The Winchester Family Business - Fan Video of the Week: Supernatural Reflections "The Things We Left Behind"

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"Dean: Team Free Will. One ex-blood junkie, one dropout with 6 bucks to his name, and Mr. Comatose over there. Awesome." 5.13 The Song Remains the Same

New week and again new tricks. This video hunt of the week started like any other, trying to find the idea and inspiration. Last week I already used the women of Supernatural theme so I needed to think something else. I checked if the episode had a song I could search for and use and even that idea was a dead end. The episode had the scene and story about John Winchester but a nice video for that was already covered by Wednesday on her review article that you can find here: RearView Review: Supernatural 10.09

So again I needed to find something else. I was surfing youtube for videos. Clicking the mouse button and leaning on my arm, videos among videos flashed by my weary eyes. Nothing seemed to hit me as an idea but luckily that did not last long. It is weird I didn’t catch up on it earlier. The idea was actually something that I genuinely root for in Supernatural and wish the writers could make possible to have more in next season and that is Team Free Will and their friendship.

All three actors and their characters work really well together. They have chemistry with each other and the actors have fun on set. Sam, Dean and Castiel are brothers in arms, soldiers that have done mistakes but still are redeemed among their small family which members are growing thin as years go by. Only these three remain and they occasionally get help from their love-to-hate frenemy and fourth wheel Crowley.

"Castiel: And of course, I remember the most remarkable event. Remarkable because it never came to pass. It was averted by two boys, an old drunk, and a fallen angel." 6.20 The Man Who Would Be King

The trio is also the original TFW that was mentioned and later also Bobby Singer was included to TFW vol. 2. For me though Team Free will have had people supporting it during these ten years but at the same time it is clear that free will doesn’t come without a cost. So who are these honorary members you ask? Fans have chosen different characters to it through time and here are few that have been mentioned. Three of my favorites are Ellen, Jo and Ash, the road house gang, Rufus, Meg, Charlie, Kevin, Frank, Trickster/Gabriel/Loki the archangel and even Rowena that didn’t do it voluntarily though.

This week I also tackled something else to give a personal twist to the video I chose. I will put up a video of another show. It has the same song, a friendship that is legendary and a TFW of their own. More about it after the lyrics and introduction and who knows… Maybe some of you might want to give it a try.

team free will | light 'em up made by: Deductism

My Songs Know What You Did In The Dark by Fall Out Boy

Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.
Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.

B-B-B-Be careful making wishes in the dark, dark
Can't be sure when they've hit their mark
And besides in the mean, mean time
I'm just dreaming of tearing you apart

I'm in the de-details with the devil
So now the world can never get me on my level
I just gotta get you off the cage
I'm a young lover's rage
Gonna need a spark to ignite

My songs know what you did in the dark

So light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
I'm on fire

So light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
I'm on fire

Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.
In the dark, dark
Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.
In the dark, dark

All the writers keep writing what they write
Somewhere another pretty vein just dies
I've got the scars from tomorrow and I wish you could see
That you’re the antidote to everything except for me, me

A constellation of tears on your lashes
Burn everything you love, then burn the ashes
In the end everything collides
My childhood spat back out the monster that you see

My songs know what you did in the dark

So light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
I'm on fire

So light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
I'm on fire

Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.
In the dark, dark
Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.
In the dark, dark

My songs know what you did in the dark
(My songs know what you did in the dark)

So light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
I'm on fire

So light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
Light 'em up, up, up
I'm on fire

Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.
In the dark, dark
Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.
In the dark, dark

Oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa, oh, oh, whoa.

Fall Out Boy is an American rock band formed in Wilmette, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago, in 2001. The band consists of vocalist and guitarist Patrick Stump, bassist Pete Wentz, guitarist Joe Trohman, and drummer Andy Hurley. The band originated from Chicago's hardcore punk scene, with which Wentz was heavily involved. The group was formed by Wentz and Trohman as a pop punk side project of their respective hardcore bands, and Stump joined shortly thereafter. The group went through a succession of drummers before landing Hurley and recording their debut album, Take This to Your Grave (2003), which became an underground success and helped the band gain a dedicated fanbase through heavy touring, as well as some moderate commercial success.

