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Anyone else have their mind blown by this episode? So many of my questions were answered and now I have a long list of new ones!

We’ve all known for a while now that hunting is in Sam and Dean’s blood. According to grandpa Samuel they had ancestors hunting vampires on the Mayflower. That’s a long line of hunters on the Campbell side but it was always interesting to me how Winchester became the powerful name in hunting. I’m not confused about how the Winchester’s started hunting, we’ve all seen the pilot. I’m interested in how the Winchester name became powerful while the Campbell name sort of fell by the wayside. We can blame it on continuity, or say that this storyline wasn’t part of Eric Kripke’s original plan but I’d rather play around with this idea a bit. What do you say?

We learned way back in season 5 that Heaven ordered Cupid to bring John and Mary together. Sam and Dean needed to be born. But I’ve always wondered why it had to be John. It could have been any man, really. I do understand that Sam and Dean wouldn’t be Sam and Dean if they had a different father but hunting was in Mary’s blood, not Johns. But it seems the people upstairs knew what they were doing. John turned out to be one of the greatest names in hunting and trained his sons to carry on his legacy. And as it turns out, John had a destiny of his own too. He may not have lived up to it in the way his father expected, but fighting evil was in his blood and he found his own way to do it.

Men of Letters, it’s an interesting concept even if it’s still a little foggy at this point. I have to admit the capes had me skeptical at first. What can I say, capes make me skeptical. But then they introduced the magic and I was all in. I want to know more about this group of elite knowledge holders that can tap into the power of their own soul. And I want to know what’s in their magical box. I’m sure Sam and Dean took it straight to the coordinates given to them and destroyed it forever, but what if they didn’t?  Could this box be the makings of a season arc? It would be a great chance to take Sam and Dean in a new direction as we find out more about the Men of Letters. Maybe they would learn a little magic? I’m not sure how I’d feel about that because I do like that they are just men, not superheroes. (Even if one of them had some short-lived powers at one point or another...) I just worry that magic would give them an advantage thereby making them less badass. I guess they already do spells, and that’s sort of like magic. What do you guys think. Would you like the show to go in the direction of the Men of Letters? Do you think Sam and Dean will start doing magic? Do you think I’m jumping to conclusions?

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I really liked Henry Winchester. He had a stiffness about him, but I think that was on account of his intelligence. It seemed like he lived a regimented lifestyle, almost military-like but he was also pretty funny. He had some really good one-liners in this episode. Looks like that’s where Dean get’s his wit. He was also obviously very intelligent which must be where Sam gets it. Sam put it well calling the Winchesters the brains and the Campbell’s the brawn. Together they made the perfect cocktail of Sam and Dean. Both of them are smart, and both of them are tough but they each favor one of these attributes. No wonder Heaven demanded their existence.

I felt so bad for Henry when he realized he wasn’t going to make it back from the future. To know that John suffered thinking that his father abandoned him must have been devastating. And after reading his journal and realizing the kind of life John had, he must have felt as though he failed his son. He could have taught him things that would have made his life much less miserable. But instead John learned the hard way, like a hunter.

At first Henry was not pleased to find a family of hunters. He had a few choice words on the matter too.

Dean: “What do you have against us?”
Henry: “Aside from the unthinking, unwashed, shoot first and don’t bother to ask questions later part, not much really.”

Awkward. But he did eventually come around which I was grateful for.

Henry: “I should have known better. You’re also Winchesters. As long as we’re alive, there’s always hope.”

Did anyone else get chills from this line? I think I smell a t-shirt. I was sad that Henry had to die, but it was obvious from the beginning that he never made it back to John. And if you’re going to go out, might as well do it protecting your family. That is the Winchester way afterall.

Needless to say, I was very happy with this episode. I was worried at first because we’ve done the time travel thing before; a couple of times. And I loved those episodes so much that I worried we’d be risking it with a third attempt. But I was wrong. This episode proved that one concept can be reimagined in countless different ways without ever feeling stale. It certainly held my interest and offered new insight into Sam and Dean’s past and the ever-present idea of destiny.  

So what did you guys think of the episode? Were you as pleased as I was? Was it what you expected? Sound off below!

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There were so many great lines and moments in this episode and I’m sure I missed a few so feel free to fill in the gaps!

Sam: “Tell you what, when one of us falls out of your closet you can ask the questions.”

I loved when Henry shook the handcuffs off of himself and put them on Sam and Dean. You gotta love some good old fashion magic!

Henry: “Guess the Mayans were wrong.”

Henry: “My alpha-male monkey friend.” Poor Dean...

Henry: “Demons can’t be killed by run-of-the-mill cutlery.”

Dean: “I’m a little rusty on my boybands, men of what?”

