Sometimes this show just blows my mind. Lucky for me, it’s been doing that a lot this season. It’s been awhile since we talked about the tablets, Naomi, Cass or Crowley. So to have all these threads come together in one episode was really exciting.

I knew “Goodbye Stranger” was going to be good from the opening scene. I’m pretty sure my mouth hung open for that entire first commercial break. Finally our questions were answered about what exactly Naomi wanted from Cass. She wanted him to kill Dean. And she made him practice. A lot. So here’s my first question; why Dean? Well, I guess the question should actually be, why JUST Dean? Cass was supposed to be protecting the angel tablet from getting taken by Crowley. That makes sense. The angels wouldn’t want demons holding the instruction manual from closing heaven. But why keep the information from Sam and Dean? Is it just because Naomi wanted Cass to bring the tablet straight to heaven without any trouble from them? I think there’s more to it than that. It seems Cas was instructed to keep that tablet away from Dean specifically. And his training seemed pretty Dean-specific. So what does this tablet have to do with Dean? My initial thought was that maybe he could read it. But that would make him a prophet and there aren’t supposed to be more than one of those at a time. Plus, Dean was touching the tablet at one point and nothing happened. There was no grand light or shaking earth. But Dean has been connected to heaven and angels since Cas gripped him tight and raised him from perdition. And if you believe in the idea of his destiny, the connection started much earlier than that. So a connection to the angel tablet wouldn’t be too surprising. I just can’t for the life of me figure out what that connection may be. What do you guys think? Why was Naomi so focused on Cass killing Dean? And why did Cass want to protect that tablet from Dean?

There is always the possibility that I’m reading too much into this. The answer could be more simple. Maybe Naomi and Cass are more concerned with Dean because Sam is in a weakened state. Cass said that Sam was damaged in ways even he couldn’t repair. So maybe Sam is no longer seen as a threat? I personally can’t believe that. Even if he’s physically weakened his mind is sharp as ever. And let’s be honest, Sam Winchester’s weakened state is still a heck of a lot stronger than most people’s regular state. Still, it’s a possibility. So, is anyone else worried that Sam’s weakened physical state will spread as the trials go on? Sam has quite a history of mental issues and I worry that these trials will prey on that weakness. Either way it sounds like he’s going to need to lean on Dean. And Dean has promised to carry his little brother through this. Let’s just hope that isn’t too literal.

alt

As worried as I was about Cass’ own mental state, I was still happy to see him. It’s been far too long since we saw our favorite feathered friend and there were a lot of questions that needed answering. While in the abandoned warehouse with Dean I did find myself thinking we’d lost Cass forever. He was fighting Naomi but I didn’t know if it was a fight he could win. I didn’t think he would actually kill Dean, I knew he could resist that but I didn’t think he would be able to break the connection with Naomi. The whole scene was very reminiscent of Swan Song, don’t you think? And once again Dean was able to get through to Cass the way he did with Sam. And thank goodness he did because Cass was one strike away from killing Dean. But he was able to break the connection somehow. How did he do that by the way? It seems like touching the tablet was all it took for him to break free. So why would Naomi send him to retrieve it? She must not have realized what touching the tablet would do. Now that Cass is in possession of the tablet, and on the run, I wonder when we’ll be seeing him again. Sam and Dean could really use his help with the trials and Crowley.

I never thought I’d say this but I was happy to see Meg again. You know it’s a twisted world when I see her as an ally. Not that I trusted her completely but I’ll take friends for the Winchesters wherever I can find them. I was so happy that she and Cass had a chance to sort out their tension a bit.

Cass: “If you’re referring to the pizza man, then yes, I remember the pizza man and it’s a good memory.”

I should have realized that this conversation meant Meg’s imminent death. But I really didn’t see it coming. (We all agree that she is dead, right?) To think that Meg died protecting Sam, Dean and Cass just blows my mind. What a change from the Meg we knew before! She even gave Sam a chance to talk about his desire for a normal life with the woman he loves. Not only did Meg sympathize, but she actually seemed to relate to his desire to be with his “unicorn”. And crazier still, she even referred to Cass as her own “unicorn”. I wonder how Cass will take the news of Meg’s death. What do you guys think? Were you sad to see Meg die? Do you still hate her guts?

alt

I can’t believe I’ve gotten this far without mentioning Lucifer’s crypts. I can’t even begin to imagine what might be hiding in some of those underground caves. I wonder if Sam and Dean will attempt to find the others? Now that the tablet has been recovered I think Crowley and the demons are more concerned with getting their hands on that then tracking down the other crypts. Still, I think there could be some interesting and useful stuff in those crypts.

I feel like I could go on and on about this episode but that would be no fun for you. Needless to say, I loved every second of it. I was completely engaged and entertained. What did you guys think? Any predictions about upcoming episodes? (Let’s keep things spoiler-lite or at least warn everyone!) There are so many possibilities for the rest of the season and I am excited to see how things turn out!
Voluptuous Asian Lovelies. This had me laughing.

