"Form and Void", written by Andrew Dabb, begins where the season premiere left off.
A BTD (remember those Black Throat Diseased) is limping through abandoned Superior when Sam comes upon him and captures the guy while being very witty.

Dean has escorted Jenna and Damien-Female-Child Amara to Grandma’s house, which is a screwed up beginning of a fairy tale, let’s be honest. Grandma takes the baby and is all grandmother cooing at it and when she leaves the room, innocent baby Damien shows creepy signs of kinetic power. When we return to Sam he’s taking medicine and looking really BTDish. BTD and Sam talk and apparently BTD watched Season 5 and wants Sam’s pudding. BTD explains that the disease is fast or slow but it all ends in psychosis and death. Shades of Croatoan emerge when the guy asks to be killed.

Dean tries calling Cas but Red Eyed Rabid Cas is chained up and being tortured by sharp dressed angels. They have questions. Cas has anger. Back at Grandma’s, Amara – Damiena spells out her hunger with blocks that are embedded in the wall by her kinetic powers. Jenna and Grandma are worried. Grandma tells her that the baby has the devil in her, so Jenna calls Dean who heads back. He calls Sam, who has yet to tell Dean he’s infected.

Cas is getting tortured and the angels are really mad that Cas keeps choosing the Winchesters over heaven. This is divine jealousy. Angel seems like he’s gonna kill Cas but instead just keeps torturing him. Sam, who is now with a dead BTD, is researching and he hears a beautiful voice singing “O Death.” He goes to investigate and finds a beautiful woman. The woman is a reaper and she tells him that she’s not happy to be with someone who gutted her boss. She is there to deliver a message. She tells him that “it’s over.” There will be no coming back for the Winchesters so when they die, the reapers will toss them out into the empty from where nothing comes back. She senses that he’s dying and that is unclean in the biblical sense. She leaves him with a promise to see him soon and that her name is Billie.

During Angel SVU interrogation scene, the angels are stopped by Hannah Man. Hannah Man ejects them from the interrogation and warns Castiel that something horrible has happened.

Sam is checking the progress of his BTD and decides to make a trip to the hospital chapel. There he prays to God and says that this is all his fault. He says he’s come to peace with his death and begs for Dean’s life. He doesn’t want God to clean up his mess but he is asking God for help, for hope, for a sign. After Sam leaves the chapel he is struck with a vision, seems of hell, and yells for what it means.

Back at Grandma’s Jenna tells Dean that a priest has been called for exorcism. When Dean walks in, Crowley greets him with “Hello, Son.”

Dean and Crowley have a polite showdown while Hannah frees Castiel.

Hannah can’t heal Castiel. As we cut back to Father Crowley and Dean, Crowley says he’s working a case. Castiel says that the magic is cutting deeper and Hannah says Heaven alarms are going off. Castiel says they are for the darkness. As we see Jenna enter the nursery, we hear Castiel tell of the Darkness. Jenna goes to fix the baby and Hannah demands to know where the Darkness is and demands to know where Sam and Dean are.

Castiel suspects Hannah is bad while Crowley and Dean loiter outside Grandma’s house discussing the baby.

Jenna hovers over the baby and the Grandmother suspects something is up.

Castiel calls Hannah’s bluff and feels betrayed. Hannah says that the friendship ended with Metatron’s escape and that the angels hate him. Castiel refuses to give up Sam and Dean. The angels pull out a contraption so they can hack Castiel’s brain.

Back at Grandma’s, Jenna kills Grandma by slicing her throat. Back in the hacker cave, the angels are pulling a Naomi when Hannah tries to stop them. Castiel goes crazy physical and attacks the angels. Psoriasis Angel kills Hannah and Castiel fights back and kills him.

When we go back to Sam, he’s struggling with a kind of dementia. He remembers Billie’s words about being biblically unclean and googles a cure. He comes up with Holy Oil. He lights the holy oil on a swab and holds it to his neck. The holy fire burns away the disease.

Dean goes looking for Killer Jenna and Crowley chastises Dean for alerting the press to their presence. They go into the nursery and find the baby crying. Dean finds the Mark of Cain on the baby. Crowley tells Dean he’s very maternal since the baby likes him.

Sam pied pipers the town to him with “Sugar Shack.” He leads them into the chapel where he puts them into a ring of holy fire. The fire burns the disease away from them. They gather to heal the others in town.

Dean and Crowley approach a room where Jenna is throwing religious figures on the floor. Angel figures, to be certain. Crowley notes that Jenna doesn’t have a soul. Apparently Amara eats souls. In the nursery, Amara grows into a small child. Creepy Little Amara gets dressed and leaves while Dean fights Jenna, who Crowley kills. Dean tells Crowley that Amara is the Darkness. Crowley says that Dean looked at the baby and he knows that Dean can’t kill the child. Crowley wants Amara and he tells Dean that he is not Sam and Dean’s “bloody sidekick.” Dean pegs Crowley to the wall and goes after Amara, who is gone. Crowley is gone too, when Dean goes back.

Sam and Dean return to the bunker to find an ill Cas begging for help. Crowley finds Amara and offers a vanful of children to her as candy.

Questions to Ponder:

1. Do you think the BTD will return or is it isolated to Superior? What was its purpose?

2. So we know Amara eats souls, will she eat the Winchesters?

3. What is Dean’s relationship to her?

4. Why do the angels hate Castiel?

5. What is Crowley’s end game?

6. What did you think of Billie and her prediction? Also, wasn't her voice simply beautiful and haunting? I loved that sequence so much. 

Leave your thoughts, questions, reactions, and other emotional things here.

 

 

Comments  

MTgin
# MTgin 2015-10-14 23:20
"Hannah Man"! (That will continue to stick with me...thanks!) :)
1. BTD...isolated, though may come up later. Purpose was to put Sam at risk of death in order to introduce Billie (whom is fantastic, btw), and to help us understand that the Darkness, though pre-biblical, may be addressed with biblical knowledge. Either that or really good oldies.
2. Doubtful Amara will dine on the Winchester souls...well, not Dean's for sure...and Sam's may be seen as leftovers??
3. Dean's relationship with Amara will, probably, be the line of tension that will run throughout the season...or part of it, anyway. Will he? or won't he? CAN he? or Can he, literally, NOT kill her?
4. Angel hate...seems an oxymoron...but we've seen lots of it in seasons past. They are dicks...do they NEED a reason to hate?
5. Crowley's end game. Demon. Crowley wins...that's always been his end game.
6. Billie's prediction...ag ain, that tension to weave throughout the season. One or both of the Winchester banned to the "big empty"...perhap s they could manage if only the soundtrack was all sung by Lisa Berry!

The Darkness...Amar a...creeps me out (Maybe not the extent that Nightsky got wacked), but she/it could make from some interesting story lines....especi ally if there ARE some biblical answers to some difficult situations. I hate to see Dean suffer through the conundrum which he will, no doubt, face...but I have faith (see what I did there!?) in him and Sam. It's gonna be a wild ride...I just hope the boys confide their struggles to one another.

These are just ramblings....re ading all the input that comes from y'all and all the other contributors always make me feel so shallow, and that I missed some MAJOR points. Can't wait to read more!
sylvia37
# sylvia37 2015-10-14 23:23
I really enjoyed that episode right up until the end. I guess the apology ship has sailed. They're not even going to talk about anything. Dean looked at the mess in the bunker and instead of his murder spree, he thinks they need a maid. Okay.

1. Not sure about this. It looks like it was isolated and affected people in the path of the cloud? No clue.

2. She won't eat Dean's probably, but Sam is likely fair game. Maybe she won't because Dean wont want her to.

3. He was keeping her at bay with the mark and now she's free. She was the genie in the bottle and he's Aladdin.

4.Um....because he keeps Fing things up in heaven? That's my first guess.

5.Crowley wants Amara's power, I'm guessing. It was good to see the King being the King again.

6.I really liked the actress playing Billie. Hope we'll be seeing more of her. I'm not too happy that Sam was told he would not get his heaven, but I doubt he cares much at this point.