Henry: “Operator, I need delta 457.”
Dean: “Who are you not calling?”
This line literally made me laugh out loud. Great delivery by Jensen.

Dean checking out the goth chick? I didn’t know he was into that look.

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Henry: “You boys ever exhume a body?”

I loved the incorporation of “As Time Goes By” from Casablanca. It was so sweet that John used to whistle the song from his music box and I loved that Sam and Dean recognized the tune as well.

The concept of the knights of Hell is a very interesting one. I wonder if Abadon was in fact the last one.

John used the journal that Henry ordered for himself. This warmed my heart.

Dean: “Your responsibility was to your family, not some glorified book club.”

Dean: “When my dad died, I couldn’t save him no matter how bad I wanted to. I don’t want that to happen to sammy ever. If there’s a chance that i can save him, I’m gonna do it. He’s my brother, he’s the only family I got.”

A devil’s trap carved into a bullet. Why didn’t I think of that?

Dean: “For a bookworm, that wasn’t bad Henry.”

Next week’s episode...all I got from that preview is that it involves a giant and some Nazis. Oh well, I like to be surprised! 

Comments  

Nate
# Nate 2013-01-31 18:36
THANK GOD for this review Sofia! After Ardeospina's negative revew and Alice's upcoming negative review (based on quick comments), you have restored my excitement from watching "As Time Goes By." It felt like the start of a new season, so much new exciting developments, fantastic performances by Henry and Abaddon, and J&J as good as ever. Do you agree with the "plot hole" complaints? I don't.
sofia
# sofia 2013-01-31 21:37
I haven't actually read any other reviews yet. I try not to read any reviews before writing my own so I can write them as honestly as possible. I hadn't heard the plot hole complaints, I'm sure some are valid though. When you bring in something this huge so late in the game there are bound to be plot holes.

It's hard to read negative reviews of episodes you love. I've been there too, but just remember that we are offering our personal opinions. People disagree with me every week and that's okay. That's part of what makes this site so fun.
Alice
# Alice 2013-02-01 10:07
No need to worry Nate, my review is not going to be negative. I will have a section where I point out the issues I've had with Sam and Dean's characterizatio n, but I usually have that section with an Adam Glass script.

Other than that, it'll be quite positive. Should be up in a few hours.
Nate
# Nate 2013-02-01 10:19
Hi Alice!
Glad to hear that, it makes me sad when our Fearless Leader has a negative review of an episode I love! :) As always looking forward to your thoughts.
KELLY
# KELLY 2013-01-31 18:41
I thought it was really good too. I was actually surprised when I found out it was written by Adam Glass. But I liked his first one this year too. I think Mr Glass might be brushing up on his seasons, especially 4 and 5. His last episode brought in a bunch of resentments that weren't fully resolved from those years and this episode he reintroduce family mythology and expanded on it.

I mentioned this before but I really like the way he linked the boys back to the mytharc. And like you, I liked that it really seemed to fill in some blanks that I had always wondered about.

I don't mind the thought of them using spells and things. I liked that they were always just men too, but this opens up new avenues WITHOUT giving them super powers.

I loved that "who are you not calling" line too. The look on his face was so great.

I do wish we had more time with Henry or at least that there was time in this episode for "downtime" interactions between him and the guys.
sofia
# sofia 2013-01-31 21:48
Adam Glass surprised me with this one too!
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-02-01 00:18
"Adam Glass surprised me with this one too!"

sofia: In response to your statement, may I please ask a question that has been rolling around inside my noggin' all of Season 8? Has anyone else wondered how it is that these very same writers that during Season 7 were coming up so short in providing quality episodes are now in Season 8 doing such a good job? Seriously, in Season 7 I used to cringe when I would see an episode had been written by Adam Glass or Dabb & Loflin - but this season I have been very pleasantly surprised at all of their efforts.

So my question is: what changed? Is Jeremy Carver more demanding of his writers or just more critical of what they are turning in? Or is there another explanation for this?

I would love to know why the writing has improved this season.
sofia
# sofia 2013-02-01 08:18
I would love to know too! My guess is that when they started out they weren't familiar enough with the show. You have to really understand the character's motivations to write something worth watching. And practice makes perfect I think.
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-02-01 09:51
"My guess is that when they started out they weren't familiar enough with the show."

Dabb & Loflin started writing episodes in Season 4 - the same time Carver did. So I don't think that could be the problem. I enjoyed many of their episodes right through Season 6's "Frontierland". But Season 7 they suddenly went flat, IMO.
Alice
# Alice 2013-02-01 10:12
The bonus is Dabb and Loflin are writing separately this year. IMO, Loflin is the stronger writer. I think he did an amazing job with "Citizen Fang."

