WARNING!!!!  If you haven't seen the Season 8 finale yet, read no further!  There will be LOTS of spoilers and discussion about the episode, and trust me, you want to see it for yourself first.  If you've watched, then come in and let's talk about what happened.


Was that not incredible?  I enjoyed the whole episode, but the last 10 minutes were SO GOOD.  All of the angels falling from heaven.  That is so insane.  And awesome.  And horrible and beautiful and lots of adjectives.  But mostly it was unexpected.  Raise your hand if you thought the angels were all going to fall from heaven because I want to high five you right now.

Don't get me wrong.  As much as I enjoyed the finale, there are still a lot of questions and holes and continuity errors in Season 8 that haven't been sufficiently explained for me.  Maybe we'll get some answers in season 9.  (And man, it feels good to know there's a season 9)  But I'll let those slide for now.  Perhaps I'll revisit them again when it's closer to the start of the new season.  For now, let's talk about some of the questions tonight's episode raises.  Boy, I've never wished I could have a rewatch before I write these articles more than tonight.  Whatever, let's do this and wildly speculate anyway!

Questions To Mull Over During the Long Hellatus
1.  So is Metatron up in heaven all alone with a bunch of souls?  That is a scary thought.  Presumably he worked it out somehow so that he wouldn't get expelled from heaven when the rest of the angels were cast out.  And God only cast out one angel.  Metatron cast out thousands.  Do you think God is going to make him answer for his crimes?  Or will it be Castiel that makes Metatron pay?
2.  What does the angel tablet actually say about trials?  Can it help re-open the gates of heaven?  And if Metatron wrote the tablets, won't he know how to subvert whatever's on them, if he has to?
3.  Sam was filling with energy during the trials, so what's going to happen to that energy now?  He was supposed to just be the conductor, pouring the energy into Crowley to cure him and get himself killed in the process.  So what happens now?  Also, why are his hands always getting patched up by Dean?  Stigmata references?  Something else?
4.  How pissed is Abaddon going to be when she comes back next year?
5.  Since when does jamming a drill into the back of an angel's head kill it?  Do you think Naomi was really dead or just incapacitated before getting expelled from heaven?  Are all those angels going to have their memories intact since they didn't choose to fall and become human?  How guilty is Cass going to feel about the angels being cast from heaven, too?  Very guilty is my guess.  Will the other angels blame him?  Will he be hunted again?
6.  What else would set off the alarms in the bunker like that, do you think?  The mass demon exodus at the end of season 2?
7.  If God is all-knowing, etc, why would he choose Metatron as his scribe if He knew Metatron was going to go batty and expel all the angels from heaven?  (These sort of things make my brain melt)

The Lucifer Theory
I can't write a review without some sort of theory, right?  Here's tonight's: Kevin is going to translate the angel tablet next season, and it's going to reveal a way to open heaven again.  And that way is they will have to retrieve Lucifer and send him back to heaven.  How poetic would that be, right?  To restore the fallen angels to heaven you first need to restore the first fallen angel.  So they'll have to get Lucifer out of the box (and oh, hey, maybe Adam while they're at it) which is why hell didn't get closed this season.  It needs to be open for next season!

And now it's time to bullet point the rest of the episode.

  • The "Carry On Wayward Son" montages are the best, though.
  • "It's not a date till I've cried." Jody, please don't be dead.  Do NOT bring back another awesome female character just to kill her off, show!  Don't you do it.
  • Yes, Jody, he is hot.  He's Mark Sheppard.  I mean, clearly he's hot.
  • No more killing.  Aw, Cass.
  • NOOOOOOOOO, surprise Bobby feels.  The salvage yard survived the fire, huh?  That is good to know.
  • I like the severe camera angles they use in Naomi's place.
  • I adore Crowley's love of gigantic scrolls.
  • Dean is WAY more used to getting punched, Crowley.  There's no way you're gonna win that fight.
  • Wet paint is easy to scuff, though, so maybe dry off the floor before you paint that devil's trap under Crowley?  No?
  • DID WE NOT LEARN ABOUT WALKING AWAY FROM DEMONS LAST EPISODE, GUYS????
  • "Why did the scribe suddenly come in from the shadows?"  I liked that line a lot, don't know why.
  • That was a great "He's right behind me, isn't he?" look on Dean's face when Sam walked up behind him as he was telling Cass Sam needed a babysitter.
  • "You really think injecting me with human blood is going to make me human.  What, did you read that on the back of a cereal box?"
  • Noo, is Mrs. Tran really dead?  Noo.  Stop killing off all the lady characters, show!
  • Ooh, the crucifix in the church with just the hands and feet is CREEPY.  And that was a cool set.
  • Stop being smart, Crowley!  No biting Sam to try and escape.  Also, Sam, go get a rabies shot just in case.
  • Crowley singing David Bowie makes my life.
  • "Hello, boys."  "That's my line."
  • "Talk first, stab later."
  • Cupid's bow was so cute!
  • Metatron, you little shit.  You've been planning your revenge for so long now.  And look how well it fell into place for you.
  • Crowley should have a monologue in every episode.
  • Mark Sheppard KILLED this episode.  Losing his accent in the big monologue, then the scene where he asks Sam where to look for forgiveness. 
  • Naomi, this is what happens when you torture people and manipulate them.  No one believes you when it counts.  And this was the one time when you really needed everyone to believe you.  Because you were right.
  • "If you finish this trial, you're dead."  "So?"  No, that wasn't a painful line at all.  Nope.
  • Metatron took Cass' grace for a story.  That little shit.
  • How about that whole conversation between Sam and Dean, though, huh?  Glorious.
  • That ending, though.  Sam is still sick.  Castiel is human, and not by his choosing.  The angels are falling from the sky.  What a cliffhanger.

Whew, what a season.  It had some ups and downs, but overall I liked it a lot.  I'm looking forward to watching it all again.  Anyway, tell me what you thought of the finale.  Were you satisfied?  Disappointed?  Can't wait for the Hellatus to be over already?  Let's talk about it!

Comments  

eilf
# eilf 2013-05-16 00:14
Been reading reviews and I can already see that none of them (and maybe a huge proportion of the fandom?) see that Sam and Dean moment from the same angle I do. But that is ok. I will just ignore all of them and live in my own happy little world. The end of the season is, like the rest of it, all about perception.

That was a great episode. I really liked it. The entire cast was fantastic and the writing was some of the best all season.

Maybe Season 9 can now hit the ground running? That would be fun. (Fun? What is this 'fun' of which you speak?).
novi
# novi 2013-05-16 00:15
Wasn't it a gem?
m1tchells
# m1tchells 2013-05-16 00:27
OMG! So incredibly good! Breathtaking moments...
1) Singer Salvage Yard (totally lost it right there),
2) Sam/JP and Crowley/MS (both are always so amazing but truly took my breath away tonight), and
3) the Broments. There are no words....

Night all!! Wiped out...
CH
# CH 2013-05-16 00:29
On the first watch, I was left raging with emotions. I didn't know how to feel about it. This was a weird finale, no doubt. But after an immediate rewatch, it was easier to accept and take in all that's happened.

Not the best season finale, but I think it was decent enough. And the cliffhanger leaves open so many possibilities. So I'll definitely be tuning in for season nine.
MetamorphicRocks
# MetamorphicRocks 2013-05-16 00:34
All I can say is, despite this season not being perfect, if the point of telling stories is to make the audience feel something, then in my opinion this finale completely succeeded. I rarely cry watching TV or movies, even with SPN. There have only been a handful of episodes where I did. But the Crowley forgiveness scene and the Sam and Dean scene were gutwrenching.

Mark Sheppard and Jared conveyed the agony their characters were feeling in a heart breaking way. And that may have been the best brother moment yet (at least one of the best of all time).

And despite conflict with the brothers in the first part of the season, there have been no other seasons where we got four- yes, four- Winchester hugs! Not a bad way to end the season at all!
fanotheboyz
# fanotheboyz 2013-05-16 00:35
It was wonderful! Fantastic writing. Mark Sheppard and the boys hit it out of the park. Excellent writing by Carver. I loved all your points, too. Not sure how the drill killed Naomi unless it was a drill made from a melted angel blade...could be.

Ok, I don't know that we KNOW the angels are now human. They are banished from heaven and 'fell', but are they powerless? I don't think we know yet. I too wonder if Metatron is just up there in heaven with all the good souls, making them tell him their 'stories'!

I think Sam will heal because he stopped glowing, then got that pain, then seemed able to regroup a little. I am curious as to what happens to Crowley. He was 'mostly' cured, contrite, sort of human. Does he go back to being a full demon again, or will he wish to be cured and try to find a way? Maybe Keving will be able to find a loophole on the demon tablet so they can finish curing Crowley. It would be fun to see, and he could go back to being deliciously evil later!

I think Jodi survived because Crowley had to keep the deal, so I suspect she stopped choking and came back in to dinner, wondering where her date went. At least I hope so.

I loved seeing the junk yard and Bobby's car...awww. So sad.

I loved the brother talk/cry/hug. Can these guys pull that stuff off or what?

I still just have to say that there are a lot of unanswered questions: Who was manipulating/wa tching Sam at the beginning when he left Amelia's. Who told Benny where the portal was to get Dean out? Where did the bread crumbs about 'perception' lead? Nowhere? To me, it would have been some sort of AU or mind-trick happening, but no, it never came to that. Did anyone else feel we were purposefully misled?

And how 'bout that Metatron? I called evil on him when I saw him. Too nice and unassuming. Cas trusted him way too easily. So glad Cas talked to Dean this episode and leveled with him.

I just loved it and I can't wait to see it again. It will be so hard to wait until October to see what happens!

Thanks for your great review!
BookLady
# BookLady 2013-05-16 00:37
Loved it, especially the last 15 minutes or so.

Again, we got Sam's point of view, not just Dean's. So, maybe Carver can write for Sam, too, not just Edlund. That would be encouraging.

Love this director. He always hit some comical notes, especially with Dean, even in the darkest and most suspenseful episodes. The whole cast gave amazing performances from beginning to end. Some of the camera angles, the way the camera moved - awesome, just awesome!

Yes, that cross was creeepy!

Good night.
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-05-16 01:20
OK, am I crazy for thinking this?

The ending of tonight's finale shows all the angels "falling" to earth and becoming human . . . Bobby Singer was recently rescued from Hell and sent to Heaven to be an angel . . .

Does this mean that SPN has found a way to bring Bobby back as a human??????!!!
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-05-16 01:53
I don't think Bobby is an angel just because he went to heaven. I believe that his soul is in heaven but angels are a separate species than humans and humans do not become angels.
winmomwannabe
# winmomwannabe 2013-05-16 02:37
I said this before and I'll say it again. Bobby's soul in heaven is going to come in handy at some point!!! He's not ready to sit in a rocking chair. I bet he'll be doing some hunting up there!!! :)
FMJemena
# FMJemena 2013-05-16 05:47
Maybe he'll start a guerilla group with all the human souls up there?
kaj
# kaj 2013-05-17 01:31
Wow, I have a thought. Last year Ellen made a connection with a psychic to give Dean a kick in the ass.
Perhaps next year Bobby can contact a psychic too?
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-05-17 22:58
Quote:
OK, am I crazy for thinking this?

Does this mean that SPN has found a way to bring Bobby back as a human??????!!!


H-m-m-m-m . . . guess I am not the only one thinking this . . . http://screenrant.com/supernatural-season-9-bobby/
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-16 01:25
Wow, just wow. I need to rewatch but for now I am still processing the incredible last 10 minutes or so. My first impression is that it was a great finale. I choose to savor the wonderful scenes between Sam and Dean and Sam and Crowley, for now. I will look at things a little more in depth tomorrow.
dashnjo
# dashnjo 2013-05-16 01:25
What just happened? I loved the brothers moment at the end ... had me sobbing! Cas is human? Actually, that I thought would happen but I thought it would be his choice not Metatron's. hope Dean's okay with him not coming to help when he called him since he kinda can't zap anywhere anymore! Was Crowley cured? My hubby and I thought it all looked too easy and he might have been playing them but then again, maybe not. Please say that Jody lived! They didn't show it but I was screaming at Dean to say I surrender so hope so! Need to watch it again ... it's going to be a long summer. Luckily, it's summer and there's beaches to comb and camping to be done so it'll be fine!
Rhonda Benedict
# Rhonda Benedict 2013-05-16 01:45
Took a while to regroup...that finale left me reeling. At first all I could say was INSANE...now that I've had time to calm down and breathe I have to honestly say this one got to me.

That scene with Dean and Cas at the bar: Is it wise to be drinking on the job? What show are you watching? Definite meta moment, and funny. One of things I love about SPN is how they work the humor in to leaven all the serious stuff.

Does anyone else think that Sam dosing Crowley with his own purified blood might be kickstarting Crowley's long lost humanity back into gear? When he started asking Sam where to even begin looking for forgiveness..di d that not sound like a SAM question??? Just wondering...

I have to say I wasn't surprised by Dean's reaction to the news that Sam would die if he finished the Trial. Despite Dean swearing that 'Nothing!' would stop them from closing down Hell...we've heard that speech before, in various versions. And every single time, when it means something bad happening to Sammy, Dean goes haywire and calls a screeching halt to things. Dean cannot function in a world without Sam, it's been proven time and time again. Same for Sam...everyone thought it was wrong that he didn't go looking for Dean during his time in Purgatory...wit h the disclosure of his Confession, that he considered his biggest sin to be letting Dean down over and over, I hope, now, everyone can finally see that Dean is Sam's whole world, brother/father/ best friend.. without Dean, Sam is lost.

Watching all the angels falling to earth, their wings burning away...I think they're mortal now. Whether they retain their angelic memories or not?....is an interesting thing I hope they explore in season 9. How is Cas's fall/mortality going to change his relationship with the brothers? Another very interesting thing I really hope they answer.

And with Crowley basically incommunicado at the moment, who's going to take over Hell? Abaddon? Let's face it, Abaddon was shocked to learn that Crowley was calling himself The King of Hell. She thought Dean was joking at first, remember? When she walked into that church and slugged Crowley, you could tell she was positively seething by that point. As a Demon Knight, she outranks him so to her, a 'salesman' as she called him, styling himself the King of Hell was insulting. Will be interesting to see what Abaddon does next.

And Metatron. Pretending to be so unassuming and helpful... very slick manipulation there. Then again, he's had eons to work on his revenge plans. Interesting how he feels that Naomi and the archangels forced him to flee Heaven. If I recall, when he was first telling his tale of woe to the brothers, he said he left BEFORE any of them said or did anything really...basica lly he ratted on himself, but in all the eons he spent walled up with books and stories, I honestly think he rearranged things in his own mind and convinced himself that THEY were to blame for everything, right down to 'forcing him to flee' and 'keeping him away from home'...almost like a spoiled child. And if he really DID sit at God's feet and took dictation, of course he was spoiled!! He had been singled out for something important, and what child DOESN'T think that something like that makes them 'special', so when it ends they will find someone or something to blame for losing that 'specialness' and no longer being a favored child.
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-05-16 14:05
Really, really good points.
Great episode.96myk
Alice
# Alice 2013-05-16 01:53
So much to process! I swear we're going to need the entire Hellatus to figured it all out. Going on canon I would say the fallen angels will be like Anna. They have their power, but they are weakened. Eventually they will turn human. I believe the same thing happened to Castiel in S5. As for Cas, considering his grace and essence was taken, it's possible he's human. We won't know for sure until next season.

Hee, the angels will have to learn to live like the humans. That'll teach them for forgetting that they're supposed to be our guardians.

As for Sam, yikes! He didn't look like he was getting all that better, was he? No angel healing either. I wonder if the first episode of S9 will be showing his long, slow recovery.