Edited to add, I love how when everyone else on earth is soulless, they like to kill people and when Sam is soulless, he just likes sex and gets more sassy. You go Sam.
Also, Dean should have stabbed Crowley. It was stupid that he didn't. It was so obvious and I felt bad for Jensen trying to make that seem reasonable when it wasn't. I know Mark wasn't going to die, but why have that scene if he wasn't going to kill him. And finally, I thought the bunker was warded against angels???? Right??? Of course, the Stynes got through so......my head hurts.

Overall, I liked the episode. I love smart, resourceful Sam. He saved himself and he saved everyone else. I wish he felt like he deserves a life as much as Dean. And I hope they talked about what happened off screen. What I really wish was that they had talked about it on screen, but it appears that Winchester talk time is not going to happen.
Grace232
# Grace232 2015-10-15 09:42
I dont believe the bunker was ever warded against angels. Cas has been there many times and never had a problem. I think it was warded against evil. also, the Stynes, while they gave themselves organ and tissue transplants, were still people, so they could get in too. At least that is what I thought at the time. I love your point about how Sam reacts differently to soullessness. On that same line, Dean reacted differently to being a demon.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-14 23:27
Welp, I called it with the Holy oil marshmallows- I mean cotton swabs. It would've been so much better if he'd used those fluffy little pillows of yumminess! So Sam got the sign he prayed for in hindsight. I get the purification... but that cure was found awfully fast. Apparently more than a few people were thinking Sam just thought to Google it himself and boom there it was. Wasn't the voice telling him NOT TO do it? Maybe it's just a temporary cure and he made things worse for himself? That was confusing, I'm not sure if I heard it correctly. And not to nit pick but how much Holy oil is in that jug? You know, rare Holy oil. What did they find an untapped Holy oil well somewhere? Loved how we got to see smart Sam in several different situations.

Overall I liked the ep on first view. A lot. Creepy Amara is creepy. Loved the bits between Crowley and Dean. Dean pinning him like a bug. I would have knifed Crowley first right there and then gone to kill Amara - was that hesitation there because of the weird relationship they have or because Dean was trying to take care of the greater threat figuring Crowley wasn't going anywhere and he could come back and finish the job. Stupid move Deano. I liked evil Crowley threatening Amara and Dean going all protective. Was that after Dean realized she was The Darkness? I wonder if Crowley would have been able to kill Dean as he said he was going to. I loved the blocks. Wicked creepy. Poor Jenna, we hardly knew ya! Cept for the part where you lost your virginity and that Blue House was pissed and female... Amara is a soul eater. For everyone who thinks Amara may not be bad, how is that a good thing?

Crowley and his van! Come here little soul sucking girl!!! Interesting.

Cas = angels = torture. Wing(less) dicks. I wish they'd step away from the boring predictable angels and get some strong personalities in. Zach, Gabe, Michael, Uriel... PLEASE!!!! If you are going to insist on sticking us with angels, at least MAKE THEM INTERESTING. The same with demons. They are about as scary as the dust bunnies under my couch. Let's see some heat. some threat, like the demon that Sam and Dean tortured for information on who held his contract that told Dean to go ahead and send him back, that he knew of many demons that wanted a meet and greet with Dean Winchester. He was happily evil. Sinister acting. Or Balthazar, hedonistic, powerful, snarky. Sigh. Anyway, glad Cas is off the torture train and back in the bunker. Here's a question... Cas is under a beast spell - how did he get into the bunker that is warded against all- ah, forget it. I think Sam and Dean leave the key under the mat. With an arrow pointing to it...
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 01:36
Quote:
Amara is a soul eater. For everyone who thinks Amara may not be bad, how is that a good thing?
Hey, she'll give them back! I was was of the ones who thought she might not be evil. She might in fact not be evil so much as misguided. She just needs a firm hand. Maybe uncle Dean. I am kidding.:D I have no idea where this is headed.
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-15 13:27
Quote:
I get the purification... but that cure was found awfully fast. Apparently more than a few people were thinking Sam just thought to Google it himself and boom there it was. Wasn't the voice telling him NOT TO do it? Maybe it's just a temporary cure and he made things worse for himself? That was confusing, I'm not sure if I heard it correctly. And not to nit pick but how much Holy oil is in that jug? You know, rare Holy oil. What did they find an untapped Holy oil well somewhere? Loved how we got to see smart Sam in several different situations.
I was still feeling really bummed about the letdown of Veiny Sam. I feel better now that I have something to discuss about.

Couldn't agree more on the cure being found so quickly. I remember sitting there watching it with a look of disbelief on my face and thought "That's it?". What a letdown to hyping the infection up so much in those promos.

Correct if I'm wrong but did I hear that voice as Sam's? Regardless maybe it was his demon blood (I wish) or the Darkness (i.e the infection).

Hmm a temporary cure. No, unfortunately I doubt it. Holy oil makes perfect sense for a cure. Wonder if it works on demons? Anyway we could say its only temporary on Sam because of his demon blood. Hint: The show wont go that way. Don't mind me, just trying not to hype myself up for another disappointment.

Convenient isn't it how he had holy oil? *sigh* How about Dean had it and had to apply it to Sam who started going crazy?
E
# E 2015-10-15 13:51
I don't think it was 'convenient' that Sam had the holy oil. They made a point of showing Dean considering all of the weapons and loading up for a broad range of problems as they weren't sure what they were going to find. They quite deliberately showed him selecting the holy oil. And when Sam stayed behind of course dean was going to leave all that behind to give Sam the best chance he had to defend himself, Dean had the car and the rest of the weapons. Made perfect sense to me and tracked logically.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 14:31
I agree with that E. They always carry all manner of potential weapons in the Impala at all times. They had to make a point of Dean pulling it out so people didn't cry foul that it was in the bag. Although my antennas went up when I saw that and figured the oil will come in play somehow. There does seem to be a never ending supply of rare holy oil. :)
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-15 16:05
I guess. I was just so disappointed it was cured up so easily. I thought it would be a bigger deal and last longer. That reminds me of Demon Dean, ha. :P Bah, at least that lasted for more than one episode.

Now one has to wonder what they'll fill up the rest of the season with now that the infections are not a problem anymore. Cage clues, appearances of Amara, and some visions that I do hope wont finish next episode! Please don't disappoint me again SPN. I need a Sam season :< *groans*
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 16:49
Well... it WAS two episodes of veiny Sam, not just one. :pI feel ya though. But I think that the veiny thing was only a signal that TheD had been released and it's going to be Sam's visions that are his real storyline. I hope the BTD comes back into play at a later date too though. It IS contagious after all, so it's not unreasonable to assume that it's spreading. I don't supposed Sam will catch it again though. Sorry YES.... no more veiny Sam for you!
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-15 17:16
Quote:
Well... it WAS two episodes of veiny Sam, not just one.
Oh psh. It was at the very end of episode one. You can't count that as an episode.