Jeremy Carver is a continuity hound. He also knows how to drive a vision. The fact that Adam Glass has been on the team for three years helps too. I still think he has trouble writing Sam and Dean as characters, but he is at least this season staying with the vision Carver has set, so that's good. I still think Adam Glass' strongest script is "Mommy Dearest," but this was one of his better stories.
Nate
# Nate 2013-02-01 08:46
suzee51, I think the answer is simple: Jeremy Carver. As showrunner, the buck stops with him as far as creative direction, and he will change or rewrite any/all episodes he sees fit. NOT saying he is rewriting everything, just saying I believe he is the one tweeking the episodes to include these moments missing from Season 7 (and part of 6). Notice Jeremy has only penned one episode himself so far, and also this season he he has split up some of the writing partners and had them write episodes individually. Shaking things up is REALLY working IMO.
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-02-01 09:57
Quote:
suzee51, I think the answer is simple: Jeremy Carver.


Nate: Thanks for your input. I kind of thought this to be the case primarily because it isn't just the writing that has improved. The editing and pacing is markedly better than Season 7, too. It makes sense that the showrunner, the "overseer" who puts all the pieces together for a final stamp of approval, would have his fingers in each of these pots.

And I agree. "Shaking things up is REALLY working."
Amy
# Amy 2013-02-02 08:45
Carver has experience as a showrunner whereas Gamble did not. Whihc means Carver has experience being a leader...leadin g people, motoivating...e tc...etc.. thinks a leader does.

At Comic Con Edlund said under Carver he had brought in his first first on time ever.

Gamble i dont think is a leader/ FAntastic writer, yes. But she didn't know how to lead...or demand accountability from the other writers.

When there isn't a strong leader who knows how to get their people to do their best...or hold them accountable for their scripts, work ethics then ...well...there is late scripts, poor writing....etc..

My opinion anyway...
suzee51
# suzee51 2013-02-02 11:39
Thanks for this input, Amy. Between your comments and Alice saying: "he also knows how to drive a vision" I feel like things snapped in to a clearer focus for me.
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-01-31 18:42
This was an awesome episode!! I just read a spoiler from Robert Singer on up and coming stuff and it didn't sound like magic was coming into play but the boys are getting a new home base, a much bigger one, and have more information then they can imagine to help in their quest. He also stated that Charlie and Benny will be returning but no John.

I missed Dean checking out the Goth girl so now I'm gonna have to go and watch it again to see that. Shucky darn!!

I've seen some negative thoughts on this ep but I think they did a great job of cramming a lot of information in 42-43 minutes. We finally got some Winchester history to clear up a little of that mystery and Dean stating the fact of "saving Sammy" is still his most important task in hand.

Jensen did it again in delivering some of most heartfelt scenes both in referring to his dad and to Sammy. I also loved the final scene with Henry and him dying in Sam's arms. Jared just gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling in these kinds of situations. He's always so sympathetic and caring. These two are still the two greatest actors in any tv show out there in my book.

Speaking of books, I read the novel War of the Sons (a book based on the Supernatural series) and found it ironic (or is it?) that the character in that book was Abbadon (Don) and the boys were taught the skill of carving a devil's trap in the head of a bullet.

Quote:
So many of my questions were answered and now I have a long list of new ones!
I'm with you on this one Sofia but this is what keeps us tuned in from week to week so guess the writers are definitely doing their job.
sofia
# sofia 2013-01-31 21:55
I also loved Dean's heartfelt moments. His speech about John learning the hard way actually made me tear up a bit.

How funny about War of the Sons! I haven't read it but that's quite a coincidence.
PaintedWolf
# PaintedWolf 2013-02-01 01:52
Trucklady, that's funny. I mentioned Abbadon from War of the Sons, on sweetondean's preview, I think. I thought it was quite interesting he called himself Don!
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-02-01 11:01
Yes it took me a bit to decide to try reading them but once I did I enjoyed them. It's like a whole new episode that you can stretch into days while reading them and then to have SPN do an episode that was so closely related to one was so awesome.
aelaine
# aelaine 2013-01-31 19:00
I loved this episode too! Answered some questions and set us up for the rest of the year and longer. Lots of info, will be glad to learn of the details. The boys with their own rooms, that is great, letting them have some space for themselves finally. Can't wait to see the new "hideout" One of my favorites of the season, and its been an good one so far.
Ale
# Ale 2013-01-31 19:51
I loved the episode too!
kazkriz
# kazkriz 2013-01-31 20:44
GOSH i loved everything about this episode.... EVERYTHING!!! needless to say more. I just loved every single thing

I totally agree with your review girl!
Martha
# Martha 2013-01-31 21:21
I absolutely loved this episode! Great writing, directing, and acting! I liked when Sam and Dean said they were getting too old to dig up graves. Maybe now they will learn to become Men of Letters as they were originally intended and help carry on that tradition. Henry was able to have a family; maybe Sam and Dean can too in the near future.
Ginger
# Ginger 2013-01-31 21:27
I'm not afraid of the boys learning magic and elevating them to super-powered beings because of it, because it's been shown many times that they already know and are powerful users of magic, and specifically black magic. In the Plucky's episode, for instance, Dean worms what Howard used for conjuring the spell, takes control of the spell, reverses it and kills Howard. He had to do this, because Sam and the boy's mother were targets of the conjured spell.