I loved it all. And I think Carver tied in the Sam not looking for Dean perfectly. Sam was willing to sacrifice himself and finish the trials just because he didn't want to be a disappointment to Dean anymore. Wibble! He does feel guilty. He was hurt by the fact that Dean turned to Benny for support. It didn't make sense in prior episodes, but it did here.

As I said, a lot to absorb. Farewell Naomi! You had to go. It was your time. At least you went out doing the right thing.
FMJemena
# FMJemena 2013-05-16 06:08
Will Sam become a warrior angel now?
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-05-16 14:09
Why would he?
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-05-16 01:56
What a great finale.
Great acting, directing, script, effects.
Wow.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-05-16 02:20
Questions for certain and maybe it was a good finale in some ways. However I am still trying to understand how it has become Sam's fault he was souless? .
luciano
# luciano 2013-05-16 03:28
After all that, that small point stuck with you lol. He let Lucifer out in the first place thus him losing his soul is his own doing
VyperDD
# VyperDD 2013-05-16 06:05
Quote:
After all that, that small point stuck with you lol. He let Lucifer out in the first place thus him losing his soul is his own doing
Sorry, but with all due respect, that is utter rubbish. When Sam sacrificied his life by taking in Lucifer and jumping into the pit, he made Dean promise not to try to get him out. He was fully prepared to spend eternity in hell with Lucifer to make up for freeing him in the first place.
He never asked to be saved. He didn't want to be rescued. He made that perfectly clear. There is only 1 'person' responsible for Sam losing his soul and that is Cas.
Cas is the only one to blame for that, not Sam.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-05-16 10:09
Quote:
After all that, that small point stuck with you lol. He let Lucifer out in the first place thus him losing his soul is his own doing
Really ? I cannot agree with this at all . Freeing Lucifer and Castiel pulling him out soulless are two different things and the latter Sam did not ask for or had any control over.
VyperDD
# VyperDD 2013-05-16 06:10
Quote:
Questions for certain and maybe it was a good finale in some ways. However I am still trying to understand how it has become Sam's fault he was souless? .
Quote:
Questions for certain and maybe it was a good finale in some ways. However I am still trying to understand how it has become Sam's fault he was souless? .
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing myself. I guess it's there for Dean to bring up whenever he wants to critisize Sam about letting him down and not being trustworthy.

I really, really disliked, almost detested, Dean for saying that. It just proves, to me at least, that Dean is never going to forgive Sam for not being perfect.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-16 12:27
Neither one is perfect. There has been a lot of complaining this year about how Sam has been portrayed. Written. I am not sure why Sam being soulless is always thrown into the mix of Sam's supposed sins but I agree that Dean wouldn't or shouldn't hold Sam responsible for that. Why isn't the writing taken into account in this case? No, it is just Dean being unforgiving, and for that he needs to be detested??? He does hold a grudge. Character flaw, yes. But until this year it has never been shown that Dean thought it was Sam's fault that he was soulless. I choose to use the same excuse that it is a bad writing choice. It is, and always was, fairly obvious that Dean loves Sam above all else. That's ok. I choose to love both of these characters in spite of, and because of their flaws. Sam has made some bad choices but I always saw his point of view and why he made those decisions. Dean has a petty side and a sharp tongue but I have NEVER doubted his love for Sam, or Sam's for Dean. This scene perfectly illustrated that. My thought is that Dean never fully realized how much his brother has been hurt. Dean gets hurt too. Sam keeps it in and Dean lashes out. Maybe that will all change for the better.
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-17 17:58
Quote:
Neither one is perfect. There has been a lot of complaining this year about how Sam has been portrayed. Written. I am not sure why Sam being soulless is always thrown into the mix of Sam's supposed sins but I agree that Dean wouldn't or shouldn't hold Sam responsible for that. Why isn't the writing taken into account in this case? No, it is just Dean being unforgiving, and for that he needs to be detested??? He does hold a grudge. Character flaw, yes. But until this year it has never been shown that Dean thought it was Sam's fault that he was soulless. I choose to use the same excuse that it is a bad writing choice. It is, and always was, fairly obvious that Dean loves Sam above all else. That's ok. I choose to love both of these characters in spite of, and because of their flaws. Sam has made some bad choices but I always saw his point of view and why he made those decisions. Dean has a petty side and a sharp tongue but I have NEVER doubted his love for Sam, or Sam's for Dean. This scene perfectly illustrated that. My thought is that Dean never fully realized how much his brother has been hurt. Dean gets hurt too. Sam keeps it in and Dean lashes out. Maybe that will all change for the better.
Hey, Leah! I think I posted somewhere (?) that what some see as Dean being petty and unforgiving, I see as Dean being hurt so deeply that it has stayed with him even though he thought he was over it. Then it comes out at the worst times.

I myself have been hurt that bad and have done the very same thing, which is why I can see Dean doing this instead of being merely petty. I hear myself saying something and then I am filled with guilt, because I hurt the other person in what they think is just spitefulness.

I think there may be more than one way to view people's actions. Yes, Dean's, but regular people's too. His actions, written the way I see them, aren't as uncommon as you might think.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-17 19:12
Hey l2b, I think it is a defense mechanism. I personally don't view Dean as a petty person at all but his first instinct (sometimes) when his feelings are hurt is to strike out. He is a very forgiving person when the dust settles. Though what he views as betrayal stays with him a bit longer. I don't see his actions as uncommon in the least, he and Sam are so very human, with understandable reactions. :-)
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-17 19:15
oops double post!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-18 00:47
I have to admit Dean saying that really ticked me off but st50 said she thought, and after thinking about it I have to agree, that he meant it to be teasing, just to lighten the situation, the whole we're over this now so we can joke about it thing, not realizing that this was striking at the heart of Sam's fears and doubts. And it that wasn't Carver's intent I never want to know about it.

Given the situation that is really the only acceptable answer for me really. Dean does hold onto resentment and people's past mistakes(and he's human, he's flawed that's okay), but to use them against Sam in that moment would be too far for me. Luckily st50, elif and Leah talked me down. :D

And I don't really think that Dean does hold Sam responsible for what his soulless body did but we often hold onto subconscious resentments that we're not even aware of. So the SC didn't bother me near as much because he was controlled by the specter and not thinking rationally.
E
# E 2013-05-18 07:53
I agree with you Kelly, I too took it as teasing because that was the only way that I could stomach what he was saying too. And Sam did say that he had no idea where to even start with his confession and Dean asked him if he wanted suggestions and Sam said yes. So in some ways Sam asked for it, and he had to have been pretty sure what was coming.

And I get that Dean was very much hurt by what Sam did with Lilith and Ruby and his role in raising Lucifer and he had reason to be. And maybe on some level those things still reach out and give him a zap from time to time. So in that way I can understand his lingering anger despite the fact that Sam sacrificed himself to atone for those mistakes. But the soulless thing... geez Dean has zero call to feel hurt by that. I get that dealing with soulless Sam was difficult for Dean but Sam had no clue what was going on with him at that time and couldn't do anything about it even when he was made aware. And I am sorry, but I disagree with a few other posters here that it is just a reflection of his deep hurt because Dean has no right to feel hurt or wronged by the soulless situation. Sam was so blameless for the whole soulless thing that it DOES make Dean look petty and unforgiving IMO when he brings it up and lumps it together with things Sam actually did wrong like Lilith, Ruby and Lucifer. I am still not sure why the soulless issue is put together with the other issues as they are not the same thing.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-05-18 08:20
That is my problem . Dean's feelings over the other things I can understand but not the soullness . It is like blame for blame's sake .
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-18 11:58
E and Kelly and Sharon, taken in context, it would have made no sense at all if suddenly Dean took a deliberate swipe at Sam. He had been fussing over and worried about Sam for weeks. He had expressed how he had no doubt Sam would succeed. He has been unfailingly supportive and dare I say sweet to Sam recently. Now why would he suddenly bash Sam right at the finish line? His whole demeanor said "teasing". Not funny, but also not meant to hurt Sam.

As to why the soulless thing has been lumped in all season, I think is was a bad writing choice, as was a few other things earlier this year that didn't make sense.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-18 16:42
Oh I agree with you, Leah. Although I knew he was kind of teasing when I originally watched it, but I thought it was mean-spirited tease. But you're absolutely right, given Dean's attitude from the last few episodes the only explanation that makes sense is that he thought Sam would understand that he didn't mean any of it. But this is still and still extremely sore point with Sam so that is not how he took it

Like I said, bringing up soulless thing in the SC rant didn't really bother me that much because people are often aware that they are holding on to a irrational resentment until something happens to bring it to the surface. But if the writers truly lumping that in with his past mistakes though Dean I will be pissed. Yes I think he has done enough to more than atoned for his past mistakes so I do think that Dean should start trusting him again but that one REALLY bothers me because the real Sam was still being tortured even if his body was up here.
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-16 06:27
Replying to Sharon.
X
Yeah, me too!
X
It's a slap in the face to both brothers when the writers make Dean say that it was Sam's fault he was soulless.
X
A slap to Sam who is the victim here , having been pulled out of the Cage without his soul through no fault of his own, but by the carelessness of Castiel ( who maybe just really wanted Sam's powerful soul for his own use ).
Sam himself didn't even realise that something was wrong with him.
X
It's also a slap in the face and an insult to Dean who is as intelligent as his brother, and would in no way hold Sam responsible for something that anyone can see was not his little brother's fault.
Dean should be hitting on Castiel whose fault it truly was and on Bobby too, who knew Sam was out of the Cage but neglected to mention it to his mourning big brother.
X
prix68
# prix68 2013-05-16 07:14
Not guilty for being soulless but for the things he did when he was soulless. Remember when Sam got his soul back and started to remember things, he said he needed to make things he did while soulless right as much as he could. Dean told Sam he wasn't responsible but Sam felt he was and to some extent so did Bobby.
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-16 07:24
Replying to prix68.
X
If Sam was without his soul then he didn't have the ethical or moral judgment or sensibility to judge whether his actions were right or wrong.
We could compare him to a bear who acts out of pure instinct, without the ability to feel pity for his prey.
X
In this optic, Sam has NO blame for what he did without a soul. The fact that he now feels he needs to try and repair the wrongs he did back then, is due to having that soul back, along with all the moral implications involved.
X
The same thing applies to Bobby.
Sam was acting out of logic and self-preservati on, two things that obviously do not come from having a soul, but from our intellict and instinct.
racestaffer-unlogged
# racestaffer-unlogged 2013-05-16 09:15
Only a still unrevealed "secret story" makes sense for me of the way Dean keeps blaming Sam for losing his soul. I mean, I know Dean's not perfect, but how can he tell Sam not to feel guilty for what he did when soulless then repeatedly blame him for losing his soul? As complex as we humans can be, that really dances on the precipice of unbelievability ... unless there's a hidden explanation. If it's not code talking, the best I can conjure is that Sam and Dean are guardian angels. In such a case, Sam losing "his soul" would be akin to a parent losing a child... like in the mall or whatever. That... you were an inattentive parent kind of "losing a child."
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-16 09:30
Quote:
Only a still unrevealed "secret story" makes sense for me of the way Dean keeps blaming Sam for losing his soul. I mean, I know Dean's not perfect, but how can he tell Sam not to feel guilty for what he did when soulless then repeatedly blame him for losing his soul? As complex as we humans can be, that really dances on the precipice of unbelievability... unless there's a hidden explanation. If it's not code talking, the best I can conjure is that Sam and Dean are guardian angels. In such a case, Sam losing "his soul" would be akin to a parent losing a child... like in the mall or whatever. That... you were an inattentive parent kind of "losing a child."
X
Agreed.
Although I can't really see there being any hidden reason for Dean insisting on this soulless thing, except to pull it out now and then to pump up the brother conflict.
It's just stupid to blame Sam for somethig he had absolutely no blame for.

As for Sam and Dean being guardian angels, I would just about be fine with anything at this point, but up until now in the SPN universe, angels don't have souls, so neither Sam nor Dean would have had one to begin with, at least for now! :)
prix68
# prix68 2013-05-16 11:30
isleofskye - Sam's intentions were good when he trusted Ruby, they were good when he killed Lillith, and he didn't purposely set Lucifer free or become soulless. That being said, confession is not about intentions, it's about actions. If you tell a lie, even for the right reason, it still must be confessed. Even though Cass did what he did for the right reasons, he knew he had to do penance for his misjudgements. The same would hold true for Dean if he was inclined to confess or anyone else for that matter. That doesn't make the confessor a bad person only one who is looking for absolution or purity from sins. Dean loves Sam above all else and of that I have no doubt but Dean is not perfect and is often tactless. Sam is not perfect either but he loves Dean and has the "little brother" syndrome of always trying to prove himself to his older brother. OMG the Winchester brothers are just regular humans doing an extraordinary job. The Sam vs Dean stuff really needs to end, it is tiresome.
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-16 11:48
reply to prix68.
X
Sam versus Dean stuff? Where did i mention that? I love both brothers equally, but I cetainly can't stand by when one of the two then gets accused injustly.

Both Sam and Dean have suffered and paid for any mistakes they have made and despite all the accusations that Carver has made them throw at each other this season, they have always loved and taken care of one another, and always will.
X
You speak of Castiel doing penance; if there is one character that has never suffered or made good for all the bad things he has done, that's Castiel; double-crossing , lying, betrayal, assassination of his best angel friends and colleagues. Decimating Heaven, hurting Sam and cruelly taking down his wall, etc etc. Nope, no penance there.
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-16 13:50
How has he never suffered or made good for the bad things he has done? Castiel chose to stay in Purgatory because he, himself didn't feel as if he had done enough penance. He still doesn't! He was just telling Metatron that he is trying to make up for all that he has done wrong. Yeah he was an ass, but he was trying to do good, he saw afterwards that he made a lot of mistakes..I don't think he will ever really forgive himself for 1.)Killing all those angels (especially Balthazar who was his friend) 2.) Listening to Crowley 3.)Letting out the Leviathan 4.)Getting Sam out but not his soul 5.) Breaking the Wall in Sam's head...6.)Losin g the Angel Tablet 7.)Not trusting Sam and Dean...now he helped Metatron kick all the angels out of Heaven...I think those are things that Castiel will always have in his head and not fully forgive himself for, no matter how much penance he did in Purgatory/good things he did on Earth. So if anything, I think Castiel suffers more because he's not asd easily forgiven as humans. (All Sam has to do is confess and be truly sorry and God will forgive him).
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-05-16 12:44
Quote:
However I am still trying to understand how it has become Sam's fault he was souless? .
I saw this differently. Back in Southern Comfort when Dean was possessed by that penny, he said "Not telling me that you lost your soul". That is what rubbed him wrong is the fact that Sam did not tell Dean there was something wrong not that he blamed him for losing his sole. JIMO
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-05-16 14:34
I agree with you, Trucklady. It is not that Sam lost his soul that Dean blames him for, but that, once again, Sam lied to
Dean about that and about Ruby and the demon blood and that seems to be a habit with Sam. Again and again Dean tries to get Sam to tell him the truth and Sam is always reluctant. If he were to tell Dean the truth, then, I am sure, Dean would try very hard to save Sam. But he can't if he doesn't know what is going on with Sam.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-05-16 14:44
Quote:
I agree with you, Trucklady. It is not that Sam lost his soul that Dean blames him for, but that, once again, Sam lied to
Dean about that and about Ruby and the demon blood and that seems to be a habit with Sam. Again and again Dean tries to get Sam to tell him the truth and Sam is always reluctant. If he were to tell Dean the truth, then, I am sure, Dean would try very hard to save Sam. But he can't if he doesn't know what is going on with Sam.
Sam didnt know he was soulless how could he tell Dean something he didnt know and again we are coming back round to it saying was Sam's fault because he was soulless but didnt tell Dean he was. Sorry I cannot go along with that.
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-05-16 19:24
Quote:
Quote:
I agree with you, Trucklady. It is not that Sam lost his soul that Dean blames him for, but that, once again, Sam lied to
Dean about that and about Ruby and the demon blood and that seems to be a habit with Sam. Again and again Dean tries to get Sam to tell him the truth and Sam is always reluctant. If he were to tell Dean the truth, then, I am sure, Dean would try very hard to save Sam. But he can't if he doesn't know what is going on with Sam.
Sam didnt know he was soulless how could he tell Dean something he didnt know and again we are coming back round to it saying was Sam's fault because he was soulless but didnt tell Dean he was. Sorry I cannot go along with that.
And here in this is not what I was trying to say. Of course Sam could not tell Dean he was soulless because he didn't know himself but he did know all along there was something wrong. What I said was Dean was pissed because Sam did not tell him he knew there was something wrong and the fact that he had been back for a year and never put Dean out of his misery thinking Sam was gone. The real problem here is the writers only have so much dialoge they can squeeze into the scene and sure it probably could have been worded differently then just saying "Not telling me that you lost your soul" but that wasn't the only issue Dean was stating so something had to give. I think referring to "lost your soul" is just an incident title and not a full explanation. Just my perception of the scene but then that is what this is all about.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-05-21 12:03
Quote:
What I said was Dean was pissed because Sam did not tell him he knew there was something wrong and the fact that he had been back for a year and never put Dean out of his misery thinking Sam was gone.
What I (we) am saying is Sam was soulless at that time for him to think about Dean like he would have if he had his soul.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-05-16 14:38
Quote:
"Not telling me that you lost your soul"
Which makes even LESS sense since how the heck was supposed to know he didn't have a soul? Cas said he didn't know Sam didn't have a soul until he examined Soulless!Sam. Soulless!Sam knew he was acting in ways that he didn't before, he told Samuel sometimes he wondered about himself, but really would the first thing that popped into your head if you weren't feeling anything be "I must not have my soul"? Dean is just hitting out because he was not happy that Sam came back soulless, but Sam didn't choose it, didn't know he had and when he got his soul back he went to try and find out what he had done when soulless to try and make up for his actions and DEAN told him not to look because it could hurt the wall.

