Anyone else have their mind blown by this episode? So many of my questions were answered and now I have a long list of new ones!
We’ve all known for a while now that hunting is in Sam and Dean’s blood. According to grandpa Samuel they had ancestors hunting vampires on the Mayflower. That’s a long line of hunters on the Campbell side but it was always interesting to me how Winchester became the powerful name in hunting. I’m not confused about how the Winchester’s started hunting, we’ve all seen the pilot. I’m interested in how the Winchester name became powerful while the Campbell name sort of fell by the wayside. We can blame it on continuity, or say that this storyline wasn’t part of Eric Kripke’s original plan but I’d rather play around with this idea a bit. What do you say?
We learned way back in season 5 that Heaven ordered Cupid to bring John and Mary together. Sam and Dean needed to be born. But I’ve always wondered why it had to be John. It could have been any man, really. I do understand that Sam and Dean wouldn’t be Sam and Dean if they had a different father but hunting was in Mary’s blood, not Johns. But it seems the people upstairs knew what they were doing. John turned out to be one of the greatest names in hunting and trained his sons to carry on his legacy. And as it turns out, John had a destiny of his own too. He may not have lived up to it in the way his father expected, but fighting evil was in his blood and he found his own way to do it.
Men of Letters, it’s an interesting concept even if it’s still a little foggy at this point. I have to admit the capes had me skeptical at first. What can I say, capes make me skeptical. But then they introduced the magic and I was all in. I want to know more about this group of elite knowledge holders that can tap into the power of their own soul. And I want to know what’s in their magical box. I’m sure Sam and Dean took it straight to the coordinates given to them and destroyed it forever, but what if they didn’t? Could this box be the makings of a season arc? It would be a great chance to take Sam and Dean in a new direction as we find out more about the Men of Letters. Maybe they would learn a little magic? I’m not sure how I’d feel about that because I do like that they are just men, not superheroes. (Even if one of them had some short-lived powers at one point or another...) I just worry that magic would give them an advantage thereby making them less badass. I guess they already do spells, and that’s sort of like magic. What do you guys think. Would you like the show to go in the direction of the Men of Letters? Do you think Sam and Dean will start doing magic? Do you think I’m jumping to conclusions?
I felt so bad for Henry when he realized he wasn’t going to make it back from the future. To know that John suffered thinking that his father abandoned him must have been devastating. And after reading his journal and realizing the kind of life John had, he must have felt as though he failed his son. He could have taught him things that would have made his life much less miserable. But instead John learned the hard way, like a hunter.
At first Henry was not pleased to find a family of hunters. He had a few choice words on the matter too.
Dean: “What do you have against us?â€
Henry: “Aside from the unthinking, unwashed, shoot first and don’t bother to ask questions later part, not much really.â€
Awkward. But he did eventually come around which I was grateful for.
Henry: “I should have known better. You’re also Winchesters. As long as we’re alive, there’s always hope.â€
Did anyone else get chills from this line? I think I smell a t-shirt. I was sad that Henry had to die, but it was obvious from the beginning that he never made it back to John. And if you’re going to go out, might as well do it protecting your family. That is the Winchester way afterall.
Needless to say, I was very happy with this episode. I was worried at first because we’ve done the time travel thing before; a couple of times. And I loved those episodes so much that I worried we’d be risking it with a third attempt. But I was wrong. This episode proved that one concept can be reimagined in countless different ways without ever feeling stale. It certainly held my interest and offered new insight into Sam and Dean’s past and the ever-present idea of destiny.
So what did you guys think of the episode? Were you as pleased as I was? Was it what you expected? Sound off below!
Sam: “Tell you what, when one of us falls out of your closet you can ask the questions.â€
I loved when Henry shook the handcuffs off of himself and put them on Sam and Dean. You gotta love some good old fashion magic!
Henry: “Guess the Mayans were wrong.â€
Henry: “My alpha-male monkey friend.†Poor Dean...
Henry: “Demons can’t be killed by run-of-the-mill cutlery.â€
Dean: “I’m a little rusty on my boybands, men of what?â€
Henry: “Operator, I need delta 457.â€
Dean: “Who are you not calling?â€
This line literally made me laugh out loud. Great delivery by Jensen.