Quote:
and it's going to be Sam's visions that are his real storyline.
Can I has demon blood too? :<

Quote:
I don't supposed Sam will catch it again though.
*chases after Sam with infected blood*

Quote:
Sorry YES.... no more veiny Sam for you!
*sulks in the corner* .____.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 17:47
I hear ya. I am slightly disappointed that the Darkness hasn't been more earthshaking in it's scope of terror. So far, a soul eating child and some localized veiny angry people that thanks to Sam are cured (the ones left) and are no longer a threat. But it is only the second episode so who knows what the future episodes will bring. I am still excited though and thought the start of the season has been mostly great. I am sure the writers have a few nasty cards up their sleeves.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 19:54
Yes, but wasn't that aging baby face creepy as anything? That was seriously disturbing. I wonder what that baby's mother thought when she saw her newborn infant in the episode?
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2015-10-15 20:43
I didn't get the sense that it was that easy. We were told before dean even left that the shelf life of this disease was minimal. People became rabid and died within hours of being infected, depending on the individual. Sam got infected the night before. Instead of worrying dean with something that there was no way dean can fix anyway, he kept being infected to himself so dean can get the sheriff and baby to safety. when next we see sam, it's daylight again....so though we didn't see it, he'd been sick through the night. His survival rate at this point has already exceeded most everyone he's come into contact so far who was rabid. He continues searching for a cure when he's stopped by a song...he then encounters reaper billie. After he was notified that he and dean had basically run out of cat lives....and that once they died they she was going to send them into the "empty", she did her reap and sam went off to the chapel to pray. Instead of praying for himself, he simply prayed for his brother and a sign to help him fight the darkness...his prayer was answered on his way back to the lab when he saw visions of himself tortured in hell. Now given that it's a bit early for us to see Lucifer or Michael right now, the best/most subtle clue given was the torture itself. we all know who was doing the torturing....so it's safe to assume I think at this point that God's pretty much telling Sam that they need to go to Lucifer for help. Then we see sam back at the computer, but now he's really sick, so my take on that is that some time had passed from his vision to where he's at now...in the state he's in, which is clearly near the end, his mind is scrambling through everything he's been told, including Billie's what I feel to be "intentional clue" regarding him being unclean in a biblical way...why the hell say that at all unless it was meant to be a clue...that's when he starts googling info on biblical purification and comes up with a hail mary pass in the 11th hour....

it may seem like it happened quickly, but given that there were three different parts of this story going on...and sam found the cure during the last few minutes of the eppy....I think it a plausible amount of time spent on finding the cure....especia lly given that most everyone else who had been infected before or at the same time as sam was already dead....;);)
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-16 08:44
With three stories going on there's a delicate balance going on. It was a good episode but I felt Sam needed more air time and Cas needed less.
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2015-10-16 14:47
I concur...i couldve done with a little less cas and more sam;)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-15 16:43
Yup he put the Holy oil in the duffle and because there wasn't any more room in it he left the GRENADE LAUNCHER AND THE ARROW that we saw in the preview pics (and that Jensen himself tweeted) behind. Damn, I was really looking forward to those!
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 17:48
Well now we know there is a grenade launcher! Who knew?
Russ
# Russ 2015-10-16 01:12
It's been there since season one, and never been used.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-16 15:03
Did they mention it in S1? I don't recall. I thought it was some kind of heavy duty machine gun in the promo shots. Seems like it could have come in handy a few times.:)
debbab
# debbab 2015-10-16 13:03
1.BTD- useful plot device to show Sam's willingness to die if Dean can have a life, to show us Smart Sam like he used to be, to remind us of the visions and the Cage, to remind us that Sam prayed in Houses of the Holy and wants to believe, to remind us of Croatoa, to introduce Billie the reaper- brilliant. To show us Sam is still a great hunter and problem solver and that he still keeps important information from Dean. BTD is out there if needed. And to reset to an earlier time in the series and to put us on notice that Winchesters can not only die but disappear into the nothingness- so vulnerable now.
2. We have seen Sam without a soul. THis would be redundant. Dean- may come close. I would say no.
3. Amara inherited the mark, the soft spot for candy and an adorable smile ....from whom? Not sure after Slice girls that writers would be repetitive, but something took place in that fog. Crowley knows Dean cannot kill Amara at least as a baby- too maternal.
4. Cas continues his disobedience. He let Metatron escape. Angels hate him. They also know how to extract information a la Naomi. Hard to tell angels from demons these days. He chose Winchesters over angels again and again. Jealous bunch those angels.
5. It is always about the commodity of souls for Crowley. He tried with Cas, he tried with Dick Roman. It is his stock and trade. This one may bite him back. He might have to grovel for help from the Winchesters as he thinks he can work with Amara. Depends how dark Crowley becomes....so far it is pretty dark. His future as a character may be at risk.
6. The whole scene with Billie the reaper was awesome. The use of shadowy fingers brings us back to earlier reapers. She does spill the beans to Sam about being unclean in a biblical way which leads to his cure. And yes, that jar of holy oil has been in the arsenal for quite a while. Not sure if it ever runs out and Cas has been refilling it or it mysteriously does not run out.
Lots of echos of past seasons. S 11 taking form. Andrew Dabb did a nice re-set. Take the first two episodes together as a movie and it plays as a solid horror flick. Loved the choice of "Sugar Shack" as Sam's pick to lure the rabids.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-10-15 13:45
Quote:
So Sam got the sign he prayed for in hindsight. I get the purification... but that cure was found awfully fast. Apparently more than a few people were thinking Sam just thought to Google it himself and boom there it was. Wasn't the voice telling him NOT TO do it? Maybe it's just a temporary cure and he made things worse for himself? That was confusing, I'm not sure if I heard it correctly.
People were dropping dead after a few hours from the disease, so it's hard to picture worse than dead. I took the voice to be the part of Sam that is afraid of pain and fire and didn't think setting himself on fire was a good idea.

Quote:
And not to nit pick but how much Holy oil is in that jug? You know, rare Holy oil. What did they find an untapped Holy oil well somewhere? Loved how we got to see smart Sam in several different situations.
I'm going with since John (not a priest) could make Holy Water by blessing a water tank and throwing in a rosary, then Sam and Dean started blessing any oil they have and it becomes Holy Oil. You know, change the oil in the Impala, bless it and throw it in the Holy Oil jug. It's recycling.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 14:35
It did seem like pretty rare stuff. The holy oil. Why would Cas go to the holy land to retrieve it if it was just a matter of blessing some motor oil? Although I do like the recycling idea.:)
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-15 16:07
I hope the writers aren't going to come out with blessing motor oil to get holy oil. We'll be getting holy everything! Holy alcohol, holy tea etc
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 17:34
Holy smoke. Holy cow. Holy s***. Holy mackerel. LOL
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-15 19:31
Leah dear I think you're getting addicted to editing your comments. Step away, nice and slow.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 20:02
Ha! I kept thinking of more.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-16 02:00
It's like that caption contest of Nates... once you start, you just can't stop. It's a sickness I tell ya!!! ;)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-16 06:13
Holy buckets is a particular favorite of mine. I have no idea what it means, but it's got a certain kind of snazzy ring to it..........
spnlit
# spnlit 2015-10-15 19:24
I think baby could spit out holy oil after every oil change.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-15 17:14
Percy - I thought I read somewhere that Sam doesn't tell Dean he's infected until later on. If he's cured then what would the big deal be? What reason in the world would Sam hold that information back after the fact? Unless he doesn't want to let Dean in on the Holy Oil Marshmallow Cure and Quick Snak™. Now Sam, it's only right that Dean know the receipe! How else is it going to be a "family business"? Sorry. ;) Seriously tho did anyone else read or hear that? By "later" I didn't get the impression it was going to be any time soon. That's why I was thinking maybe the marshmallow treatment is only a temporary solution?
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 20:12
I hadn't heard that he tells Dean "later" but I could have sworn in a preview clip that Sam says "I was infected" but that didn't appear in this episode. Well there is the ep Baby coming up which supposedly has LOTS of dialogue. Maybe the brothers will have their much needed and long overdue heart to heart in that ep. Although, them talking to one another is something I'd like to see in EVERY episode....I'm greedy like that, but it seems like a Carver move to cram it all into one ep and then move on.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-10-15 20:23
Sam told the guy eating the pudding that he(Sam) was infected last night. So the line has been said. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if we never hear about this illness again. Or we could hear about it later, even next season.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-15 17:14
Percy - I thought I read somewhere that Sam doesn't tell Dean he's infected until later on. If he's cured then what would the big deal be? What reason in the world would Sam hold that information back after the fact? Unless he doesn't want to let Dean in on the Holy Oil Marshmallow Cure and Quick Snak™. Now Sam, it's only right that Dean know the receipe! How else is it going to be a "family business"? Sorry. ;) Seriously tho did anyone else read or hear that? By "later" I didn't get the impression it was going to be any time soon. That's why I was thinking maybe the marshmallow treatment is only a temporary solution?
Grace232
# Grace232 2015-10-15 01:25
Can I just say - this was such an amazing episode! I was transfixed the whole hour. I usually dislike it when the brothers are working seoarately, but this was done so well that it worked. I think this will be one of my favorite episodes. I also yelled when Crowley was in the room as the priest. I did not see that coming! And, is it just me, or when little girl Amara smiles, doesnt she remind you of Lilith in seasons3/4? I love smart Sam figuring things out. And I think Dean let Crowley live because they have bigger fish to deal with and he figured he may need the King of Hell as an ally at some point for the bigger battle. As to your questions -

1 - I think we will see that disease again. Sort of like the Croatoan virus apoeared in season 2 and then was back at end of the season 5. Speaking of Croatoan - so many parallels to that episode.