Dean is way off base here, IMHO.
prix68
# prix68 2013-05-16 19:56
Percysowner - Sam didn't know he didn't have a soul but he knew he didn't need to sleep anymore and he knew he didn't feel any guilt about using innocent people to get the job done. In a nutshell, he kept all that secret. I don't think Dean meant that Sam knowingly did all this but in confession the reason behind the sin doesn't matter. In order to cleanse yourself of the sin you must confess it and seek atonement. Of course, without a priest to confess to, maybe the whole thing is a moot point. I think Dean was guilty of being tactless but not necessarily mean spirited and Sam's blood was apparently pure enough to cure the king of hell. So, it's all good for me.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-16 20:43
But if confession is about cleansing your soul and not your body if your soul wasn't there when the sins were committed then surely your soul hasn't been contaminated with them?
E
# E 2013-05-16 20:47
Yes, but without said soul Sam was incapable of determining anything pertaining to his own well being and how his actions affected others. He said he felt off, but not only could he not care all that much, he also couldn't really understand it either, because HE DIDN'T HAVE A SOUL. It's like a paralyzed man with a broken toe.... why would he care? Any emotional decision making, like putting Dean at ease, keeping or not keeping secrets, reflecting on his own state of being, determining if there was something different about himself and if it might be of concern to Dean or others was beyond Sam's ability because he was without a soul and the kind of moral compass and emotional insight having a soul entails. He cannot be held responsible for anything he did, didn't do, felt, didn't feel, decided or didn't decide while he was soulless as all of those decisions pertain to the kind of self analysis and insight that comes from an emotional connection to yourself and to others, which Sam did not have. Any blame that Dean levels at Sam for being soulless, for not knowing he was soulless or for not telling anyone that he was soulless just makes Dean look unreasonable IMO. His blaming Sam for Ruby and Lucifer, I get. This, not so much.

The purpose of the confession was for Sam to confess those things HE felt sorry for, responsible for, not for Dean to suggest what Sam SHOULD feel sorry for. Sam didn't ask for forgiveness for being soulless, or ruby or Lucifer or Lilith in his confession, he asked for forgiveness for letting Dean down, the only thing that has ever mattered to him.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-05-21 12:04
Quote:
Sam didn't know he didn't have a soul but he knew he didn't need to sleep anymore and he knew he didn't feel any guilt about using innocent people to get the job done. In a nutshell, he kept all that secret.
He was soulless.He does not feel the brotherly bond.That's it.Not telling Dean was the action of the soulless version not of Sam.It is very clear.
Sharon
# Sharon 2013-05-21 13:13
Quote:
Percysowner - Sam didn't know he didn't have a soul but he knew he didn't need to sleep anymore and he knew he didn't feel any guilt about using innocent people to get the job done. In a nutshell, he kept all that secret. I don't think Dean meant that Sam knowingly did all this but in confession the reason behind the sin doesn't matter. In order to cleanse yourself of the sin you must confess it and seek atonement. Of course, without a priest to confess to, maybe the whole thing is a moot point. I think Dean was guilty of being tactless but not necessarily mean spirited and Sam's blood was apparently pure enough to cure the king of hell. So, it's all good for me.
I dont think I would of been happy with any moment that had Sam confessing the sin of being soulless . Sam's soul was innocent therefore to confess a sin not of your doing would not sit comfortable with me. Soulless Sam acted in the nature of what he was , secrets and moral compassess wouldnt of meant very much to him that part of Sam's life was caused by someone elses actions not of Sam's delibrate thought .

Just how far do we go with Sam and what he should confess or feel guilt for? there are mistakes he has done but being soulless wasnt one of them.
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-05-16 02:23
Wow, wow, wow!!! (with 3 exclamation points) the last ten minutes made my BP and heart explode....
I'm amazed by the acting, I'm amazed by everything in this episode.
Just as I was finished thinking... why Metraton didn't disappear when the angels took him? Bang! it hit me... "bad guy"
Mark's acting, once again, superb!
This season Jared gave his best acting.
Jensen made a flawless, superb, awesome! transition to mature Dean, that I'm in love with him more than ever!
The scene with the brothers.... I'm still crying, I can believe how the tears where pouring out of my eyes!
The last part, the angels falling down, WOW!
I can only think on one theory. The Queen of Hell will be Abadon, Crowley will become the salesman again, since the fail cure left him kind of powerless and since only Abadon came to his call, that means she is controlling the other demons.
Great season! I think this season really brought back what we had lost the past two seasons, plus, we gained a bunker full of information and... A BUNKER! Thanks Guys. I can't wait for October!!! (with 3 exclamation points!)
Curlee
# Curlee 2013-05-16 02:47
Do you think Joshua was cast out of Heaven as well? He was the angel God talked to in "Dark side of the moon" and I've been wondering if maybe he is under God's personal protection?? If he is, and God wants the angels back in Heaven, maybe he could play a role in that. I really hope the fallen angels still have their memories, I don't want another case of "Emmanuel"!
Anna ripped out her grace, but still could hear the other angels, but I'm guessing since they are all human now there's no "angel radio" anymore? Otherwise they could at least communicate...? I hate that we have to wait for so long to get answers (or, more
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-16 03:15
Smash-hit finale. A gut-wrenching, creative, hell-of-an-endi ng to what has been (for me at least) a highly entertaining and emotionally engaging season.

A +!

God, that scene at the end. I haven't been that moved by a scene since S2. It truly felt like an emotional game-changer. I can't wait to see what character development it brings next season!
olivia forest
# olivia forest 2013-05-16 17:35
Amen sister!
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2013-05-16 03:17
Oh - totally called Cas becoming human, btw. I'm sure a few others were on this bandwagon too.

That wasn't a surprise - but Metatron going rogue, locking himself away in heaven and sending all the angels to earth - didn't he just do our boys a big favor? They should send him a fruit basket! No more angels, right? Except Metatron. But he doesn't scare me much.
racestaffer-unlogged
# racestaffer-unlogged 2013-05-16 09:18
Regarding Cas - Yes, if they value MC and his fanbase it was prudent to strip Cas of his powers. Plus, it does put us another step closer to "The End", huh?
racestaffer-unlogged
# racestaffer-unlogged 2013-05-16 09:25
Oh, and I only read half your post. Actually the finale made me a bit queasy because I'm thinking angels are going to be the new supernatural "race" the fellas will have to protect people from. Previously, angels had their Heaven, they either obeyed the rules and left people alone or they were too content at home to bother people. I'm thinking the angels will be the equivalent of technologically advanced European conquerors and humanity will be the indigenous people, "your not supposed to say indians."

AND... hmmmm... this may be why someone made sure one or both of the Winchesters is resistant to the Croatoan virus. Maybe that will be the angelic version of small pox.
racestaffer-unlogged
# racestaffer-unlogged 2013-05-16 09:38
Of course that begs the questions - Was Sam really the one whose immunity was being tested? If so, is reborn AND newly purified Sam still immune? Was Dean not tested for immunity? If not why not? Did the "testers" not care... or did they already know he was immune? Will Cas be immune? And as someone pointed out, this turn of events may give us Bobby back. At the moment, Bobby's loss seems to have been dealt with such that it wouldn't be a thorn in Dean's side that helps bring out the FutureDean personna. But if we get Bobby back we'd have the essential elements for a semi-prophetic The End. But maybe with Bobby and Cas playing the roles of WhiteSam and FutureDean, respectively?
racestaffer-unlogged
# racestaffer-unlogged 2013-05-16 10:13
Or... If Sam and Dean are guardian angels (per my other post) maybe the historical parallel will get a twist and the angelic conquistadors pick up disease from the natives. And someone was testing that one or both of the angel Winchesters wouldn't be susceptible...
racestaffer-unlogged
# racestaffer-unlogged 2013-05-16 10:20
This would also provide another practical reason for stripping Cas of his angelic status... otherwise he'd be susceptible...

I wonder if Cas will decide to try to fill Jimmy's shoes? If he becomes attached to the like Dean did with Lisa and Ben... and if he loses them like FutureDeam lost Bobby and Sam... maybe that will allow Cas to evolve into the replacement for FutureDean as we get even closer to The End.
racestaffer-unlogged
# racestaffer-unlogged 2013-05-16 10:35
Er, I should quit this unlogged posting! Sorry for the typos. But the reason I'm posting again is to broaden "the", not just to the intended "them" but to "Jimmy's wife and daughter." Cuz I'm wondering why the team highlighted Jodi's unhappy past?

Jodi lost her husband and son.
Jimmy has a wife and daughter "out there."

And Crowley lost someone too but didn't say who... and he's practically human, but not quite. Of course he could have been lying in order to get close enough to Jodi to slip her the hex bag... but I bet Crowley's story is going to parallel someone else's. But whose?
E
# E 2013-05-16 20:51
That was a good call Bamboo; it's really the only way to go with the character I think. If he's working with Sam and Dean and he's all powerful, his ability to fix any problem destroys all the dramatic tension. The only thing to do with him is to make him the big bad and let him keep his powers (been there, done that) or let him be with Sam and Dean as any ally and strip him of his powers so that the danger is real and not diffused by deus ex machina.
Bunyip
# Bunyip 2013-05-16 03:18
Somebody give JP and MS Emmy nominations please!
st50
# st50 2013-05-16 13:21
Thirded... Motion carried!
Moose Girl
# Moose Girl 2013-05-16 19:43
Fourthed. Is there such a word?? :-?
E
# E 2013-05-17 08:32
fifthed!
witch22
# witch22 2013-05-18 11:30
sixthed. ;-)
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-18 15:20
seventhed :D
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-16 03:54
What a colossal disappointment .
Nothing happened except for Castiel becoming human, something that was completely predictable and so boring. More angels, Yuck!
X
I only watch for Sam and Dean, brothers in arms until the bitter end.
No-one can ever take their place although in season nine, I'm sure we will see very little of them, perhaps as wall-paper or if we're liucky, five minutes per episode, strictly apart because being together in the one scene is something to treasure now.
Even when Sam is going to do the last trial on his own, Carver makes Dean go off and leave him, something that Dean would never have done before.
Oh, my sweet brothers. My heart weeps for you!
Moose Girl
# Moose Girl 2013-05-16 08:17
Speaking as one who also watches for Sam and Dean and their unique relationship - the one and only heart of the show as far as I'm concerned - I'm very worried about what MC becoming a regular in season 9 might signify. With all due respect to the legions of Castiel fans, but I hope Castiel doesn't take center stage, like I've seen happen before.
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-16 08:35
reply to Moose Girl
X
Agreed.
Sam and Dean are the heart of the show for me and I'm sure for many others.
There is no other show on tv that gives us brothers who would DIE and LIVE for each other.
I hate it when they are forced apart by cheap contrived brother conflict, which has happened for the majority of this season, especially in the first half but even now it insinuates it's way into these later episodes.
X
I don't know how next season will turn out but more Castiel means less brothers, as 40 minutes is 40 minutes and can't be stretched.
X
Supernatural under Carver will never again be the wonderful little show it was , when it was all about the brothers and we hung from their every word and glance and synchronised closing of the Impala's doors. Sigh!
X
Now we have to cut through the undergrowth of secondary characters to catch sight of the charismatic brothers.
Oh well, that's what fastforward is for, to jump to the brother moments. :)
Ale
# Ale 2013-05-16 12:31
Reallly? This season was ALL about Sam and Dean! JC could not have been clearer than this - Dean told Sam Sam comes first from EVERYTHING ELSE, and Sam said he was ready to give up EVERYTHING - his life, thus, his hope for a normal life, JUST TO NOT LET DEAN DOWN AGAIN. Oh, my poor heart!

JC cleared the problems they were having since S04! S08 was a redux of all those problems since S04.

I just can see why are you worried it is not clear enough JC knows is all about the brothers. They just don't need to be isolated. More good characters leads to more great scenes, like Sam and Crowley here. How awesome was that for character development? And this includes Sam, too, a marvelous new perspective of him. It does nothing but makes the show more rich.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-05-21 12:07
Quote:
Oh, my poor heart!
Lie down for some time.Quote:
This season was ALL about Sam and Dean!
The show is about Sam and Dean
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-16 11:39
Quote:
What a colossal disappointment .
Nothing happened except for Castiel becoming human, something that was completely predictable and so boring. More angels, Yuck!
X
I only watch for Sam and Dean, brothers in arms until the bitter end.
No-one can ever take their place although in season nine, I'm sure we will see very little of them, perhaps as wall-paper or if we're liucky, five minutes per episode, strictly apart because being together in the one scene is something to treasure now.
Even when Sam is going to do the last trial on his own, Carver makes Dean go off and leave him, something that Dean would never have done before.
Oh, my sweet brothers. My heart weeps for you!
I have to think, though, that if Dean hadn't left Sam, he would not have found out the consequences of what Sam was doing. Alone together Sam would have died.
Donna
# Donna 2013-05-16 03:57
I wonder... did this affect Michael and Lucifer? Or were they saved because they're in the super-safe box? I really expect them to come back. Hell, I expected the Cage to open in the finale!
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-21 13:08
It may turn out that being thrown out of heaven means exactly that. If they were in heaven when the spell was cast they fell, otherwise no. So Michael and Lucifer are not affected and perhaps angels that weren't there at the time (cupids for example) didn't 'fall'.
Super
# Super 2013-05-16 04:29
Nice post Ardeospina.

It was a really good finale, best in the last two years by far. I also didn't see that ending coming, so hats of to JC and his crew for creativity.