I loved the episode. Great casting for Henry and Abaddon. I thought that actress brought just the right touch to the Abaddon role. I liked her, and I liked what they did with Henry's character.

I just hope the writers don't take all the potentiality afforded by this expanded mythology and waste it, like they have done so many times. It's exciting and fresh, and I hope it is wisely used.
sofia
# sofia 2013-02-01 08:20
I agree Ginger. It would be a shame to waste this new material!
nickmaniac
# nickmaniac 2013-01-31 21:36
I enjoyed the episode too, though I'm surprised they chose to insert it in the middle of the season when it feels so much like a season opener. But hey, what's SPN if not surprising? :) I enjoyed Alaina Huffman's creepy Abbadon - nobody seems to have mentioned that she was the (initially-relu ctant-but-gradu ally-stepping-u p-to-the plate-until-the -show-was-cance lled) doctor on the short-lived Stargate Universe, and I was a fan of hers then, too! :)
suparna
# suparna 2013-01-31 21:39
The scene where Dean confidently walks up to the goth chick to 'highjack' her computer and then turns to Sam to do the needful!
:D
Bless!
LoveMeSomeDean
# LoveMeSomeDean 2013-01-31 22:42
Dean giving the goth chick "the silent how you doing?" Was just pure Dean and priceless!
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-01-31 22:19
I really loved this episode but I had a much different response to last week... when I was clapping my hands with glee at the pure awesomeness of it!

This week, like you Sofia, there were moments where I was a bit skeptical. There was also an overload of information crammed into one episode and I needed time to think about (and reflect on) what I had just witnessed. I even watched it again after only an hour or so... and came away from that second viewing really blown away by all the possibilities. It makes so make sense when we think back to Cupid's comment about the important of the John & Mary union. Now I'm really excited about what is to come.

Regarding the magic box, I don't think they've destroyed it. I think this has the key to the place where they'll end up staying & I think they will definitely find out more about the 'Men of Letters'. I can really see Sam in his element trying to work his way through the wealth of knowledge that was left behind... and I think (hope) that this will give him back some of the drive he needs, now that he's chosen to stay in hunting. That is such a wonderful thought... I need to see Sammy smiling more often :-)

Anyhow, I really loved it and can't wait for Ben Edlund's episode next week.
LoveMeSomeDean
# LoveMeSomeDean 2013-01-31 22:39
I too enjoyed this episode. I m not a fan of Adam Glass and was surprised he wrote this. I noticed his writer credit on my rewatch.

Serge did a wonderful job as director!

I also thought Adam finally took some time out if his busy schedule and actually watched a few early episodes of the series.

I always enjoy a good story line and this episode brought it. The introduction of Henry and the backstory of John was great to finally hear.

Jensen knocks it out of the park on every emotional scene. His comedic timing is priceless. The death scene of Henry was very touching and I love a teary eyed Sammy. The fact that Dean called Sam, Sammy in most of the episode was very touching.

I hope we do not go down the path of "magic" powers for our boys. The ability to conjure up a demon and create a hex bag is one thing but I do not want to watch Harry Potter on Wed nights.

I think this season may be on of the best seasons we have had in a few years. IMHO season 6 was less than stellar. It picked up around Caged Heat and continued to improve, but the first half of the season was not up to par.

Season 7 was OK but it was not consistently what i consider to be good or great TV.

So far season 8 has exceeded my expectations (excluding Bitten) on a continual basis. Some of the episodes will now be placed in my SPN hall of fame shows ( DVR locked). I think the writers are doing a great job this season by keeping the story line a bit more stream lined.