Dean checking out the goth chick? I didn’t know he was into that look.
I loved the incorporation of “As Time Goes By†from Casablanca. It was so sweet that John used to whistle the song from his music box and I loved that Sam and Dean recognized the tune as well.
The concept of the knights of Hell is a very interesting one. I wonder if Abadon was in fact the last one.
John used the journal that Henry ordered for himself. This warmed my heart.
Dean: “Your responsibility was to your family, not some glorified book club.â€
Dean: “When my dad died, I couldn’t save him no matter how bad I wanted to. I don’t want that to happen to sammy ever. If there’s a chance that i can save him, I’m gonna do it. He’s my brother, he’s the only family I got.â€
A devil’s trap carved into a bullet. Why didn’t I think of that?
Dean: “For a bookworm, that wasn’t bad Henry.â€
Next week’s episode...all I got from that preview is that it involves a giant and some Nazis. Oh well, I like to be surprised!
Comments
It's hard to read negative reviews of episodes you love. I've been there too, but just remember that we are offering our personal opinions. People disagree with me every week and that's okay. That's part of what makes this site so fun.
Other than that, it'll be quite positive. Should be up in a few hours.
Glad to hear that, it makes me sad when our Fearless Leader has a negative review of an episode I love! :) As always looking forward to your thoughts.
I mentioned this before but I really like the way he linked the boys back to the mytharc. And like you, I liked that it really seemed to fill in some blanks that I had always wondered about.
I don't mind the thought of them using spells and things. I liked that they were always just men too, but this opens up new avenues WITHOUT giving them super powers.
I loved that "who are you not calling" line too. The look on his face was so great.
I do wish we had more time with Henry or at least that there was time in this episode for "downtime" interactions between him and the guys.
sofia: In response to your statement, may I please ask a question that has been rolling around inside my noggin' all of Season 8? Has anyone else wondered how it is that these very same writers that during Season 7 were coming up so short in providing quality episodes are now in Season 8 doing such a good job? Seriously, in Season 7 I used to cringe when I would see an episode had been written by Adam Glass or Dabb & Loflin - but this season I have been very pleasantly surprised at all of their efforts.
So my question is: what changed? Is Jeremy Carver more demanding of his writers or just more critical of what they are turning in? Or is there another explanation for this?
I would love to know why the writing has improved this season.
Dabb & Loflin started writing episodes in Season 4 - the same time Carver did. So I don't think that could be the problem. I enjoyed many of their episodes right through Season 6's "Frontierland". But Season 7 they suddenly went flat, IMO.
Jeremy Carver is a continuity hound. He also knows how to drive a vision. The fact that Adam Glass has been on the team for three years helps too. I still think he has trouble writing Sam and Dean as characters, but he is at least this season staying with the vision Carver has set, so that's good. I still think Adam Glass' strongest script is "Mommy Dearest," but this was one of his better stories.
Nate: Thanks for your input. I kind of thought this to be the case primarily because it isn't just the writing that has improved. The editing and pacing is markedly better than Season 7, too. It makes sense that the showrunner, the "overseer" who puts all the pieces together for a final stamp of approval, would have his fingers in each of these pots.
And I agree. "Shaking things up is REALLY working."
At Comic Con Edlund said under Carver he had brought in his first first on time ever.
Gamble i dont think is a leader/ FAntastic writer, yes. But she didn't know how to lead...or demand accountability from the other writers.
When there isn't a strong leader who knows how to get their people to do their best...or hold them accountable for their scripts, work ethics then ...well...there is late scripts, poor writing....etc..
My opinion anyway...
I missed Dean checking out the Goth girl so now I'm gonna have to go and watch it again to see that. Shucky darn!!
I've seen some negative thoughts on this ep but I think they did a great job of cramming a lot of information in 42-43 minutes. We finally got some Winchester history to clear up a little of that mystery and Dean stating the fact of "saving Sammy" is still his most important task in hand.
Jensen did it again in delivering some of most heartfelt scenes both in referring to his dad and to Sammy. I also loved the final scene with Henry and him dying in Sam's arms. Jared just gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling in these kinds of situations. He's always so sympathetic and caring. These two are still the two greatest actors in any tv show out there in my book.