While Fall Out Boy's music has been typically described as pop punk and pop rock, the band were generally seen in the mid-2000s at the forefront of the "emo pop" explosion. Take This to Your Grave has often been cited as an influential blueprint for pop punk music in the 2000s.

Quotes:

Dean: We know John Winchester isn't going to win any #1 Dad awards, but damn if he wasn't there when we needed him.

Castiel: He saved you.
Dean: Yeah and you know what he got for that? Me whining about how much he embarrassed me. Me telling him that I hated him. But then he stopped and turned around looked at me and said, 'Son, you don't like me that's fine. It's not my job to be liked.'
Sam: 'It's my job to raise you right.'
Dean: And he did.

Now, let me introduce you to the other show and its Team Free Will.

maxresdefault

TFW of The Musketeers

The show is based on the novels and characters of Alexandre Dumas. Their story has been told by books but also through many TV shows and movie adaptations. In recent years the movies have been in quality very weak and they have lost their way and the feeling that belongs to the story. Musketeers as a show are in general structured very similar as Supernatural. It focuses on four of the main characters that are supported by the other cast. They are heroes that are flawed and they make mistakes which makes it easy to relate to them. Women are independent and strong characters. Their bond is strong brotherhood of arms and family doesn’t end in blood fits to describe their relationship.

That is few reasons why I like about the show but there is so much more. It is the chivalry, the sword fights, the right actors to play characters. All of the characters fit to their roles. The show has humor, drama and romance. The fan videos that I found have all the main players on it and I liked the way both of them were made. You can find more information about the show here and if you think that some of the cast might look familiar they very well might have been on a show/movie you have watched.

Cast:

Tom Burke as Athos
Luke Pasqualino as D'artagnan
Santiago Cabrera as Aramis
Howard Charles as Porthos
Tamla Kari as Constance Bonacieux
Maimie McCoy as Milady de Winter
Hugo Speer as Captain Treville
Ryan Gage as King Louis XIII
Alexandra Dowling as Queen Anne

To read more about the show and cast visit here: The Musketeers official page

Quotes:

Aramis: All for one...
Athos, Porthos & D'artagnan: ...and one for all.

2x10 Trial And Punishment

the musketeers - light em up made by: sejuti Mansur

The Three Musketeers (French: Les Trois Mousquetaires) is a novel by Alexandre Dumas.

Set in the 17th century, it recounts the adventures of a young man named d'Artagnan, (based on Charles de Batz-Castelmore d'Artagnan) after he leaves home to travel to Paris, to join the Musketeers of the Guard. D'Artagnan is not one of the musketeers of the title; those being his friends Athos, Porthos and Aramis, inseparable friends who live by the motto "all for one, one for all" ("tous pour un, un pour tous"), a motto which is first put forth by d'Artagnan.

In genre, The Three Musketeers is primarily a historical novel and adventure. However, Dumas also frequently works into the plot various injustices, abuses and absurdities of the old regime, giving the novel an additional political aspect at a time when the debate in France between republicans and monarchists was still fierce. The story was first serialized from March to July 1844, during the July Monarchy, four years before the French Revolution of 1848 violently established the Second Republic. The author's father, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas, had been a well-known General in France's Republican army during the French Revolutionary Wars.

The story of d'Artagnan is continued in Twenty Years After and The Vicomte of Bragelonne: Ten Years Later. Those three novels by Dumas are together known as the d'Artagnan Romances.

References:

en.wikipedia.org
azlyrics.com
supernaturalwiki.com
The Musketeer official webpage

What did you think about the videos? Share your thoughts below.

Comments

# AlyCat22 2015-07-29 02:40

Interesting. Related more emotionally to the Supernatual video of course. The Three Musketeers video was beautiful. Honestly tho my brain kept reverting back to the picture of the Three Musketeers and their Plus One that you posted before the vid and all I could think was how much I would love to see Jensen and Jared in that garb. OMG. Hel-low!

