpse in the same way Abaddon had become mince meat. But I see no-one saying Dean shouldn't have fought Abaddon because she was wearing Josie.
So, Sam is to blame, because he mentioned that he had found the reference to that book.
OK, following your logic Dean is to blame for his mother death, without him Azazel wouldn't have known about her existence, wouldn't have bled in Sam's mouth, and all those people who died in the show would have been alive. The conclusion: Dean is to blame for everything.
But hey by your logic Dean is to blame for everything and nothing will change that. Nice balanced view to be holding.
I agree that the mark of Cain needed resolved but without that lack of necessity kind of made Cas and Sam's actions the thing that brought it to a head rather than the Mark showing itself as requiring desparate acts to prevent Demon Dean. And their acts could be seen as doing with their feelings as much as wanting to help Dean - Cas not wanting to be the one who is left with the task of dealing with the shell of his former friend and Sam because he felt his inaction previously impacted on Dean's decision making that lead to Demon Dean.
But my point still remains the bloke who told Charlie about the book and how it would cure Dean then called her to decode the sodding thing is more responsible for her interactions with it and the Stynes than the one who basically said 'it's bad, it's bad, can we bury it, burn it but it's scary bad and we shouldn't touch it -EVER!!!!' Even if his plan to contain the Mark without the book was doomed to failure at some point.
I think Sam is suffering from PTSD as well as Dean. Cas took the crazy not the memories of the thousand years of torture. Gadreel may have left the building but he also left the images of slaughtering Kevin and Abner. I think both of these guys have been through the ringer.
And yes my point exactly. Sam was acting way too panicky compared to how Dean was acting. If Dean was the embodiment of the Darkness and was slaughtering innocent humans and creating demon armies than yes desperate times. Dean wasn't acting that way. So why the extreme urgency.
They aren't responsible for Dean's issues, they have their own and then look what happens - Dean takes on the mark and they are still focused on Metatron and Abaddon. Sam going nuts in season 7 had little to do with Dick Roman but Dean and Cas dealt with it while dealing with the Levi's. Keeping Cas safe in purgatory even though he's cuckoo is Dean's thing even though he is fighting for their lives every moment. Cas told Dean that it wasn't his responsibility to have gotten Cas home or keep him safe but still Dean thought Cas needed him and he was there. Sam gets ill in season 8 and Dean nurses and cooks and hovers even though Sam hates it and in the end he is there to talk Sam down. But in Season 8 and 9 Dean's issues, his PTSD isn't the thing Cas or Sam really focus on other things are and then what happens dealing with Metatron which they have all agreed is more important Dean gets killed. Sure Dean with the mark is their best shot at Metatron, but Dean didn't get the mark to go after Metatron and it was never stated he was the only way. In fact Sam did state at one point to get the blade away from Dean that they could keep it for the 'big bads'. Like the mark was there to stay and the blade was the problem not Dean with the mark.
So hell yes the urgency is that Sam is feeling a hell of a lot of guilt about previously letting Dean down, that Dean got to a place where there would have been no way to talk him down from that fight, that Sam let Dean walk into it and that Dean was in a place where one of the last things he said before he died was him questioning about Sam being okay with Dean being dead and then turned into the thing that Dean has railed against all his life. Doesn't mean Sam didn't have PTSD it is his guilt about not actually getting that his brother's PTSD was in a place that needed a to be dealt with before it got to a head and he doesn't want to risk it again.
As for the book - Sam didn't know it could cure Dean but he was saying it was a lead. A lead Charlie wouldn't have known about if he hadn't said about it. He introduced her to the idea of it. So is more responsible for Charlie's interactions with it than the other person in the room who didn't say a word about to her at that point then told her that it was bad news the time he held it.
And I say sorry no, Sam introduced the concept of a book called the book of the damned to her and he didn't go with her when she went to find it and he was the one that knew she was trying to decode it and didn't call Cas to let him know that the threat level against the book and Charlie was upped when the Stynes turned up and attacked Dean. Now Dean may have been stoked about her finding it but he and someone 'had' to stay with Dean but he is not the one who introduced her to the concept of it not Dean and he didn't know to that there was any reason to check in on Charlie as he thought the book was gone. It was Sam calling her to help put her back in the Stynes crosshairs.
Now Charlie is responsible for the actions she took to get it, she could have called them the minute the Stynes were on her tail in Italy but she didn't. She is responsible for running off. But to say that because Dean took the mark he is more responsible than Sam and Sam is the reason she survived so long when he was the introduced her to the book which was the catalyst for the Stynes involvement. Even if he couldn't have forseen that exact turn of events, he is Sam Winchester, it was called the book of the damned, he knows that isn't good.