2 - no I dont think she will eat the brothers and

3 - I think she will continue to have a special relationship with Dean. But - I am most interested to see how her relatiinship with Crowley develops. Wonder if this will be like when he thought he was grooming Dean but could not control him. I could see Amara biting him in the butt - so to speak - as well.

4 - cas freed Metatron. And he works with humans. Of course the angels hate him.

5 - Crowley is usually several moves ahead of everyone else, and his end game is usually power.

6 - Billie was amazing! The show has needed a replacement for Tessa. I can see her being a long term character.

I cannot wait for next week!
cheryl42
# cheryl42 2015-10-15 01:32
BTD?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-15 03:17
Blood Throat Disease.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 02:19
1) I don't know. I was wondering what their purpose was myself.

2) I doubt it, but Soulless Sam is kind of entertaining.

3) Protective obviously, but why?

4) So many reasons...."God Cas" didn't endear him to them. Letting Metatron out. Angels aren't much for forgiveness apparently.

5) Whatever benefits him the most. He does have a vested interest in souls.

6) I always loved that song and it was an incredible intro to Death! So hearing her sing it so hauntingly was awesome. I liked the actress and the scene very much and she confirmed my theory that the reapers were carrying on with the reaping in the absence of their "boss".

My early off-the-cuff thoughts are that it was a really good episode. I am a little disappointed that the big bad Darkness is a soul eating child, soon to be an adult I'm sure. Soul eating is not new to the show. If random veiny neck disease and soul eating is all there is, it doesn't seem all that formidable. Especially since Sam already cured half the problem already. YAY Sam!!! When you say you are going to find a cure you aren't screwing around. :) I hope that there is more to it. Dean didn't seem very bothered at Jenna's death, just pissed. However I am enjoying the season thus far and I am onboard for the ride.
Suzkatoon75
# Suzkatoon75 2015-10-15 03:04
How does Dean show that he is upset, sad, annoyed? He doesn't do it in traditional sense he acts so he got pissed and attacked Crowley. He was bothered by it but he went all out soldier mode immediately. No time to think so to speak and he had Crowley and Amara to deal with.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 12:47
True enough. Anger is his go-to emotion when he is in soldier mode. :)
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 17:02
Quote:
I am a little disappointed that the big bad Darkness is a soul eating child, soon to be an adult I'm sure. Soul eating is not new to the show. If random veiny neck disease and soul eating is all there is, it doesn't seem all that formidable.


I do agree with this Leah. Especially because people were not even around when the D was last free, so why would human souls be its food of choice? But I decided that I'm going to wait and hope that the need/desire for souls is temporary and will be replaced by something far more unusual and compelling, befitting this pre-biblical amoral force. Although I have no ideas on what that might be!
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-15 18:01
Well supposldly The Darkness doesn't know what a cheeseburger is yet, so maybe it just learned what a soul is and found that not only are they bright and shiny but also tasty like potato chips? You know how it is, no one can eat just one. Don't judge!
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 18:08
:)
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-16 06:53
I don't know about potato chips. I bet that, like everything else, souls taste just like chicken.:)
Suzkatoon75
# Suzkatoon75 2015-10-15 03:02
1. Do you think the BTD will return or is it isolated to Superior? What was its purpose? I like "The Rapids" name better and it does seem isolated for now.
2. So we know Amara eats souls, will she eat the Winchesters? I don't think she will eat Dean and if she knows him, Sam is off limits too.
3. What is Dean’s relationship to her? Maybe she feels he is his "father" a bit as he carried the Mark of Cain? Honestly, have still no idea.
4. Why do the angels hate Castiel? In short, seasons 5-10 are the reasons. Cas has made some mistakes.
5. What is Crowley’s end game? Crowley is Crowley's end game. That has never changed.
6. What did you think of Billie and her prediction? Also, wasn't her voice simply beautiful and haunting? I loved that scene so much. I agree, she was cool and her voice and those empty halls of the hospital were beautiful and strong and eerie at the same time. Good character introduction and it only pales a little with Death's which was epic. The prediction? It actually hit me when she said it. She didn't say Purgatory and she was specific that they would toss them to emptiness. So among the three that is the fourth place. Is that the place where the monsters go from Purgatory when they die? Is Emptiness the place where everything tossed/ended up there cease to exist? It intrigues me.

I liked this two parter a lot but why kill Jenna, why? I know even if it was short time I still liked her. I will not say this because she was female but because she was likable and good character. And Crowley killing her. That son-of-a-... But Crowley is back being bad alright. I actually felt the same about the dad that died in last episode. RIP Hannah man. Why do they kill the good angels too? I think there is more to the Darkness still than what we have seen here so I can wait. I also think that change doesn't happen over night and we have had only two episodes. The boys have rest of the season to chat. Also, Sam asked for a sign? I think the sign is to find the answer. That seemed like hell in his vision. Maybe he needs to pay a visit to the cage?
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-15 13:31
Quote:
Also, Sam asked for a sign? I think the sign is to find the answer. That seemed like hell in his vision. Maybe he needs to pay a visit to the cage?


I bet it was God giving him a vision. Well I hope not. I want some demon blood action..
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-15 04:01
WE GOT THE BAND BACK TOGETHER :):):):):):):): ) J2M2
I enjoyed this episode. The key is to only watch the clips and not much more.
CROWLEY IS BACK. :):):):):):):): ):):):):):):)
Thought Sam was on a fools errand but it Worked !!!!!!!!
Jen
# Jen 2015-10-15 06:22
You all forgot the most important issue here. The bunker maid. I'm in and I ain't sharing lol

1. Do you think the BTD will return or is it isolated to Superior? What was its purpose? I don't think this particular strain BTD will be back it had a short shelf live and didn't have any real purpose. I think baby Amara summoned BTD as a distraction so she could get what she wanted at the hospital (Souls) and start her growth she was way to vunerable as a baby. I really don't feel Baby Amara expected Sam & Dean

2. So we know Amara eats souls, will she eat the Winchesters? No I can't see the benefit in that Amara doesn't see Dean as a threat she has that bond going with him Sam not sure

3. What is Dean’s relationship to her? Ok I'm gonna say it. Maybe there was some hanky panky going on in the darkness and Adult Amara & Dean made Baby Amara

4. Why do the angels hate Castiel? I think its been a long time coming Cas had moved away from the traditional way of Angel thinking and sometimes it worked and other times it didn't And God hasn't come back I think they blame Cas for alot of unrest.