Great writing, great direction and of course the best dam actors on TV make for the best 42 min of TV out there.
debbab
# debbab 2013-01-31 23:06
Brawn and Brain. Dean and Sam. Explains alot about their personalities. It'sfrom the genetic fiber of Campbells and Winchesters. Jensen always has great comedic timing, his glance at the goth girl, he always has time for a girl, or a burger. Basic instincts. Drama scenes done well. Sam is always doe eyed and quiet with subtle acting in a gesture or look. Techno geek. Nice to see them working together. Sam seems like his usual self now. It looked like the scene when Sam is captured got cut from the episode to save time. Awkward. Still loved it.
debbab
# debbab 2013-01-31 22:59
two issues. Not enough rock music. How did the car window get fixed so fast? Henry should be stiff as society in the '50s was- Madmen anyone? Liked that the episode opened many story lines to propel the series. Will the lock and key be the final one? Will it intersect with the Cas and tablet stories? So many directions. Here there is a home base is store-hope Sam does not call Amelia to decorate it. Will it have demon proofing. Sam gets that he is a legacy. Dean always did get it.
Hades
# Hades 2013-02-01 07:36
I imagine its hard for a guy who always felt like a freak, found out he has demon blood in his veiens, is Lucifers vessel to get that he is a legacy? Its no wonder Sam made the comment about not being a hero, feeling like he never was one at the beginning of this season. Now at least Sam can feel like he belongs somewhere.
sofia
# sofia 2013-02-01 08:23
Good call about the window, I totally missed that.
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-01-31 23:19
Quote:
How did the car window get fixed so fast?
I'm a great believer that we don't need to see everything & we can assume some things happen while one brother is doing something else. When Dean was angry and said to Henry “Your responsibility was to your family, not some glorified book club”, he left the motel room.

Where do you think he went? What does he often do when he is upset? Fix the car! So I think that is likely when the window got fixed... just my humble opinion :-)
Nate
# Nate 2013-02-01 08:42
I agree! On my wishlist before the series is over is them doing an episode where the boys have a day off, and we see them do things like making money (pool sharking), or filling out credit card applications, or making salt bullets, or restocking the trunk! So yes, we have to assume the stopped to get the window fixed. I am sure the boys have ways to speed up the window garage to get the window done ASAP :)
Bevie
# Bevie 2013-02-01 11:05
I'd love an episode like that too, Nate. Just where is the money coming from right now? I believed last season they were living off of the dragon gold they took, but it hasn't been mentioned since Bobby stuffed their pockets with it when they traveled to the old west. Did it burn up in Bobby's house? Maybe it is hidden in the car trunk and Dean doesn't have to hustle right now.

I'd like to see them shopping at Good Will or Sally Ann for clothes. How hard would it be to find something to fit Sam?
Sneaking med supplies from a clinic perhaps? The mundane things they do every day would be very interesting to me.
Ah well!

Did enjoy the episode, for grandpa and for the fact the boys were united and on the same page and loved Dean's expression of still caring for his Sammy. Now we need to hear how Sam values his big brother and I can breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy whatever comes next. Although I do not want them to be two Harry Potters with magic wands waving! The fact they are extraordinary human beings is what makes them so awesome. They have no need to BE warlocks, wizards or angels.

it seems that Jeremy Carver is doing something right. :P
Trucklady
# Trucklady 2013-02-01 11:05
Quote:
Quote:
How did the car window get fixed so fast?
I'm a great believer that we don't need to see everything & we can assume some things happen while one brother is doing something else. When Dean was angry and said to Henry “Your responsibility was to your family, not some glorified book club”, he left the motel room.

Where do you think he went? What does he often do when he is upset? Fix the car! So I think that is likely when the window got fixed... just my humble opinion :-)
I agree with this thought completely. It makes sense that he would go get Baby fixed and since this is only 42-43 minutes of real show, they can only show so much which leaves us to use our imaginations somewhat.
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-01 20:28
Just saying that the time line would have been more realistic if Babe had tarpolin on the window, but then we wouldn't have a cool car scene with Henry and Dean talking about saving Sam. The plot they hatched, not on screen so we could be surprised, was a good one with the devil's trap on the bullet. Dean picked up good slicing skills in Purgatory as he is going to slice and dice the demon. Dean knows demons lie and sohe is prepared. When Sam and Henry are exchanged and Sam says he is sorry, Henry says"save it" at first thought he was being sarcastic, but think he was referring to the mother load. Do you?
KG_SPN
# KG_SPN 2013-02-01 21:00
I was wrong about the timing of the window getting fixed - when I re-watched the episode I realised that they drove for four hours to get to the town where the old headquarters (comic book store) was and that was before Dean stormed out of the room... but my point is still the same.

Dean would've gotten the window fixed ASAP and we don't need to see it to know that it happened. Do you remember in the episode 'The monster at the end of this book' when Sam was talking about the back window being smashed. At the time he voiced his disbelief that Dean would drive it like that.