Cass: “I’m hoping the strange-haired demon in the kitchen is more knowledgeable than the others I’ve interrogated.”

Cass: “You know, I can hear you both. I am a celestial being.”

Meg: “Hi I’m Meg, I’m a demon.”

Sam: “Wait, did you say ‘angel tablet’?”
Meg: “You know, I get why Crowley calls you ‘moose’ now.”
Am I the only one who forgot Sam and Dean didn’t know about the angel tablet?

Cass: “These wounds have festered.”
Meg: “You really do know how to make a woman’s nethers quiver.”
Cass: “I do know how to do that. Only it doesn’t usually involve cleaning wounds.”

alt

Crowley: “What’s that old expression? If you want something done right...blah, blah, blah.”

I thought it was funny how offended Meg was that Sam and Dean didn’t even look for her.

Meg: “Deep down in parts you never let see the light of day, you want to live a long life away from creepy things like me.”

I cringed watching Cas beat Dean. It was very gruesome. Not needlessly so, but it was hard to watch.

When Dean dropped the tablet, did half of it break? Or was that the rock surrounding the tablet?

Crowley: “Castiel. So that’s who’s been poking my boys, and not in a sexy way.”

Cass: “I just know that I have to protect this tablet now.”
Dean: “From Naomi?”
Cass: “And from you.”

Dean: “Listen man, I can’t take anymore lies from anyone.”
I was happy that Sam apologized. I feel like these guys are in a good place right now and that makes me happy.

Dean: “I may not be able to carry the burden that comes along with these trials, but I can carry you.”
Sam:”You realize you kinda just quoted Lord of the Rings, right?”

Comments  

mer
# mer 2013-03-21 16:29
I found myself wishing I was Meg. Would love to be sitting there, getting my injuries seen to, while on the receiving end of Castiel's melting stare...I loved how intensely he stared at her just before the next bit of action took place. That was one of my favorite few seconds of the episode LOL!
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-03-21 16:29
When Dean dropped the tablet, did half of it break? Or was that the rock surrounding the tablet?

It was just the crispy candy coated shell to the tablet that cracked; afterwards the tablet appears to be in one piece.
sofia
# sofia 2013-03-22 08:29
Thanks for clarifying! That's what I thought but I wasn't sure.
Anja
# Anja 2013-03-21 16:43
Why JUST Dean?

Well, isn't it obvious? Dean means everything to Cas, no matter if you see it as a romance, family love, friendship... Dean is just the most important thing in Cas' life. Their relationship has had me mesmerized since the time Cas decided to rebel, and they keep surprising me, with everything that they go through, but still find a way backtogether.

But I like your theory, that maybe Dean really has something to do with the angel tablet, I think it would make for an interesting storyline, if Dean would end up being the one to close the gates of heaven, the same as Sam is closing the gates of hell now.
Riley Jo
# Riley Jo 2013-03-21 16:56
Why just Dean? Because Dean is the most important person is Castiel's life. Even after practicing killing thousands, and being manipulated into feeling nothing, Cas couldn't kill Dean. In fact, Dean saying "I need you" even broke the connection. In my opinion, love broke the connection.

Really, if Cas isn't in love with Dean, and Dean isn't in love with Cas, nothing makes sense about this.
EireneS
# EireneS 2013-03-21 17:13
Loved this episode-agree with you that from the first moment I was totally involved with this episode.

Is it possible that Naomi knew Crowley when they were both angels in Mesopotamia. He has since "fallen" and followed Lucifer's path to power-better to reign in hell than follow in heaven type stuff. She has stayed an angel but one who wants power of her own in heaven-I guess there is not a lot of powerful angels left in leadership roles in heaven, and now would be her time.

I think she wants Cass to kill Dean so he is totally under her demand and control and that would prove it.

I think Cass wanted to protect the tablet from Dean because he would be more open to closing the gates of hell-he still thinks most angels are "dicks". Even though he and Sam have friends and family there.

Sam's state seems to be mainly weakened a weakened physical state-his mental state seems still sharp. So, I'm not too concerned about his mental status. A whole new trial-he's been through trials of ethics and morality, trials of mental illness, now his trial is physical.

I loved the interchange between Meg and Cass. I stopped hating her from the last episode where she was helping the guys kill Dick Roman. I love her snarkiness - she says very truthful things with no emotion and it just makes them hilarious-as an example, stating that Sam and Dean did not look for her at all even after she took bullets for them and then goes on to say something like "my heroes", all in a straight edged voice with no emotion. Great.

And her teasing conversation with Cass-absolutely wonderful. I think Cass knows she has been killed by Crowley-he is an celestial being, after all. But I do not remember if the demon Meg is dead and not able to move on to another body because the angel blade killed her or will she be able to be reintroduced to the story in another body??. And who could do such a good job as Rachel Miner?.