I personally had hoped that the brothers would just let this one (the trials) go, if the price was too high (like either one of their lives) and felt really happy and satisfied when exactly that happened. Bravo boys! Allthough, there was that lingering hurtSam situation left unresolved *wibbles*

This eppie really went all out there, raising a lot of new interesting questions (and sadly not answering quite a few badly needed ones as well, but I'm gonna take those thoughts to the bitterness thread) and I was left really intrigued by the way things were set for season 9.

Especially the angels falling (allthought that last line was a bit cheesy, sorry Dean). I'm wondering if they'll fall like Anna or because they were forced to do it and not chosen it (like Anna), they'll be something else. I did have a ludicrous thought that if they fall like Anna, then we'll have a big brawl in about 15 years once all those fallen angels, born in human babies will hit the teens and exact revenge on us all :D But that's a crack!fic for another day...
I'm just assuming that they'll be like Cas, human and bound to their vessels, with the vessels souls hopefully getting ascended to heaven where Metatron will make sure they get to live their happy heaven lives without any angel interference.

I honestly didn't get the bad guy -feels from Metatron. Personally I think the angels needed to be banished as a punishment for losing their way. Maybe they will remember their mission now and will team up and show us and Metatron that they can be better. OR they'll be über pissed and take it out on humans 'till the boys get them locked up again. I'm guessing the latter will happen :D

But Cas is human at least, YAY! At least I'm hoping he is. I liked him best in season 5 when he was losing his powers and becoming human so I'm hoping that will happen now too , only permanent this time. I was kinda tired of this angel powers trope anyway. I hope they can do a different spin on it though and not just a quick rehash of S5.

And then the boys. Oh the boys. They were incredible, weren't they? They made me so emotional and sad and happy when they were so tragic and honest and loving. I can see that rift healing (that started in season 4) better now. I can see that they are coming on an equal footing in some way. I'm glad that they are both saying things instead of the other one talking at the other and then months later the vice versa happens. They will never get better if they don't both talk and really listen what the other one is saying. I'm a bit more hopeful on that front thanks to this later season and esp. this eppie.

Mark Shepard was amazing, really really good in this one. I really felt for him when Crowley started to be more human than demon. I really liked that bit.

I was sad to see the Abaddon vessel go, I really liked the actress. Here's hoping she'll be the next big baddie in season 9 or atleast one of several baddies! But Sam took out that Knight of Hell with class! I fistpumped, I'm not embarrased to admit :)

Josie Mills better be alive, show, you hear me? I'm still pissed about Sarah!

Okay, a great eppie, thank you Jeremy Carver.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2013-05-16 04:49
I would type more but my hands won't stop shaking, in a really good way! Love this show. Love.
Clarice 0909
# Clarice 0909 2013-05-16 07:06
Quote:
I would type more but my hands won't stop shaking, in a really good way! Love this show. Love.
Hon, couldn't agree with you more..... really
prix68
# prix68 2013-05-16 07:28
Awesome finale! Shocked, amazed, and glad the boys are ending this season totally together. Can't wait for S9. JC, you rock!
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-16 07:50
I liked this was a lot but need to go back and watch it a few more times to take everything in. The last 10 minutes or so was very intense. Poor Castiel, always trying to do the right thing and screwing things up royally. Many people on this site, including myself, were questioning Metatron's motives in the last episode - looks like we got that one right; he is one batshit crazy angel.

So it looks like Castiel is human now but what about the other angels that got kicked out of heaven? They've certainly opened up a lot of possibilities for next season.

Wonder what happens with Crowley now, and with Abbaddon on the loose. At first glance, it looks as though hell might have the upper hand going in to next season.

Early in the episode, when Dean started rattling off Sam's past sins, I was thinking - Dean, you really don't want to go there. It then kind of clicked as to where they were going with Sam's confession. Have read some complaints about the ending scene between Sam & Dean, about it being a rehash of the same old thing, lack of character development/mat urity, etc. I have to disagree - with this season being about perception, IMO Sam has always viewed himself as having failed his brother over and over again, and his brother not trusting him. Clearly, he is the center of Dean's universe but this is from Sam's POV and Dean certainly doesn't help matters when he starts rattling off all of Sam's failures, most of which involve betraying Dean. The one issue I always have when he rattles these things off (in Southern Comfort, albeit under the influence, and in this episode) is him blaming Sam for being Soulless; not quite sure how that was Sam's fault.

A big shout out to all the actors in this one, particularly Mark Sheppard, JA, and JP; they were outstanding. And, the VFX, cinematography, lighting, and location folks did an outstanding job, as they have all season. The visuals and lighting of the abandoned church at night, and the angels falling out of the sky, were spectacular.
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-05-16 07:57
I'm sending you a cyber high five Ardeo, cause my hand is definitely up for this episode. It was sooooo bloody good. Just before the show started I was falling asleep on the couch, and after the show I couldn't sleep, I was too amped up! :-) Loved all the scenes with Sam & Crowley, he was actually humanizing him! Crowley biting Sam for some blood to scrye with was really smart, I guess that's why he's the king of Hell. But the very best were the scenes between Sam & Dean. When Sam tells Dean that his confession was about letting his brother down time and again, I lost it. :cry: Jared Padalecki has dug into some deep emotions for these past few episodes. I can't wait to watch it over and over and over.....
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-05-16 08:20
Wow! What a great finale. I loved it all, but particularly the scenes between Sam and Crowley (which I'd been looking forward to seeing after last week's shocking end). Top performances by both Jared and Mark :D

This was the first season finale without Bobby, so I was super happy that the boys captured Crowley in Bobby's car yard. I personally think that was done deliberately so we had Bobby there in spirit :sigh:

The final 10 minutes was brilliant & made my investment in that box of tissues so worthwhile :lol:

Epic brother moments :cry: ... and then, the angels falling. I know there was plenty of speculation about Castiel falling, but I didn't read any predictions about all the angels falling. Great job in surprising us all. I thoroughly enjoyed season 8. Thank you Jeremy Carver :-)
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-05-16 12:53
Quote:
This was the first season finale without Bobby, so I was super happy that the boys captured Crowley in Bobby's car yard. I personally think that was done deliberately so we had Bobby there in spirit
I loved this also. The shot of Sam rubbing his hand on the side of the van, the last vehicle they rode in together and then Dean just looking at the SS, the car we remember Bobby in the most. Just heartbreaking.
Thisoldbag
# Thisoldbag 2013-05-16 08:47
I so loved this finale! It left many unanswered questions, true. But, it opened new doors. There are new worlds now. I'd like to see the souls of heaven come together to right the wrongs-there are so many: Bobby, Ellen, Rufus, Ash... Our show can take many different turns. I had wondered what JC meant when he said the mythology could sustain the show for years, and now I can see it.
Lovely episode, great work by everyone. JP shows his talent again and it would be nice to see him recognized for it.
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-05-16 14:44
It would be an interesting aspect of the heaven/angels/h uman souls story if the hunters in heaven realized what had happened and started to right heaven from up there. A good way to see a lot of past characters from the show.
Michael K
# Michael K 2013-05-16 09:07
WOW... what an amazing finale. Just finished watching it twice because I couldn't believe that ending. Seeing Naomi dead, Cas having his grace taken from him and all the angels falling... that was unbelievable. The ending (final 10 minutes) just left me speechless!!!

Also, loved the conversation at the end between Sam and Dean, I am really happy that in this finale the brothers are together and their bond seems stronger than ever!

Well done Supernatural, you showed us why this show is the best going around.
Amyh
# Amyh 2013-05-16 09:26
I'm having a difficult time getting passed Dean blaming Sam for being souless. Something Castiel purposely did (he never denied it) for his own purposes.

But watching Sam and Deans scene at the end when Sam confessed he felt he's always letting Dean down. It made me think of Something Wicked...the episode way back in s1 about eh striga. Dean told Sam that he alwasy felt John looked at him differntly and it has affected Dean his entire life.

Dean is pretty much Sam's father and Sam feels he has let Dean down. But unlike Deans precierved failure and his perception that "john looked at him differently". Sam has the full 3d disappoint. Not only does Sam THINK he failed Dean he has Dean continually voicing his disappintment and betrayal. and then he takes pot shots at Sam under the guise of 'brotherly teasing'.

So where Dean THOUGHT John was disappointed in him...Sam KNOWS Dean is disappointed in him....through direct words and when he overhears Dean tell others Sam needs a babysitter, he cant be trusted.

So I hinestly dont get how Dean can say he didn't mean it or Sam miisunderstood him.

And i simply dont get why Carver HAD to have Sam not look for Dean...sin upon sin upon sin upon betrayal. Wasn't every faiilure of Sams that Dean has been listing all season enough?

And why was Sam not looking boiled down to just that? Sam not looking? Where was the human element of that? Sam loved his brother so much he broke? He was so frozen for fear of failing, of screwing up in a away it would hurt people and thus Dean would be disappointed.

Sam's human story just feelsd like a mitagated faiulre because their was a lack of humanity to it. Sams human story was basically Deans listing Sams failures.

I truely dont understand what Carver was doing with Sam this season. It trueley felt like an incoherent mess.
ciar
# ciar 2013-05-16 09:53
I dunno, I'm just not feeling as in awe of SPN season-ending cliffhangers any more *sigh* On the whole, S8 was a strange season for me:

S8 Cons
- I felt the writing was inconsistent quite a bit, they contradicted canon and the writing of Sam and Dean wasn't always consistent with previous characterisation.
- I disliked the Sam & Amelia plot (it bored me to tears and I hated the fact that the writers had Sam not look for Dean)
- There are unanswered questions from the early season that haven't been addressed and it doesn't look like they will be addressed, for example: who was standing outside the house in the first ep? Who told Benny about the portal out of Purgatory?
- The writers are just actually going with the idea that Sam didn't look for Dean and now that's something else Sam has to feel guilty about for letting Dean down - that seems unfair to me because Sam not looking for Dean is not organic to the character of Sam - it's something the writers put on him and it doesn't sit well with his previous character development. It doesn't feel like something he would do. I was hoping for an explanation that would show why he acted so OOC but the explanation we got just doesn't make sense, to me.

S8 pros
- The writers have made a fairly decent attempt to get Sam and Dean back to being friends and not just two brothers that hunt together because they hunt together. It felt a little forced at times and not as natural as I would have liked but I'll happily take it because I've been fed up of the Winchesters being angry with each other for the last 4 years.
- The brothers don't seem to be lying or withholding info from each other any more, this can only be a good thing.
- I enjoyed a lot of the guest actors for the recurring characters and enjoyed quite a few of the recurring characters.
- The trials story was interesting and so were the monster of the week stories (apart from Bitten which bored me to tears).
- There's going to be a S9 :D

So, for me, S8 was a mixed bag, I would have liked it to be more joined up and less inconsistent. The season ender had some really strong scenes in it and I enjoyed the quality of acting. I was sorry to see Naomi die and I hope that Jodi is still alive - stop killing strong female characters PTB. Cas being human might be interesting (he'll be on his third wife if he follows Metatron's advice to go forth and marry) if it's done well and allows for some character development. I suppose I'm curious to see what will come next year.

I've enjoyed going through my first SPN season in the company of the folks at WFB, I've enjoyed the reviews, articles, and chances to discuss things with fellow fans in a friendly atmosphere :D
KHALIL AHMED
# KHALIL AHMED 2013-05-16 10:24
GREAT FINALE THE QUESTION WHICH STRIKES ME MOST WAS THAT WHY METATRON SAID TO CAS THAT IM NOT LIKE U AND WHY DOES HE NEEDS ONLY CAS GRACE FOR THE SPELL I MEAN WHY DIDNT HE USED NAOMIS GRACE
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-16 11:05
Quote:
GREAT FINALE THE QUESTION WHICH STRIKES ME MOST WAS THAT WHY METATRON SAID TO CAS THAT IM NOT LIKE U AND WHY DOES HE NEEDS ONLY CAS GRACE FOR THE SPELL I MEAN WHY DIDNT HE USED NAOMIS GRACE
I think it's because Castiel performed the steps involved in the spell (killing the Nephilim, taking a Cupid's bow)
janiebee64
# janiebee64 2013-05-16 10:36
Quote from Kim A.
- Fallen angels would still have powers. After all Lucifer was a Fallen angel and he still had a lot of power! It's only angels without their Grace who become human.

Totally agree Kim A. which makes it really scary for Cas. If he thought the angels would kill him in Heaven(that's what he told Dean in the bar) then it will be doubly bad now. The angels will be pissed and he has no powers so he has a big bullseye on his back..not good. And how sick is Sam? All that energy that's been building in him turned inward because he didn't complete the trials..how is that going to affect him physically. I'm thinking this will be a big probably in season 9 and with no Cas to heal him..well who knows. Maybe another angel will step up and be an ally/protector for the boys and Cas..lots of possibilities there. I was kinda sad to see Naomi go. She redeemed herself in the end and I think she could have been that ally/protector for them.

Loved that brother moment at the end..heartbreak ing. Sam has been carrying this guilt around and was willing to sacrifice himself so he wouldn't be a disappointed to Dean anymore. I glad he told Dean so he(Dean) could see how much Sam cared for him...great acting/scene between the boys. Great job Carver..you've left us reeling!! Now I can't wait for season 9. Most of all I'm glad the boys are together going into season 9. I really didn't won't them apart again.

Take care,
Jane
Gwen
# Gwen 2013-05-16 10:44
My initial reaction after watching just once was that I'm pretty much torn. It was a finale of two halves for me.

I loved a lot of it. As in seriously LOVED. The scenes between JP and MS were awesome. Both JP and MS deserve some Emmy nominations for their performances in this episode.

Those final scenes between the brothers...dear God...those scenes were incredible. Jared and Jensen were fabulous. I think that scene could have become my new most favourite brotherly scene ever. Sam/Jared tore my heart to shreds, more so than ever before (and Sam's broken my Sam girl heart a lot over the years :lol: ). When he told Dean that his greatest sin was how he always let Dean down...the Sammy tears...oh Sammy... :cry: And his "so" when Dean told him he'd die. That just about put my heart through the mincer. Jared's performance was brilliant. And Dean's speech about nothing ever coming before Sam for him. Then the hug. It was a glorious brotherly moment. LOVED it!

As for the rest of the episode I'm hesitant to admit it but the angel stuff didn't interest me. I've tried, oh how I've tried since S4 to get interested in the angels and their storylines but I haven't managed to yet. :sad: The angels all falling to earth was an impressive image though. I loved the setting of that old church too, it was all very atmospheric.

Dean bringing up Sam being soulless as something Sam should be guilty for/confess was a WTH??? moment for me.

I still have big issues with what Carver did with Sam's storyline this season however this finale ended with some delicious Hurt!Sam so, as a huge Hurt!Sam fan, that probably pretty much guarantees I'll be tuning in for S9. :lol:

P.S I really hope Jodie is still alive.

