WEDNESDAY'S WATCHING

Supernatural 11.10

"The Devil in the Details"
Writer: Andrew Dabb Director: Thomas J. Wright
Director of Photography C.S.C: Serge Ladouceur
Airdate: 20.01.2016

BY WEDNESDAY

What did I watch?

1AWATCHBORD

THE SCRIPT

META VOICES IN MY HEAD

A1METADEFBORD

The Angels, proving themselves to be dicks, cowardly send a small angel to
investigate Amara's smiting.

A2AMBBORD

STRAWFAN: AMBRIEL, A number crunching angel appears as a STRAWFAN.
                                                          Because she works with the minutiae of heaven, she replicates
                                              a Meta fan who obsessively follows Supernatural canon,
  OR, a Japanese Manga OTAKU.
She speaks with a fan's voice.

AMBRIEL: I work in birth/death statistics in Heaven. I've heard stories about you. 
Ambriel also claims, "I look good in a trench coat, too. And
             we're both expendable."
(And yes, all those Cosplaying fans do look good in trench coats.)

A3CASPLAYBORD

FAN COMPLAINT: Castiel is being ignored by the writers. Cas does not have an arc.

WRITER’S RESPONSE: Cas helps but “Sam and Dean Winchester are the real heroes.”
                                                         
Castiel is EXPENDABLE. He’s not super important but he does the job.
CASTIEL: So... Why is it dark?
AMBRIEL:  Excellent question.

A4AMCASBORD

Some Fans missed the big picture and overlooked that the Darkness is the big bad this season.
Castiel’s arc is to assist with defeating the big bad. He has not been forgotten.
He is “coming” just as Amara wrote on his chest.


A5AMARBORD

After AMARA consumes AMBRIEL and her perspective, she reiterates the writer’s point:
“Oh, she really hit the spot…. She's right, you know. You are expendable... and weak.
And why God took a special interest in you, I'll never understand. My brother always did have horrible taste in men.”
Knocked low and resigned to failure, Cas grumbles, “Just do it.”  
“Blue eyes... You aren't even worth the effort. And, no offense, but you look a bit used up. Plus... I have a job for you.”


A6AMACASBORD


Amara/Writer/s
then use Castiel as a messenger and send him to hell.

But, Amara looks nauseous afterwards. Possibly the Angel Essence does not agree with her.
It certainly impaired her judgement of Castiel.
She severely underestimated our little tree topper. She might have to eat her words.


STRAWFAN: LUCIFER takes Sam on a journey through his past, pointing out various
interpretations of Sam's character and perceived flaws.

FAN COMPLAINT: Sam used to be a “hero.” Lucifer shows a younger Sam having a special moment with a young woman.
Lucifer interprets this display as being exemplar of Sam, “Bold, decisive, a solid "B" on the tongue action.”
Disregarding the tongue action, how does this moment demonstrate that Sam is bold, decisive or heroic?                      
 IT DOES NOT.

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WRITER’S RESPONSE: This added canon reinforces something.
If you look in the background you see a couple on a picnic,
and further back a man stops to interact with a woman and her dog.
These two scenes foreshadow Sam with Amelia.
Also, note the conversation between Young Sam and the young woman,
Have you ever heard of a Chupacabra?  …Okay, good.

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What this scene reinforces is that Sam has always been derailed by a pretty face and the desire to have a normal life.
It is his weakness. Sam did not act out of character by not searching for Dean.
He instead spent his time with Amelia having a “normal” idyllic life; however, briefly.
He acted within the realms of his character previously demonstrated by canon and reinforced here.
This new canon scene reemphasizes Sam’s character flaws.

A9ANSWERLUCIFERBORD

FAN COMPLAINT:
STRAWFAN LUCIFER accuses Sam of being "prissy" and unheroic and
that his guilt over abandoning Dean changed him. Lucifer said Sam's guilt caused him to
rescue Dean, rather than sealing the gates of Hell, and that Sam is incapable of sacrificing himself for the greater good again.
"Because of this, you're so overcome by guilt that you can't stand to lose Dean again, and he could never lose you.
And so instead of choosing the world, you choose each other, no matter how many innocent people die."

A9guiltysambord

WRITER’S RESPONSE: STRAWFAN/SAM (The writers’ voice) affirms,My answer is no. This isn't 'cause of Dean or the past.
This is about me having faith in my friends, having faith in my family. We will find a way. I'm ready to die.
And I'm ready to watch people I love die. But I'm not ready to be your bitch.”

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FAN COMPLAINT: Are Gabriel, Raphael and Adam/Michael dead? Are they ever coming back?

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WRITER’S RESPONSE: STRAWFAN/ LUCIFER (The writers’ voice) reveals, “But Gabriel and Raphael are dead.
God went out for a pack of smokes and never came back. And Michael
Well, let's just say prison life hasn't really agreed with Michael.
                       These days, he's usually sitting in a corner, singing show tunes and touching himself.”

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LOOPHOLE: Should the fans trust this voice? Is Lucifer telling the truth or merely trying to sway Sam
into believing the only solution is to allow Lucifer to take control of his body?
Are the writers presenting the trope of a Shrug of God or LYING CREATOR?
There is still room for the writers to reemploy these characters anytime they want to.

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STRAWFANS CROWLEY AND ROWENA discuss the lackluster characterization of Rowena.