Loved the interaction between Cass and Dean. Hated Cass beating the crap out of Dean but when Dean says "we need you, I need you" I just broke up. Thank goodness Dean got through to Cass.

Do you think Cass will try to find Metatron? With Kevin alive, there is no one else to decipher the stones-unless it has to be someone else for the angel stone?

Loved all the Raiders of the Lost Arc references. And also that the writers seem to be referencing more of the past episodes/advent ures/people than ever before-I love the continuity this adds to the story.

A total 10 in my book.
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-03-21 17:42
Wow! I saw things differently than you, Sofia!

IMO Naomi wasn't interested in eliminating Dean. She stated that she wanted to "fix" Castiel. To Naomi, that meant getting Cas to obey whatever order he was given - just like he was when we first met him. Naomi is aware of the strength of the bond between Dean & Cas. She reasoned that if she could get Cas to betray that bond, then most likely he would obey any order. It's not about focusing on Dean over Sam. It's because Cas and Dean "share a more profound bond". So if Cas would kill Dean, Naomi would "own" his will.

The repetition of killing Dean look-alikes was to de-sensitize Cas. Doing the same thing one hundred times makes it almost automatic to do it the hundred and first time.

I thought the overwhelming power of love/family is what broke the connection between Naomi & Cas - much the same as it broke the connection between Lucifer & Sam in Swan Song.

As angels, the only thing both Naomi and Cas now share is the desire to keep the Heaven tablet a secret. If the knowledge on that tablet was "read" and known, then the chances that others will discover that knowledge and use it for their own nefarious purpose grows. That means keeping it a secret from Sam & Dean, too.

As for Meg? Remember what she said about how important it is to choose a goal that will determine all of your decisions and actions? Meg didn't give up her life for Sam or Dean or even Castiel. She died trying to fight, overcome and kill Crowley - which is the same goal she has clung to all along. The last thing she said was to gloat that Crowley had not been successful in claiming the Heaven tablet, as he wanted to do.

I may be wrong in these ideas. They are just my opinion, but they seem consistent with what we have learned so far.
sofia
# sofia 2013-03-22 08:38
You could very well be right, suzee51! It seems like I'm the only person that saw things the way I did.

It does make sense though, we know Cass likes Dean better than Sam. He's admitted it. So it would be a good way to test his allegiance to Naomi.

What really got me thinking the way I did was that there was no focus on Naomi's part on keeping Sam away from the tablet. I felt like job #1 for Cass was getting that angel tablet before the demons did and bringing it straight to Naomi. And Sam and Dean are a pretty big threat in that department. Dean was in no hurry to let Cass take the tablet upstairs and I know Sam would have felt the same way. Either of them could have been standing in the way of that tablet getting to heaven yet Naomi only focused on eliminating Dean.

I still like my theory but now I definitely see where everyone else is coming from! It's funny that I saw everything so differently.
prix68
# prix68 2013-03-23 22:09
Sofia-I had the same theory as you, especially when Cass says he needs to keep the tablet away from Naomi and specifically Dean. Not Sam and Dean. I liked the episode a lot and actually liked the Meg and Castiel moments. It will go in my favorites slot for sure. Thanks for the nice review
E
# E 2013-03-23 20:57
Hi Suzee51, this is exactly how I thought of it too. I didn't for one moment think that Naomi's agenda was to kill Dean per se, it was more to make sure that Cas would be able to obey her orders to get the angel tablet at all costs, even when faced with Dean, the one person whom Cas seems most influenced by and protective of. I think that she's less concerned with Dean as a person and more concerned with what he wants to do... which is to close the gates of hell. Now that he knows that there is a heaven tablet, she probably assumes (and rightly so) that he'll want to close the gates of heaven as well; both of the Winchester will. That's why Cas said that he had to protect the tablet from Dean now. For better or for worse, Cas and Dean are now on opposite sides of the current tablet issue. Which is really going to suck for Sam, because I think that he may need Cas's help before the season is over.
Marlla47
# Marlla47 2013-03-21 17:57
Why just Dean? Well, if Cas can kill the man he loves, the man who changed his life for better or for worse, she can make him do anything.

(she didn't account for the fact that.... well, it was the man he loves & that was enough)
BeccaB
# BeccaB 2013-03-21 19:16
suzee51 - there you go. That's exactly how I saw it. Although we only saw the last "Dean" killed, I wonder how devastating it was for Castiel to have to kill the thousand before him to become completely de-sensitized. And poor Meg, I liked her, didn't want to, but I did.

I too, wonder why Castiel feels he has to protect the Angel tablet from not only Naomi but Dean. OK Naomi I understand, but why Dean. What could he do? And would Dean, if given the chance, want to close the gates to heaven. What would be his reasoning, other than Angels are also Supernatural beings. Now I just talking to myself.