5. What is Crowley’s end game? To win of course To be the badest and strongest He will have no hope besting Amara

6. What did you think of Billie and her prediction? Also, wasn't her voice simply beautiful and haunting? I loved that sequence so much. OMG I could have had another 10min of that scene I was crying so much I totally love Billie's character and I reckon she may become the new death. Her prediction was unsettling. The Boys have no way out now they die their dead :(:(:(:(

I am so lpving this season they are blending the 4 characters together so well showing their stories and the changes that are happening. As for the much wanted converstion with Sam and Dean it didn't fit not yet. They will discuss bits and pieces as time goes on Did you notice the look of surprise on Sam's face when Dean casually said " maybe it was a vision" now thats going to help Sam bring up his and have a chat. Be patient it will happen
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 07:44
Andrew Dabb comes through again! I love you, man! Like Grace, I was transfixed the entire hour. Like Jen, I thought the ep did a superb job of balancing all of the stories and moving from one to the other. Like most commenters, I LOVED smart Sam! I don't think he found the cure really fast. I thought it took a bit of time for Billie's words to filter through and set him on the right path. Perhaps it would have occurred to him faster if he hadn't been a bit disoriented from the BTD, but I was satisfied with how that all played out. I'm also loving this Sam who is committed to saving as many people as he can. It reminds me of the Sam from the Born Again Identity who, even though he was at death's door, was trying with his last breath to save the girl from the ghost. I loved the entire scene with Billie- the writing, the direction, the acting, the singing. I thought it was brilliant. It also answered the question of how Death's death (tongue twister!) would effect reaping of souls- seemingly, not much. More Billie, please! The only thing that I was not happy about is the confirmation that Death is dead. Just doesn't make sense that he could be killed so easily. Which reminds me- did Death's scythe (or sickle) disintegrate when he did? Otherwise, wouldn't that be a potential weapon against the D? After all, if it could kill Death, who said that HE would be the one to reap God, then it could kill God. And if it could kill God, who defeated the D, then couldn't it kill the D? Just something I was mulling over. The other thing I loved about Sam's story is the hell visions-Lucifer is trying to contact him, methinks. I'm not sure to what end, but the demons did say there was a ruckus in the cage. I'm actually drooling in anticipation of more developments on that story line. One last Sam thought: the scene where he was praying was great on a few levels. It reminded me of Dean praying to Cas to look out for Sam in Remember the Titans, so it seems like a bit of a role reversal. I loved the shout out to Houses of the Holy, where we learned that Sam prayed every day. In just two episode we have gotten a number of references to the events of earlier seasons and I hope TPTB continue to do so. It's nice to know that they realize those events actually happened, and could/should color the events all these years later. The best part is that Sam has an interesting, active role in the story and is behaving in keeping with the character who was established all those years ago. Please let it continue.
Dean's story is also interesting; I just hope his connection to Amara doesn't eventually put the brothers at odds. You promised us Carver! But I love the flashes of humorous Dean we're getting, and of caring Dean, and of the old Dean who was Crowley's enemy. No, it didn't make sense to me that he wouldn't at least try to kill Crowley, but I'm resigning myself to the fact that Crowley is and always will be his frenemy. I shall take consolation in Sam's effort to kill Crowley last year.Dean just seems more himself so far this year and I'm enjoying it immensely. I loved his snarky exchanges with Crowley.
Which brings me to Crowley. I loved him in this ep- he seemed mostly like old Crowley, vicious and hilarious and cunning. I'm thinking his attempt to befriend Amara will come back to bite him in the ass, otherwise the D will be a complete and utter joke as the ultimate big bad.
I'm enjoying Cas's story as well. I like his more forceful persona this year, and that he's a little wiser to the angels' MO and realized quickly that Hannah was playing him. As far as the angels hating him, it would be shocking if they didn't. The massive amount of damage he has inflicted on heaven over the years, his allegiance to the Winchesters trumping any loyalty to heaven- he has been a very BAD angel. His freeing of Metatron to help Sam seemingly undermined Hannah's authority ( since she was a Cas friend) and now heaven is perhaps leaderless. I really hope someone a little more charismatic than Hannah fills the void. I liked the character, but she never seemed like a strong leader. I wouldn't mind a throwback to the powerful, compelling angels of seasons 4-5, only maybe a little less dickish!
The only thing I wasn't crazy about in the ep was the ending. I was hoping for at least a bit more conversation between the brothers about the events of the past few days. Presumably Sam told Dean about the cure he found, but did he tell him that he himself had been infected? And like sylvia I'm still waiting for more substantive conversations about the events at the end of last season. But hopefully that's on tap for a future ep. Truly, these first two episodes have had so many of the elements that have made SPN a great show that I am actually ridiculously excited about it once again.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-10-15 08:47
Even though there was a rehash of some themes/ideas from earlier seasons, loved the look and feel of the episode. Billie was great, love her voice and hope we see more of her this season. So I guess this means that Death had a theme song :) The reapers are really, really pissed at the Winchesters, though Billie did give Sam a clue as to what was going on. For all of the controversy last week, looks like Sam's plan worked out okay; he did figure out how to cure himself and others of BTD, and was able to at least save a couple of the people.

I don't know if the brothers are withholding anything from each other.... yet. We haven't seen them together that much in these episodes so let's see how this plays out next week.

Sam's visions are intiguing; are they from God or someone/somethi ng else? Looks like the visions are pointing him towards "The Cage".

Dean had a rough week; the sheriff and her grandmother are dead and Crowley took off with Amara.

"Father" Crowley was great; I missed this Crowley.

Castiel's stuff was even slightly interesting this week, insofar as any of this constant angel bickering crap can be interesting. This will be a switch; instead of something wrong with Sam or Dean, it will be "something is wrong with Cas" this season.

A couple of quibbles though -

Amara is going to eat souls? Haven't we been down this road more than a couple of times already? Crocotta in Season 3, Godstiel in S6/S7, Abaddon collecting souls and turning them in to demons?

They are really redefining how people behave when soulless, aren't they? Would prefer if this were a little more nuanced then soulless = sociopathic murderer.

1. Do you think the BTD will return or is it isolated to Superior? What was its purpose?
Dead body = freed soul = feed the baby / Amara. It'll probably be a theme, at least in the early part of the season.

2. So we know Amara eats souls, will she eat the Winchesters?
Doubtful she'll touch Dean, and Dean won't let her go after Sam. Besides, both of their souls are pretty damaged at this point.

3. What is Dean’s relationship to her?
Not sure yet but they better be careful because Amara is a baby that's gonna grow up fast and any sexual tension between them will be, for lack of a better term, icky.

4. Why do the angels hate Castiel?
Ummm... let's see; he helped the Winchesters avert the Apocalypse, he played God and wiped out half the angels, he unknowingly helped Metatron cast the angels out of heaven, then freed Metatron from heaven jail and let him escape. Take your pick.