As far as looking for the book in the first place all Sam knew was that it was a book that might be able to help them and it was in Italy. That was all the information that he had. Charlie jumped on it instantly. I don't think that counts as Sam getting her involved with an evil book sought after by an international evil family of psychotic killers. No one knew anything about that until Charlie called them from the "payphone".
Her statement that Dean is more to blame and Sam was the one keeping her safe doesn't hold water as it states Dean was culpable for Charlie and Sam wasn't in really involved in fact he was the hero who tried to keep her safe. Sure they aren't responsible for her death, but Dean being in such a low place he made the bone headed move to the mark doesn't make him responsible for it either. If we are going to say that, which appears that disgruntled is saying then Dean is responsible for Lester selling his soul, even though he wasn't there, and Rowena casting a spell on Cas and her killing Oscar. He is responsible for all darkness and everything that happens since. But that negates everyone elses agency including Sam's. It makes Sam a silly little damsel in distress who tries and fails and really needs his hand held and I can't agree with that because it also makes Sam a special snowflake which he isn't, plus it blames Dean for other people's decisions and not them. But that aside it making Sam a special snow flake makes him a really boring character/plot device and I don't want to find him that as it means anything that he maybe responsible for I'm supposed to say isn't his fault as he resets every season to become a plot device to whatever Dean causes him to do even when Dean and everyone else around him says it will blow up in their faces and then that happens.
I am agree that Sam isn't responsible for her death, her running off or the actions of the Stynes or forced her to go but still he brought the book up and kept going with it when him and Charlie were told not to use it by Dean called her to decode it. It gives him a little more interaction with Charlie's end than Dean in a lot of ways, even though I really do get he was desparate for me it is to do with him feeling guilty about not getting or doing more to help Dean with his issues pre getting killed as I have said before. But the way he does it ties in to the side of Sam that has been there before. The part that takes after their dad. But also I have to remember he is Sam Winchester, he may not have known if the book would have worked or about the monastery or the Stynes but he knows the book is incredibly powerful and is called the book of the damned - he's smart even though he is desperate and there was little warning to Charlie to be careful. I get the desperation I do and I am still not saying he is responsible for her death or her running but can you see the likes of Bobby sending Garth for a book called that? Or even the boys without instructions to call every step of the way or a warning about anything connected to the research he's found about it? This is Charlie who's dark half thought it could get past Dean Winchester by taking him on in a physical fight - the woman maybe smart and yes feeling like she should be helping her friend who is needing it but if part of her thought she could do that in a one on one fight there is a deluded side to her that Sam should be factoring in when he tells her about the book.
It is swings and round abouts and again negates each brothers personal agency and that is the important thing. That is the thing that makes the brothers stronger together their free will builds on each other. Yes, Dean took the mark and said when they got the book, not to use it. Sam used it and brought Charlie in. Is Dean culpable for the mark yes, is he cupable for the decisions others made to cure him - no they are are. He isn't to blame for that because of that tricky thing called FREE WILL.
Same goes for every character on the show. No one is blameless and no one is entirely to blame. Now I also believe that Sam had a part in involving her with Rownena but Charlie could have declined any time she wanted to. She didn't. Because she wanted to save Dean (who recklessly took on the MOC without reading the instructions first)
Everyone played a part. Not just Sam.
That is why I am personally so excited that there doesn't appear to be a blame game going on next season. Enough already!
As you said it is cause and effect but even when the blame game isn't played in the show there does seem to be a blame game on this site and it kind of goes way past cause and effect. It seems to turn into Sam is an innocent getting dragged into things that Dean has caused and without Dean none of it would have been caused. For me it kind of takes away from Sam and makes him look like a fool for sticking around in the show.
Now Charlie is responsible for her own actions including running off and ending up in that bathroom - I've said that in every post but if you are going to look at the cause and effect of Charlie's journey with the book you start with the person who mentioned it, not the one that didn't which means Charlie's dealings with the book like it or not begin with Sam which is why I answered Disgruntled's post about Dean being more culpable than everyone else because I'm tired of the blame game and whitewashing. Because it snowballs and goes on and on then it gets thrown back to well Dean is to blame for the YED getting Mary's scent.
I don't think Sam praying to God is going to have the affect he was hoping for.
There is a culture of blame on the show, there always has been, from the very first episode. In season 4, 5 and 8 it was particularly bad but there has not been a season on the show so far where attributing blame has not played a part, even in a minor way. It's only natural that would translate to fans playing the blame game as well. And all parties do it, yourself included.
