WARNING!  If you haven't seen "What's Up, Tiger Mommy?" read no further!  There will be spoilers and heavy episodal discussion and other things you will want to see for yourself first, so don't read this until you've watched!  Then come and speculate with us!


First and foremost, I want to start by saying I think this season has been really well-paced so far.  I know it's only two episodes in, but man, things are moving along!  I am really digging it.  In fact, I'm really digging the whole start to this season, so I hope they can keep it going!  Let's dive right in, shall we?

Sam
What is going on with him?  I am really interested to find out what really happened in the year Dean was in Purgatory because there's something else besides finding a girl and a dog and settling down.  When Dean went all unapproved methods of interrogation on that criminal, Sam was really halfassed in his attempts to make Dean stop.  And the reverse exorcism.  That was really, really clever, but he seriously just thought of that NOW?  Maybe someone taught him that trick in the past year.  Something is definitely up with him, I just can't put my finger on what it is yet.  I think Sam's story this season is going to be like an onion, and we're gonna slowly peel back layers until we get the whole picture.

Dean
If Dean was feral last episode, he's practically rabid in this one.  He's terrifying!  He's having an extremely difficult time adjusting to being in "normal" society again, and I think the fact that he feels like he has literally no one to talk to right now is just compounding the issue.  Cass is gone, Bobby's dead, he's still mad at Sam for not looking for him, no matter what he says, he's trying to keep Benny a secret.  And it's clear that Sam has his own issues to deal with right now, so I'm not sure how much of a help he would be anyway.  He's so apathetic right now.  It reminds me of when Sam was Soulless, or when everything was black and white for him.  It's a monster, kill it.  It's our enemy, kill it.  It would be better for the greater good, kill it.  It makes Dean very uncomfortable to watch, doesn't it?  Really looking forward to seeing where this is going with him, though.

Castiel
Dean found him, hooray!  Their reunion was so great, too.  Dean was so happy to see Cass.  And of course Cass would bug out if he thought it would keep Dean safe.  Keeping Dean safe is pretty much his mission, at this point.  But what was up with the end of the episode?  Do you think when Dean said last episode that Cass just let go, he meant literally?

Mrs. Tran, Advanced Badass
Man, I hope Mrs. Tran is all right because she was excellent!  Tattoo?  No problem.  Cranky pawn shop guy?  She'll handle it.  Bitch-slapping a demon?  On it!  She was super great, and I really hope that when we next see Kevin, he's with his mom, and she's okay.

Okay, time to bullet point the rest of this because I need to get to bed!  Damn you, Wednesday nights that bleed into Thursday morning!  It was so much easier when episodes were on Friday so I could sleep in Saturday morning!
 

  • Aside from a particularly glaring incident that I'll talk about later, Sam and Dean were super competent this episode, and have been so far this season.  Reverse exorcism?  Awesome!  Dean bumping into that guy and stealing the key out of his jacket pocket?  Clever!  They took on two demons around Kevin's house after some awesome recon by Dean, too.  It's so nice to see them getting to show off how badass they can be instead of just getting kicked around all the time.
  • That being said, Kevin Tran, advanced placement, can trick CROWLEY and get away.  Why would you leave him alone????  Even if you don't want to be in the same room, at least listen by the door to make sure he's still there.  SERIOUSLY, boys.
  • Speaking of Crowley, he red-eyed tonight!  And his smoke was red-hued, too.  That's a new one.  And he owns the moon.  Of course he owns the moon.
  • Dean was so proud of his little line about Pluto not being a planet anymore.  Bless.
  • The actor who played Samandriel (sp? Super-Wiki doesn't have the info yet) was the kid from "Bugs!"
  • "Listen to moose, squirrel."  Bwah!
  • My TV cut out when Dean was talking to the Impala after Sam threatened to trade her for the tablet.  What did he say?
  • With Dean's hug tonight, that makes three hugs for him in two episodes.  It's a new personal record!  Also a new record for Cass, with one hug.
  • "This isn't the men's room."  Awkward pause.
  • I literally just got that the Thor's hammer bidder got the 3/8 virgin or whatever he offered from the woman at the bank in the opening.  *facepalm*
What did you guys think about tonight's episode?  What do you think is happening with Sam?  Because something is up, right?  And how long before Dean hurts someone that doesn't deserve to be hurt?