Love this season, and am going to go watch ep17 again, while I have the chance.
debbab
# debbab 2013-03-21 21:23
I agree, Sophia you've nailed it. One of the best episodes from the entire series. Need to watch again to catch the details b/c so much to digest. Meg became a heroine again. S/D had to leave her. Rachel Minor's performance was fantastic. Hope she is not really gone as her banter with Cas was superb. Her conversation with Sam- tells us how sad Sam was during his year- and his desire to be normal has not diminished but his strength has. Lots to think about exp: Sam's atomic changes- what is he going to morph into and does Dean pose a threat to that change so Naomi wants Dean out of the way b/c he protects Sam? S/D leaving Meg to Crowley. Only question was one of continuity with Crowley- thought he was a Scottsman from 1600(Fergus) and now the reference to back in the day with Naomi in Mesopotamia- who is he really? The theme of what is good/evil? References to past episodes, free will-destiny, Dean's face beaten up as a reminder of Swan Song and season(2?). Each character had a chance to show themselves. Clever writing. Needed kleenex at the end with the Hobbit speech, Cas on a bus. I wanted more. It could have been a full length feature. Kudos all around.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-03-21 22:56
Yes, I thought this was a wonderful episode :-)

Why did Cass have to kill Dean? I was wondering that myself. If the angels want Dean dead, any of them could do it... so I agree with some of the comments above. It must've been more about de-sensitising Cass.

I've had a theory all along about angel manipulation - them telling Benny how to get Dean out of purgatory and the shadowy figure outside of Sam & Amelia's house. But, that was assuming the angels wanted Sam & Dean back together. Now, with Naomi wanting Dean dead... that theory seems to be blown apart.

I love how Jeremy Carver is successfully keeping us guessing! :-?
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-03-21 23:14
Just had another thought... :-|

I'm not sure how to warn about possible SPOILER, so hope this suffices.

What if it was the soon-to-be introduced new character who told Benny how to get Dean out of purgatory and also had someone watching Sam's house. Maybe this person wanted Sam & Dean back together?

This still doesn't explain why Naomi had Cass working with Sam and Dean initially though. But maybe she needed Dean (for unknown reasons) to get the angel tablet... and then, once that was done, he was disposable. I have to say, I have a lot of theories running around in my head, but the overriding one is confusion lol :-?

But I'm loving all the possiblities!
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-03-21 23:39
One of the unfortunate problems with having a fully powered angel around is that characters have to do silly things to keep the story exciting. Cas was resisting killing Dean. If Naomi had simply said, knock him out by touching his head and bring me the tablet, Cas would have had no emotional reason to resist. Naomi didn't want Dean dead, because she wasn't trying to kill him until Sam and Dean started looking into Lucifer's Crypts. If she had wanted him dead, she didn't have to send Castiel, she could have sent one of her other minions who aren't emotionally attached to Dean.

It's just like at the end of season 6. Cas didn't have to break Sam's wall, all he had to do was teleport the boys and Bobby to Russia or heck Alaska and then start the ceremony while they were thousands of miles away.

In both cases the rational solution means the show lasts about 10 minutes tops. Season six finale, Cas transports Sam and Dean to Russia, opens the portal to Purgatory, kills Raphael and goes on a Purgatory souled frenzy while Sam and Dean try to get passports even though they are legally dead. This episode, they find the angel tablet, Dean takes it out of the angel protected box, Cas knocks Dean out and takes the tablet to Naomi. And then we watch Sam and Dean twiddle their fingers for a while, or snark at Meg. And really, if there are sigils all over a box to keep angels out, maybe we shouldn't open the box until there are no angels around, especially when the angel that is around is acting all hinky.

Narrative necessity means characters make really dumb choices. Forcing Cas to try and kill Dean was a dumb option because there were so many better ones.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-03-22 08:47
Quote:
One of the unfortunate problems with having a fully powered angel around is that characters have to do silly things to keep the story exciting. Cas was resisting killing Dean. If Naomi had simply said, knock him out by touching his head and bring me the tablet, Cas would have had no emotional reason to resist. Naomi didn't want Dean dead, because she wasn't trying to kill him until Sam and Dean started looking into Lucifer's Crypts. If she had wanted him dead, she didn't have to send Castiel, she could have sent one of her other minions who aren't emotionally attached to Dean.

It's just like at the end of season 6. Cas didn't have to break Sam's wall, all he had to do was teleport the boys and Bobby to Russia or heck Alaska and then start the ceremony while they were thousands of miles away.