Speaking of books, I read the novel War of the Sons (a book based on the Supernatural series) and found it ironic (or is it?) that the character in that book was Abbadon (Don) and the boys were taught the skill of carving a devil's trap in the head of a bullet.
Quote: I'm with you on this one Sofia but this is what keeps us tuned in from week to week so guess the writers are definitely doing their job.
How funny about War of the Sons! I haven't read it but that's quite a coincidence.
I totally agree with your review girl!
I loved the episode. Great casting for Henry and Abaddon. I thought that actress brought just the right touch to the Abaddon role. I liked her, and I liked what they did with Henry's character.
I just hope the writers don't take all the potentiality afforded by this expanded mythology and waste it, like they have done so many times. It's exciting and fresh, and I hope it is wisely used.
Bless!
This week, like you Sofia, there were moments where I was a bit skeptical. There was also an overload of information crammed into one episode and I needed time to think about (and reflect on) what I had just witnessed. I even watched it again after only an hour or so... and came away from that second viewing really blown away by all the possibilities. It makes so make sense when we think back to Cupid's comment about the important of the John & Mary union. Now I'm really excited about what is to come.
Regarding the magic box, I don't think they've destroyed it. I think this has the key to the place where they'll end up staying & I think they will definitely find out more about the 'Men of Letters'. I can really see Sam in his element trying to work his way through the wealth of knowledge that was left behind... and I think (hope) that this will give him back some of the drive he needs, now that he's chosen to stay in hunting. That is such a wonderful thought... I need to see Sammy smiling more often
Anyhow, I really loved it and can't wait for Ben Edlund's episode next week.
Serge did a wonderful job as director!
I also thought Adam finally took some time out if his busy schedule and actually watched a few early episodes of the series.
I always enjoy a good story line and this episode brought it. The introduction of Henry and the backstory of John was great to finally hear.
Jensen knocks it out of the park on every emotional scene. His comedic timing is priceless. The death scene of Henry was very touching and I love a teary eyed Sammy. The fact that Dean called Sam, Sammy in most of the episode was very touching.
I hope we do not go down the path of "magic" powers for our boys. The ability to conjure up a demon and create a hex bag is one thing but I do not want to watch Harry Potter on Wed nights.
I think this season may be on of the best seasons we have had in a few years. IMHO season 6 was less than stellar. It picked up around Caged Heat and continued to improve, but the first half of the season was not up to par.
Season 7 was OK but it was not consistently what i consider to be good or great TV.
So far season 8 has exceeded my expectations (excluding Bitten) on a continual basis. Some of the episodes will now be placed in my SPN hall of fame shows ( DVR locked). I think the writers are doing a great job this season by keeping the story line a bit more stream lined.
Great writing, great direction and of course the best dam actors on TV make for the best 42 min of TV out there.
Where do you think he went? What does he often do when he is upset? Fix the car! So I think that is likely when the window got fixed... just my humble opinion
I'd like to see them shopping at Good Will or Sally Ann for clothes. How hard would it be to find something to fit Sam?
Sneaking med supplies from a clinic perhaps? The mundane things they do every day would be very interesting to me.
Ah well!
Did enjoy the episode, for grandpa and for the fact the boys were united and on the same page and loved Dean's expression of still caring for his Sammy. Now we need to hear how Sam values his big brother and I can breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy whatever comes next. Although I do not want them to be two Harry Potters with magic wands waving! The fact they are extraordinary human beings is what makes them so awesome. They have no need to BE warlocks, wizards or angels.
it seems that Jeremy Carver is doing something right.
Dean would've gotten the window fixed ASAP and we don't need to see it to know that it happened. Do you remember in the episode 'The monster at the end of this book' when Sam was talking about the back window being smashed. At the time he voiced his disbelief that Dean would drive it like that.
So if Sam can't believe it, neither can I... and given Dean's attachment to 'baby', I don't think he would've driven four hours without getting it fixed first. Sometimes we have to fill in the gaps because they simply can't show everything.