B5CROWBORD


FAN COMPLAINT: Rowena’s character arc, dialogue and behaviour was never fully developed past an angsty, Oedipal cliché.
The writers seem to have trouble writing for and about her.
(I’m Guilty of making this complaint especially the Oedipal angst.)

STRAWFAN ROWENA: “Please, Fergus. I don't know what kind of Oedipal fifty shades
you think you're playing at, but if you think for a second...”

STRAWFAN CROWLEY:  “So, you're just gonna let the big, strong man boss you around?
Whatever happened to the super-duper awesome coven? #girlpower?


B6ROWCROWBORD

WRITER’S RESPONSE
:
Rowena finally, and heartbreakingly, reveals the reason she never loved Crowley…
add some character depth, and then kill her.

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LOOPHOLE: But, there is hope that Rowena can return. She is dead and her soul will go to hell.
Billie could reap her soul and have her reassume her meat suit
(after ironing out the neck kink) and voila, she can return.
Crowley must be inspired to help her, having realized the true bond he and his mother share.
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STRAWFAN CASTIEL:  Cas assumes a role from a fanfic ship and soothes an ill Dean.

FAN COMPLAINT Destiel shippers have been demanding more Dean/Cas time
         
WRITER’S RESPONSE: after an intense dry spell, the writers have Cas offer to take Dean’s temperature while holding up his finger
in an off colour reference to an anal probe.

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There was even strange violin music in this scene.

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But in serving this fandom sect, the writers risk alienation from the rest of the fans.

SPEAKING OF HUMOUR

The anal probe, “B rated tongue action” and “jump your bones” comments, and the double entendre “I am coming”,
were a little lame, unless you are into that kind of cheesiness.
Unfortunately, they seriously detracted from some funnier moments and some AMAZING NEW CANON and PLOT TWISTS.


SHOUT OUTS:

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C4SHOUTLUCIBORD

CHARACTER ANGST:
HUMILIATION, FEAR AND SELF LOATHING


SAM’s

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Even though Sam fought through and denied
Lucifer's accusations (unheroic, prissy, incapable of sacrifice) he was feeling
low and looking plenty beat up by Lucifer's assessment and treatment.

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DEAN’s

C7humildeanbord

Dean suffered the indignity of sickness and his overwhelming fear for his first visit to hell in long time.
Further degraded by Billie and Crowley, by having to sing the “camptown do dah” password,
he took the “nice work, Bieber” insult in stride.


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ROWENA’s

C9humilrowbord

A witch collar from the inquisition was used on Rowena.
(Yes, they did exist but in reality were used on innocent women to torture them into obedient exhibits.)
Rowena is made to “hop on one foot” and massage Crowley’s head.
Most humiliating of all, she was made to confess her reason for not loving Crowley.

D1AROWSPEECHBORD

Her unlikely and awkwardly phrased speech manages to draw sympathy and understanding in both Crowley and the audience.
Her humiliation complete, she is quickly killed. However, without the collar she could lie.
And maybe she did.
There is at least one other person capable of opening and closing the cage….Crowley.
So, with her dying breath, she protects her son.
Crowley’s humiliation is pending…


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CASTIEL’s

D3HUMILCASBORD

It was Castiel who could not hold up under the insulting abuse and appraisals of the Angels.
Suffering from low self-esteem and desperately wanting to help,
Ambriel sews the seeds in him to sacrifice himself for the good of others.
There is “nobility” in that. Amara further humiliated him by carving a message in his chest and sending him to hell.



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FORESHADOWING

D5FORESHCASBORD

D6FOREROWBORD

CINEMATOGRAPHY

MOTIF:
HOLES


Loophole

"It can't be. You finished the spell. But if he was already in another vessel..."
"Loophole..."


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D7MOTHOLEBORD


MOTIF: FACE TOUCHING

D8FACEBORD

LOTS OF GAGGING, SPITTING AND CHOKING:

D9MOTIFSPITBORD

E1CHOKEBORD


AWWWW ! SWEET SHOTS

E2SALUTEBORD


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LIGHTING

Cas lit with holy light

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Through the Fire

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Rowena lighting her candles

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The  blue and cement grey lighting and the lightning in the holding cell.

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SOUND

Awesome song choice: "Heaven Must Be Missing an Angel" by Tavares

♪ “Heaven must be missin' an angel missin’ one angel, child ‘cause you're here with me right now”♪



SPECIAL EFFECTS


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Amara leeching back the darkness


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Seamless shots of time loops

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(Love that the dog in this scene seems to be aware of the visitors from the future.)


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POINTS OF VIEW

Dean’s blurry sickness

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F7blurroad

FIGHT CHOREOGRAPHY

Such a tight location but BOOM all the shots.

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BECHDEL TEST

In 2015, Season 11, we only achieved 44%, or
4 out of 9 episodes passing this easy gender fairness Bechdel test.
This year 2016 may
be the turning point for Supernatural indicating a unquestionable determination
to pass the Bechdel test and bring in enlightened change.

Come on Supernatural! You can do it!

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BEST PERFORMANCE

The acting was stellar!! Tough choice between...


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Dean (Jensen Ackles) In addition to vomiting (thankfully, not in Baby,) 
let his fear shine through. His bravado was false and made wordlessly
transparent to the viewers.

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Congratulations, Jensen Ackles, for Best Performance!