P.P.S After all these years Carry On My Wayward Son still gives me the chills and it still reduces me to tears. As soon as I hear the first few notes I'm pretty much a wreck from then on in. Whoever first chose this song back in S1 made a genius choice. It's such a perfect song for the show.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-16 11:10
here's the way i see it...a cliffhanger is in essence just part one of a two part episode. so in reality, we just got half an eppy...there's still more to come. on that note i'm not counting out all the questions that have been left hanging...it just couldn't all happen in a mere 42 minutes. ;-)

i really enjoyed this episode. it had, for me, an amazing powerful moment that i think changed the relationship of the boys forever...for the better. i'll get into that in a bit.

the shadow figure, who told benny about the portal...those are very big questions that i still think we will get the answer to..like i said, we only saw part one of a two part eppy...i'm leaning to it being metatron who wanted the boys back in the game. i think metatron gave benny the info and i think he brought dear dead don back. sam was living in a fantasy world and it was time for him to get back to the real story...his life...and i can't help but wonder if metatron knew all along that sam would undertake the trials....i think metatron has been pissed off at the angels and planning a payback plan for a long time.

will crowley become our new meg? i mean he is just one step away from full on human...do sam and dean have a new demon ally now? that could come in handy...

cas as human? pretty boring and not much for him to do...i don't think it'll last...he either gets his grace back or perhaps abbadon uses cas as a new vessel being that sam burned the old one...either that or perhaps abbadon makes crowley his/her new home...and crowley gets to be double bad...how delicious would that be...

don't know which direction show will go there, but i do hope cas doesn't stay human...not much for him to do then. i really don't think he'll be riding in the back seat of the impala.

sam was just one step away of total purification... or was he? his blood was working on crowley. he also confessed. i believe sam actually was purified...i think the dying was just his reward...if you go by christian belief, heaven is a reward for all of us. sam may have had a role in heaven to play...that's what i'd like to think anyway...either that or he would've been reunited with john and mary....

my question is, was sam sick because he stopped the trial or was it because angels upon angels were falling to earth and he felt their pain...

not sure if metatron drained all the angels of their grace or simply found a way to dispel them from heaven and close the gate himself. if the angels are on earth with power, is that good or bad? they're going to be pretty pissed off...

now the best scene of them all...the gamechanger...t he scene that i believe changes the boys relationship into one that is stronger and more honest and definitely the mature relationship that carver has been striving for...

i have to admit, i wanted so badly for dean to get a glimpse of what sam really went thru during that year...and i almost got upset that it didn't happen...but then we got the last scene which i thought was so much more important....an d this last scene, imo broke the winchester dam...so i still have high hope that dean will ask sam about his year...

sam's "so" just made me grab a tissue. i've posted it before that i always thought sam felt like a disappointment to his brother...that he would rather dean angry at him then admit anything like another failure, like maybe it's not that sam didn't look, but more like he couldn't do it...he simply broke. he imploded and he ran...he hid in a life that wasn't really his...he found someone he could save because he couldn't save his brother...but in the end sam knew life with amelia wasn't about love...it was about running and hiding and it was time to stop. i think metatron thought the same thing, because i still think it was him that watched sam leave.....sam and amelia were not part of metatron's story...imo of course.

so when sam said so to dean's you will die...i just knew what was coming next and i cried a little of the sheer relief of it...finally... .just finally....

sam admits to dean what a lot of us already knew. and dean...well i haven't cried in a dean scene since s2...i was so proud of him...i loved him all over again...dean learning the truth about how sam felt and dishing back a truth that we all knew but sam didn't until that moment....best brother scene ever...
the most important part of this moment, imo of course, is that the winchester dam has finally been broken. there is no truth bigger than the one they just told ea. other. there is no need to for either brother to ever hold back again...to feel like they can't talk to ea. other...i felt this to be the most pivotal moment in the 8 years of this show...sam and dean's relationship is now mature, honest and stronger than superman and i am just one happy camper right now.

as i stated, i do want dean to know what it was like for sam as i think it's important because the first half of the season was so one sided...and i still think it's going to happen.... after watching and rewatching i realized that first this step had to be taken....dean now understands sam in a way he never has before.. ( thank you ben and jeremy) dean's words, his resentment, his trust in benny and even cas hurt sam in a way he never realized did...there's no blame here as sam keeps his feelings to himself...but now dean knows and i really believe that dean, when things are calmer, will come to realize that he never really talked to sam about his year...what it was like for him...and i think he will .and.not to start an argument, but because he really wants to know...because when all is said and done, bottom line is dean does care about sam. also because this is still an open wound for them and us and as wonderful as this speech was it didn't really cover the issue...but as i said i really believe that this talk was necessary. it was the pivotal major step imperative in opening the way for more honesty between the boys and less trying to hide things because they want to protect ea. other or don't want to disappoint ea. other.

so kudos to carver for that...i think he has earned at least a bottle of dr. pepper for this one....
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-16 11:40
nappi, I kinda love you. I Want To Believe. I want to believe every single thing you said, but most especially the stuff about getting Sam's POV and their relationship growing and finally dealing with these long held issues from BOTH sides. I loved that scene between the boys for all the reasons that you mentioned. It was another of those FINALLY moments for me. And I want to believe that they are simply leading up to spectacular things in S9. That they will get around to answering and dealing with all these things. That is what I want to believe. I just.....
Darya2
# Darya2 2013-05-16 13:02
*holds you* It'll be fine, I think Carver actually knows what he's doing (or at least I prefer to believe that) Even SoCo seemed to have a point after the finale.

P.S: Where are the Dr. Pepper deliverers? nappi is right, Carver deserves at least one.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-16 13:08
Nappi85 - couldn't agree more; just watched it again during my lunch break and was more impressed the second time around. I know Castiel lost his mojo but was left wondering if the fallen angels did too (looks like their wings burned off), or whether they still have limited abilities like when Castiel was cut off from heaven in S5.

I do think Sam was "purified" of demon blood. Otherwise his blood wouldn't have worked in beginning to cure Crowley.

Everyone is always asking to hear Sam's POV; well, we got an earful over the past couple of episodes. This conversation was long overdue; while Sam and Deans relationship has improved a lot over the second half of the season, there were still clearly a lot of problems. Might be in the minority here but Dean, even though he clearly loves his brother and would do anything for him, still harbors resentment for Sam letting him down in the past, otherwise he wouldn't keep bringing it up. I just don't think he realized the extent of how much his comments, even when said in a joking or flippant manner, stung Sam.

I'm with you; hope we get to hear more about Sam's year off in S9. Also love your theory about Metatron being outside of Sam and Amelia''s house when he left in 8.01.

The acting was top notch; MS, JA, and JP were outstanding, JP in particular during the last couple of episodes.

Overall, very happy with S8; yes, there were problems but JC did a good job in breathing life in to an aging show; lots of possibilities for S9, S10 and maybe even beyond that?
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-16 21:44
hey njspnfan, i agree that overall this season is made me more happy than not. i never had a problem with sam not looking, i totally understood how that could be...i only wanted sam to have a voice...and he got it...he got his voice and now i think it's appropriate for dean to say..."what don't i know about that kid"... :D

as to your question on dean blaming sam for not telling him he was souless...i'd like to share with you my perception of it...maybe it'll help or maybe it's just plain horse puckey in your opinion....but here goes..

dean isn't stupid. he knows sam is not at fault for being souless and he knows and has told sam time and time again that he wasn't responsible for souless sam's acts. in clap your hands if you believe, dean was totally aware of sam's lack of empathy...his inability to care...souless sam has told dean that he didn't care about lisa, that he didn't even care about him. dean knew what souless meant because he witnessed it first hand.

but dean is human and even at times emotional. we see him get angry, we see him happy, we see him sad....the man feels and imo he feels deeply. that being said, i can only imagine how hard it must have been for dean to have sam next to him every day but not having him there. to see the shell that was his brother and know that the best part of who sam was, was suffering in hell..trapped in the cage with lucifer.

now imagine all this anger and pain dean is feeling and then imagine him being angry at sam for making him feel that way...even though sam had nothing to do with it. it wasn't his fault...but for dean, it doesn't matter, because sam is the one who is making him feel all this pain. sam is the one who jumped in the pit. sam gave himself to save the world...and dean is alone and without his brother...knowi ng he's in hell suffering. then sam comes back and dean is happy to have his brother back, only to learn he doesn't have his brother back..not all of him, not his sammy...so in essence dean still lost his brother...

i kind of equate it with someone who's sick and dying. they don't ask to be sick. they don't want to be sick. it's not their fault...but it's not unheard of for a loved one to be angry with this person for being sick...for dying. and for making them hurt.

that's how i always pictured it for dean and why he brings up the souless thing.....logic ally dean knows it's not sam's fault...but emotionally, souless sam for dean iis hurt.

that's just how i see it...
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-16 21:45
hey njspnfan, i agree that overall this season is made me more happy than not. i never had a problem with sam not looking, i totally understood how that could be...i only wanted sam to have a voice...and he got it...he got his voice and now i think it's appropriate for dean to say..."what don't i know about that kid"... :D

as to your question on dean blaming sam for not telling him he was souless...i'd like to share with you my perception of it...maybe it'll help or maybe it's just plain horse puckey in your opinion....but here goes..

dean isn't stupid. he knows sam is not at fault for being souless and he knows and has told sam time and time again that he wasn't responsible for souless sam's acts. in clap your hands if you believe, dean was totally aware of sam's lack of empathy...his inability to care...souless sam has told dean that he didn't care about lisa, that he didn't even care about him. dean knew what souless meant because he witnessed it first hand.

but dean is human and even at times emotional. we see him get angry, we see him happy, we see him sad....the man feels and imo he feels deeply. that being said, i can only imagine how hard it must have been for dean to have sam next to him every day but not having him there. to see the shell that was his brother and know that the best part of who sam was, was suffering in hell..trapped in the cage with lucifer.

now imagine all this anger and pain dean is feeling and then imagine him being angry at sam for making him feel that way...even though sam had nothing to do with it. it wasn't his fault...but for dean, it doesn't matter, because sam is the one who is making him feel all this pain. sam is the one who jumped in the pit. sam gave himself to save the world...and dean is alone and without his brother...knowi ng he's in hell suffering. then sam comes back and dean is happy to have his brother back, only to learn he doesn't have his brother back..not all of him, not his sammy...so in essence dean still lost his brother...

i kind of equate it with someone who's sick and dying. they don't ask to be sick. they don't want to be sick. it's not their fault...but it's not unheard of for a loved one to be angry with this person for being sick...for dying. and for making them hurt.

that's how i always pictured it for dean and why he brings up the souless thing.....logic ally dean knows it's not sam's fault...but emotionally, souless sam for dean is "hurt".

that's just how i see it...
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-16 23:30
Computer snafu...sorry for double post
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-05-17 14:18
Nappi815 - good point about the Soulless stuff and, if I remember correctly, Dean was going thru a really rough patch with Lisa and Ben at that time. My primary point about this was that it's clear that Dean still harbors some resentment over these past betrayals, otherwise he wouldn't keep bringing them up. But, then again, if he had realized how much they really shook Sam to his core, he probably wouldn't have done it.

And besides, I can tell you from experience that brothers never really grow out of this kind of crap, no matter how old they get :-)
LoveMyCas87
# LoveMyCas87 2013-05-16 11:26
First, excellent review, you highlighted some of my favorite moments...Now...

OMG I LOVED THIS EPISODE!!!! Best season finale by far!!! I have never been so anxious to find out what happens next, and now we have all summer! Wah!!! The acting was incredible, Mark Sheppard, Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki brought me to tears..
*Crowley wanting forgiveness and asking Sam where to start, willingly taking more purified blood...Oh I hope Dean finishes the trial so he can be cured. I love Crowley as King of Hell but I also like this new Crowley and would love to hear his real back story.
*Sam's "So?" HEARTBREAKING
*Dean telling Sam, that's not what he ever meant....The whole scene...best Broment ever!
*Dean looking up at the sky "It's Angels" (anyone else think he was amazed at that point? Like maybe they were coming to help or something amazing was happening?) then he realizes they are falling..
*Cas is human, love it and hate it at the same time!
*Jody, please be alive, maybe the "new" Crowley can be your boyfriend. :)

...Now I know some of you are all pissed when Dean was telling Sam was to confess (like losing his soul)..First of all, I don't think he was pissed that Sam lost it, more what he did when he didn't have it (I know he has no soul, its not his fault) but if that happened to me, I would confess too....that's all Dean was trying to do. Tell Sam what he thought he should ask God for forgiveness for. Dean has put it in the past (or he has now after their awesome broment). I don't think Dean ever meant to hurt Sam like that, it was just confession suggestions.

Anyway...When the angels were falling, I was very much in awe. It was beautiful and terrible at the same time.

Kudos to the actors, writers and entire crew. This episode was AMAZING, probably one of my favorites! Can't wait til Fall!!

Quick theory....What if next season, Sam and Dean have to not only find a way to send the angels back to Heaven, but they have to protect them? You know, like a reverse guardian ship??
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-16 12:12
Great comments everyone! I've only watched the ep once, but I loved it!

OK, these are in random thinky thought order. :D

1) I'm going with - Jodi is alive! I'm not speculating on that one. I have faith. I love her.
2) Dean's deep down pain, real pain that comes back to him in unexpected moments so that he can't forget, is why he keeps bringing up those hateful things he says. I myself have said some awful things for that reason and I never intended to say them.
3) Didn't icky Metraton put something into Cas between taking his grace and sealing him up?
4) Sam saying "so?" broke my heart into little pieces. I cried a lot during this episode.
5) Finding out what Sam really thought from his voice and his POV was so powerful - I'm starting to cry again now! Jared is wonderful. He rocked the second half of this season!
6) Dean telling Sam he would never put anything above Sam - he can't get along without him, that he loves him. OMG - I'm crying right now (harder).
7) The hug. I cried again. I don't mind crying during SPN and the J's. They deserve Emmy's.
8) Mark Sheppard was AWESOME with Jared. When he bit Sam it was right up there with the grossest SPN scenes. Yuck!
9) The angels falling were beautiful, especially the far-away view.
10) The first half of the season still doesn't make sense when you try to blend it with the rest of the season.
11) There are just enough questions for us to talk about during the Hellatus.

Plus, in honor of the Show, I tried to drink whiskey while I watched. It was very difficult! One sip per commercial was all I could manage. Apparently I am not hunter material. *disappointed*

Sorry this was so long and disorganized.
Darya2
# Darya2 2013-05-16 12:59
Oh, you and I, love2boys. We'll stick to the soft stuff (or cough syrup) but maybe that'll help us rock the weapons. Don't be disappointed :D
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-16 13:55
Darya, I don't even like beer. It's Diet Dr. Pepper for me. Or chocolate milk. :D
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-16 17:44
oooh love2boys and darya, you are a couple of wild and crazy girls!!! :lol:
E
# E 2013-05-16 21:59
Diet Dr. Pepper milk! :lol:
Leah unlogged
# Leah unlogged 2013-05-16 22:11
Diet Dr. Pepper and CHOCOLATE milk. Yum. A new abomination for you to :-x over!
:lol:
E
# E 2013-05-16 23:09
It reminds me of Laverne's milk and pepsi on Laverne and Shirley....revo lting! :-x :-x here! have two!
MB
# MB 2013-05-16 16:51
1. So is Metatron up in heaven all alone with a bunch of souls? That is a scary thought. Presumably he worked it out somehow so that he wouldn't get expelled from heaven when the rest of the angels were cast out. And God only cast out one angel. Metatron cast out thousands. Do you think God is going to make him answer for his crimes? Or will it be Castiel that makes Metatron pay?

This is one of the big O_O moments for me. I don't care that we're meant to take it on faith that Metatron avoided the fall along with the others I want to know HOW he did it. And to not give us the answer before the break makes it look like a huge plot hole NOT a cliffhangar to be excited about.

2. What does the angel tablet actually say about trials? Can it help re-open the gates of heaven? And if Metatron wrote the tablets, won't he know how to subvert whatever's on them, if he has to?

It probably does have a method of shutting down Heaven. It probably has a method to restore fallen angels. It probably has some house rules and if it has the ritual to cause a mass falling it probably has a few other tricks and tips on too. In some ways the mass falling could be comparable to the demon bombs.

3. Sam was filling with energy during the trials, so what's going to happen to that energy now? He was supposed to just be the conductor, pouring the energy into Crowley to cure him and get himself killed in the process. So what happens now? Also, why are his hands always getting patched up by Dean? Stigmata references? Something else?