# Lilah_Kane 2015-07-29 04:24

Quote:

Honestly tho my brain kept reverting back to the picture of the Three Musketeers and their Plus One that you posted before the vid and all I could think was how much I would love to see Jensen and Jared in that garb. OMG. Hel-low!

It was eye candy wasn't it? Can't blame you though as the costumes and specially the armor of the Musketeers are very well made in the show. I would pick the two armor in the middle, Dean having the left and Sam having the right armor. ;)

Glad you liked both videos!

- Lilah

# spnlit 2015-07-30 11:55

I found that whole dialogue not credible and was a lame attempt to tie their relationship with their father to whiny Claire and the current trend of entitled teenagers telling their parents they hate them. Dean Winchester would have never told his father ever that he hated him; not as a teenager or adult. Every prior episode that showed or referenced Dean's relationship to his father depicted respect, deference, a need for love, and as a child even fear. Dean was marked by the death of his mother and understood what his father was coping with and seeking to destroy; monsters evil, his mother's killer.
Dean was enlisted if you will, into that battle the moment his father told him him in that defining moment to take Sammy and run. Dean was not a whiner. And as a footnote, Castiel knew what relationship Dean and Sam had with their father. Dean already talked to him about this when Cas was looking for his father, GOD. So it also seemed ridiculous that Castiel would ask this question in the first place and start the conversation.
CASTIEL:
No, I don’t. I never knew my father. He was distant, to say the least. (Sam and Dean knew this.... they where in the Garden and got the message to give to Cas.)
[Cas turns to Dean.]
What about you? Did you love your father?
[Dean looks to Sam, then back to Cas.]
DEAN: With everything I had.
In addition, I found this whole storyline mundane and boring on level with ABC Family drama: "Claire: You changed. The Castiel I met, he was crappy, like super stuck-up and a dick and you just wanted to punch him in his stupid angel face." And I am with Dean in regard to the whole "Claire" issue: "No Cas, an emergency is a dead body, okay or a wigged out angel, or the Apocalypse take three. Some chick bolting on you is no emergency, that's every Friday night for Sam."

I know, this post is not a comment on your videos but it does tie in your quoted dialogue.

# Lilah_Kane 2015-07-30 13:59

I was actually wondering if you posted first on the right article but then I remembered the quote. Aaaanyway, I saw the whole scene very differently and I do need to respectfully disagree with your points. First Castiel needed to talk so even opening a small talk with things he knows might open up the conversation to what answers he needs to get. Second, the brothers are not perfect and I am totally fine with that. That is why I like them as much I do. And I can actually believe Dean as a teenager to go to a concert to see a band he likes and say those things to his father while roofied, drunk and having a hangover. Teenagers sometimes do things they normally wouldn't do. Like Dean left Sam alone against his father's wishes and Sam was attacked while he was gone. Young Dean is not the grownup Dean and even as a grownup both of them have made mistakes.

Seeing it as I do it is just a normal childhood story and even though Claire is not my cup of tea that much she grew on me later because the character grew but she is not out of the waters yet.

- Lilah

# AlyCat22 2015-08-01 04:25

Agreed. To say that Dean as a teenager would never raise his voice or argue with his father, especially in this instance as you said he was drunk and roofied, is ludicrous. Yes Dean obeyed and respected his father but the boys weren't automatons. I'm fairly certain if you were disrespectful to John Winchester you were going to pay a price but that wouldn't stop Dean if he had a head of steam, drunk or sober. Especially as a teenager. And when they are saying way underage, I'm thinking 16 or thereabouts because legal is 21. I think some are envisioning even younger which I kind of doubt.