FROM THE REARVIEW

H1REARVIEWBORD

H2REARVBORD

THANKS TO:

SUPERNATURAL WIKI

FOREVER DREAMING: TRANSCRIPT

FANDOM FOREVER (NEEDTAKEHAVE): SCREENCAPS

Supernatural Fans Online: Screencaps

The CW: promotional stills

TV TROPES.ORG: TROPES DEFINED

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawFan

SUPERNATURAL WIKIA: Raphael_implosion.gif*

Casplay photo from:The Supernatural Fox Sisters: 
“Salute to Supernatural 2015: San Francisco”

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Comments  

Jen
# Jen 2016-01-26 07:26
Interesting reveiw Wednesday I had noticed they answered some questions we had but hadn't associated it to fandom. I went back and re- watched this episode with your words in my mind, and could see everything you wrote about, For me it didn;t deminish the enjoyment of the episode, or the set up for the second half of the season.
I don't and never have seen Dean and Castiel's friendship in the way the "shippers" do. And for me it degrades their friendship and I suppose it takes many types of people to make the world go around, but I much rather they keep this idea in their own circle.
I have many a time questioned the influence of this strong fandom on the writers - and whether it is a good thing or not so good. I have asked through threads on this web site this question and got many varied answers, for me the support, love, friendship, and sense of family is incredible, and even though I have never met anyone on WFB or face book the SPN family have given me a sense of belonging and friendship but I feel this is where it should end. If a show starts writing as fan's demand it diminishes the show. Thank you for your reveiw Wednesday
Are you going to do one on light & colour and direction I love those reveiws
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2016-01-26 09:34
Quote:
Sam has always been derailed by a pretty face
No.This statement does not have any basis on the show.
Wednesday
# Wednesday 2016-01-26 13:11
Yes, he kind of does. Jessica Moore. Sarah Blake. Madison. Meg. Ruby. Amy. Bela (fantasy). Amelia.... to name a few.
But Dean, too. Their romantic interests and relationships are part of the appeal of the show.
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-01-26 15:48
Sarah: a former friend, where's the derail?

Jessica: girlfriend, He chose to go to college, again how was that a derail?

Madison: he was attracted to her, he cared for her, he wanted to try and save her. He ended up doing the "right" thing though it tore him apart. Again where is the derail?

Meg: he liked Meg at first, he had already left Dean when he met her, then when he got worried about Dean he left her in the dust. No derail. Later he was suspicious of her and found out the truth. Not derailed.

Ruby: Dean was dead and Sam was crazy with grief, she took full advantage of that! So yes that might be seen as a derail but not because she was "pretty". He was decieved. He trusted her and she let him think he could do more good than harm by the demon blood method of exorcising demons. She made him believe he could avenge Dean by killing Lilith.

Amy: a childhood friend he came to care about. He wanted to give her a chance. The debate continues about whether or not Dean should have gone behind Sam's back and killed Amy (I hated that actually) but I don't see how Sam went off the rails??

Bela: how a dream is used as an example of a derail is beyond me. They didn't trust her from day 1.

Amelia: How is that a derail? I guess it could be seen that way to the people who were pissed that Sam didn't "look". Him trying to find some happiness in his life is not a derail IMO

They both like pretty women. Dean has had his share. Are Dean's considered derails? Although Amara just might be a huge one. We'll see.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2016-01-26 16:18
...
Wednesday
# Wednesday 2016-01-26 17:11
I see that the word “derailed" is causing some opposition. Perhaps the word “derailed “is too forceful.
I do like the word “distracted.”
What I was trying to point out is that the writers are reinforcing that, due to a romantic heart, Sam GOES OFF THE TRAIL of what is expected for Hunters.
Hunters should be killing Demons, Werewolves and Kitsunes, but Sam falls in love.
Killing is not always easy for him because he sees the humanity inside some of the monsters.
He does have a “soft spot” for a pretty face. His “dreams of a normal life and relationship
cause him to make decisions that depart from HUNTER PRACTICES.
Sometimes this sidetracking of Sam’s has negative consequences; but, sometimes it’s exactly the right thing to do.
It is definitely a pattern with him. The scene in the episode reemphasizes this.
This romantic heart/dreamer aspect of Sam could be viewed as a weakness or flaw.
But, these are the very qualities that make him human and endearing to the fans.
LEAH
# LEAH 2016-01-26 18:23
Thank you for the reply Wednesday. I still think if you substitute the word distraction for every derail in my post I would still disagree. I think most of those women were not factors in his hunting decisions. Except for possibly Ruby who intentionally deceived and mislead him by taking advantage of his vulnerable state and desire to avenge his brother as a way to get what she wanted. But he stayed on his mission as HE saw it.
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-01-27 09:47
I have to agree with LEAH, I don't think Sam has been distracted by a pretty face often, if at all. Distracted - unable to concentrate because one's mind is preoccupied. Let's look at the pretty faces that have "distracted" Sam from his goals.

Jessica Moore Sam didn't see Jess and say "Wow, go to tap that, I think I'll go to college." He met her in college and at that time his goal was to graduate, go to law school, settle down and have a family. Jess was something that was part of that goal. At the time Sam didn't know about his "dark destiny". He didn't want to hunt and had no reason to think that he was incapable of escaping that life. If anyone distracted Sam at that time, it was Dean, distracting Sam AWAY from the pretty face and taking him away from his stated goal of continuing his education and settling down.