I actually think that Sam could and should complete the trials because they won't actually kill him. They'll kill those who balk at the final hurdle but will spare/purify those that are truly prepared to sacrifice all for the greater good. Energy isn't destroyed merely displaced so it either escaped into the atmosphere or is still within Sam's frame as some other kind of energy.

4. How pissed is Abaddon going to be when she comes back next year?

Another O_O moment. After everything the "unkillable" Abaddon can endure a little gasoline is sufficient to drive her off. That scene was sloppy to the extreme. And a waste of a phenomenal actress. When the character comes back she'll be back for blood and she better take her pound of flesh from Crowley; Hell is due a new ruler.

5. Since when does jamming a drill into the back of an angel's head kill it? Do you think Naomi was really dead or just incapacitated before getting expelled from heaven? Are all those angels going to have their memories intact since they didn't choose to fall and become human? How guilty is Cass going to feel about the angels being cast from heaven, too? Very guilty is my guess. Will the other angels blame him? Will he be hunted again?

I suspect that she was brain dead since it was an angelic drill. If we're lucky she'll be back because she was worth her weight in narrative gold. I think all angels are meant to be amnesiacs including Cas. At least that was my takeaway from what Metatron was saying to Castiel when he was finishing the ritual.

6. What else would set off the alarms in the bunker like that, do you think? The mass demon exodus at the end of season 2?

Purgatory opening, leviathans, angels falling/walking the earth en masse, demonic uprising.

7. If God is all-knowing, etc, why would he choose Metatron as his scribe if He knew Metatron was going to go batty and expel all the angels from heaven? (These sort of things make my brain melt)

I want to know how Metatron got out of Naomi's chair. No other angel has done so before hand and yet somehow he's able to reach and manipulate the tool to break out? Another gaping plot hole. Saying God allowed it doesn't make it better.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-16 19:21
Quote:
2. What does the angel tablet actually say about trials? Can it help re-open the gates of heaven? And if Metatron wrote the tablets, won't he know how to subvert whatever's on them, if he has to? It probably does have a method of shutting down Heaven. It probably has a method to restore fallen angels. It probably has some house rules and if it has the ritual to cause a mass falling it probably has a few other tricks and tips on too. In some ways the mass falling could be comparable to the demon bombs.
I think that casting the angels out had nothing at all to do with the angel tablet. It was a spell that Metatron had (and what is an angel doing casting spells?)
Quote:
Another O_O moment. After everything the "unkillable" Abaddon can endure a little gasoline is sufficient to drive her off. That scene was sloppy to the extreme. And a waste of a phenomenal actress.
I am pretty sure it was holy oil not gasoline - Sam was decanting it at the car while Dean was doing his confession speech. I agree, I liked the actress too, maybe they can bring her back!
Quote:
yet somehow he's able to reach and manipulate the tool to break out?
As is often the way Naomi just left it in the wrong place and he took advantage. :D

I hope Naomi is only mostly dead too, I would love to see Amanda Tapping back next season.
E
# E 2013-05-16 22:13
Quote:
Another O_O moment. After everything the "unkillable" Abaddon can endure a little gasoline is sufficient to drive her off. That scene was sloppy to the extreme.
It wasn't gasoline, it was holy oil and more than enough to drive off a demon, even a knight of hell. I didn't find that sloppy, I found it awesome and showed that the boys were thinking. They may have been dumb enough to let her get away in the first place, but it also showed that they were prepared to deal with her or any other demon who might come along. She'll be pissed all right, maybe at Sam as much as at Crowley.
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2013-05-16 17:50
Yeah, Metatron. ‘We' all know this can’t be good, given that heaven is now essentially empty, ready for anyone to come in but at this stage I’m kinda with Sam and Dean ‘It’s someone else’s problem.’ Let Metatron deal with this when it goes belly up, and it will go belly up. When that tall redhead with mad lipstick and ahem, slightly singed hair comes storming in, let him wet his pants and then sort out the angel’s souls himself. For feck sake, don’t enable him. It’s his problem so let him deal with it. Let Sam and Dean go back to helping ordinary people from ordinary nasties, focus on themselves for a bit.

Castiel going human. I know a lot of people called it but jeez, I don’t know. I hope they take it (human Castiel) seriously because I think Castiel the naive human playing the imbecile on shopping trips and whatnot could get very old, very fast. That being said, I do want to just lock him in a beehive hut at the top of Skellig Michael for the next six hundred years or so, just cos.

Gotta be honest, the scenes with Castiel and Metatron (and really just Metatron in general) just didn’t do it for me. I’m not sure why. Maybe because it was so obvious that he was playing Castiel? Though while I did expect him to stage some sort of coup I wasn’t expecting him to cast all the angels out of heaven.

So I guess it’s just Metatron and a couple of hundred million (billion?) souls. I wonder if it could be sort of an Arabian Nights sort of thing up there now where each night a soul must tell Metatron a story and if he’s not entertained then that soul will get fecked out of there. Metatron does seem kinda high maintenance.

The last scene was amazeballs. The angels dropping from heaven like falling stars (that’s why I don’t believe that people will start finding out about the supernatural. It could easily be explained off as a natural phenomenon), while the camera goes between the five characters was brilliant.

Pretty much everything with Sam and Crowley was gold. From the time Dean slapped the handcuff on him to the end where (I’m sure) he was uttering a prayer (or something) as Sam was about to ‘cure’ him, Crowley was amazing. The scene where he turned his neck to Sam (and actually called him 'Sam', not Moose or Giraffe or whatnot) and Sam was oh so gentle with the needle that time was absolutely beautiful. The church was fabulous, the setting gorgeous. I loved the (slightly horrific) crucifix with the severed hands and feet nailed to it; quite cool when you consider Abbadon, who dealt with her own case of severed limbs the week before. I wonder if that is some sort of symbolism there that angels and demons (or archangels and possibly recently promoted queens of Hell) have more in common than previously thought.

The scene.... Yes, it was fabulous. Yes, it was overdue, very long overdue. We’ve had a lot about how Sam’s abandoning of Dean has affected Dean but now we see how Dean abandoning Sam (and if Sam going with Ruby is abandonment then Dean going with Castiel etc is equally so) has affected Sam. We probably don’t consider it as abandonment because Castiel and Benny were well liked (I wonder what people would call it if it was Sarah that Sam went to) but it was. It doesn’t matter what the intentions were (ie stopping the Apocalypse), it doesn’t matter what the reasons behind it were, what matters is how the person affected perceived it to be (and this is the only time this season I’ll use the word 'perceive' and not roll my eyes). Sam is cut to the bone by his perception that Dean choose someone, anyone (even monsters) over him and Dean is angry by his perception that Sam chose someone over him. Sam believes he’ll never be trusted, and has never been trusted by Dean, a belief of which there are ample examples that Sam could use as evidence. Perhaps, backed up by the words spoken in Southern Comfort, he believes he’s been Dean’s cross to bear, his obligation, his burden, since he sat into Dean’s ride (God knows how far back when). I imagine those words, and the words on the voicemail, and the words spoken through seasons 4 and 5, and the knowledge that Dean felt he needed to kill ‘him’ in season 6, to (maybe) the knowledge that Dean made a deal for Death’s ring etc etc, it’s not hard to see why Sam believes that. We obviously know that’s not what Dean believes but if Sam believes that he’s dirty, unworthy, tainted etc from a very young age then I’m sure he believes that he’s not worthy of being loved by someone that he holds in such high esteem. I can’t imagine how deep those scars must be, to believe that you were ‘abandoned’ by your brother, your father, angels and God himself.

We’ve seen plenty of evidence that Dean loves Sam, that Dean is important to Sam etc, but Sam has seen little. And what he has seen, given his fairly fragile emotional state, could easily be played down and turned around (ie ‘He didn’t kill Benny for me, he killed Benny because he wanted the trials done’ etc). That’s what to the core depression and desolation does to a person. It’s why I appreciate Amelia all the more. Sam mightn’t have completely melted with her but he did start to thaw. In this scene, however, Sam shattered and it was painful to see.

I loved the ‘Just let it go’ ‘I can’t. It’s in me.’ etc lines because both Sam and Dean were talking about sooooo much more than the trials. This regret, this overwhelming regret, is deep rooted in Sam and it’s been festering there for years, decades now. It can’t (it shouldn’t) be that easy to just let it go. Though hopefully, this outburst, this release, and the knowledge (no matter how tentative) that he is wholly accepted by Dean, might make him more confident to express himself the next time, without that fear of being rejected for it.

However...... (and this is where I express some discontent so feel free to scroll past it), it is my most fervent desire that this is built on in season 9. It can’t be a simple fix it, the boys relationship is back perfect etc etc. For as much as we, and Sam, now know Sam is important to Dean (though I think it will take a lot longer for that to set in for Sam, even as Dean was saying it you could see that Sam was struggling to believe it) the issue of trust is still up in the air (for me). Dean, and we, still doesn’t know why Sam did what he did, in any of the situations. We (the audience) can make assumptions based on conversations that Dean was not privy to etc but Dean doesn’t know any of this. Dean doesn’t know why Sam did what he did, so can Dean trust him to not do it again? No. If Dean doesn’t know, can Sam trust him to not turn to someone else the next time Sam does something Dean doesn’t agree with? No. If Dean doesn’t know why Sam does what he does, if he (or anyone) doesn’t ask, and if Sam doesn’t tell, then very, very quickly Dean will decide he can’t trust Sam anymore and we’re back to square one.

If you think about it, for the sake of one word ‘Why?’, at any stage, in any season so much turmoil could have been avoided. If someone said to Sam, even now, ‘Why did you go with Ruby?’, ‘Why did you drink blood?’, ‘Why didn’t you look for Dean?’ etc, and an answer given, then Dean might never have reason to feel he couldn’t trust Sam, to think Sam needed a babysitter etc. He’d have known Sam’s intentions and not just seen his actions and the ensuing results. By knowing his intentions he’d realise that he himself has had the same intentions, has often done the same thing (but with different consequences) and he’ll find that he and Sam are more alike than they thought.

Dean needs to be privy to Sam’s thoughts and vice versa, not in a creepy co-dependent way but to allow them to know the other because, at the moment, they don’t. I’m sorry but they don’t. I don’t think they have a clue as to what drives the other because Dean is so caught up in anger and obligation and Sam is so caught up in regret and self-loathing that they can’t know each other.

This is why, for me, the ‘confession†™ to Dean was so important. From Sam’s POV, Dean hadn’t forgiven him for what he did in the past. Southern Comfort confirmed that. And as much as, logically, Sam knows that he repented, and did ample penance, for what he did, he can’t find true forgiveness within himself until he is granted forgiveness by some higher power. Maybe Sam was so full of self-loathing that he didn’t think that Dean would forgive him (that’s why he didn’t tell him) so he went to a different higher power, a higher power who remained woefully silent in the past, for what he hoped would be forgiveness. And he was forgiven by God; the fact that his blood worked with Crowley (hopefully, cos it’d be great if it did. One soul saved, one win, one small win for Sam could go a long way for the guy) shows that.

However, he also confessed to Dean and this is something that we (good little Irish RC students) were told never to do. You confess your sins to God and God alone, because only God has to power to forgive you (and Mrs P, primary school teacher was never wrong when it came to God!) However, Sam also confessed to Dean, what he said to God he also said to his brother; his own higher power? Did Dean forgive him, truly forgive him? Having seen Sam’s self inflicted, scourging to the core, penance that Sam has been doing for years now, hopefully he has/truly will, and this will allow both Sam and Dean to heal and find some worth within themselves.

Thanks for this Ardeospina.
ThisOldBag
# ThisOldBag 2013-05-16 18:19
Oh Tim, So very well said. I agree completely. I was expecting a line from Sam like "The only thing I've ever done right...is die." But the moment was great, emotional and honest. Om fact I feel a bit relieved, waiting so long for this realization to hit Dean that sometimes words hurt.

I do think they need to use the song "He ain't heavy, he's my brother" sometime...so appropriate.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-17 01:02
Tim, this was an amazing analysis and so well written. I agree completely with your assessment of the characters and with the need for this not to be dropped in the next season. And especially for the need of Sam's thoughts continuing to flow.
Tim the Enchanter
# Tim the Enchanter 2013-05-16 18:00
Oh, I forgot the questions. Sorry!

Quote:
1. So is Metatron up in heaven all alone with a bunch of souls? That is a scary thought. Presumably he worked it out somehow so that he wouldn't get expelled from heaven when the rest of the angels were cast out. And God only cast out one angel. Metatron cast out thousands. Do you think God is going to make him answer for his crimes? Or will it be Castiel that makes Metatron pay?
Hopefully God, give Metatron a clout around the ear. Maybe take his pension away. Keep Castiel away from the place anyway. He’s like a freaking pyromaniac with box of matches. He just can’t help himself.

Quote:
2. What does the angel tablet actually say about trials? Can it help re-open the gates of heaven? And if Metatron wrote the tablets, won't he know how to subvert whatever's on them, if he has to?
I’m going with the ‘Let Metatron fix it, not my problem dude’ attitude. Tell Kevin to shove that tablet into an envelope and post it back to him. Metatron was big enough and bold enough to find a ‘solution’ the first time round, he can do it again. I mean, why would (should) Sam and Dean now go and antagonise the boss of heaven? He’s done nothing to them. In fact, he seems to hold humans in relatively high esteem and he did live among them for years. He could be the best thing to happen to heaven in ages. I do wish he dressed better though.

Quote:
3. Sam was filling with energy during the trials, so what's going to happen to that energy now? He was supposed to just be the conductor, pouring the energy into Crowley to cure him and get himself killed in the process. So what happens now? Also, why are his hands always getting patched up by Dean? Stigmata references? Something else?
Dunno, but the idea of a snot rag that has been in close proximity to Dean’s ass all day being used to patch up an open wound is a big no-no. Fuck sake, Sam survives the trials and whatnot only to die of MRSA or some butt transfer related disease. Would they not carry around a box of band aid or elastoplast or something like that with them? They always seem to need it.

Strange though that Sam did seem to get a case of the Aaaargh’s again just as the angels started dropping.

Quote:
4. How pissed is Abaddon going to be when she comes back next year?
Very. She’ll be like a cut cat, so she will. Sam had better start carrying a fire extinguisher around with him.

Quote:
5. Since when does jamming a drill into the back of an angel's head kill it? Do you think Naomi was really dead or just incapacitated before getting expelled from heaven? Are all those angels going to have their memories intact since they didn't choose to fall and become human? How guilty is Cass going to feel about the angels being cast from heaven, too? Very guilty is my guess. Will the other angels blame him? Will he be hunted again?
In short; since today; really dead; they’ll have their memories; very; yes and yes. Bet that beehive hut on top of Skellig Michael doesn’t sound so bad now, does it Castiel??

Quote:
6. What else would set off the alarms in the bunker like that, do you think? The mass demon exodus at the end of season 2?
Lots of things. Definitely that demon thing, when the winning goal in the FA cup is scored, when they announce the winner of the X Factor, when the cake is ready, things like that. I’m sure it’s multi-purpose, and I bet that some of the MoL were right pranksters. All work and no play yadda yadda. And if Bobby can do it then surely these guys can.