Sam is wholly responsible for the actions he took in season 10. Looking at the promo clips, he has taken full responsibility for them and as he has done numerous times before, he will clean up that mess. However, like you said 'cause and effect'. The reason those actions had to be taken was because Dean had the Mark of Cain. That's not playing the blame game, that's stating fact. If Dean had not taken on the MOC there would have been no reason to rid him of the MOC. If he hadn't taken on a biblical mark that turned him more violent, more blood thirsty and more demonic, then there would have been no reason to look for the book of the damned, to involve Rowena, to involve anyone. In this situation, Dean was the cause, what Sam did was the effect. But there is no effect without cause.
Yes Dean took the mark, never said anything against that, everyone made choices yes and because of that then we have to look at each persons own culpability if we are going to be playing the blame game which is why I replied to Disgruntled's post about Dean being the one most culpable. As I have also said Sam's actions and desperation for me are part of him now over compensating to his previous response to Dean's PTSD which the mark is part of. His desperation over it took a while after the mark was on Dean's arm - his free will and part of a three year arc. Understand why it took so long to hit but still it is part of a three year arc.
They are responsible for their own actions yes, Free will is important yes, but this always bringing it back to Dean did this and forced everyone else which it seems to always turn into here when it seems someone says Sam could be responsible for something they don't like is a bit much especially when you try and call someone on it then you find yourself at the the bottom of a pile in.
So we got a watered down version of the Mark and its effects which in turn had a bearing on Sam,story and why people did not see the urgency the writers were aiming for.
Thats really sad if you really think this is right - that means Jensen doesn't get much of a chance to flex his muscles as a actor - do you really feel that we as his audience would be holding the writers back that much -- that in fact were holding Jensen back. Oh my I hope not. He has so much talent as has Jared. I would really hate to think that we could do that to them
But it is just my view and observation that is all.
JA, in my opinion, doesn't get to flex his acting muscles as much as Jared. I don't blame the audience for that though. I blame the writers. They are the ones who insist on keeping Dean "Dean" for the most part. DD was a joke in comparison to SS. They took no chances w/DD. Karoke? Shacking up w/one woman? Beating up bad guys? Killing demons? How is any of that different from normal Dean?!? I didn't find DD frightening or particularly interesting. I think JA would have rocked if he had been allowed to depart from Dean, but he wasn't.
MOC!Dean was just as bad. As Cheryl pointed out, none of Dean's actions this season warranted Sam's extreme response after episodes of doing nothing. I guess we were really supposed to be shocked and appalled at Dean killing a bunch of human traffickers and child rapists. Guess what? I didn't care at all; however, that one episode was supposed to show why MOC!Dean was so dangerous. It didn't work for me. I mean that was the worst thing the writers could imagine? Sam drained an innocent woman of her blood. Castiel slaughtered hundreds of innocent angels. Dean just killed some dudes who would have likely killed him.
I have not rewatched S10, and I have no desire to do so. I can only say the season didn't work for me on any level.
Dean's Season 10 journey was a mixed bag for me. I disagreed with the direction they took with Demon Dean, the hedonistic, let's drink, sing bad karaoke and get laid Demon Dean we saw on screen. To me, that was out of character; I say this because of Dean's prior experiences - his time in hell after Season 3 when he started torturing others and enjoyed it, and how much he enjoyed the "purity" of being in Purgatory. Given that, my expectations were for a darker, more sadistic and evil Demon Dean. We did get glimpses of that with his first confrontation with Cole and the game of cat and mouse he played with Sam in the bunker, but it wasn't enough and, as far as the story arc went, it should have played out longer.
I also never bought in to the possibility of MoC Dean killing Sam so the end of the season really didn't work for me. For me, a more plausible scenario would have been Demon Dean killing Sam in the bunker during Soul Survivor, and then having Castiel subdue Demon Dean before resurrecting/he aling Sam. That would have spiced things up in Season 10, with Dean fighting the effects of the Mark of Cain while also dealing with the guilt and aftermath of killing Sam. It would have also given Sam's storyline of saving Dean at all costs more of a sense of urgency. I don't know if this was a decision of the writers, the showrunner, or the actors, but ultimately they didn't have the guts to go there with one of the lead characters.
Dean's MoC journey was uneven, jumbled, and went on far too long. I don't think Dean going "off the rails" was well portrayed because, at times we had to be told by Sam that this is what was happening. They could have done a much better job of showing us this with MoC Dean.