Sarah Blake She was part of a case. He used her to get information. He didn't miss clues because he took her out to dinner. He got the information they needed and Sarah helped provide the information about the child's hair being part of her doll that ended the ghost.

Madison Sam didn't sleep with her until they thought she was safe from the werewolf. He protected her and did his job. When they found out she was a werewolf, he exhausted every resource to try and find a way to return her to normal. When he couldn't, he killed her and did his job. I suppose you could say that he was distracted because he didn't find out about the super-special werewolf clans that Garth lives in, but neither did Dean. Was he distracted by a pretty face as well? Or was this information that the boys simply didn't have access to?

Meg Sam had left Dean before he met Meg to follow his goal of finding John. Meg wasn't able to distract him away from Dean.

Ruby It's easy to forget that Sam started off hanging with Ruby because she said she could help him save Dean from Hell, but that is how it got started. Saving Dean from Hell was his focus, so Ruby 1 was helping him stay on task, not distracting him. Ruby 2 came to Sam at one of the lowest points of his life. But even then, Ruby encouraged him to live a hunter's life. She gave him additional tools to keep on hunting safely and to save more people. Before she seduced/quasi-r aped Sam, Sam's grief over Dean distracted him. Ruby got him back on task. Her motives were bad, but she wasn't distracting him from hunting, quite the reverse.

Amy When they were kids Amy saved Sam's life and he let her go. She had shown herself to be non-dangerous. The next time the met, Amy gave a reason why she was killing and offered proof that she would never do it again. When in the same situation Dean let Benny walk even though he killed a fellow hunter and friend.

Bela (fantasy) Oh good Lord! It was a dream! Is Sam not allowed to sleep now? Must he renounce all links to being human? He was embarrassed when she walked in after a sex dream. Until that moment she hadn't distracted him from doing his job and his dream didn't cause him to miss something that would have clued him that she was about to steal the Colt.

Amelia Sam was already distracted before he met Amelia. He hit a DOG on the road, he was so distracted. Sam was distracted by grief over Dean and Cas and Kevin. A pretty face had nothing to do with it. Sam was out. He settled down, not because of Amelia but because he had finally stopped running and was taking care of a hurt dog. He got a job, settled down and THEN found out that Amelia was living in the motel he was working at. She wasn't the reason he stopped hunting. She came after he had made that decision.

Not one of the women that Sam was involved with stopped him from doing his job and doing it well. The times he did stop hunting the "pretty faces" came after that decision was made.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-01-27 13:15
Ruby quasi-raped Sam? Where do you get that? Sam looked pretty willing to me. Which I get, especially considering his state of mind at that time, but rape, quasi or otherwise -doesn't enter into it.

I don't think.the poster meant to use "distracted" - poor choice of word perhaps?
percysowner
# percysowner 2016-01-27 14:47
You're right, I shouldn't have pussy-footed around. Ruby raped Sam. One of the definitions of rape is having sex with someone who is so impaired they can not legitimately consent. This is not often prosecuted and there are people who refuse to believe it, but yes Sam was drunk and not capable of consenting to sex. I know, I know MEN aren't supposed to get that consideration and he seemed to enjoy it, but that doesn't remove the fact that legally and morally he was not capable of real consent. If a guy found a girl in that state and she said no the way Sam did and he kept pushing even after being refused, it would be rape. It's the same if the person is male.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2016-01-27 19:46
I don't buy that Ruby raped Sam. She didn't hold him down or force him. He was perfectly capable of saying no. He did it because he wanted to. Because he was attracted to her, or because in his grief he just needed a connection to another or both. Not rape but manipulation. She came onto him, overcame his objection of it being wrong to have sex with a demon by convincing him that only she occupied the vessel. If Sam was stupid enough to give in to her persuasion that's on him. Not only that but Sam continued to engage in the relationship after that. I sincerely doubt he was inebriated every time.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2016-01-27 21:11
I could say something really inappropriate here but I will refrain. Just suffice it to say that was the hottest scene in the entire run of the show. Angry, desperate, seductive sex.

But seriously, Sam was drunk and consumed with unimaginable grief. Ruby had been sent on her mission by Lilith to set Sam on his path. I think she waited until he was at his lowest point before she came on to him. Rape is a strong word but in this case I think Ruby raped Sam in every possible way. She had to take control of him in any way she could. Sam was so desperate to save Dean if Lucifer himself had shown up at that point and offered a way to get Dean out of Hell Sam would have said yes in a heartbeat. Sam was no match for Heavens plan for him, at least not at that point. He didn't have Dean there making sure he made the right choices. He had angels and demons making sure he made the wrong ones. Sam never had a chance.