So if Sam can't believe it, neither can I... and given Dean's attachment to 'baby', I don't think he would've driven four hours without getting it fixed first. Sometimes we have to fill in the gaps because they simply can't show everything.
sucharita
# sucharita 2013-01-31 23:47
great review.....gosh finally some positive review......I think this episode was excellent.
PaintedWolf
# PaintedWolf 2013-02-01 02:04
Hi Sofia, nice review.
Just wanted to say, I agree with you on the magic thing. I've always loved that Sam and Dean are just men. Hopefully if magic is part and parcel of this Men of Letters thing, maybe it takes a while to perfect. I'm not so sure I want Sam and Dean to be superheroes. I'm okay with just 'heroes'.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-02-01 05:26
Hey PaintedWolf
I was also so impressed with this ep (finally got to watch, my daughter and her smarts :lol: ). I also love that Dean and Sam are just men (remember they keep eachother human (a shout to SweetonDean)). However... I was just thinking.... If you look at the brothers doesn't it strike you that Dean is more Cambell and Sam is more Winchester. So taking this into account I can see Sam and his smarts taking on the Men of Letters thing and learning their ways, whilst Dean hunts. Still working as a team only they have their own focus which suits their traits.

Ps Please oh PLEASE oh PRETTY please do NOT let Amelia be pregnant. We need to start a petition, because if you look at it, it is a very smart way to continue the storyline. Only thing is Amelia is not SPN material. Sorry Amelia, loved you as the door shut on you.
Ale
# Ale 2013-02-01 06:39
I don't believe in this sharp division of roles. Yes, Sam certainly likes books and Dean not so much, but Sam is a also a great fighter. Dean is usually the front man on fights, but he also do research and come up with great plans. This became clear in this episode with Dean's plan to rescue Sam and beat Abaddon - his brain didn't shut down because Sam was not there.

Dean needs Sam to back him up on fights (this was also made clear in Torn and Frayed) and Sam needs Dean to exchange ideas - in short, they need each other in both fields. After all, they both have Mary and John's blood.

They got their strengths but they are a team above all - a FIGHTING TEAM AND A THINKING TEAM.

I think people are jumping into conclusion that the writers intend to separate the brothers into doing fixed tasks. I don't believe that is their intent. I FIRMLY HOPE it's not. Why? Because I don't like it, so I don't want to!
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-01 07:09
Hi Ale, Nice comment and I completely agree with you. It might be wishful thinking on the part of some but I think the show would lose something valuable if they went that route.
Bevie
# Bevie 2013-02-01 11:13
I never want the guys to be separated that way. It would change the whole tenor of the show for the worst in my opinion.

Dean isn't stupid and doesn't need Sam's smarts to make him a good hunter. He did just fine while Sam was at school even though he missed him terribly. And Sam can fight with the best of them and think on his feet while doing it. I can't believe the PTB would ever consider such a division. I don't like it either and am sure that is not the intended way they will go. :o
PaintedWolf
# PaintedWolf 2013-02-01 07:07
Yeah, I do think in some ways Dean and Sam are brawn and brains, but I think they are both capable of being both. I don't really like the idea of sam staying behind while Dean goes off on hunts though. I want Sam to be part of the action too. The whole pregnant Amelia thing might be smart, but I don't see how they can introduce a baby to the show at this stage, and I'm not really interested in it to be honest.
Ale
# Ale 2013-02-01 07:26
I don't really like the idea of sam staying behind while Dean goes off on hunts though. I want Sam to be part of the action too.

Neither do I.

And, please, everybody stop this pregnant Amelia conversation! Pretty please!
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-02 10:52
Sam's baby? Not in this run of the series, unless it is a finale or future shot of normalcy- or leaving the question of legacy hanging.Maybe the CW is keeping it out there for a sequel 9 years from now. I do notice that Dean usually has the scenes with children and has an affinity for them-Duh! He raised Sam. He has also stated that these kinds of connections are liabilities for hunters, so I think the writers get that piece. Sam has been a child in a man suit for the beginning of the series, that he has to grow emotionally a bit-if the writers allow it; not slamming Sam, just saying he is not usually comfortable around kids. So let's not focus on a pregnancy.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-02 11:13
Quote:
Sam has been a child in a man suit for the beginning of the series
I really disagree with this. Sam took himself off to college with no help from his family. That means that when the school closed for Thanksgiving break, or Christmas break or over summers there was NO MONEY to pay for anything. Full loads do not include room and board when school is not in session or for summer classes.

Sam was willing to stand up to his father to get what he wanted and needed that is not being a child in a man's body. Sam took responsibility for releasing Lucifer and made the ultimate sacrifice to do so. Again NOT a child in a man's body. Dean didn't have to force him to make up for what Sam did, like a parent. Sam made his amends all on his own. Sam has supported himself and found work and a way to live after Dean disappeared and Sam thought he was dead on his own, something Dean didn't manage either time Sam died.