I do disagree with your comparison on Moc Dean and Soulless Sam; I did not see the similarities; Soulless Sam acted on base instinct and I didn't see that with Moc Dean or Demon Dean; Demon Dean was portrayed as hedonistic while MoC Dean tried to satisfy/quell the violent tendencies brought out by the MoC by engaging in such fun activities as taking out a nest of vampires.
I completely agree with everything else you said, except I thought Dean in his "The Prisoner" tirade was acting on base instinct, like Soulless Sam. It wasn't a full reverse the whole season, just when the MOC was under control.
For example, should Sam have waited until Dean killed another room full of humans, or another man tied to a chair or sitting in a car? Should he have waited until he killed another innocent child? Should he have waited until Dean was completely lost to the MOC so there was no getting him back or perhaps waited until Dean decided to go and take on twenty vampires on his own instead of just six? Should Sam have waited until Dean beat another friend almost to death or until Dean tried to kill him again or wished him dead again? Should he have waited until Dean got more threatening towards him, until he pulled up more things from the past to blame solely on Sam and use them as a justification for torturing him? As per your posts, all of the above are everyday, typical behaviours for Dean so they were nothing for Sam to have been worried about.
lala2, I find it so strange that you consider Sam draining an ‘innocent woman of blood’ (a woman who was possessed by a demon who ate babies but perhaps that detail wasn’t worth mentioning?) is a sign of how far they will take Sam, but Dean killing a begging, terrified child is not.
By the time Dean killed the Styne kid Sam was already well on his way with his desperate plan. He had already used Bobby, Charlie, Cas and Rowena to get the Mark removed. My point was that up until he killed Rudy and the kid Dean hadn't done anything that warranted going as far as Sam did and by then Sam had already gone too far.
When Sam killed the nurse he had the power to pull the demon out of her and save her life. It was the culmination of Sam's downward spiral that had been built on all season. It was as dark as the show has taken either brother. Sam at some level knew what he was doing was wrong. MOC possessed Dean was presumably not in control of his actions and he killed a Styne that he felt was responsible for Charlie's death or at some point would become evil. The nurse could have been saved and Sam new it.
With Dean he didn't do anything (after the cure) that warranted Sam being as desperate as he was. If Dean had been an unstoppable force like Cain or Lucifer I could have understood the moves that Sam made. My only point is that Dean's actions didn't justify Sam's reactions. The show has never taken the same risks with Dean as they have with Sam. It just would have worked better IMO if they had. Then Sam's story would have made more sense to me.
I don't think Sam was afraid for his own life. That would have never driven him to do the things he did. He was presumably afraid for Dean's life and other innocent people. The problem for me was that no innocent people were killed (and Dean was pretty much holding it together) until after Sam started his deals and coerced others to join him.
No, as the matter of fact, it wasn't the intention of the authors. Their intention was to show Sam's inner struggle. If their intention were to show how corrupted he was, we wouldn't have been shown his hesitation and his reluctance to do it. Their intention was also to show what eventually pushed him to do it and it was the false message from Dean, which struck too close to home because of those things Dean had said to him. The main theme of the show, "we keep each other human". Dean rejected his brother when he was really messed up, and it led to the releasing of Lucifer. By the way, did anybody notice that Carver constructed almost identical situation in episode 1? "It means you are a monster" - said Dean to Sam after he had tracked him down, thinking that Sam was turning into a demon. And later: "Sam's gone. He's gone. I'm not even sure if he's still my brother anymore. If he ever was". And Sam after tracking down Dean, knowing that he is a demon: "You are my brother and I'm here to take you home".
Why do you think he did so?
Sam had other reasons which I have already stated and they were enough for me.Ths styne kid was for me when Dean went off the rail the second time and when Dean ceased being a hero for me.
Plus, if a ‘MOC possessed Dean was presumably not in control of his actions’ then surely he needs to be stopped. When Dean isn’t in control of his actions he engages in mass slaughter. He is an unstoppable force, like Cain or Lucifer so Sam’s actions seem to be entirely justified. Cain, just like Dean, engaged in the murder of people he believed deserved it, and Dean did this at the start of the season.
When Sam killed the demon possessed, baby eating, nurse, he did it to try and stop Lucifer from rising. Sam and Dean have killed dozens upon dozens of demons, and they can all be saved, not just the demon Sam killed. Many times they killed them for information to try and help others so Sam killing a demon to help save the lives of others is nothing new for him.
I’m unsure as to what is desperate about Sam’s plan. He did research over a long period of time, he didn’t go into what he did lightly. He knew there would be consequences but he also knew there would be consequences if he did nothing. He weighted up the pros and cons and then gave people a choice. He didn’t force or trick them into it. They could have chosen to say no, they didn’t because they too saw and/or experienced that Dean was getting worse, and they did it for him.