Quote:
7. If God is all-knowing, etc, why would he choose Metatron as his scribe if He knew Metatron was going to go batty and expel all the angels from heaven? (These sort of things make my brain melt)
Isn’t Metatron only doing what God previously did; cast out an angel cos he didn’t do what he was supposed to do and he was basically acting the pup, like the angels are now. Surely God would approve of what Metatron did?
ThisOldBag
# ThisOldBag 2013-05-16 18:22
OK...now i'm just snort laughing (not pretty) so thanks for that.
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-16 18:45
Quote:
Dunno, but the idea of a snot rag that has been in close proximity to Dean’s ass all day being used to patch up an open wound is a big no-no. Fuck sake, Sam survives the trials and whatnot only to die of MRSA or some butt transfer related disease.
And in the 'too much information' category we have ... Tim! Thanks for that Tim :D
Those black and white bandanas have been used for a LOT of things over the years: bandages, gags, compression bandages, Jensen wore one as a head-cover in one of the gag reels, and my personal favorite: for cleaning the railing of a fire escape outside a window where a guy has just had his head chopped off. I am forced to assume that they wash them occasionally... .
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-16 21:24
Tim, omg. You kill. Snot rag? I've been calling it a sweat rag. Must be a FL thing. 8)

Metatron doesn't dress well enough? :P

ThisOldBag, I also snort laughed. Tim does that to me. And how long was her post? And every word well thought out.

Tim, really your post was great. Your points are always clear. I liked what you said. Thanks, from l2b, who couldn't get that many words out at one time if she had the rest of her life. :D
Darya2
# Darya2 2013-05-16 23:54
Tim, it's really too early here for inappropriately loud laughing, but I love you for everything you said, and everything you said you did perfectly. Even when it was about snot rags and...butt transfer related disease? :lol:
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-05-16 18:38
PERCEPTION

Jeremy Carver doesn’t give away much in his interviews, but he did let this one word out very early in the season! Perception! And, he has to be congratulated on the resounding success of that aspect of season 8.

Each week, I read the comments on this site (on the speculation thread and other reviews) and I’ve been completely astounded by the different perception each and every one of us has of practically every scene. Even today, after the finale, some people are saying that Supernatural is no longer about the brothers, while others are saying it’s all about the brothers :sigh:

In a recent interview, Jeremy Carver said “I’m not going to lie: it’s certainly harder to come up with original stories. But when you have this base of these two brothers – as long as it always comes back to that, in one form or another – I think we’re on safe ground.”

After the finale, there is no doubt in my mind that it’s all about the brothers, who have both matured considerably in this season (fulfilling another JC comment).

Perception! I don’t know how many times this season that I’ve read the following comment: “We must be watching different shows”. Hell, I’ve even expressed this myself after reading some comments that have threatened to nullify my total happiness about an episode.

But, back to the finale! The final 10 minutes of season 8 completely summed up the notion of perception by presenting us with two brothers FINALLY letting each other know their own skewed perceptions of each other and themselves.

Sam: “You wanna know what I confessed in there? What my greatest sin was? It was how many times I let you down. I can’t do that again. What happens when you decide I can’t be trusted again? Who are you gonna turn to this time instead of me? Another angel? Another vampire?”

Dean: “Just hold on. Do you seriously think that? Because none of it, none of it is true. Listen man, I know we’ve had our disagreements. Hell, I know I’ve said some stuff that set you back on your heels but Sam, come on … It has never been like that, ever. I need you to see that. I’m begging you.”

I needed my box of tissues right there… and another glass of wine :cry: :cry:

In the comments above there are a couple of themes being rehashed. People are talking about the unfairness of Dean bringing up the wrongs Sam did as ‘Soulless Sam’. But, don’t forget, that period of Dean’s life was very traumatic. He was turned into a vampire and almost hurt Lisa & Ben (which was the beginning of the end of his relationship with them). My perception of Dean’s refusal to let this go is not that Dean blames Sam for any of it, but that he just can’t help himself from time to time. I’ll use another quote from Jeremy Carver to back this up: “To be completely frank, they’re brothers, so they wouldn’t be brothers if they didn’t occasionally slip into great levels of immaturity.”

Regarding Sam not looking for Dean (and at the risk of creating another hornet’s nest), I can accept that he thought Dean was dead and didn’t look (I accepted it a while ago, but even more so now). Why? Because of what Sam said about his greatest sin – always letting Dean down. When the Trickster killed Dean, Sam was so angry that he almost lost himself in his rage. When Dean went to Hell, Sam tried everything to get Dean out and then ended up trusting and being manipulated by Ruby. When the apocalypse was imminent, Sam tried to redeem himself by jumping into the cage with Lucifer. But then he came back without his soul and wreaked havoc (NOT HIS FAULT I know, but Sam felt guilty about it).

So why wouldn’t Sam try to do something different on this occasion, when he thought Dean was dead? He tried to go and live a normal life, even though he was broken, even though he probably wanted to tear heaven and hell apart to get Dean back. Because he'd done those things in the past and let Dean down in the process. From his perception, he did the right thing. But, once again, it backfired ... from Sam's perception.

For me, season 8 had a few rough spots and some shaky writing, but, overall, I loved it! It was a big improvement over seasons 6 & 7 ... and I can't wait for season 9 :D
Manstrad
# Manstrad 2013-05-16 18:58
About Dean saying to Sam "loosing your soul"...
Dean was just mentioning (enumerated) Sam's sins, not blaming. I admit, it was a bad choice of words, probably he meant, when you loose your soul, or something like that, meaning, "the things you did when you didn't have a soul", I saw it like that, kind of just mentioning the tittle of the sins, since he just said "Ruby" and nothing else...
Hannah
# Hannah 2013-05-16 21:46
I think Crowley can still be cured. Dean could do it without closing the gates of hell.
E
# E 2013-05-16 23:02
I absolutely loved this episode! LOVED! The last 10 minutes just about killed me. It was some of Jared's best work to date. Sam's response to Dean telling him that completing the trials would kill him and Sam saying "so?" in that completely perplexed way, as though he couldn't, for the life of him, figure out why that might be a problem....just , ugh. :cry:

Like many others here I had some problems with the first half of the season (no, really... I did, shocking, I know) and I still am not thrilled with the decision to have Sam not look for Dean and for Sam to have had so little voice this year. But it occurred to me in this episode that it maybe had to be that way. Because we have had so little of Sam in the preceding episodes, these little golden pearls of insight we've been getting recently are so much more sweet, so much more meaningful because of his previous silence. Some fans may still not feel that the lack of voice was worth the payoff, but I am actually even a little (more than a little) satisfied! :eek: The revelations that Sam has felt unworthy and dirty since he was a small boy and his confession to Dean that he feels his greatest sin has been in letting his brother down contained so much more power and punch because we've been waiting all season (maybe even SEASONS) to hear it. I don't think a glimpse into Sam's POV has ever felt this powerful, shocking or meaningful before. It was so incredibly satisfying to hear, from the man himself, those things he is most sorry for and that it all hinges on how he feels that he will never be the brother that he feels Dean deserves. Deep, deep down, underneath the stubborn man who goes his own way, the man who makes mistakes and who craves a normal life is still the small boy who worshiped his older brother, who tried to be just like him, who had followed him around since he was four. Sam's notion i that he has not, and cannot measure up to his brother's ideals is his greatest burden, and in his mind is his greatest sin; worse than Ruby and Lilith and Lucifer.

I agree with Tim though, this whole topic needs to be fleshed out later to be fully satisfying, but what a great start! A greater exploration into the why's of Sam's lost year sounds like a great topic for discussion to be had while Sam recovers from the trials. If either JC or BE writes the season 9 opener it will hopefully be equally satisfying as these last few episodes have been.
LEAH
# LEAH 2013-05-17 00:11
I love this post E. I also think that, as hard as the early season was, the last few episodes wouldn't have had the emotional punch it did had we not been through it. Your second paragraph brought a tear to my eye. The brothers slowly, excruciatingly finding their way back to each other was painful and powerful. The show does need to address these things further next year.
E
# E 2013-05-17 09:07
Thanks Leah! I've re-watched that scene like 10 times! It's about time that Dean had an inkling about how his offhand comments are wearing Sam down in a real and devastating way. Dean may know in his own mind that Sam always has been and always will be first with him, but when he doesn't show it, when he continues to jab and snark and confide in others first how long will it take for the doubt to creep into Sam's mind? Its obvious now that that doubt has been lingering, festering in Sam for years. Clearly Sam's confession to Dean goes all the way back to Season 4 and Dean choosing Castiel over his brother. I don't want this to seem like blame; I am not blaming Dean. He choose Castiel over Sam the same as Sam choose Ruby over Dean. It was all part of the apocalypse plan, and both brother's acted just as they were supposed to at the time. It's just that in season 4, when Sam choose Ruby over Dean, that situation was well documented and Dean's feelings about it made quite clear. But at the same time when Dean choose Castiel over Sam, the ramifications of that choice on Sam were never explored until now. The more I think about it, the more I am in awe of Mr. Carver and his ability to create this new story while referencing and even fixing past story. Perhaps Sam's reaction to Benny was so extreme because he has never recovered or reconciled how he felt when Dean choose Cas over him and to see it happening again was basically Sam's undoing. Benny was actually a clever device to dredge up the deeper more complex problem of the breakdown in the boys relationship during season 4. Sam's reaction to Benny makes so much more sense now! Very intricate and satisfying stuff! How I hope that they touch upon this whole thing in a real way at the start of season 9. How those boys need to talk still!
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-05-17 11:05
E, while I never really had a problem with Sam's not trusting Benny, this scene did make his refusal to even consider trusting him make so much more sense. And when I think of it, it helps with the most annoying thing about SC which was Sam's only defense being, "You had Benny!" But if he really saw that as once again someone being chosen over him, especially a monster, in addition to be lied to, that would seem like a huge betrayal. Whereas Dean and the audience just saw it as a small deception.
olivia forest
# olivia forest 2013-05-17 15:52
beautifullyBEAU TIFULLY said e! i agree 110% with everything you just wrote. thank you for expressing it so clearly and eloquently. i, too, felt sam's disclosures were sosoSO much more powerful because he hasn't had a voice for so very long -- to the point i almost stopped watching (blasphemy!) the show. but starting with the henry winchester episode i began sensing the show's long lost magic was on its way back. ( i don't mean this as a dig to prior creative heads of state -- just an observation from my particular lens.) anyway, their must have been a well-thought out brilliance to the madness of the early part of the season -- with a very big pay off over the past several episodes. really, i can't compliment jeremy carver enough -- even with the inconsistencies and a few stinkers along the way -- i think the guy is pulling a rabbit out of his hat. it must be incredibly challenging to carry on the spirit of the original show while implementing your own bold creative vision. rock on!
dmonk
# dmonk 2013-05-16 23:40
The most compelling part of these entire trials at this point are that the demon trials were probably NOT meant to be completed. They may be God's great lessons.

Remember how Metatron said you should be able to deal with the consequences? Because closing hell may be exactly the opposite of what you would want to do.

Another hint is that Dean told Sam that he shouldn't risk it, because they now have greater tools than ever to work on demons.

1) Hellhounds - to learn how to kill a hellhound. this is the first weapon to defeat evil. Remember, closing hell is NOT the ideal path. That's not apparent yet in the first trial, but stay focused. Assuming you later find out in the next trial that you indeed do not want to close hell down, you will need this tool. After all, hellhounds are not souls that can be saved...they are just pure evil. This is the first weapon.

2) Saving a soul from hell. By working on the trials, they learn how to save a soul from hell. In order to keep saving souls from hell, the gates cannot be closed.

3) To cure a demon This is better than smoking them or killing them outright. Or even shutting them out. Curing a demon is the most noble of all roads.
Moose Girl
# Moose Girl 2013-05-17 00:52
Sam's condition has me intrigued. Could his pain be related with the fall of the angels? Did anyone notice that he flinched when one of the angels hit water? Is it possible that there's something angelic in him now? After all, the trials must have had some effect on him, completed or not. Castiel said that Sam was changing into something. Something what?

What an irony if Sam is angelic now, considering that he had demonic blood once. Whatever it is, I hope they don't just sweep it under the carpet and put Sam back on his feet as if nothing had happened, after all the talk about what the trials were doing to him. :-?
Lloyd
# Lloyd 2013-05-17 01:26
This was my biggest question and concern at the end of the finale, besides just "What just happened?".

I consider myself to be a fan of both brothers equally, but my roommate is an avid DeanGirl and that was her biggest question as well. We both wanted to know what in the world is going on with Sam. We went back and re-watched it to try to figure it out. We assume the timeline works that the minute the spell completed and the angels started falling that that's right after Sam decided to "let it go" and then he started to not be able to breath (what it seems like was happening) anymore, and then when the first angel hit the ground he flinched as if he could feel it. So what in the world is that about?
olivia forest
# olivia forest 2013-05-17 15:20
the flinch when the angel hit the water -- i noticed the same thing. intriguing. i'm with you, moose girl, i hope the storyline with sam continues and there isn't an instant "heal" with no other repercussions (good or bad). ; )
Moose Girl
# Moose Girl 2013-05-17 17:43
Seriously, I hope it's not the Hell memories all over again. I mean, we were repeatedly told of the horrors that would come if Sam ever remembered his time in Hell. Dean was worried sick. Then Sam finaly got his memories back - with a little help from Castiel - and exactly nothing happened. Sam was perfectly all right, thank you very much, for almost the entire season until his story was miraculously resolved in a single episode. It's true that we had the pleasure of Mark Pellegrino's (delightful) presence, but it was not good enough top me.

I don't mean that Sam must be sick all the time, though I confess that I love concerned big brother Dean to bits. But I watch this show for the drama, and miraculous cures don't produce good drama. I'm hoping for a decent resolution this time.
Navi
# Navi 2013-05-17 01:32
I wanna know who is watching all the human souls in heaven, I still remember Ash saying that he couldn't find the Winchesters there. wouldn't it be cool if Bobby led a revolt against Metatron in heaven? Also, would it affect seraphs and other celestial beings too? Is Joshua human? Because that would be awesome. What about the angels in the box (Lucifer and Michael), Do they still have their Grace? Will a war ensue on earth between former angels/deamons/ humans? If the deamons really wanted to they could just exterminate all the angels now that they're mortal and have no "powers". I can't imagine the angels against humanity aren't going to try and take over Earth either. Where's all that Grace? If Metatron has it, what's he going to use it for?

Also, anyone else notice that we're getting close to the date explored in the end!verse?

ALSO, also, Where is the antichrist? That would be a powerful weapon for either side, I simply don't believe that some being isn't going to go look for him.
kaj
# kaj 2013-05-17 01:37
Okay, highlights!!

Love the last hug!!!! The best hug throughout the season. I guess there's a reason why the first hug was so awkward. So we can compare it to the last hug.

The brotherly moments were Awesome!!! My third fav lines after the Stone number 1 and the hellhound.

I think Dean still thinks that Cas was in heaven and throwing Angles out.
Tristan
# Tristan 2013-05-17 08:07
Whatever happen to chuck, apparently he wasn't just a prophet and also what happen to the boy who was the anti-christ, there are a lot of loose ends from previous seasons that haven't been accounted for, but I'm looking forward to next season
paloma
# paloma 2013-05-17 17:25
I have to ask, and someone please answer me, when Dean chose Cas over Sam? It hasn't any logic.
love2boys
# love2boys 2013-05-17 18:09
I believe Dean going with Cas was a writer's device for an exciting way for Dean to learn that the ritual would kill Sam and then he could run in and yell, "Sam, stop!" It parallels season 4.