# BoGirle 2015-07-30 19:23

I agree spnlit. I found that whole conversation incredibly forced in a "lets create a parallel!" writing 101 kind of way. It's also another chapter in the 'let's rewrite Dean's childhood' saga that began with Adam Glass. Dean was not, let me repeat NOT a rebel; Sam was the rebel. Sam and John fought, not Dean and John. That was made abundantly clear in many, many episodes over the years and was a huge part of the foundation of the entire show. Dean=the good soldier, the dutiful son, unquestioning, loyal. Sam=restless, wanting out, argumentative, self sufficient. The difficulty between the brothers and with the brothers and their father all stem from these core characteristics . I don't like them changing things at this point simply because one or two writers find it more interesting to make Dean a rebel now, after all this time. Dean may have been a rebel with his peers, but with his father he absolutely was not. The whole CBGB story does not ring true for either brother quite frankly. Dean would never have snuck off; not if his father forbade it and not if Sam needed him to be there. And Sam, something like a drunken rout at a dive bar was not his scene. I don't have any trouble seeing Sam defy John, but not for something like that. Mandatory reviewing of ALL episodes should be on all the writer's agenda if you ask me. They are pretty much making up past story as they go without looking back to canon to guide them in what might suit that character and what might look really out of place.

# spnlit 2015-07-30 23:54

I agree with you that the story was a contrived parallel of Claire's whining. In fact the whole episode was brought down to the level of domestic child squabbling.
Claire to Castiel: "You changed. The Castiel I met, he was crappy, like super stuck-up and a dick and you just wanted to punch him in his stupid angel face."
Crowley with Mommy issues: She was a horrible mother. Did I tell you the time that she almost traded me for three pigs, three! I was an attractive child, I could juggle. I was worth five pigs, at least.
So Dean was turned into a whiner too:
Could you just see this as a flashback scene!

Hardcore Punk club in New York. Dean drunk but not fun drunk, not quite sure what was in that stuff, the room starts to spin, and he feel like he is going to puke forever. Enter John Winchester Dean hears him bellowing his name: 'Dean Winchester.' Dean really freaking out, because his father is just standing there not saying anything. Everyone else is freaking out too in fact no one is looking him in the eye, then finally this one guy with like a safety pin in his nose and a 'kill everything' tattoo looks up and he says 'sorry sir.' Then Dean goes back with his Father in a state of feeling the room spin to the point where he is going to puke "like forever", and "freaking out" and he says.... What? As Dean tells it something along the lines of "Yeah and you know what he got for that? Me whining about how much he embarrassed me. Me telling him that I hated him." - As Dean is hugging the toilet, "Dad you embarrassed me, in front of all my new friends, I hate you, you never let me do anything, I'm not finishing this job with you, find the ghost yourself. Then John stops and turns around looks at Dean and said, 'Son, you don't like me that's fine. It's not my job to be liked.' 'It's my job to raise you right.' ;) I have hope the new writer will at least consult Supernatural Wiki and take it up a notch!

# Lilah_Kane 2015-07-31 01:24

One incident from his past doesn't turn Dean a rebel. That is why I think he remembered the story. Also, as I have nothing against Adam Glass and I don't hold it against a writer which character they say they like to write because nobody is allowed to say to me either which character I should like. It also doesn't make him immediately bias like it doesn't make me bias either. (Don't shoot me. Some of the comments have come down like this in my eyes) Also I have seen and read evidence to the contrary. Luckily the other writers have remained quiet about their favorites that they don't get under a microscope. I sometimes wish the writers of the episodes would remain hidden because the judgment hammer seem to swing immediately when writers name is revealed. For good and bad. And I know your opinion might be it is "not" canon but mine isn't. And even if it is my opinion I don't see it as fact so I don't see myself wishing the writers to go my way. This is actually answer to both comments upwards and as the quote from the story that I posted really shows the points why it could have happened I just bow out on this point and agree to disagree. Wouldn't have anything to add to the discussion anyway. :)

All in all this comes down to people's own interpretation. Children/teenag ers do sometimes stuff that they wouldn't do. Even dangerous things. I was no different but it also didn't come to be a habit. Sometimes the one lesson was enough and sometimes it wasn't.

Also I sometimes miss sarcasm when it is posted so apologies if some has been that. Lost in translation is my excuse.

- Lilah

# spnlit 2015-08-01 09:08

I think we can agree we have both adequately expressed our opinions. For me everything about this "incident" did not seem credible. Biggest point is that Dean under any circumstances would not have told his father that he hates him. So for me the whole thing gets discarded. To make this clear I am expressing my opinion based on the script and development of characters. I am not commenting on your real world perspective: Quote:

All in all this comes down to people's own interpretation. Children/teenagers do sometimes stuff that they wouldn't do. Even dangerous things. I was no different but it also didn't come to be a habit. Sometimes the one lesson was enough and sometimes it wasn't.