In both cases the rational solution means the show lasts about 10 minutes tops. Season six finale, Cas transports Sam and Dean to Russia, opens the portal to Purgatory, kills Raphael and goes on a Purgatory souled frenzy while Sam and Dean try to get passports even though they are legally dead. This episode, they find the angel tablet, Dean takes it out of the angel protected box, Cas knocks Dean out and takes the tablet to Naomi. And then we watch Sam and Dean twiddle their fingers for a while, or snark at Meg. And really, if there are sigils all over a box to keep angels out, maybe we shouldn't open the box until there are no angels around, especially when the angel that is around is acting all hinky.

Narrative necessity means characters make really dumb choices. Forcing Cas to try and kill Dean was a dumb option because there were so many better ones.
Contrived drama with no real reason for it. A hallmark of season 8.
Ale
# Ale 2013-03-22 11:24
Quote:
Season six finale, Cas transports Sam and Dean to Russia
This isn't a move that would paralyze the Winchesters. They are very resourceful and not restrained to our mundane difficulties. They would certainly find something (a spell etc.) or someone to put them back in business pronto. Like Baltazar.

Destroying Sam's wall put him out of commission for sure and turned Dean's attention and worry to him, his always number one concern. But even that, in the end, didn't stop either.

And in this episode, we don't know why Naomi was satisfied that Cas was protecting the tablet from Dean, although Cas didn't take it to her as she demanded. He didn't give it to Dean, and that seemed to be enough for now for Naomi.

I believe that Naomi was afraid Cas would do anything Dean asked him to do. Thus, knocking Dean down and taking the tablet to her wouldn't garantee that he, in a different situation under Dean's influence, would try to recover it. And even that Cas would actually take the tablet to Naomi. She wanted to certain that Dean wouldn't have it, that Cas would not give it to Dean because he was completely under her control, and the only way to be sure of both was to make Cas kill Dean.
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-03-22 14:45
Good points. But then it may not have been about killing Dean but having firm control over Cas and having him kill Dean is a good way to prove that control. So you're right, naomi can kill dean anytime she wants. I'm pretty sure that there are a buttload of angels that would happily do it.

Lol: the whole time Dean is standing there holding the tablet I'm just sitting there thinking "put the tablet back in the box, problem solved." Also if cas can't be trusted , then why, oh why would you just skip off to be alone with the guy leaving Sam in his physically weakened state to "protect " Meg. Weren't you just hollering at Sam about getting his butt kicked by a demon earlier?)

Well, I guess it's all part of the writer's agenda to make Dean look a lot lesss bright this season. Sam fans aren't the only ones questioning the character development this season and if it wasn't for the characters being stupid most dramas would last about 15 minutes.
Ale
# Ale 2013-03-22 16:24
lkeke35, what should they do? Sit and wait for what could happen isn't their way. ;-)

Dean thought correctly that they didn’t know what to expect in Lucifer’s crypt. It might be too dangerous for weakened Sam. There were only two choices: either Sam goes or waits outside. Dean thought best, less dangerous (because they are never danger free) for Sam to wait outside (with the demon Meg, another one they didn’t know they could trust or not – bet is on!), although Sam didn’t like the thought of Dean going there ‘alone’, with a weird Cas.

He couldn’t prevent Cas from going with him, so he went with Cas. He certainly wasn’t going to wait for Cas to do everything alone. Another bet, another risk taken. I can’t see any dumb move.

Put the tablet into the box and everything is ok – really? I can’t see Cas thinking: oh, tablet is inside the box, nothing I can do, I’ll just go and leave it. There are tons of things Cas/Naomi could do to resolve the situation. And the only way Dean could prevent Cas from taking the tablet was to confront him and convince him not to. Can’t fist fight an angel. :-)

lkeke35, it’s not only you, I read many post that pointed that out – put the tablet into the box. But I cannot see how this would solve the situation.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-03-22 17:02
The box was warded against angels. If the tablet had been in the box Cas either couldn't have touched it or couldn't have opened it to get the tablet out. Cas indicated that with the wards he couldn't touch the box or transport the box. So putting the tablet back in the box would have made it useless to the angels and Cas would have no reason to kill Dean.
Ale
# Ale 2013-03-22 17:12
Cas may not be able to open it or transport it, but Crowley could so Dean could not just leave it there. He would have to take it with him. And Cas and/or the angels could easily shove Dean aside and make another human or demon open de box for them.
eilf
# eilf 2013-03-22 17:32
So if Dean put it back in the box Cas would have made Dean a hostage and called Sam in to open the box. Cas rebelled against killing Dean but he was capable of hurting him, and he would have done that.

Sam wouldn't have let Cas do the sort of damage he did to Dean if he had been there, he would have given the tablet to him.

So really NOT putting the tablet back in the box was the best solution I would think.
Ale
# Ale 2013-03-22 17:54
Good point! I didn't think that!

Man, this is getting more complex by the minute! I didn't grasp it was that complicated when I watched the episode. Thank you all for the debate here. And kudos for the writers.
Ale
# Ale 2013-03-22 18:46
It looks like Cas has something to do with the tablet. Maybe he was the only one that could take it, send it to Heaven, protect it, or whatever. That is why Naomi rescued him from Purgatory and needed to control him, not kill him.