Just a thought.
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-18 17:39
Just in reference to the inclusion of Sam's soullessness as being his fault; I think the problem is that Carver needed to put together a good number of accusations that Dean could throw at Sam, simply to allow Carver to play out the contrived brother drama that he was going for during this season, so the soulless thing was just tagged on to lengthen the list of Sam's "betrayals" towards Dean.
X
I really wonder if the writers are aware of how fans who have watched the show from the beginning are attuned to all the bits and pieces of canon.
X
Maybe the writers think we don't pay attention or forget how certain continuities have played out in the past, not just the ins and outs of Sam's blameless soullessness, but other tit-bits like the Grand Canyon, the reverse exorcism, the fact that Crowley killed a demon in season seven because it didn't respect the standard ten years when it made a deal for souls, and then we see Crowley himself double-crossing on Bobby's deal; the fact that Kevin was a Vegan in s7 and now he tucks into hot dogs, etc, etc.,etc.
X
There's a never ending list if we go into details; not to drag up Sam's not looking again, which I just can't accept.
X
When you have built up a world as the previous writers have done in SPN, IMO the writers have to keep faith to that world and when they do add stuff on, it has to make sense.
The writers this season have not done that, and that is one of the many reasons IMO that s8 is not a super season.
X
As for the brother scene at the end , it was a truly touching moment, but did the writers have to bring Sam to the point of death for the brothers to open up to each other?
I remember how beautiful the scene at the end of season two was after Azazel had been killed, when standing beside the Impala Dean tells Sam that his job is too look after him and Sam answers him with " You've saved my life over and over. I mean, you sacrifice everything for me. Don't you think I'd do the same for you? You're my big brother. There's nothing I wouldn't do for you. And I don't care what it takes, I'm gonna get you out of this. Guess I gotta save your ass for a change."
Then the brothers exchange a glance and Dean gives us a perfect smile. Sigh. :)
Moose Girl
# Moose Girl 2013-05-18 22:18
Season 2 is my favorite season. It had a magic that was somehow absent from later seasons. :-) Hopefully the boys' relationship can return to being what it was back then. Maybe not the same, because they've been through so much ever since, but at least restore the same sinchrony they used to have.
isleofskye
# isleofskye 2013-05-19 02:26
reply Moose Girl.
Hi,
I agree wholeheartedly, S2 was a wonderful season as were all the seasons one to three. :)
X
Having said that, I have enjoyed all the later seasons too, because even although they haven't always been perfect, the brothers' relationship always had a logic and reason to it, even when they were at odds with each other.
X
This season that all changed with Sam not loooking for Dean and the utterly contrived brother tension. I hardly recognised my brothers any more; both were so OOC.

I get that the boys are older and no-one, not even the magical Winchesters, can turn back time but one would think that after all they have been through, all the time they have spent together during the past seven years that they would finally be good with one anothe; have cultivated faith and trust in each other.

I was expecting the brothers to take on a quest, an Indiana Jones adventure, with mysterious tablets and clues to the mystery that came out bit by bit and brought us to a gran finale.

Possibly that's why I can't like this season because instead of the brothers being more 'mature', we have had them squabbling like children over Benny, Amelia and past'wrongs' which Dean had already given a blanket apology to over Rufus' grave in s6.
X
I'm just disapponted in what Carver has given us. I expected episodes the caliber and sensitivity of AV Supernatural Christmas but all we got was this hotch-potch of a season.
X
If season nine picks up, I will be the first to be thrilled but if it goes even more downhill with less brothers, then I will remain at the end of season seven where a smart Sam realises his brother is in Purgatory, goes to a handy rogue reaper, slips in easily , gets his brother out and they go off in the Implala, doing what they always have; killing evil and saving things.

Sorry for the rant and I hope that as you say we get that wonderful sinchrony they once had, back. again. :roll:
Moose Girl
# Moose Girl 2013-05-19 18:10
You have nothing to apologize for. It seems we have similar feelings. I'm a total fan of Seasons 1 and 2, when despite their differences the bond between the boys never failed. I don't know why, but Season 3 didn't feel the same, despite some great moments. From season 4 onwards, the distance and coldness between them were almost palpable sometimes. Swan Song, though unbearably sad, was a relief because it seemed they had fallen in love again.

Unlike many others, I enjoyed the first half of Season 6 (minus Lisa/Ben). Souless Sam was intriguing (and sexy!!!), Jared was amazing, and I was excited about what would come next. The second half fo the season should have been about the mending of the damaged relationship after Sam regained his soul. Instead, Castiel and his heavenly war took center stage, with teh brothers' story taking back seat. The Sam's wall thread was poorly dealt with, as was his character, I love both brothers, but I'm a diehard Sam fan so it was extremely frustrating to me. About half Season 7, I finally decided that I'd had enough.

It wasn't until mid season this year that I started watching again. I was pleasantly surprised to see the improvement in the relationship, not to mention that Sam is a character again, with an important part to play, something that I didn't see under Gamble's rule.

I understand your complaints. This seaon was not perfect, but it gave me hope. That said, I don't want to be disappointed with Season 9. I want it to be about the brothers' journey, not about angels, demons and whatever. I borrow Dean's words here: theres' nothing I would place in front of my boys.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-23 18:50
i also thought it went back to dean trusting in cas in s4. there were so many times that sam asked dean to trust him, but dean wouldn't....but dean didn't hesitate to trust in cas...

but i was also thinking that maybe in on the head of a pin, sam didn't leave the hospital when cas showed up...i always thought that it was possible that sam heard the conversation dean had with cas...that would've hurt sam...dean confiding in cas instead of sam with something so important and personal....

look at how many cas and dean moments there have been that bothered the fandom...where sam is made to conveniently leave the room....i can't help but wonder if any of those moments bothered sam.... :cry:
Moose Girl
# Moose Girl 2013-05-23 19:03
Good point. I remember having been very upset that Dean was made to wake up in the hospital with Castiel, not Sam, by his bedside. To be honest, season 4 is not one of my favorite seasons. It felt like the show was trying to replace Sam with Castiel in Dean's affections. Then when Dean so easily let go of the Amulet to Castiel, I was really angry. Sam could have felt betrayed too. Who knows?
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-23 21:28
i know i'm kind of going off topic, but since this is all about the speculating.... .

i have a scenario that keeps running through my head..we all know that this was part one of a part two eppy...that is what a cliffhanger basically is...so i'm not without hope that our questions will still be answered...like who was watching sam, and who told benny about the portal....to name a couple...

here is what i think...just speculation of course...

we know that metatron has been planning a payback for some time now...we also know he loves stories...what i think....

i think metatron read chuck's books. i think metatron has always known about the winchesters and were enamored of them....the winchesters are the epitome of humanity...what God wanted all angels to love and to protect...i think metatron may have been relying on the winchesters as part of his plan to expel the angels from heaven...or at the very least, metatron wanted the winchesters out there doing what they do best...hunting evil and saving people.

i think it was metatron who told benny about the portal. i also believe metatron put the dog in front of sam's car, because it's my firm belief that sam was so broken, that he was actually going to drive off a cliff or something....hi s talk in heartache about suicide leads me to believe this... i think riot saved sam's life. i think amelia helped...i think being with amelia gave sam the chance to save someone...to focus on someone other than himself and his own pain...she gave him a place to run and hide....all the meanwhile giving sam the time he need to gain his strength back..he found the will to survive and move on and ultimately he was able to face reality again....recogn izing that he didn't belong with amelia, he needed to get back to his life.

i still think it's possible that metatron helped sam see that because i think metatron used amelia's father as a vessel and it was him who laid the true reality out for sam....i also think metatron brought back don....

again, this is all gut feeling....but until show proves otherwise, this is just as likely a scenario as any other...so i'm sticking with it...

my hope is that metatron will confront dean for the tablet. that he will offer to heal sam for it...i'm also hoping that during that conversation metatron will bring up that dean should be greatful to him because he saved both him and sam....and then when dean asks why...metatron confesses to everything...

what are the chances that the season opener can start out like that?
Grace232
# Grace232 2013-05-23 23:33
nappi815 - that is brilliant! However, I have been disappointed in my hopes for Sam motivation while Dean in Purgatory too many times, so I am in a take what they give me mode, and refuse to get my hopes up about an explanation like that. Instead, I am going to bask in my joy from the season finale. I can live with them never explaining. (I hope you are right, or there is some other explanation coming. NOT getting my hopes up again. NOT getting my hopes up again. . .)
Amyh
# Amyh 2013-05-24 18:15
NaQuote:
i know i'm kind of going off topic, but since this is all about the speculating.....

i have a scenario that keeps running through my head..we all know that this was part one of a part two eppy...that is what a cliffhanger basically is...so i'm not without hope that our questions will still be answered...like who was watching sam, and who told benny about the portal....to name a couple...

here is what i think...just speculation of course...

we know that metatron has been planning a payback for some time now...we also know he loves stories...what i think....

i think metatron read chuck's books. i think metatron has always known about the winchesters and were enamored of them....the winchesters are the epitome of humanity...what God wanted all angels to love and to protect...i think metatron may have been relying on the winchesters as part of his plan to expel the angels from heaven...or at the very least, metatron wanted the winchesters out there doing what they do best...hunting evil and saving people.

i think it was metatron who told benny about the portal. i also believe metatron put the dog in front of sam's car, because it's my firm belief that sam was so broken, that he was actually going to drive off a cliff or something....his talk in heartache about suicide leads me to believe this... i think riot saved sam's life. i think amelia helped...i think being with amelia gave sam the chance to save someone...to focus on someone other than himself and his own pain...she gave him a place to run and hide....all the meanwhile giving sam the time he need to gain his strength back..he found the will to survive and move on and ultimately he was able to face reality again....recognizing that he didn't belong with amelia, he needed to get back to his life.

i still think it's possible that metatron helped sam see that because i think metatron used amelia's father as a vessel and it was him who laid the true reality out for sam....i also think metatron brought back don....

again, this is all gut feeling....but until show proves otherwise, this is just as likely a scenario as any other...so i'm sticking with it...

my hope is that metatron will confront dean for the tablet. that he will offer to heal sam for it...i'm also hoping that during that conversation metatron will bring up that dean should be greatful to him because he saved both him and sam....and then when dean asks why...metatron confesses to everything...

what are the chances that the season opener can start out like that?
Nappi, I've this scenario playing out in my head regarding Metranon since his turncoat reveal. if it happsn I dont think it will happen in the beginning of the season. I sort of see it where the boys and Cas have spent months trying to stop ol Marv and metranon figures he can't leave them alone cause they are messing up his plans. So he however...has them trussed up or whatever. And he does the Big Bad Guy Monologue.

Metranon is all upsrt. Going on "is this the thanks I get for savingt your lives? Dean snarks. Sam asks what the hell is he talking about. MAtranon hold up the SN books. He's read all of them. Figures out they would be perfect in implementing his plan. He decides to give Sam the way to save dean but something happened. Sam would grab onto it and then FREEZE UP. Then discard it. Metranon sent a couple other plays toward Sam. According to everything he's read espceially in S4 Sam should have just rolled with it no questions. And then Sam did something more surprising. He tried to drive off a cliff. So Metranon thew a Dog in front of him...and it worked because he knows Sam cant resist a dog. But then Sam again didn't do what he expected. And settled down. But Metranon figured at least he knew where Sam was when he got Dean.

So metranon decided to findCas in Purg, tell him how to get Deaqn out. But Cas was staying away from Dean so Metraon had to pick a purg native. It took like six monsters before Dean actually listened to one and the plan worked.

Except Sam was playing house with the vet. So he brought Don back to life, pretended to be Amelias dadto wake SAm up. Samm would go back to the cabin where Dean was. And FINALLY Metranons plan was FINALLY in motion.

Basically Metranon uses the SN books as a guide on how to manipuate the Winchesters. But they kept doing stuff he didn't except. :)

i'm hoping its by mid season at least.
Amyh
# Amyh 2013-05-24 18:33
NaQuote:
i know i'm kind of going off topic, but since this is all about the speculating.....

i have a scenario that keeps running through my head..we all know that this was part one of a part two eppy...that is what a cliffhanger basically is...so i'm not without hope that our questions will still be answered...like who was watching sam, and who told benny about the portal....to name a couple...

here is what i think...just speculation of course...

we know that metatron has been planning a payback for some time now...we also know he loves stories...what i think....

i think metatron read chuck's books. i think metatron has always known about the winchesters and were enamored of them....the winchesters are the epitome of humanity...what God wanted all angels to love and to protect...i think metatron may have been relying on the winchesters as part of his plan to expel the angels from heaven...or at the very least, metatron wanted the winchesters out there doing what they do best...hunting evil and saving people.

i think it was metatron who told benny about the portal. i also believe metatron put the dog in front of sam's car, because it's my firm belief that sam was so broken, that he was actually going to drive off a cliff or something....his talk in heartache about suicide leads me to believe this... i think riot saved sam's life. i think amelia helped...i think being with amelia gave sam the chance to save someone...to focus on someone other than himself and his own pain...she gave him a place to run and hide....all the meanwhile giving sam the time he need to gain his strength back..he found the will to survive and move on and ultimately he was able to face reality again....recognizing that he didn't belong with amelia, he needed to get back to his life.

i still think it's possible that metatron helped sam see that because i think metatron used amelia's father as a vessel and it was him who laid the true reality out for sam....i also think metatron brought back don....

again, this is all gut feeling....but until show proves otherwise, this is just as likely a scenario as any other...so i'm sticking with it...

my hope is that metatron will confront dean for the tablet. that he will offer to heal sam for it...i'm also hoping that during that conversation metatron will bring up that dean should be greatful to him because he saved both him and sam....and then when dean asks why...metatron confesses to everything...

what are the chances that the season opener can start out like that?
Nappi, I've this scenario playing out in my head regarding Metranon since his turncoat reveal. if it happsn I dont think it will happen in the beginning of the season. I sort of see it where the boys and Cas have spent months trying to stop ol Marv and metranon figures he can't leave them alone cause they are messing up his plans. So he however...has them trussed up or whatever. And he does the Big Bad Guy Monologue.

Metranon is all upsrt. Going on "is this the thanks I get for savingt your lives? Dean snarks. Sam asks what the hell is he talking about. MAtranon hold up the SN books. He's read all of them. Figures out they would be perfect in implementing his plan. He decides to give Sam the way to save dean but something happened. Sam would grab onto it and then FREEZE UP. Then discard it. Metranon sent a couple other plays toward Sam. According to everything he's read espceially in S4 Sam should have just rolled with it no questions. And then Sam did something more surprising. He tried to drive off a cliff. So Metranon thew a Dog in front of him...and it worked because he knows Sam cant resist a dog. But then Sam again didn't do what he expected. And settled down. But Metranon figured at least he knew where Sam was when he got Dean.

So metranon decided to findCas in Purg, tell him how to get Deaqn out. But Cas was staying away from Dean so Metraon had to pick a purg native. It took like six monsters before Dean actually listened to one and the plan worked.

Except Sam was playing house with the vet. So he brought Don back to life, pretended to be Amelias dadto wake SAm up. Samm would go back to the cabin where Dean was. And FINALLY Metranons plan was FINALLY in motion.


i'm hoping its by mid season at least.
nappi815
# nappi815 2013-05-26 12:52
so i'm watching the great escapist for like the hundreth time and i just noticed something...wel l i've noticed it before but it hasn't clicked until just now...i guess because i've watched sacrifice a thousand times....

i kind of got the feeling at the end of sacrifice that sam's dropping to his knees in pain happened at the same time the angels were being cast out from heaven....i was thinking that sam could feel the angels pain....a change that happened because he undertook the trials...

i just finished watching the great escapist....and in the scene where the boys are confronting metatron...just after cas puts the bullet in ion's eye and kills him, right at that same moment the scene goes back to sam and dean and you see sam wincing in pain....

if someone else wants to take a look at that scene....i'm beginning to think that sam does have some kind of connection with the angels....that he can feel their extreme pain or sense their death....

what do u think? am i seeing what's not there?
eilf
# eilf 2013-05-26 13:48
Oh so maybe when Dean says 'let it go' and Sam seems ok for a moment and then collapses that is the moment that Metatron took Castiel's grace?