Now what came later after Dean was saved is a different story. Those were Sam's choices and he knew that he was making the wrong ones. He was too far gone though by then.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-26 18:43
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree, because you imply that Sam is merciful to some of monsters because of their pretty face. It simply is not true. He is merciful to monsters if he sees that they are not evil, because his inner conviction that they shoul erase evil not any supernatural things, because they are also persons and, if they are not evil deserve to live. As for Amy he was ready to kill her, knowing that she was his child friend and changed his mind because he believed her basing on his knowledge of who she really was, basing on his knowledge of her personality.
spnlit
# spnlit 2016-01-26 19:05
I agree with your statement that Sam does have a romantic kind heart and he is seriously sidetracked off the hunter path to pursue normal life or infuse normal life into the supernatural. This quality does make him depart from the hunter's life. This is not a criticism, it is what makes Sam- well, Sam. Before you all jump down my throat, it does not mean that I am saying Sam is not a good hunter, or that he is not a hero, or that he does not love Dean. Sam always wanted and yearned for the normal life growing up. He talked to his English teacher about getting out of the family business, his relationship with Amy was about trying to be normal, his make believe friend talked to him about running away, he did in fact run away when he was a kid - ate pizza and had a dog; he chose to hang out with a nerdy girl so to have a normal Thanksgiving; he left and went to college, wanted to be a lawyer and marry Jess, saw humanity (normal life) in supernatural creatures and wanted to cut them slack or save them, did not look for Dean (you all could argue the reason for that decision) but left alone in the world... he chose the girl, dog and organic fruit. And yes, he even chose to have a sexual and personal relationship with a demon, when we first met new Ruby he was having pretty normal date night with her... sex and pizza.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-26 19:30
And his strive for a normal life was because he always felt unwillingness to kill, and did that only when it was absolutely necessary You may rewatch Bloodthirst, it was cleary shown here for the first time it it was reiterated more than once for the whole show. Moreover, it was strongly underlined again in the whole first half of season 11. And in 7.03 (The Girl Next Door) we were shown one of the reason, there he understood that not all "monsters" are evil. Another reason was that he always felt himself a freak, because he always felt a demon blood inside himself (The Great Escapist), hence his stirve to be normal. A natural desire, especially for a child. But the main reason is because he is just merciful by nature, always ready to forgive. For some people it may seem "new rules", but if to remember the previous seasons it was absolutely logical and expected. So we should just decide what is to be a hero: Is it about killing, or is it about saving?
spnlit
# spnlit 2016-01-26 21:03
Quote:
So we should just decide what is to be a hero: Is it about killing, or is it about saving?
I think each viewer MAY choose to answer that question for themselves along with all the other questions this show raises. For me its not an OR question. It is both and whole lot more. That is part of the exploration of the entire show. And part of the differences, sameness, and uniqueness of each brother.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-27 05:26
Quote:
It is both and whole lot more. That is part of the exploration of the entire show. And part of the differences, sameness, and uniqueness of each brother.
Fair enough. But what I wanted to add about your previous comment, it's your remark about Ruby. You seem to imply saying Quote:
And yes, he even chose to have a sexual and personal relationship with a demon, when we first met new Ruby he was having pretty normal date night with her... sex and pizza.
that Sam had a relationship with Ruby because of her pretty face, not because she offered him a purpose in his life when he was broken by his guilt because Dean had sold his soul. I wonder if you seriously think that her prety face had anything with his decision? She offered him a purpose, something to live for, and that was at first the revenge, then she played on his strive to save people. It was clearly shown in 4.01 and reiterated during the whole 4th season:
Quote:
Quote:

SAM I don't know if what I'm doing is right. Hell, I don't even know if I trust you.
RUBY Thanks.
SAM But what I do know is that I'm saving people. And stopping demons. And that feels good. I want to keep going.
04.01
4.03 -
???: I'm pulling demons out of innocent people.
DEAN Use the knife!
SAM The knife kills the victim! What I do, most of them survive! Look, I've saved more people in the last five months than we save in a year.
Quote:
RUBY It's simple. Lucifer rises, the apocalypse starts. You think that you have demons on your hands now? People are gonna die, Sam. Oceans of people. So you just let me know when you're ready.
How many times should some idea be repeated in the show for viewers to pay attention to?
Even more do I object, when you put Ruby and Amelia as th same decisions when in fact they were opposite. In the case with Ruby he chose to fight the war, in the case with Amelia he chose a normal life. In case with Ruby he broke his promise to Dean "not to use his psychic stuff", in case with Amelia he kept his promise to Dean, but according to your opinion in both cases he was wrong. I'm sorry, but you can't have that both ways. And the last but not the least. You are writing that
Quote:
but left alone in the world... he chose the girl, dog and organic fruit
but when Dean was left alone he stopped hunting as well chosing Lisa and Ben, but you seem not to have any problems with that. One must think that during that year with Lisa and Ben people suddenly stopped dying from supernatural beings. Oh, wait, It was a period of extremely high activity of monsters...But that was Dean... and people always seem to apply quite different standards when it's about Dean.
spnlit
# spnlit 2016-01-27 12:21
It seems to me you are reading a whole lot into my comment that does not exist or you do not understand what I stated. All I said was this: Quote:
Sam does have a romantic kind heart and he is seriously sidetracked off the hunter path to pursue normal life or infuse normal life into the supernatural
Did not say or imply Sam had a relationship with Ruby because she had a pretty face.
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but according to your opinion in both cases he was wrong. I'm sorry, but you can't have that both ways.

I did not state any such opinion and my post does not even touch on rightness or wrongness. Both are simply examples of Sam pursuing normal life or trying to make the supernatural partly normal.
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but when Dean was left alone he stopped hunting as well, but you seem not to have any problems with that... and people always seem to apply quite different standards when it's about Dean.
Again, just read my post again. It has nothing to do with my thoughts on Dean. Also, I am not engaging in your Dean vs. Sam debate.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-27 14:21
Quote:
I did not state any such opinion and my post does not even touch on rightness or wrongness. Both are simply examples of Sam pursuing normal life or trying to make the supernatural partly normal.