And another thought occured to me: maybe God's plan since the beggining was not for S&D to be pivotal to the destruction of the world, but to save it! From all the wrong things that occured in the world's creation. That would be lovely!

And maybe that's why Cas was ressurected 2 or three times.
E
# E 2013-03-23 21:11
This is a great discussion! I agree that simply putting the tablet back in the box would have ultimately done nothing but possibly delay things for a bit, and pushed Cas to do something else, like hold Dean hostage or have him go grab Sam and hold him hostage to get the tablet released to him. I also noticed during the filming that Cas sort of ushers Dean away from the box while they go back and forth in their discussion of what to do with the tablet. The filming was very closely done in the scene, and I wished that there had been a long shot to show that Cas had inserted himself between the box and Dean... making it so that Dean couldn't put the tablet back in the box. At least I think that's what happened, but the editing and tight focus obscured that little detail somewhat.
prix68q
# prix68q 2013-03-23 22:25
The box was warded against angels but not demons. If Dean had just put the tablet back in the box and Crowley had shown up then he could have taken it away from both Cass and Dean. I don,t think Dean wanted to keep the tablet away from Cass permanently, just long enough to get some answers from Cass but he sure didn't want Crowley to get it.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2013-03-23 21:51
Quote:
There were only two choices: either Sam goes or waits outside.
more dangerous than sam going to the crypt.
sofia
# sofia 2013-03-22 08:41
Thanks for the warning!! I only read your first and second line! :)
lkeke35
# lkeke35 2013-03-22 14:34
Quote:
Yes, I thought this was a wonderful episode :-)

Why did Cass have to kill Dean? I was wondering that myself. If the angels want Dean dead, any of them could do it... so I agree with some of the comments above. It must've been more about de-sensitising Cass.

I've had a theory all along about angel manipulation - them telling Benny how to get Dean out of purgatory and the shadowy figure outside of Sam & Amelia's house. But, that was assuming the angels wanted Sam & Dean back together. Now, with Naomi wanting Dean dead... that theory seems to be blown apart.

I love how Jeremy Carver is successfully keeping us guessing! :-?

I don't think your theory is blown. The angels are not omniscient and don't lnow the future. It's still possible that they could have set all kinds of plans in motion and just had no knowledge of the whereabouts of the angel tablet.

They probably never thought anyone else would find out about the tablet either. The capture of Samandriel may not have been part of their calculations. I still think that a certain amount of angel manipulation is going on vis a vis this storyline.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-03-24 03:31
Maybe... I'm not sure of anything at the moment :lol:

I'm even wondering if Naomi is an angel now... and how she is connected to Crowley. I think Crowley might be a demon of the same ilk as Abaddon... but that he went into hiding as a crossroads demon when the shit hit the fan back in the day. He has since been biding his time until all the major players are out of the picture. And, if that's the case, how does he know Naomi? Could she be another powerful demon? Or something else altogether?

The biggest question, for me, is why Cass has to keep the tablet from Dean but there was no mention of keeping it from Sam. Why is it only Dean that is linked to the angel tablet? I really think this is going to be about his destiny (after all, he was the righteous man broke the first seal). I think there might be a whole lot more inscribed on the tablet about Dean's destiny.

If this is true, then it was probably someone else that orchestrated getting Sam and Dean back together.

Either way, there is a certain symmetry if Sam is the one to close the gates of hell, while Dean is the pivotal player in closing the gates of heaven (if that is what the angel tablet describes).

It's kinda fun being confused, as it allows for much more speculation :-?
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-03-22 14:58
The theory may not be blown. There may be more than one faction working in heaven. There certainly was in season four. We had the Archangels and Raphael trying to start the Apocalypse, Uriel and his faction (who disappeared never to be heard of again) wanting to release Lucifer because he was their brother and they loved him and who didn't care about the Apocalypse per se AND we had the ordinary everyday angels who thought the Apocalypse was coming on its own, but who probably wouldn't have wanted it to start unless it was God's timing, not the Archangels'

We don't know about all the angels right now, only Naomi and what she is doing and we really don't know why she is doing what she is doing. So there could be other angels at work who wanted Dean out of Purgatory for their own reasons and who wanted Sam back in the game for their own reasons. Or Naomi might have thought things would go differently with Sam and Dean. Kevin had found the demon tablet and maybe Naomi wants the Gates of Hell closed and she knew Sam and Dean would be a big help there, but she never thought about the possibility of an angel tablet that could be used against her people.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-03-24 03:40
That's true. There would definitely be factions in heaven, but that makes me wonder why they are all absent at the moment when Naomi is manipulating other angels. To be honest, I'm not even 100% sure Naomi is an angel.