Just wanted to say, I agree with you on the magic thing. I've always loved that Sam and Dean are just men. Hopefully if magic is part and parcel of this Men of Letters thing, maybe it takes a while to perfect. I'm not so sure I want Sam and Dean to be superheroes. I'm okay with just 'heroes'.
I was also so impressed with this ep (finally got to watch, my daughter and her smarts
Ps Please oh PLEASE oh PRETTY please do NOT let Amelia be pregnant. We need to start a petition, because if you look at it, it is a very smart way to continue the storyline. Only thing is Amelia is not SPN material. Sorry Amelia, loved you as the door shut on you.
Dean needs Sam to back him up on fights (this was also made clear in Torn and Frayed) and Sam needs Dean to exchange ideas - in short, they need each other in both fields. After all, they both have Mary and John's blood.
They got their strengths but they are a team above all - a FIGHTING TEAM AND A THINKING TEAM.
I think people are jumping into conclusion that the writers intend to separate the brothers into doing fixed tasks. I don't believe that is their intent. I FIRMLY HOPE it's not. Why? Because I don't like it, so I don't want to!
Dean isn't stupid and doesn't need Sam's smarts to make him a good hunter. He did just fine while Sam was at school even though he missed him terribly. And Sam can fight with the best of them and think on his feet while doing it. I can't believe the PTB would ever consider such a division. I don't like it either and am sure that is not the intended way they will go.
Neither do I.
And, please, everybody stop this pregnant Amelia conversation! Pretty please!
Sam was willing to stand up to his father to get what he wanted and needed that is not being a child in a man's body. Sam took responsibility for releasing Lucifer and made the ultimate sacrifice to do so. Again NOT a child in a man's body. Dean didn't have to force him to make up for what Sam did, like a parent. Sam made his amends all on his own. Sam has supported himself and found work and a way to live after Dean disappeared and Sam thought he was dead on his own, something Dean didn't manage either time Sam died.
If you had said Sam hasn't spent much time with children, I would agree but that wasn't what you said. IMHO calling ANYONE a child in man's body is an utter insult and is slamming Sam. I know you didn't mean it that way, but to me it is a huge slam on a man who in no way, IMHO is childlike or dependent.
Sofia, I agree with you 100% - this episode had a lot of layers, and we should delve more on what they were showing us about the Winchester family tree than in the small things that didn't fit the previous seasons... I'll never forget when Eric himself told of how many time he forgot simple details of the story.. his words - "My bad, I made a mistake" - that's it, if the Master Kripke himself said that, we can overlook some things...
Everybody have a great weekend.
Cla;}
When I saw the Men of Letters with their capes, all I could think about was Edna Mode from "The Incredibles" when Bob asks her for a new outfit with a cape, she says to him in no uncertain terms: "No capes!".
On a side note, if anyone wants to read the best book on time travel, check out Jack Finney's "Time and Again", you will not be sorry.
Had a question about something for the more learned fans out there (I'm a recent convert - got hooked during the TNT Supernatural Halloween marathon); during the hostage swap, when Sam apologizes to Henry and Henry replies "Save It", initially I just thought it was Henry's reaction to Sam's apology. After watching it a second time, and listening to to Henry's tone/inflection , could Henry saying "Save It" have been referring to saving the Supernatural "Mother Lode"? Maybe I'm reading something in to it that wasn't there but just a thought..
Dean saying he would do whatever or everything he could to save Sam. That the writers did at the beginning of the season having Sam not even look for Dean just ruined my love for the episode (and the season)
I can't get passed the imbalence or the insanely OOC charecotr path Carver put Sam on...and while I love love the MOL (really thought something like it should have been introduec in S4....with Bobby beign an operative who knew Sam adn Deans legacy) it now feels like its Carvers way to finally get Sam out of the picture so Dean, Cas and Benny .. his 3 musketeers can have their grand adventures.
I wouldn't mind having them working with Benny, I think he would be an asset. I think you are worrying about something that will never happen, most (not all) of us would not be interested if Sam and Dean were split up doing different duties. The essence of the show would be lost. JMO.
But honestly it would be nice if just one of the writers would come out and say that they like to write for Sam the way several of them have now come out in favor of Dean (and Cas). I really miss Sara's input (trenchcoat storylines and all)
My jury is still out on Benny.