I don't think that his cooperation with Ruby can be in any way called a pursuing a normal life, as the only thing he wanted was:
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SAM I've got demon blood in me, Dean! This disease pumping through my veins, and I can't ever rip it out or scrub it clean! I'm a whole new level of freak! And I'm just trying to take this - this curse... and make something good out of it. Because I have to.
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It has nothing to do with my thoughts on Dean
Exactly, but it has a lot to do with kicking Sam for the same that Dean had done. By the way, I've got no problems with both cases and don't judge both of them. Both stopped hunting and both had all the rights to do so.
spnlit
# spnlit 2016-01-30 14:12
Sorry not going to engage you in your Sam vs. Dean issue. I was not kicking Sam for anything. With the Ruby relationship, the part I saw as infusing normal life was that he had a sexual relationship with her and he confided in her and trusted her. When Dean and Bobby found Sam to tell him Dean was sprung from hell, Sam and Ruby were having what I think was a date night - the normal life scene- They were partially undressed- doing something physical, playing music and ordering pizza- hanging out.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-01-26 20:05
Absolutely disagree with this statement as well, "derailed" or "distracted" both. You make it sound like Sam is shallow, trailing along after any pretty face that crosses his path, that he makes bad decisions based on their prettiness and his interest in them, that his connection to these women has no depth. Sam's connection to the women on this show have largely been completely sincere with the exception of a very small few (and the women he slept with while soulless, which could be considered a distraction); I'd put Dr. Cara and the waitress in the "distraction" group but absolutely none of the others you've mentioned. When you feel real, compelling emotions for someone, that's hardly a derailment or a distraction or wrong in any way. Sam feels deeply for these people, how can that be considered a distraction?
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2016-01-27 08:04
The thing is for me pursuing someone romantically is not derailment.But the thing is you said that he was always derailed by a pretty face..that itself..i.e the criteria for his derailment is a pretty face is untrue in all the situations you mentioned.Even in the pic since I do not know what he was talking with attendent for ...maybe it was simple sweettalk and that is one of the first times I remember him doing that...and that is why I have a problem with "always" and "pretty face".
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2016-01-27 08:59
You know, I think I'm in the minority, but I did not think "Baby" was the best episode. It just wasn't organic. Talk about fan tropes. Dean driving the whole time, them calling each other "Jerk" and "Bitch" after I can't remember how many seasons, Sam being the one to have a random hook up in the car and then missing that his brother is being beaten on because he's being flirted with? That sounds more like Dean to me. Supposedly the episode was to show what happens in between hunts from the car's POV, but somehow became fan service. It was trying way too hard to show us the brothers being "brotherly" after the last few seasons of division, but I personally thought "Thin Lizzie" was much better.

The reason I commented is because you said it was one of the first times you remember Sam doing that. That's because in 11 years of the show, not counting Soulless who we know flirted with everyone who caught his eye and Doctor Cara when he was on DB, he's never done that. Heck, remember that very pretty girl in the LARPING episode who invited him to her tent? Yes, it was right after Amelia, but still. Sam is not a random hook up kind of guy.
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2016-01-26 10:12
I agree with a lot but I don't agree that sam's flaw was distraction by a pretty face and a desire for a normal life. That's sam being a human being, which sometimes it's forgotten he actually is. One scene doesn't erase sam's entire past or why he had a desire and still kind of does for both he and dean to have some kind of normal in their life, to experience it at least once, which they both did and neither one of them found the happiness in it that they deserved ...

it's not so black and white. As for distraction by a pretty face, I think it's safe to say both boys have been guilty of that, they are men after all...and human beings as well....I think Sam and Dean share the same basic flaw and it's this flaw that is their weakness at times...it's their own perception of their own self loathing which often leads to guilt. Lucifer had Sam thinking his moment of weakness came, not by keeping a promise, but by running away from hunting and hiding in a fantasy world that included a woman sam never truly loved and a dog. Sam as he admitted, imploded and ran....he didn't have the strength at the time to stay in the life that killed his family, and he didn't have the strength anymore to care about the rest of the world. At the time of his grief, until he hit the dog, sam seemed to stop living and caring about anything. The truth of the matter is, hitting that dog saved sam's life. Sam shifting his focus to start caring again, to start helping again, as is why he chose a broken Amelia, who had lots of similarities to dean. In that time he chose to run, he found the strength to get through and even before sam knew dean was alive, he left Amelia and went back to the cabin. We saw Sam coming to terms with needing to stop running during his conversation with Amelia's father....even before the call came in about dear dead don's magical reappearance. Amelia's lost husband returned and the bond they shared was no longer there...Sam knew it was time to get back to his real life...or at the very most he couldn't share a life with a woman he didn't truly love because love was never what brought them together.

If Lucifer tried to convince Sam that his greatest weakness was in leaving the hunting life and running from it, I disagree with Lucifer's assessment and I think Sam might've too. Though Sam was broken, he found a way to survive. He found the strength to live again and when the time came, he left the life of normal and headed back to the cabin. Finding a way to survive a devastating loss is possibly one of the strongest things a person can do....and Dean did the same thing in order to find a way to keep going...to survive...as well.