5. What is Crowley’s end game?
Power - Crowley wants to influence/curry favor with Amara.

6. What did you think of Billie and her prediction? Also, wasn't her voice simply beautiful and haunting? I loved that sequence so much.
That was one of the highlights of the episode; also liked finding out that Death found it amusing that Sam and Dean kept being bought back. He did have a soft spot for them after all. I think this puts to rest the question as to whether Death is dead or not.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 10:07
Quote:
For all of the controversy last week, looks like Sam's plan worked out okay; he did figure out how to cure himself and others of BTD, and was able to at least save a couple of the people.
Actually he did more than save a 'couple of people'. He cured all the townspeople he could find "Let's go heal the rest" although that was done offscreen; and he's found a way to cure anyone else who's infected. I think they'll be running across Rabid's all season long and will be able to cure all of them. I wonder if they could starve Amara to death?
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-10-15 10:44
my comment was in reference to the fact that it looks like a majority of the people had already died, or were close to death, when Sam and Dean pulled into town.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 11:49
True, but Sam set out to do exactly what he did and after all the crap fans were giving him in comments its nice to see him get the win for a change. He was right to do what he did and they can now save anyone that they run across who's infected. That's no small thing IMO.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-10-15 12:16
why are you arguing with me when we are in agreement?
E
# E 2015-10-15 13:55
I'm not arguing at all. Just making a statement.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-15 11:52
The fact that people are still able to Die, means that death is not dead. Are we talking the personification of death only?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-15 11:53
The fact that people are still able to Die, means that death is not dead. Are we talking the personification of death only?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-15 11:53
The fact that people are still able to Die, means that death is not dead. Are we talking the personification of death only?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-15 11:53
The fact that people are still able to Die, means that death is not dead. Are we talking the personification of death only?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-15 11:53
The fact that people are still able to Die, means that death is not dead. Are we talking the personification of death only?
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-15 11:59
Pardon, no delete button.
did not do that at all.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-10-15 12:15
yes, Death as in one of the Four Horsemen.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 16:57
Actually Billie the reaper confirmed that Death was dead and said that reapers were still going about their business gathering souls as usual. Kinda wondering what the big deal about Death was if there's been no impact from his .....um... death. Geez that sentence was weird.
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 16:17
Quote:
Dead body = freed soul = feed the baby
That hadn't occurred to me but it makes perfect sense. I also agree that any Dean/Amara love connection would be icky, and it would also be ludicrous.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 16:58
Agreed. Really, REALLY icky and in incredibly poor taste.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-15 18:08
If she's grown I don't see the ick factor. A little weird yes but the bond is to TheDarkness regardless of the form. It's not like it's child molestation people, c'mon. She had to begin somewhere.
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 19:09
Nonetheless, if she is the adult version of the little baby that Dean was cuddling, it seems at least in the neighborhood of grossness. Hmm, starting to wonder about you AlyCat! ;)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 20:16
Agreed! I can't even fathom watching Dean, nearing 40, becoming lustful with a woman, in a 20 year old body, who was an infant that he was feeling paternal towards only a few weeks before. Just ICK and YUCK and No. Woody Allen was crucified for doing pretty much the exact same thing. There are lines you don't cross and the parent/lover line is one of them.
LEAH
# LEAH 2015-10-15 23:25
I am not sure how I would feel about that. I just don't want a love connection at all. The Wood Allen thing is so much ickier to me. He was her father essentially for years. I am embarrassed that I know this but in the Twilight books, Jacob was the self appointed protector of Bella's baby because she was fated to be his soul mate when she reached adulthood. I was a little tweaked by that notion. He said he only thought of her as a child but at what point is it ok to think of her as a mate? Of course we are talking about vampires and werewolves. In Dean's case he seems to have a bond with Amara as a concept in his head and has a protective instinct for the baby Amara who he only knew for a few hrs. The child seems to be a conveyance for Amara to be able adapt to this world. At the moment she is only able to be in Deans mind. I don't think Dean is attracted to the baby. If she turns into an adult in days I think I would see it as an ancient entity emerging not a child. I don't know really, I am trying to work it out in my mind as I wrote this. I honestly am a little confused by it all.
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-16 07:13
Quote:
I just don't want a love connection at all.
I completely agree with this. Aside from the ick factor, which not all seem to feel, a romantic or sexual connection between Dean and Amara would completely rob the D of any air of mystery or impressiveness. I was, and still am, a little leery of the ongoing personification of the D as a person. It undermines the notion of her as a pre-biblical force of immense power. But if she is also to feel some attraction to a human, the D will seem like even a lesser force than Abaddon. It would be like Death giving the once over to some woman, or God (not Chuck/God, the actual God). These ageless supernatural beings IMO should be above or at least completely uninterested, in such things.
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-16 00:25
Not 20, late 20s was the description given by TPTB. The actress herself is I believe 35? I would place adult Amara as around 30, no way in the early 20s. Say she's 29 for arguments sake and Dean is 37 - that's hardly an age difference unheard of in the adult world. You guys act like he's robbing the cradle. Ageists! ;)
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-16 00:38
Dean is not her parent. That he was feeling protective of her because of the "bond" between them is not the same thing. I don't think he's in any danger of becoming Woody Allen II any time soon. I'm not even sure they are going to go that direction, I think they were just teasing it on that last clip. She was definitely moving into his space, looking at his lips. I thought he was looking in her eyes, searching her face trying to figure her out, feeling but fighting the connection between them, though he did look like he was about to give into his attraction to her. Then the dialoge, how "she wasn't much of a talker"... they want us to think something more happened, but I don't think it did. Just my thoughts. :)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-16 06:23
The show has established their connection as parent/child and no matter how short that feeling was in Dean that is what fans will remember, that is what I will remember. I would be creeped out majorly if they go down a romantic road after that. Gross. If Dean get's sexy with Amara I will only be able to remember him holding her as a baby and lovingly stroking her little head. Maybe you don't feel that way and that's fine, but I will be shocked beyond measure if the show goes there and will have took to scrub my brain if anything of a sexual nature is shown. And I am talking about the adult female who will be adult Amara probably by next week, not the lady in the mist; having seen a picture of the actress she's 20 if she's a day.....and actually, given that she was born on the 14th she really is only a few days regardless of her appearance. :P
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 20:20
Quote:
Amara is going to eat souls? Haven't we been down this road more than a couple of times already? Crocotta in Season 3, Godstiel in S6/S7, Abaddon collecting souls and turning them in to demons?


I just thought of another one. Famine also ate souls, so it really would be repetitive to go that route again.
percysowner
# percysowner 2015-10-15 22:03
It's not the same, but Amara is a little girl threatening the world just like Lilith.
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 22:14
She really did have a Lilith vibe and smile in that last scene with Crowley.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 09:53
OMG, that episode was fan-freaking-ta stic! SO much good stuff happening, really well balanced, well acted, tense and bonafide scary. So far I am really liking where they are taking the Dean/Amara connection. Dean seems conflicted, his paternal instinct at war with his protective/hunt er instincts and his connection to TheD. He knows what Amara is and knows he will have to try and end her, but when Crowley went to do just that he freaked out, seemingly against his own will and better judgement. Interesting. My only hope, just like samandean is that this does not create a brother vs. brother situation later on down the road. I also don't want some sudden reversal in the 11th hour either......."o h look! TheD is actually really GOOD, we should have been supporting her all along!"

I think for now that BTD was localized to Superior; it occurred to me that it was the product of Amara's birth sort of like a small ground zero that surrounded the place of her birth. I am wondering if the Rabids were originally created by the cloud as her protectors; I mean we know that they wanted to get to her and we all assumed it was to kill her, but maybe it was to protect her and offer her up their souls so that she could grow. It seems to me that BTD for now is localized to superior, but it will probably creep up from time to time as the season progresses as it is a contagion. But thanks to brilliant Sammy! (yeah for Smart Sam!!) they brothers know how to deal with it.

Father Crowley....heh. Loved that and him. He was bad ass in this episode and it was nice to see. Yes. Dean should have killed him, there's a dozen times that Crowley should have been killed, I've just come to the conclusion that Crowley is here to stay and if he's ever killed it won't be the Winchesters that do it. I'm fine with that and can overlook the logic fail. I mean if they didn't kill him while he was lying paralyzed by a devils trap bullet and completely helpless on that sofa then they simply aren't going to do it. And I have to say that this was the first time I've been interested in what's going on with Cas in FOREVER. I was worried about the torture scene, afraid that it would be too much and gratuitous, but it worked because there was so much going on there. I loved that Cas was smart and cunning enough to sniff out the subterfuge surrounding his capture. I did feel bad about Hannah Man. I liked her/him and the almost tender relationship between he/she and Cas. And I am glad he went to the boys for help, even though he waltzed right into the impenetrable fortress that is Grand Central Bunker.

Sam's scenes were just terrific in this episode. The confession at the church, the plea for Dean to have a life (not for himself though, which made me sad. Sam's quest for normal or even for any kind of life at all seems to be well and truly over.:() And his scene with the reaper. She was awesome. I find it interesting that she doesn't seem to know about TheD though and what that might mean for reapers or for anyone else for that matter. You'd think if Death knew than the reapers might know too. And she did tell Sam that he was "unclean, in the biblical sense." Does that mean his demon blood? And his visions, wow, those don't look fun at all. Poor Sam, he begs for some help and for a sign and when he gets one it's an awful experience and cryptic to boot. "What does it mean!" I feel your pain Sammy, I really do. I like the potential conflict that they are setting up here for Sam as well. Maybe he will have to really face those hell memories, maybe he will have to contact Lucifer and actually trust the information that he's getting from him. I love that each brother is facing an issue with a huge potential inner conflict. I am praying to all the writing gods that the brothers turn to each other to help with the conflict in each of their situations rather than having it divide them; we've had entirely enough of that. My early prediction (pure speculation on my part) is that Dean will have to force himself to kill Amara using intel and info that Sam has gleaned from the most shady and corrupt of sources. Sam will have to trust Dean to be able to fight against the hold TheD has over him and Dean will have to trust that what intel Sam is giving him is correct. This is the direction I'd go in anyway.