I am also not commenting or arguing any personal bias on your part or the writers. Quote:

It also doesn't make him immediately bias like it doesn't make me bias either

# BoGirle 2015-08-01 10:06

Agreed spnlit. This entire scenario does not work for me either, and chances of me changing my mind, especially after having suffered through the episode a second time, are slim to none. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with Lilah and AlyCat.. My interpretation of the scene is based on the actual scene itself and its relevance to the world created on the show with no comparison to real life. To me a TV show has a duty to be credible within it's own world and that credibility depends on the writers. In this case Dabb (who is often quite good) dropped the ball. This scene is shoehorned in to force a connection that is unnecessary by creating a scenario from Dean's past that is not credible given his characterizatio n.

# spnlit 2015-08-01 10:13

Agreed. Good points and well stated.

# BoGirle 2015-07-31 06:38

Heheh! Sounds like the worst cliche of an after school special dripping with "tough love." Sounds about right. And Lilah, yes, children who are not generally rebellious will rebel on occasion in real life, but this is a TV show. To make a story about Dean rebelling work it would need to be framed better, set up better and not come out of the blue and run counter to 10 years of established canon for no better reason than an anecdote. It's lazy writing. It was more interesting for the writer to write Dean that way in a "hey, every kid rebels once in a while" kind of way that is very general, generic and non-speicific rather than for that writer to wade through 230 some episodes to find out if that kind of rebellion (for zero gain story wise) made any kind of logical sense given the character. Watching the striga episode should have told the writer that 'no,' Dean probably would not have rebelled against John in that way. Didn't work for me in the slightest in the same way pretty much all of About a Boy didn't work for me either. The Dean Winchester I know would never have gambled the food money away.... he just wouldn't, not with is dad on a hunt, in danger, maybe dead and him solely responsible for a 10 year old Sam. He just wouldn't.

# Lilah_Kane 2015-07-31 08:05

Yes, it is a tv show but! Here comes the but. I liked them having a we time and Dean telling the story. I mean we have gotten glimpses about the boys youth by stories and even episodes before but still we don't know what they did every second before we saw them in the pilot. And one time is not rebellion. By that sense I have rebelled against my parents for my whole life. Because of experience I am not judging things which I don't know all sides about or all the unknown factors and this is that kind of case for me. In this case without knowing all the facts the story is possible in how I see it or it doesn't fit at all. Both is possible. So I can use guidelines from real life and experience I have heard and seen. In short, I just really liked the storytelling moment and quiet time. Also I do see Sam and Dean differently of course because we all do so that also plays to it.

Sorry, have really hard time to explain this in a way what I mean. I blame fridays. :)

- Lilah

# AlyCat22 2015-08-01 04:35

Lilah you are explaining it just fine. I understand exactly where you are coming from.

# Lilah_Kane 2015-08-01 04:53

Thanks Aly. I was thinking I didn't make sense at all.

- Lilah

# lala2 2015-08-01 19:42

I also agree w/you and Spnlit! The very idea that Dean would sneak out, get roofied, and yell out that he hated his dad was completely NOT credible. The story was simply unbelievable. Dean did not question John's order, esp. after the whole SW affair back when John left them at that hotel for days. Dean learned then what questioning John's orders could lead to, which is why he stopped doing. Heck, Sam seemed very resentful of the fact that Dean was the dutiful soldier when they were kids.

If anyone would have snuck out, it would have been Sam, but as you said the entire story was completely unbelievable. Nothing about it rang true. It was forced and contrived.