The flaw here in Sam is his own perception of self loathing and guilt. He did nothing wrong in believing his brother died. He did nothing wrong in keeping a promise they made. He did nothing wrong when he broke and ran away from the life that killed everyone...mom, dad, jess, dean, bobby, ellen, jo, ash, etc....he did nothing wrong in finding a way to survive. What he did do wrong was allow himself to feel guilty over all of it....to believe that he was a failure to his brother. To allow his self loathing to take over and fall victim to misperception. To not fight back when Dean constantly rags on him about not looking. He doesn't give his brother a beat down when dean doesn't get that sam was keeping a promise to his brother.....tha t sam doesn't tell dean himself that he imploded and ran...that it was hell, that all he wanted to do was look for a way to bring him back but they made a damn promise and that's what sam believed dean wanted...

Sam's flaw was allowing his low opinion of himself take the beating he felt he deserved and for believing that his brother saw him as a failure. (which was never the case and dean's issues were not about sam they were about him...but then that goes back to dean's flaw...same as sam's ..self loathing....onl y it's worn differently on ea. of them...but the result is always the same....misperc eption and the false belief that they are a failure to the other)

If the stroll down memory lane did anything...it was having Sam recognize this guilt that stems from how he sees himself and not how his brother actually sees him. Showing Sam the moment with Amelia seemed to have the opposite effect on Sam....the way I saw it, it seemed to clarify once and for all that his time with Amelia wasn't about weakness...it was a sign of strength... sam found a way to survive, because of his love for his brother...somet imes one just needs a little time to regroup...but never did sam give up....and that's not weak. ;)
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-26 10:50
Quote:
The flaw here in Sam is his own perception of self loathing and guilt. He did nothing wrong in believing his brother died. He did nothing wrong in keeping a promise they made. He did nothing wrong when he broke and ran away from the life that killed everyone...mom, dad, jess, dean, bobby, ellen, jo, ash, etc....he did nothing wrong in finding a way to survive. What he did do wrong was allow himself to feel guilty over all of it....to believe that he was a failure to his brother. To allow his self loathing to take over and fall victim to misperception. To not fight back when Dean constantly rags on him about not looking. He doesn't give his brother a beat down when dean doesn't get that sam was keeping a promise to his brother.....that sam doesn't tell dean himself that he imploded and ran...that it was hell, that all he wanted to do was look for a way to bring him back but they made a damn promise and that's what sam believed dean wanted...
sugarhi15, can't agree more. That's exactly how I see it and it exactly how it was shown in the last episode. It might have been open to interpretation before this episode, but this episode pretty much closed the discussion.
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2016-01-26 10:55
I agree 100%. You articulated exactly what those who see Sam's value gleaned from watching this episode. And although it appears that the show's narrative is finally supporting our belief, it hasn't in the past and I think that is why so many people who watch see Dean's flaws as strong and heroic and Sam's as weak and selfish. It irritates me to no end that the show has repeatedly thrown Sam under the bus and skimmed over some of Dean's actions. I don't hate Dean, and I concur that Dean projects his self loathing and fear of being alone onto the nearest person, usually Sam which is why he sometimes treats him the way he does . And I understand that they are two very different people in that Sam will recognize and apologize whereas Dean thinks that if he turns on big brother mode and tries with actions to show his attitude has changed, it's all okay. Sam accepts that, but I personally would like to hear it come out of his mouth.

I also don't get the "derailed by a pretty face" comment. He was a teenager who was just told by a pretty girl that he is cute and smart. Ummmmm.....tell what heterosexual boy who is told that is not going to be "derailed". The fact that Sam had two women in his life that he wanted to have an actual normal life with in 33 years as being "derailed" , is also something the show implies, but isn't true. Just because Dean changes his tune every other season about it doesn't make it gospel. Throughout the series, Dean has said, he's tired and wanted to out, in WIAWNSB he dreamed of Sam marrying Jessica, but then in at the end of season 3 it was, "keep hunting and remember what Dad and I taught you". Season 6, he had his own normal life even though he wasn't completely happy, but we know he dreamed of it because of the dream root in season 5. In season 6, he implied that he would be okay with Sam staying in the alternate world, married to Ruby and living the rich life. Apparently off screen, they had some sort of agreement in season 7 that they wouldn't try and bring each other back, but we all saw the train wreck of season 8 and PSTD Dean, ragging on Sam about "hitting a dog" until he was willing to die by the end just so he didn't disappoint him which has followed Sam right up until the last episode, where it is again inferred that everything that has happened in the last three seasons was because Sam was weak and guilty because he gave up in Season 8. Allowing Sam to actually refute that to Lucifer is pretty much the first time in three seasons that the show has supported Sam's side of things.

And looking at the article and Fan tropes, I'm wondering if the fact that we're seeing Sam actually being supported in the narrative this year is something that was brought up to Jeremy Carver and the writers. Maybe by Jared himself or someone who has been reading online. It's such a turn around from pretty much the whole show since season 4, and so obvious this year.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2016-01-26 20:43
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And looking at the article and Fan tropes, I'm wondering if the fact that we're seeing Sam actually being supported in the narrative this year is something that was brought up to Jeremy Carver and the writers. Maybe by Jared himself or someone who has been reading online. It's such a turn around from pretty much the whole show since season 4, and so obvious this year.
God.....I've wondered about that too!! So, so much. There has DEFINITELY been a change this year in the writers approach to Sam. I am not sure what exactly has changed and, quite frankly, I am dying to know. I suspect it has something to do with Bob Singer stepping down, but hate to think that the grandfather of the show was so biased against Sam as a character that his stepping down has produced such a complete turn-around in how he's being approached this year. Whatever the cause I am so completely grateful for it..... that and the departure of Adam "I fantasize about being Dean Winchester" Glass. Good riddance to a mediocre writer who's fantasy self insertion, lopsided favoritism and his complete disinterest in Sam as a character made his episodes almost unwatchable, well for me at any rate. Now if we could only get rid of a certain duo........;)
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2016-01-27 08:40
I agree with every word you wrote. Could not have said it better. Thank you.