If I had one picky complaint it was the lack of talk between the boys. I think given how relaxed and at ease with each other they were in the bunker scene that we can assume that they hashed out a lot of stuff off screen. But geez! I wanted to SEE that. I could have sworn that in the promo Sam said "I was infected" but I never saw that in the episode, or if he did, I missed it. Grrrr. I want Sam to tell Dean about the infection AND the cure. I want Dean to tell Sam that he's feeling protective instincts for Amara. Anyway... stellar, intense episode. Kudos Mr. Dabb. Nice job. Keep it up. Please.
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 16:23
Quote:
If I had one picky complaint it was the lack of talk between the boys. I think given how relaxed and at ease with each other they were in the bunker scene that we can assume that they hashed out a lot of stuff off screen. But geez! I wanted to SEE that.
Agreed!
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-15 09:56
Mmm.. Remember when I said this show seems to disappoint me? It didn't fail me this time. A little bit of black
veined Sam here, a little bit of late stage infection there. Barely knew him! No psycho Sam at all. Oh and teeny
bit of visions. Thats nice. Yep. Back to writing in my own way and get a kick out of that. Ah but I must thank the
show for hyping me up so much I was brimming with ideas and passion, writing away like never before.

Poor dear Hannah, dying just like that. Ah but lets focus on Jenna. That was indeed a shame. Rescued and taken home. Only to to have her soul taken out and killed. Then there's Cas. Some nice scenes there. I thought the ending to the episode was good, with him lying on the floor begging for help from the boys. Ah, well he'll be cured next episode. No biggie.

Back to Sam. And this is spoiler I guess if you didn't watch the S11 promo. We didn't see all the visions. So at least I have that to look forward to. But thats probably it. Visions. Done with the black veins and of course no demon blood wrap up party.

*sigh* What can I say? Not a happy bunny.

Now, lets answer some questions

1. Do you think the BTD will return or is it isolated to Superior? What was its purpose?
The what now?

2. So we know Amara eats souls, will she eat the Winchesters?
Eh... may seem cliche. We already had Soulless Sam. But in this episode seemed more evil. Picture this; the kid takes Sam's soul and he carries on with an unknowing Dean. Imagine what he could do. Now rip that picture up because it wont happen.

3. What is Dean’s relationship to her?
She'll hit on him I'm sure.

4. Why do the angels hate Castiel?
Does one really need to recite it? Anyone who's been watching will know :D

5. What is Crowley’s end game?
As someone said; power. Its wise of him to suck up to a force more powerful than she. Who knows? He may try to stab her in the back at some point.

6. What did you think of Billie and her prediction?

Ideal view: She meant the demon blood. Realistic view: She was just on about the black veins, thinking Sam would indeed die from them.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 10:14
I don't know Yellow.... I though her "you're unclean in the Biblical sense" could have been a reference to his demon blood. But then the cure he found could apply to anyone so who knows. Maybe he needed the BTD (Black Throat Disease) to awaken the demon blood and reconnect him to Lucifer and from there he will get intel into how to fight Amara. I'd like that. I know it's not all out eeeeviiile Sammy like you want, but it looks like we are going to get more cage flashbacks. Tortured and tied up Sammy is almost as good!
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 16:24
Quote:
Tortured and tied up Sammy is almost as good!
E, that is pretty twisted *nodding my head vigorously in agreement*;)
YellowEyedSam
# YellowEyedSam 2015-10-15 17:18
Yeah umm I agree too xD
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 20:18



Hehe.
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 20:24
The only thing better than tied up Sam is really buff and angry tied up Sam! OK, shallow interlude is over- for now!:D
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 21:32
No, no....there's more shallow further down. :D
sugarhi15
# sugarhi15 2015-10-15 10:18
Do you think the BTD will return or is it isolated to Superior? What was its purpose?
I'm not sure the BTD had a specific purpose other than it being a side effect of the Darkness being freed. I do think that Sam being affected by BTD had a purpose. Not only did Sam find a cure but it led him to pray to God, which I do believe Sam was in fact given a sign. Sam's vision went by so fast that I didn't get what was going on, all I saw was red and torture....but Bookdal, now that you've speculated it might be hell, I lean toward believing you're right. I think Sam was having specific memories of the cage.....and if that's what he specifically remembered after praying for a sign from God... I now believe that the answer to defeating darkness may in act lie with Lucifer...I think the vision is calling for the Winchesters to go to Lucifer for help.

2. So we know Amara eats souls, will she eat the Winchesters?
I don't think Amara will be eating the Winchesters.... I kind of wonder if she'll even need to eat any more souls once she's fully grown. Seems right souls help her grow....once an adult I don't really see her eating them anymore, but too soon to tell for sure.
3. What is Dean’s relationship to her?
I think that when the mark was on cain, and God decreed no one can kill cain, darkness was pretty much contained....bu t I also believe that once Lucifer betrayed God, he always knew that the chance of darkness being released was a probability...w hich is why I believe Sam and dean Winchester had to be born. I think Dean needs to stay alive in order to defeat her, which I have no doubt the boys eventually will....as I view God omnipotent....I think he always knew dean would take the mark...given that the mark coming from dean has bonded him with her...gratitude ...while on cain she was trapped....on dean she is free..he gave her her freedom so for that, she is indebted, bonded....not so unlike Lucifer felt with sam....as long as this bond remains, dean won't be killed...and a living dean is what's necessary to kill her.
4. Why do the angels hate Castiel?
I think the angels are pissed that cas is even still alive, gets to keep coming back when all he's ever seem to have done is turn his back on the angels and heaven.
5. What is Crowley’s end game?
survival....dar kness is a force I don't think Crowley can even defeat....if you can't beat em...join em....
6. What did you think of Billie and her prediction? Also, wasn't her voice simply beautiful and haunting? I loved that sequence so much
I don't think reapers have the power to decide where souls go. I think God decides. Reapers simply help them along. now I think Death himself made sure the reapers did what they were supposed to do...kept them in line...now I know....what about that rogue reaper ajay...well seems to me that rogue reapers usually end up dead....and Crowley was the one who kidnapped bobby...and sam ended up doing the very trial to help bobby escape...so in essence, I think bobby was in hell because he was part of the trial that if completed successfully would've closed the gates of hell. so even if billie threw one or both of the boys in the empty or dared try....I totally believe that God wouldn't allow it. I still believe that he's still around and always has been helping the boys. But billie brought up a very possible solution for the darkness which I think was important for sam to know, even if it was in the form of a threat.....If the darkness cannot be killed and the only way to rid it is to contain it again....then the best place to do that is in the Empty. so in essence, my personal opinion is that billie provided sam with the solution....he just doesn't know it yet. ;)
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 16:27
Quote:
If the darkness cannot be killed and the only way to rid it is to contain it again....then the best place to do that is in the Empty. so in essence, my personal opinion is that billie provided sam with the solution....he just doesn't know it yet. ;)
That's a very intriguing thought sugarhi. I would be very happy if it turns out to be the case.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 11:52
Do you think the BTD will return or is it isolated to Superior? What was its purpose?
I wondered if BTD is supposed to create a food supply of willing victims who will seek Amara out to offer themselves to her, especially now while she's young and at her most vulnerable. The illness has a short shelf life, but it's also contagious, so realistically it can be passed along and continue on indefinitely, or at least until there are no humans left to infect, which might take a while. When Amara is grown and at peak power she probably won't need the BTD to help sustain her, she'll be able to take souls at will by then.
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-10-15 15:42
1. Do you think the BTD will return or is it isolated to Superior? What was its purpose?
I think the answer to that is not clear yet. It might be a side effect or something TD released intentionally. Maybe after two episodes we are not meant to know everything yet? ;)

2. So we know Amara eats souls, will she eat the Winchesters?
Not Dean's but I don't think Dean would be happy if "it" what ever it is would go after Sam.