# BoGirle 2015-08-01 20:10

Hi lala! it's E in case you didn't know... I finally created a login name and wasn't able to use a single letter screen name.... I miss being E though. Anyhoo, thanks for chiming in. I understand that this scenario worked for some, but it didn't work for me. I need the drama as written and presented on my screen to make sense given what's gone before. The Striga episode, AVSNC with the boy's flashbacks even anecdotes about Dean "embracing the life" and arguments between Sam and Dean about Sam's rebellion and Dean's loyalty were plentiful and pervasive and don't jibe with that story of Dean sneaking off at all. In season 10 there was a trend of forcing connections between Dean and various characters, in this case Claire. In the very next episode, the wretchedly bad Hunter Games (see Wednesday's Rear View Review, it's very thorough) shows how much the writers were trying to cram a Clair = Dean connection down our throats. There is just no such connection.... all of it rings false. Maybe that's why I hated Crissy so much, because the "connection" between she and Dean seemed so heavy handed that I was totally put off by the character. I dislike Claire for the same reason and she has far less in common with Dean in which a connection between them makes any kind of sense. Maybe if Dean had snuck off to CBGB's, met a couple of assassins who told Dean that they'd kill John for him, then maybe.........: p

# lala2 2015-08-02 17:52

Hi, E :)

I'm sorry you couldn't register w/your old screen name. I wonder why that was.

Anyhoo, I couldn't agree more w/you about the episode. It didn't work for me on any level either. Nothing about the story seemed true. None of it seemed like anything Dean would actually do. I just don't see the Dean we've come to know over the years sneaking off. I just don't. The problem is Kripke did such a masterful job - IMO - of establishing these characters that any new aspects of them should jive - IMO at least - with Kripke's vision of the boys and the show. Dean learned at 8 or 9 in SW why he should follow John's orders. He and Sam constantly fought about Dean's unwillingness to NOT blindly follow John's order. So I don't see him sneaking off to go to some club. It just doesn't ring true to me. He would be too worried about something attacking Sam and John to do that.

That's also the reason I found BB to be the most destructive episode ever penned. It completely re-wrote Dean's history, turning him into a huge hypocrite and making all of his early season fights w/Sam pointless. Why be angry w/Sam for going to college or having happy memories w/o Dean and John if Dean had the exact SAME feelings and had happy memories at Sonny's place?!?!!? Why was Sam made to feel so guilty by Dean when Dean felt the same things?!?!? I also hated BB b/c Sam was written as a moron in both the past and the present. BB is the worst episode of SPN, in my opinion, solely b/c it retconned the basic foundation of the freaking show!

But, yeah . . . this club story was just like BB: some writer's version of how Dean was as a child instead of an actual representation of the Dean we've come to know over the course of the show.

# BoGirle 2015-08-02 21:00

Yeah... I hated BB too; it's not on my bottom 5 worst episodes of all time, but it's probably number 6. I'm not at all sad to see the door close behind Adam Glass. It's like he decided that he liked Sam's background better and decided to give it to Dean. Annoying in the extreme.
E

# anonymousN 2015-08-03 04:38

Exactlly E and Lala.

# lala2 2015-08-03 21:18

Yeah . . . I'm not sad to see him go either. BB is definitely my least episode. After watching it, I couldn't help but wonder why Dean was so upset w/Sam for going off to college? Why was Sam made to feel like a "bad son" for leaving the family when that's what Dean wanted to do too? I know some felt BB built on Dean's background, but I felt it destroyed him (and the show's foundation). Ugh. . . . I hate that episode. I esp hate the picture of Sam playing w/a toy plane out of the back window like a 4-year old! Argh!!!! Had AG never watched any of the prior episodes before he wrote that crap?!?!?! And I'm supposed to believe Dean was just fine at that boys home for all those months and never once thought about Sam or John?!?!? Or that Sam just accepted that Dean was "lost" on a hunt?!?!?! Really?!?! Did AG even understand the characters before he wrote that mess of an episode?!?!

Okay . . . sorry for the mini rant!

# anonymousN 2015-08-03 04:32

Dean=the good soldier, the dutiful son, unquestioning, loyal. Sam=restless, wanting out, argumentative, self sufficient. The difficulty between the brothers and with the brothers and their father all stem from these core characteristics.

It has got to do with the fact of how John was perceived by many.In the earlier seasons John was shown as a flawed human and a flawed father..who did his fair share of mistakes and his share of brilliant things.