Actually, I'd venture so far as to say Dean is more likely to be distracted by a pretty face than Sam. After all, he's the one who has one-night stands whereas Sam usually doesn't.
Wednesday
# Wednesday 2016-01-26 13:08
Hey everyone, Thanks for reading!
No question the writer/s were listening to and communicating to the fans about complaints.
But, I confess to not fully understanding some of the fandom complaints and/or the writer responses.
Although the meta voices are definitely trying to say something,
one has to be totally up on all the various fandom opinions and contentious issues to get the messages.
I am kind of still kind of sketchy on some of the issues especially with Sam, but I tried my best to nail down the meaning.
I am enjoying alternative explanations from you. It's certainly open to interpretation.
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2016-01-26 16:20
Maybe I don't quite know what is meant by derail. I would think that meant that Sam happened upon a pretty girl and abandoned Dean or an innocent victim to run off and have a tryst. I don't think Sam ever did that did he? He didn't run off for Jessica (college), Sarah (needed info on a case that turned into one kiss. Remember the dinner date was to gain information), Meg (happened upon her on the road on the way to find John, never lost focus on that mission until Dean needed him), Ruby (manipulated Sam into thinking he could save Dean-mission save Dean), Bela (???), Amelia (stumbled upon her after losing everything and everyone he ever loved, Dean was dead as far as he knew-incredibly unhappy union), Piper (much needed), the girl in the Gas n' Sip (needed old pennies unaware that Dean was in danger from passed out soccer mom). Maybe momentarily distracted? I.E. a much needed break from the horrors of their lives? Ok I can buy that.
disgruntled viewer
# disgruntled viewer 2016-01-26 16:51
Sorry, Wednesday, but I'm going to disagree with you. Haven't noticed humiliation, fear or self-loathing in Sam here. This episode was about Sam's self-acceptance , his faith in himself, his family and his friends and his absence of fear. Haven't noticed him feeling low either.
Sam's being "derailed" by a pretty face is Dean's opinion, not what was shown in the show. Dean thought he will "succumb to a fiery demonic whatsoever" , that Sam will say "yes" to Lucifer because of some "demon chick" and thought that Sam "changed him for a girl", though viewers know that it was not true, because the facts shown were opposite. It seems to me taking Dean's opinion for the fact and building a theory on the opinion as on the fact.
spnlit
# spnlit 2016-01-26 19:43
Wednesday, thanks for the article. I enjoy your view of the episode because you take in consideration the entire production, acting, script, production, lighting, colors, camera angle etc. You look at it all from various different perspectives and point of views. Yes,we certainly do not always agree but it is certainly interesting. I saw a lot of sex in this episode and maybe it was just pandering to the masses. Sex: Oedipal Fifty Shades- desire for your mother and S&M. Michael touching himself in a corner- insanity infused masturbation. B rated tongue action- normal teenage kissing and whatever else. Brother has terrible taste in men- gay sexuality in general. Jump your bones- sex. I am coming - orgasm. And of course the Castiel's desire to play doctor and take Dean's temp as you already pointed out. Do you have any other ideas why so much sex? Also do you think it is meaningful in any way that Amara made a comment about Castiel's eyes.... Blue eyes. Maybe she was just disappointed they were not those green eyes!
Jen
# Jen 2016-01-27 05:59
WOW lots to digest in all these comments. On the not so serious side ? I'm just glad (hopefully) that no one ever says and ------"Sam hit a dog" everytime that came up I screamed. It was a totally unnecessary catch phrase. Done. over. no more. !!!!!!
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2016-01-27 08:12
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Sam hit a dog
If the show was based on hindu mythology I would have thought it was yama. Your text to link ("https://en.wi kipedia.org/wik i/Yudhishthira# Retirement_and_ Ascent_to_Heave n") in the link if you go to subheading Retirement and Ascent to Heaven ...you will see that the a hindu god Yama came in the form of a dog.
PSG
# PSG 2016-01-28 13:29
Hey Wednesday. Your reviews are must read internet for me because you often see something I missed. We tend to agree on the trees but maybe not so much the forest. I remain convinced that Amara isn't really evil. She was made into a bad thing by misogyny and her treatment by men. Rowena is a mirror for her of course. It's a,feminist season. I am also convinced we will find out God effectively raped her in order to create and then dumped her just like Rowena. Not sex of course but whatever passes for sex amongst supreme deities.

I thought Baby was an excellent example of pandering to fan groups,as well.

Honestly, I thought Dean had absolute control over any fear. He effectively wE not afraid of Lucifer and,Lucifer knew it which was why he didn't make a play for Dean.

Did you notice the lit Cage motif Dean wa standing on at the Bunker. Foreshadowing for Michael making an appearance perhaps. I doubt that he is a,drooling mess.