In relation to the show not taking the same risks with Dean as they do with Sam, the show does take risks with Dean. What they fail to do is give anyone else a point of view bar Dean. So as long as Dean says he is okay then many people believe him to be okay. Back in season 4, Dean constantly said that Sam was getting worse and becoming more evil yet when you look at what Sam actually did, he wasn’t. He was saving lives and killing demons. What condemned Sam in season 4 (and many other times after that) were Dean’s words and not just Sam’s actions. Unfortunately, there is no-one on the show who will criticize Dean for his actions so, for the audience, everything is ‘okay’.
And yes, a lot of people take Dean's opinion as the authors' point of view, even Sam's girls. I don't know why. Sometimes we are given the authors' point of view, but once it was through Chuck, and now they use Metatron, but mostly in a taunting manner. This season they gave their point of view through the teenage author in episode 5.
The things that Sam did that you feel were unjustified were:
(a) Dealt with a witch - Something Sam and Dean have done before
(b) Ask Bobby for help - They've been doing that since season one
(c) Ask Castiel - They've been doing that since season four
(d) Ask Charlie for help - They've been doing that since season seven
And really it was Sam's actions that inadvertently pushed Dean over the edge.
a) Dealt with a witch- well this witch had killed an innocent girl right in front of Sam and tried to kill Dean. And Sam handed over a very powerful book of unspeakable evil. They've never done that before.
b)Ask Bobby for help- Yes they have asked Bobby for help but Bobby was resting peacefully in heaven. Sam knew that Bobby would be punished for what he had done.
c)Ask Castiel- yes they have and I think Cas has a lot to answer for too. After all he just stood there while Rowena killed an innocent man.
d) Ask Charlie for help- Yes they have but Sam knew what he was asking was far more dangerous than anything he had asked before. Of course he didn't mean to get Charlie killed and she was largely responsible for her own decisions but Sam involved her in a very dangerous plot and he knew he was risking her life. But like he told himself in the Werther Project "you'll do anything to save that doomed brother of yours".
b) Bobby is a hunter. He needs to help people. He choose to do what he did because he wanted to help Sam and Dean and also to save lives. In his letter to Sam he said that while he might have been ‘content’ in heaven, getting the call from him was the ‘happiest he’s been in forever’. And there is no evidence that Bobby was punished, merely assumption.
c) Point being that asking Castiel for help is nothing new so it was not unjustified. Castiel had killed innocent people before that but Sam and Dean had no hesitation in working with him.
d) There’s no evidence it was more dangerous than walking into a building full of Leviathans, who at the time were the most dangerous creatures in the world, and stealing their files when they were right there, especially when she was merely a civilian. However, her skills were needed so they asked her. Her skills were needed for the codex so Sam asked her. And working with the ‘most dangerous witch in the world’ wasn’t what got her killed. (Add to that at this point, Rowena was nothing more than a two-bit witch who happened to be the mummy of the king of hell. Nothing we saw on the show indicated she was the most dangerous witch in the world.) And don’t forget, in that scene both Castiel and Charlie said they were doing it ‘For Dean’. They weren’t doing it for Sam.
In order to be pushed over the edge then you need to be on the edge, and per your previous comments Dean wasn’t anywhere near the edge, he was perfectly fine so I’m not sure exactly how you’re holding Sam responsible. Sam’s actions didn’t drive Dean over anything. At the time Rowena got involved Dean had already massacred people, he was already more violent and bloodthirsty. He was already more out of control. Sam didn’t drive him to kill the Stynes or to get Rudy killed. He did that all on his own. Dean knew it too, that's why he went to Death. If Sam was responsible for Dean's actions then Dean would have went to Sam to stop him.
MOC Dean is not similar to Souless Sam, who was merely cold and calculating, not uncaring. SS cared about getting a job done. He cared about himself. He still saved people; he just calculated the most efficient way to do it, factoring in and accepting collateral damage. There really is something terrifying about the "you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs" attitude that SS had. He was clinical, while DD is uncaring. SS is like a doctor who has no bedside manor, while DD is like the janitor who unconcernedly mops the floor around a patient who's screaming in pain.
Regular Dean may well be suffering from PTSD, but Sam had to be traumatized as well when Dean and Cas vanished at the end of Season 7. Running away like he did seemed natural to me. It's the kind of thing one does here in the States-jump in your car and drive until something makes you stop.
I want to see Sam and Dean helping us regular people again. My very favorite episode is "Dead in the Water" and I'd like to see more stories like that. When was the last time we saw Dean talk to a little kid?