If you had said Sam hasn't spent much time with children, I would agree but that wasn't what you said. IMHO calling ANYONE a child in man's body is an utter insult and is slamming Sam. I know you didn't mean it that way, but to me it is a huge slam on a man who in no way, IMHO is childlike or dependent.
Clarice 0909
# Clarice 0909 2013-02-01 07:16
Quote:
Hey PaintedWolf
I was also so impressed with this ep (finally got to watch, my daughter and her smarts :lol: ). I also love that Dean and Sam are just men (remember they keep eachother human (a shout to SweetonDean)). However... I was just thinking.... If you look at the brothers doesn't it strike you that Dean is more Cambell and Sam is more Winchester. So taking this into account I can see Sam and his smarts taking on the Men of Letters thing and learning their ways, whilst Dean hunts. Still working as a team only they have their own focus which suits their traits.

Ps Please oh PLEASE oh PRETTY please do NOT let Amelia be pregnant. We need to start a petition, because if you look at it, it is a very smart way to continue the storyline. Only thing is Amelia is not SPN material. Sorry Amelia, loved you as the door shut on you.
LOL with what you wrote "Loved you as the shut on you" couldn't agree more. As much as I wanted the boys to have smb to love, Amelia is not in my list neither for Sammy or Dean... they deserve so much better than her... Again - Sorry Amelia...

Sofia, I agree with you 100% - this episode had a lot of layers, and we should delve more on what they were showing us about the Winchester family tree than in the small things that didn't fit the previous seasons... I'll never forget when Eric himself told of how many time he forgot simple details of the story.. his words - "My bad, I made a mistake" - that's it, if the Master Kripke himself said that, we can overlook some things...

Everybody have a great weekend.

Cla;}
Joyful
# Joyful 2013-02-01 04:24
Thanks Sofia, I really REALLY enjoyed this episode. It gave me that inner buzz that some of the best Supernatural episodes have left me with. Awesome. Henry was great, very single minded but I loved how he came around to see what amazing grandsons he had. Very sad that he couldn't get back to John, but I couldn't imagine how things may have changed if he had!! Have watched it twice already, and I am sure I will watch it again and again - a winner! :lol:
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-02-01 08:27
Thanks for the review Sofia, it was a great read. I've watched the episode a second time and I must say that it was much better for me after a rewatch when I was working on all cylinders! :-* All I gotta say is that this episode certainly opens a whole bunch of doors for the story to go, which IMO is a really good thing. If we do indeed get two more seasons (pretty please PTB) the writers will need some material to build on.

When I saw the Men of Letters with their capes, all I could think about was Edna Mode from "The Incredibles" when Bob asks her for a new outfit with a cape, she says to him in no uncertain terms: "No capes!". :lol: Can you just imagine Sam & Dean with capes? Oh the pictures in my head. :oops: As for the boys using magic, don't they kind of already do? Summaning spells and such? So I'm not worried about that aspect. And I don't think they will destroy that box, it's way too valuable. See, so many possibilities! I can't wait for the rest of the season(s). ;-)

On a side note, if anyone wants to read the best book on time travel, check out Jack Finney's "Time and Again", you will not be sorry.
njspnfan
# njspnfan 2013-02-01 09:32
Always a little apprehensive with the time travel episodes - if they're not done properly, it can be a lazy/contrived way by the writers of moving the story arc forward. After initially have a less than positive reaction, watched the episode again last night and loved it this time. As others have mentioned, it had an earlier S2/S3 vibe to it.

Had a question about something for the more learned fans out there (I'm a recent convert - got hooked during the TNT Supernatural Halloween marathon); during the hostage swap, when Sam apologizes to Henry and Henry replies "Save It", initially I just thought it was Henry's reaction to Sam's apology. After watching it a second time, and listening to to Henry's tone/inflection , could Henry saying "Save It" have been referring to saving the Supernatural "Mother Lode"? Maybe I'm reading something in to it that wasn't there but just a thought..
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2013-02-01 14:29
Quote:
Had a question about something for the more learned fans out there (I'm a recent convert - got hooked during the TNT Supernatural Halloween marathon); during the hostage swap, when Sam apologizes to Henry and Henry replies "Save It", initially I just thought it was Henry's reaction to Sam's apology. After watching it a second time, and listening to to Henry's tone/inflection, could Henry saying "Save It" have been referring to saving the Supernatural "Mother Lode"? Maybe I'm reading something in to it that wasn't there but just a thought..
You know, that's an interesting observation. Maybe a bit of both, and maybe even a third meaning. Henry and Dean had a plan to shoot Abaddon so he's telling Sam to "save it" that way also. But I like where you're going with that thought. Welcome to the greatest fandom around! 8)
E
# E 2013-02-02 09:39
Hi njspnfan, That IS an interesting interpretation that I hadn't thought of. I'll have to watch the episode again and see if it leans that way. Supernatural has always excelled at dropping these seemingly simple little one liners that turn out to have incredible untold meaning later on. Remember in season 1's Home when ghost Mary approaches Sam and says "I'm sorry." and Sam replied "For what?" It would take another whole season and more for us to finally find out that Mary's simple "I'm sorry," was actually a huge bombshell statement with incredible and far reaching affects on the mythology. So, it's possible Henry's "save it" could be similar...could be indeed!
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2013-02-01 23:00
This episode was Superb!
Amy
# Amy 2013-02-02 09:04
Initially I loved the episode but upoin rewatch something discoleord my love for the episode.