3. What is Dean’s relationship to her?
Still to determined. Maybe bound because he had the mark. Or she has the hots for him (who would blame her) or Amara is their child some way. Don't ask me. Heard that theory out there.

4. Why do the angels hate Castiel?
Yeah, because of everything really...

5. What is Crowley’s end game?
Crowley, but I think he will notice that TD eats ALL souls. Even demony souls what ever they are.

6. What did you think of Billie and her prediction? Also, wasn't her voice simply beautiful and haunting? I loved that sequence so much.
Loved every bit of her and I wish her to come back and maybe ally the Winchesters later?

Loved the episode but why oh why they needed to kill Jenna? They could have send her to space, moon, where ever. At least she would have stayed alive. And, krhm, killing Hannah was NOT cool either. I rather liked her in that vessel. Now only dick angels are out there. (not in a good way) and Cas has none of his kin by his side. I say, keep him with TFW then. Heaven can go "pliip" itself. :P
I don't like children/babies as monsters because they creep me the hell out. (Not a good reason. I know because it is the point)

Still exited for the season. Loved Sam surviving on his own. Even if he doesn't tell he was infected. Hellooooooo Sam, the reaper prediction! And Dean, tsk, you are bound to TD. *slaps to the back of his head* Anyway, and more references towards the cage! Love it.

- Lilah
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 17:08
Actually Crowley is the only one who DOSEN'T have anything to worry about as far as Amara is concerned because he doesn't have a soul. That was established in that auction episode when he tried to sell his non-existent soul to buy Kevin who was up for action along with the tablet. He must be feeling pretty good right about now. Even his minions have corrupted souls that she may want, but Crowley is in no danger from her (that we know of yet anyway).
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-10-15 17:18
Aye, he doesn't have a soul but he has the red smoke thingy essence. What if Amara can eat that too? Maybe souls are not only things that she can eat. Maybe angel essence etc. too?

- Lilah
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 17:31
True and maybe that stuff is worth more than 100 human souls. Maybe we'll finally find out who or what Crowley actually is!! ;)
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 17:10
Oooh yes, creepy babies are creepy. It was especially creepy when they did that CGI age thing on her too. Ick!
Lilah_Kane
# Lilah_Kane 2015-10-15 17:17
I think nothing has horrified me as much as that face change for a while. (It was done really well, yikes)

- Lilah
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-15 18:29
Loved the use of the blocks. Creepy baby is creepy.

Just realized the age Amara is now is just about the same as the girl in the original "The Bad Seed". I'm sure by the end of the episode she'll be older but still... Ep 3! Dean in a Hawaiian shirt and a hat! Why? Wonder what Sam will don. Mmmm trunks ala Jared frolicking in Brazil? ;) I can just hear Jensen now - "Alright, settle down!!!"
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 20:25
Do you mean these trunks?


And then of course, this happened......

How anyone can look so smoking hot in such a weird outfit.......?: o
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 22:07
Now if only we had a picture of swim trunk Sam tied up- see if you can find something like that, E! :D
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-16 00:44
Oh yeah!

I like that one con where a fan asked Jensen how he manages to stay out of the tabloids like that and he said that he doesn't go shirtless on a beach... in BRAZIL!!! Jareds response was that he had to "frolic"! Frolic away Mr. Padalecki. Frolic away.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-15 20:29
Just sitting here wondering what the title "Form and Void" was referring to? Amara is "formed" and the void is The Empty that Billie referred to? Even the titles seem more meaningful (at least so far) this season. I think Sugarhi was right on the money thinking that that one passing comment that Bille made about The Empty will come back to be a major development later on in the season. She's pissed now, but I'll bet that the Winchesters will win her over to their side before long.
samandean10
# samandean10 2015-10-15 22:09
Quote:
I'll bet that the Winchesters will win her over to their side before long.
I don't know- she did a great job resisting some serious puppy dog eyes in this ep!
iamsam1013
# iamsam1013 2015-10-15 22:27
Genesis 1:2 - "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." Agree about Amara being "formed" and the void being the empty. Sam prayed and was given a sign, so that could be God hovering. Seems to fit quite well.
iamsam1013
# iamsam1013 2015-10-15 22:06
I really liked this episode. Loved how quickly it moved between the storylines. After some of last season's choppiness, that is a very welcome change! Sam's storyline was great. I prefer the brothers together, but if they have to be apart, this is the way to do it. I think that Sam's "sign" from the visions is definitely leading him to Lucifer. Lucifer means light-bringer, so it makes perfect sense that he would have a hand in destroying the Darkness. Holy oil/fire destroyed the BTD. Light is greater than Darkness.
Russ
# Russ 2015-10-16 01:38
Two decent episodes in a row. What the hell is happening! :o
AlyCat22
# AlyCat22 2015-10-16 02:05
Don't get too excited, we still have the Nep Duo script to get thru next week. Fingers crossed that after how many seasons they have finally figured out how to write a, if not great, at least a really good one! But yay! Ackles at the helm so that will be good!
Suzkatoon75
# Suzkatoon75 2015-10-16 02:43
Ackles always does the best he can with the material he has. I can think a lot of writers I would like Jensen to direct but I guess he is stuck with the duo if he keeps directing always the third episode.
BoGirle
# BoGirle 2015-10-16 06:28
Yeah... poor Jensen, imagine what he could do with a Robert Berens script...
Russ
# Russ 2015-10-16 08:58
In reply to AlyCat22,

There's a reason, "they" wrote one episode in season 1, then never returned until after Kripke left in season 6.

You, Suzkato on75, and BoGirle, all also put way too much faith into the "directing" of each episode. I know Jensen will direct it, but it's all by committee. There may be a nuance or two that creeps through, but on Supernatural, all directors are mere guests. They're not there for flare & style. It's all about efficiency.

They're there to put each predetermined piece (the script) into place.

I wish I was more enthusiastic, but history gets the better of me.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2015-10-16 10:02
gotta agree with Russ.... a director can only work with the material they're given and you can only do so much with the pile of crap these particular writers call a script.
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2015-10-16 04:50
Hey Buddy, yes I am just going with the flow. No over analyzing & only watching clips.
I AM YEARS YOUNGER & ANGST FREE.....:):):) :):):):):):)
Russ
# Russ 2015-10-16 09:15
My Lady!

Keep away from the clips and it's even better. That's how I do. No spoilers, synopsis's, teasers, or trailers. I even keep away from speculative pre_episode posts on this site.

Glad you're back in the swing, and hope all is well. It should be now your self admittedly years younger.

;););)
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2015-10-16 13:00
After a long time...Absolute ly loved the two parter.The second part (episode) made the first part better (episode). Hope the quality of the episodes continue to remain the same or become better down the line.
Tealka
# Tealka 2015-10-16 14:29
Great write-up and questions. Thank you!

1. I get the impression that the BTD isn't caused by the Darkness. Amara protected Dean from the Smoke; he, in turn, protected her from those infected by it. Whatever the Smoke is, I'm guessing it's out to get the Darkness, so--unless the Smoke has another weapon in store--it's likely we'll see the BTD again, especially since "Billie" and God inspired Sam with the cure.

2. Like others here, I think Amara might threaten to eat Sam's soul at some point, but not Dean's. She told us as much with those baby eyes.

3. Death said Amara is amoral; she also seems clueless about existence and humans. She may be convinced that Dean must be an ally of the Darkness simply because he broke the lock and freed her. She has a lot to learn.

4. Maybe the angels hate Castiel because he killed uncounted numbers of them, stole angelic souls, and freed Metatron who caused angels to fall from heaven like flies. On the other hand, maybe he just bores the hell out of them. I can relate.

5. What is Crowley's end game? Given his history, I think those who say he's after power and influence have the right answer, but I wish the writers would be a bit more creative.

6. As for Billie, I think she's ever-living Death in drag. At least, I hope so. :)

Interesting about the oil, by the way. It struck me as odd that Dean put that ancient-looking jar in the duffel. Could SN's God have inspired him to do that the way God seems to have inspired Sam to understand Billie's clue?