Then the show was afflicted with a sickness of Dean=good , sam=bad; Dean's experiece shown and told, Sam's experience=Told if we are lucky and shown when it is too late,

Now see in the fandom many of the vocal fans hate John he is just the worst father for them...so now if they show Dean told his father he hated him and you know sam who is standing just behind him who has been known to be a rebel..some thing like Claire ..it is not a one off rebellious action like they told us about Dean (sick)...It was a continuous thing a more apt parallel was between claire and sam's rebellious natures.

But the show nowadays goes by the mantra of "No new characters should have anything common with Sam,all are Dean friends" (repeat after me).

So what if while doing this you force something...It is carver and it is the norm...For a guy whose only reasoning for Sam not looking (season

is he wanted to try something (and here I was hoping to see what happened to sam in the initial moments some insight into sam then)...but you see it is carver and any characteristic of Sam he can leach he will ...any previous cannon to butcher carver will search for the largest carving knife available...

# lala2 2015-08-03 21:22

And you know what was so troublesome about Carver's stance in S8? He NEVER told us the story of Sam not looking. We never got any insight into WHY Sam thought Dean was dead or why Sam decided to not look for Dean. All we got was some retconned promise btw the brothers. That's it. What a joke!

# spnlit 2015-07-30 16:05

Yes, I knew you would be wondering if I posted on the right article, that is why I included a reference to the quote as a closing reference. I noticed you have a preference for only relevant comments and those within the confines of your posted guidelines. I respect your belief that Dean would tell his father that he hates him and I still disagree. I realize young Dean is not the grownup Dean. I also agree with your comment that both Sam and Dean have made mistakes as adults and that it is a very human quality for which is why many fans including you and myself love and accept "the boys".
What we know about young Dean is that he learned that in his abnormal world, the monster world, his actions of wanting to play video games instead of watching his brother could mean death of his brother and he was deeply imprinted with his guilt of letting his brother come close to harm and disappointing his father. We saw the ongoing effect this had on him and his determination to follow his Father's orders to redeem himself in his father's eyes by killing the Shtriga in Something Wicked 1.18 We also know that as a child he accepted much responsibility and had understanding for his father as in In MY Time of Dying (2.01).
John: You know, when you were a kid, I'd come home from a hunt, and after what I'd seen, I'd be, I'd be wrecked. And you, you'd come up to me and you, you'd put your hand on my shoulder and you'd look me in the eye and you'd... You'd say 'It's okay, Dad.' Dean, I'm sorry.
Dean: What?
John: You shouldn't have had to say that to me, I should have been saying that to you. You know, I put, I put too much on your shoulders, I made you grow up too fast. You took care of Sammy, you took care of me. You did that, and you didn't complain, not once. I just want you to know that I am so proud of you.

Our glimpse of Dean as a teenager is in two episodes: Dean lost money in a gambling game and then went out to steal food for Sammy another juvenile judgment error. When his father came for him at Sonny's home for wayward boys at age 16 he saw Sam and packed up and dutifully went back to the family business. (Bad Boys 9.07). In 4.13 Dean was still watching out for Sam, albeit while attempting to seduce girls, but again moving fast when his Dad came to pick them up. You see teenage Dean drunk, drugged and rebellious telling his father he hates him as "a normal childhood story". But again, Dean was not a normal child or teenager. Dean recalls his own teenage years in Bloodlust 2.03
Dean: "So. I pick up this crossbow. And I hit that ugly sucker with a silver-tipped arrow right in his heart. Sammy's waiting in the car, and uh, me and my Dad take the thing into the woods, burn it to a crisp. I'm sitting there and looking into the fire, and I'm thinking to myself, I'm sixteen years old. Most kids my age are worried about pimples, prom dates. I'm seeing things that they'll never even know. Never even dream of. So right then, I just sort of --
Gordon: Embraced the life?
Dean: Yeah.
We know that Dean worked with his father while Sam was away at college and was challenged by Sam for blindly following Dad's orders. I think Dean knew to stay alive, there was a method to being a hunter. Dean respected his father and followed orders. Dead man's Blood 1.20.
So I think based on what we have seen of Dean as a child, teenager and adult, Dean has made mistakes but he was never disrespectful, rebellious, or whiny. I can agree that MAYBE Dean went out to the infamous club, saw a band he liked, got drunk and drugged but that is a big maybe because he was with his Dad working a case. I disagree that Dean Winchester, ever told John, his father, his idol (music, car, and leather jacket) that he hates him.