Dean saying he would do whatever or everything he could to save Sam. That the writers did at the beginning of the season having Sam not even look for Dean just ruined my love for the episode (and the season)

I can't get passed the imbalence or the insanely OOC charecotr path Carver put Sam on...and while I love love the MOL (really thought something like it should have been introduec in S4....with Bobby beign an operative who knew Sam adn Deans legacy) it now feels like its Carvers way to finally get Sam out of the picture so Dean, Cas and Benny .. his 3 musketeers can have their grand adventures.
percysowner
# percysowner 2013-02-02 09:55
That is a real concern for me, that they are setting it up so Sam literally becomes Bobby, hidden in the Batcave, researching and not interacting with Dean for most of the episodes only when relaying information and maybe at the end when Dean comes home. And Dean will hunt with his BFF Castiel and his better brother Benny, especially since Benny has been shown to be cuddly and good and able to stay on the straight and narrow if Dean is giving him support. It makes sense to resolve Benny the huggible vampire storyline by having him work with Dean so he stays on the wagon.
debbab
# debbab 2013-02-02 10:59
I wonder if the actors have asked for more time off so it results in less scenes for them and the writers write so they are not working as long? I don't think the writers would sideline Sam, but there might be a real reason one brother has a stand alone with brief snipets of the other. Can't see Sam as a Bobby at this age- he is going to be motivated by revenge(he has lost a lot) or by saving Dean or the world and he is not one to sit at home and just read. He has purpose. Feeling they have to wrap up the Benny story a bit before the end of the season.
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-02-02 12:12
you know debbab I have been thinking exactly the same thing. Sam is such an integral part of the show that to suggest TPTB are sidelining him just doesn't make any sense. To me it is far more likely that JP has asked to have a few 'light' episodes to spend more time with family. The 2 men have been doing this for 8 years and I feel this may very well be a smart move to allow them a little breather every now and again, especially as they have children now.
Amy
# Amy 2013-02-02 12:23
Quote:
you know debbab I have been thinking exactly the same thing. Sam is such an integral part of the show that to suggest TPTB are sidelining him just doesn't make any sense. To me it is far more likely that JP has asked to have a few 'light' episodes to spend more time with family. The 2 men have been doing this for 8 years and I feel this may very well be a smart move to allow them a little breather every now and again, especially as they have children now.
I geuss the only way to find the answer to this is what Jensens work load will be like once Danneel gives birth. If they dont cut back on his workload then we have our answer: They PTB dont see Sam as integral to Supernatural and ARE sidelining him and Jared.
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-02 13:02
I don't want to see that either! No matter how one stands on Benny and Cas, that scenario wouldn't be acceptable to anyone, I believe. This show is about Sam and Dean, period.
I wouldn't mind having them working with Benny, I think he would be an asset. I think you are worrying about something that will never happen, most (not all) of us would not be interested if Sam and Dean were split up doing different duties. The essence of the show would be lost. JMO.
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-02 13:09
I meant that to be up a little closer to Percysowner's and Amy's comments about splitting them up.
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-02 13:14
I really hope and am optimistic that you are right Leah. And it is great to see you back posting :D
But honestly it would be nice if just one of the writers would come out and say that they like to write for Sam the way several of them have now come out in favor of Dean (and Cas). I really miss Sara's input (trenchcoat storylines and all)
My jury is still out on Benny. :-)
Leah
# Leah 2013-02-02 13:50
Thanks eilf and I agree. It would ease minds but they would also have to follow through and give Sam some focus. Some people to interact with, not just be an observer.
eilf
# eilf 2013-02-02 16:33
That would be fun :D
kaz1
# kaz1 2013-02-02 12:39
Amy I am really interested in why you suggest this. Perhaps you can post the answer in the bitterness thread; I will go over and answer you there. I personally just don't see how or why they could/would possibly want to do this, so I would appreciate valid tangible examples as I don't see them for myself. I agree to a degree that Sam has had less to say this season, however this last episode I feel was back to normal. This reply is intended with great respect to your opinion :-)