Do you have a theory about what happened to Cass when he picked up the tablet? I know people are talking about him becoming a prophet or becoming human... but I wondered if he just became an Archangel. Is that even possible? :-?
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-03-22 09:22
Great review Sofia. I really liked this episode, I've watched it twice and I'll re-watch this weekend to catch all the little nuances.

I'm wondering if Naomi was training Cass to kill Dean because he is still the vessel for Michael, and therefore might be a threat to her directly? The archangels are still the most powerful of the angels, even though their numbers have twindled to near nothing after coming into contact with the Winchersters! :lol: Those two are lethal in more ways than one. :oops: I'm thinking Naomi might be working on her own agenda and needs that tablet in order to do it. As Ardeo calls them, CIAngels. Not necessarily the good guys.

I've already gushed about what I liked about the episode on Sweetondean's post, so I'll go for the technical aspect here. The director did such a great job. I loved the way the scenes between Naomi & Cass were cut together, that was way cool. Cass' training at the beginning reminded me a little of Neo's training in "The Matrix". The lighting was superd as always, Serge Ladouceur is such a genius.

I can't believe we are almost at the end! :sigh:

Oh, one more thing. Dean calling Sam Doc Holliday was inspired. Doc was always coughing up blood, he died of consumption. Suffice it to say, I'm very worried about our "little" Sammy. :eek:
E
# E 2013-03-23 21:21
Sylvie! It's so true that the biggest mistake all the Big Bad's on this show make is to underestimate the Winchesters. Crowley seems to be the only one who gets it where they are concerned: "Am I the only one who doesn't underestimate those denim clad nightmares?!" :D
Amy
# Amy 2013-03-22 11:53
The thing about Cas saying Sam as damaged in ways he couldn't repair is simply a long list of things Cas has said about Sam that wern't true.

He said if Sam drank the demon blood in s5 he would be changed forever. Sam was never changed in any way.

Castiel fought against Souless Sam getting his soul back because it would be ripped to shreds. Sam came back with flying colors, beign affected in only a couple of episodes.

Castiel isn't to be trusted in regards to Sam. EVER. For whatever reason, Castiel is jealous of Sam. But he shouoldn't worry.....Cas is the one with the profound bond with Dean. SAm is just the toy Dean wants around mostly for sentimental reasons.

Honestly....does anyone on the show see Sam as a worthy apponant? As dangerous to their plans? He certainl;y isn't allowed to affect any storylines....e ven his own. Let alone have any affect or interaction with anything concerning Dean.

And what Meg said about Sam....its NOT new information. Not to us and not to Sam. Especially if we have been watching season 8.

Like Amiela Carver has put the least amount of effort into Sams charector that he could get away with.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-03-22 12:22
I absolutely agree that Castiel has been consistently wrong about Sam. The problem is Dean and the audience through Dean's POV believe Cas's pronouncements. Cas is an angel, so he should be knowledgeable and right about Sam.

I will admit that I am very afraid that "Sam is changing at a subatomic level" is this year's "Are you sure what you brought back was 100% Sam" and/or "If Sam continues to drink demon blood, he will change forever into something you will be compelled to hunt". In other words, round 1000 of "what is wrong with Sam" and why we must distrust his every word, thought and deed. Some people have said that they believe that seeing Sam's story with Amelia would be boring, Sam is going bad because of biology and Dean is going to have to kill him or save him is far, far more boring to me. It never ends well. We are constantly shown Sam doing "shady" things without ANY insight into his reasons and Dean continues to make perfect decisions while explaining every step of what he is doing so that we don't blame him for anything and while making new friends who support his every decision. And to me, that is boring, boring, boring.
Rick D
# Rick D 2013-03-23 11:43
So true, Amy. That's the real reason that Naomi had Cas practice killing only Dean- because Sam just isn't relevant anymore. Once again he is "damaged", only this time he has literally been benched- left to wait outside and do nothing while Big Hero Dean takes care of all the manly hero stuff.

For that matter, the real reason Meg had to die was Sam told her (off camera of course) what happened in the hidden year. OMG, kill her quick, before she lets any insights into Sam slip out.