# Lilah_Kane 2015-07-30 17:43

Sam: Hey, uh, tell him about that time in New York.
Dean: Oh Yeah... Yeah, okay so, ah. We were working this haunting in Long Island, and me and Sam begged the old man to let us go to the city, for once.
Sam: He had this thing about New York; too big, too loud, too dirty.
Dean: And he hated the Yankees.
Sam: Big time, yeah.
Dean: Some how we convinced him to let us go. So we all go, we all you know see the sites and ride the subway, eat too much pizza, the whole nine. By about midnight Sam and Dad are zonked, and I figure 'screw it, I'm going to CBGB.'
Sam: CBGB is...
Castiel: I know. It's where the Ramones and Blondie got their start.
Sam: Right, wow. Anyway he was way underage at the time.
Dean: So I get there, I sneak in, and it is nuts. I mean people are drinking, and they're smoking, and they're snorting whatever. There's a 500 pound guy on the stage with mohawk just screaming. My mind is blown I don't even know what to do. Then this girl walks up, and she's 'Hey why don't come over sit down with me and my friends at this table,' 'yeah, alright.'
Sam: Yeah and they get him drunk. First time.
Dean: But not fun drunk, I'm not quite sure what was in that stuff, but the room starts to spin, and I feel like I'm going to puke forever. Right about that time, I hear him. 'Dean Winchester.' My old man, I don't know how but he found me. And now I'm really freaking out, because he's just standing there not saying anything, and I look around everyone else is freaking out too in fact no one is looking him in the eye, then finally this one guy with like a safety pin in his nose and a 'kill everything' tattoo looks up and he says 'sorry sir.' Yeah, 'sorry sir' heh. John frickin' Winchester.

Well, Sam and John were safe so Dean decided to sneak out. Also he got drunk for the first time of his life. I can believe him being drunk and angry to say he hated him. Meaning is another matter. And he was also still underage so. I just believe that all children are sometimes chaotic even though their lives would seem against it. Even Dean Winchester's.

- Lilah

# spnlit 2015-07-30 22:41

I just believe that all children are sometimes chaotic even though their lives would seem against it. Even Dean Winchester's.

Okay. I understand all of us come at this story from their own perspective or belief.

# lala2 2015-08-01 19:51

I'm w/you completely! I hated that stupid club story. It did not ring true to me in the slightest. None of it. Not Dean sneaking out. Not Dean getting roofied or whatever. And definitely not Dean yelling out that he hated John.

It was a silly, contrived story to force the Clair/Cas lame story.

# AlyCat22 2015-08-01 04:49

Exactly. Sam was safe with John, why wouldn't he sneak out? When would he ever have another chance to visit that club? Sometimes doing something you really want is worth taking the punishment for if you are caught.. ;) Sam said John hated NY, so it was a kind of "strike while the iron is hot" type of thing. Dean telling his father that he had embarrassed him in public and that he hated him couldn't have been too unexpected for John to hear from his eldest as his response was pretty measured not to mention wise. John used it as a teachable moment, what does everyone else think he would've one? Hauled off and hit Dean because he backtalked? John probably figured Dean's roofie hangover was going to be punishment enough...

# BoGirle 2015-08-02 21:12

I'm not sure that this post belongs here, but since it's about a video I thought maybe it was ok to put it here?

An absolutely BRILLIANT video of a precocious little girl stopping Mark Sheppard in his tracks with her incredible sense of timing. She's got future performer written all over her. Enjoy!
E
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKwhLWyR2dA[/video]

# Barbara Maake 2015-08-02 21:40

VERY funny! And wasn't that Dean's gym teacher outfit she was wearing, which also cracked me up.

# BoGirle 2015-08-03 07:30

Yes, she's got Dean's gym teacher outfit down to the the smallest detail. WC Fields was right. A smart kid will steal your limelight every time!

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