I would not be surprised if Sam does not survive this season. He either has to "die" only to be resurrected in S9 (for sentimental reasons, why else?), OR he will continue to be "damaged" in which case he might as well just sit in the batcave while Dean and Cas have adventures.
Amy
# Amy 2013-03-23 19:08
Honstly, Rick. I hope Jared figures out he needs to be loyal to himself before employors who think so little of him. I'd love to see Jared walk away from SN and get a kick ass role on The Walking Dead or similar or better show,,,and network or cable. He may not be a lead but he'll get to act with other actors ans be involved in the sotries as something other then 'plot device'
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2013-03-23 19:25
Quote:
Honstly, Rick. I hope Jared figures out he needs to be loyal to himself before employors who think so little of him. I'd love to see Jared walk away from SN and get a kick ass role on The Walking Dead or similar or better show,,,and network or cable. He may not be a lead but he'll get to act with other actors ans be involved in the sotries as something other then 'plot device'
At this point in time and given how badly JC has written for Sam, I think I have to agree with you. Right now, I wish he had gone and done the Die Hard movie. I hate seeing his character treated as if he's not important by the writers and showrunner.
debbab
# debbab 2013-03-23 22:18
I respect what you say, but here is what I am thinking. IMO the writers have been faithful to Sam's character since the pilot. He continues to crave normal and does not get it that hunting is his normal. Also faithful to the Dean character. The change has been to expand each a bit more as they developed into men from boys with distinct likes, ideas, dislikes and a brotherly bond that is tested by angels, demons, and monsters of all sort. We know they are both a combination of intellect and brawn with each having a strength in one over the over, but both are clever and strong.Sometime s I wish the writers would give Sam some better dialogue, but Dean has always been the smart ass and Sam the quiet, thoughtful of the two who holds counsel with himself. When he is souless or possessed he does have meatier lines, but that is Sam OOC. Both characters are integral for the show to work. Not thinking that the CW is slighting Jared the actor as the plots revolve around both and the central theme of family holds tight. The network pays both leads handsomely although not as much as the standard 3 non cable networks. Both J's have voiced their loyalty by signing on for 2 more seasons when they could have held out for more money or walked away in search of other projects. Both seem to know what they want and have talked about life after this show so they live in the real world and have expressed their gratitude for good fortune.I do think the network could do a better promotion of the show and that is where IMHO the network slights the fine job of cast and crew. Just airing my opinion respectfully.
elle
# elle 2013-03-23 23:40
Well said. I agree that the characters have both been well developed overall since the beginning with a great representation of how the events of the show since the pilot have affected them as the go from boys to men. I thought the closing discussion in the last episode really underscored how mature they've become, to have a reasoned chat without anger and hurt getting in the way.
elle
# elle 2013-03-23 23:37
I understand people are frustrated, and you're certainly entitled to that of course. I just have to disagree.

I took the comment about Sam being damaged in ways even Cas couldn't heal comment to mean there were serious physiological side effects of taking on these trials, which are only just beginning to manifests themselves, and that it's a "no turning back" kind of thing so of course Cas can't heal Sam. Not as a slight against Sam.

Regarding the demon blood drinking, I would argue that Sam was changed forever as a result of that. Maybe not physically forever it certainly set up a domino effect that had lasting mental and emotional consequences for Sam. Similarly, I would say that while Sam was healed eventually in terms of the soul, it too had some ripple effects on his life.

Finally, Castiel is not a psychic. At the very least when he made the demon blood comments he was still very much a loyal servant of Heaven under the old ways where his bosses were pro-big battle between Sam and Dean as Lucifer and Michael. Who knows what information was of Cas' own gainful knowledge and what came from Monday's board meetings.


I don't think Castiel is jealous of Sam anymore than I think Dean considers Sam to be a mere toy he keeps for sentimental reasons. I would argue that Sam being the One to do the trials and bath in the blood of the hellhound also says he's affecting at least one storyline.


I want to be clear that I like both Sam and Castiel. It often feels like everyone is quick to judge the worthiness of a character or their storyline merits by comparison to another character, rather than in their own right.
Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-03-23 18:48
First of all, I must say that I loved this episode. Thought it was great and addressed a lot of things. But here, I would like to offer my POV.

Honestly, I don't see either Winchester brother as up to the task, by themselves. These trials are meant to be difficult. I think it will take TEAM Winchester to pull this off. IMO, TEAM Winchester also includes assorted others (Castiel, Kevin, Garth, Charlie, etc) that we've seen this season. It may be Dean and Sam at the end, but I think it will be both of them, not just Sam OR Dean at the gates of Hell. Sam may be the one who actually shuts the gate, but Dean will be the reason he gets there and succeeds. Neither would succeed without the other.

Still love this show.
elle
# elle 2013-03-23 23:43
You make a good point here. Personally, I keep waiting to find that Dean went out and bathed himself in a hellhound and now we have two trial bound hunters. I really think the final conversation in this week's episode emphasized that in the end, these boys work best together and it always comes down to the two of them working with each other to achieve the endgame in order to succeed. And for a change heading into the last chapter of the season they are actually on the same page and in a good place in their relationship for Sam to do these trials with Dean's support.
Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-03-24 19:48
Agree with you Elle. Wouldn't it be nice to get to the end of the season and NOT have them on opposite sides of what needs to be done? ;-)
Cathy Mitchell
# Cathy Mitchell 2013-03-24 19:49
Agree with you Elle. Wouldn't it be nice to get to the end of the season and NOT have them on opposite sides of what needs to be done? ;-)