Comments  

Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-10-11 00:57
Yeah, did you catch the Rocky and Bulwinkle reference?! Crowley's called Sam "Moose" many a time, but this is the first he's called Dean "Squirrel"! LOL

I also guffawed at the "Pluto...is that even still a planet?" joke, which I am probably misquoting a bit, but it IS late. :)
Daisymae
# Daisymae 2012-10-11 11:21
I've been waiting for a reference to Moose, Squirrel for a couple years now, and shouted "yay" when Crowley said it. :D
NOLANOLA
# NOLANOLA 2012-10-11 01:03
HELLO GOOD PEOPLE,

DEAN TOLD BABY THAT THEY DID NOT REALLY MEAN IT. (TRADING HER OFF)

DEAN IS A RETURNING VETERAN WHO CANT ADJUST. YES HE IS FERAL & SCARY, BUT TRUE BADD ASS DEAN.

THE RED SMOKE IS KILLING ME. I KNOW THEY READ SOME REVIEWS. (TPTB) SO SINCE WE HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT CROWLEY WITHOUT BLACK OR RED EYES, THEY THREW US A BONE. BUT A HA IT WAS TIGERMOM AND NOT-NOT CROWLEY. NICE ONE FELLAS BUT I GOTCHA !!!!

I AM CONVINCED THAT CROWLEY IS GOD. REMEMBER BALANCE~~YIN/YA NG. dont cuss me out.

MISS THIS FANDOM, WILL TRY TO KEEP IN TOUCH.

BLESSINGS
Tamukid
# Tamukid 2012-10-11 08:22
Sorry but chuck from season 5 was God lol
kaj
# kaj 2012-10-11 10:05
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DEAN TOLD BABY THAT THEY DID NOT REALLY MEAN IT. (TRADING HER OFF)
HI NOLANOLA, Good to see you again! :-D

Yep, He did tell her that. Gotta love Dean and his Baby.

Good thought NOLA. We never saw Crowley (who is played by Mark S) showing black, red, white or even yellow eyes. But tonight when he possessed someone, his eyes turned red. Is it really Crowley in her?
winmomwannabe
# winmomwannabe 2012-10-11 01:32
It went too fast. The pace is great. Yep, totally agree. I think there is a bombshell of a plan for Sam down the line. Something is just off. It's an odd mixture of asking questions with a very keen interest(last week, where is tablet, what happened to CASS), being so calm, backwards exorcism, not being opposed to killing all the humans being possessed, logical yet sometimes taking a back seat to it all. I am very intrigued to say the least.

Didn't see it coming, Crowley in Tiger mom!

Loved Rocky and Bullwinkle nod too.

Just so much to love and now I have to wait another week for more answers.
PENNY JAIME
# PENNY JAIME 2012-10-11 01:33
WOW!!! That's really all can say. I didn't think it was possible for this show to get any better, but they're killing it!

I'm LOVING Dean right now. He will calm down later I'm sure. It makes perfect sense that he would be this way after a year in total combat.
As far as Sam goes, I don't think he knows how to react to Dean right now. Hell, I wouldn't. Not really much he could do to stop him anyway.
That red smoke was great. Special effects guys did a great job.
Jensen was amazing in that Purgatory scene with Misha.
Was it just me or did it seem like a very short hour??
Next week-Jensen's episode. Man, I can hardly wait
hartbroknagn
# hartbroknagn 2012-10-11 16:52
I think that if the hour seems short, it means the episode was REALLY GOOD. Which it was.
KELLY
# KELLY 2012-10-11 01:35
I know this is probably only me, but maybe my favorite thing about this episode is that they addressed the meatsuits. We knew the name of every possessed person, I think. (even the angel's vessel had a name). And even more, Kevin rightfully freaked out about Dean almost stabbing his mom. While I can see where Dean's head is at, Crowley being the king of Hell and all, F@#K that was cold-blooded. Remembering back to S1 when Dean was begging Sam not to kill YED in their Dad's body, it just hits me how dark he's gone.

Even though it's disturbing, I like that the meatsuits aren't just nameless canon fodder. I think it makes the story better and the changes in Dean's character more interesting.Wha t's weird is that we were just talking about that this last week. But that could just be why it struck me.

Yeah, something is up with Sam. Remember how the Campbells' made such a big deal about Dean being out of hunting for a year and how it must have made him rusty. This Sam is not only not rusty he is pulling out cool new moves, he is totally on top of his game. Now I have to admit I never really saw Dean as rusty either, but he wasn't pulling stuff out of ass on a moments notice either. If something isn't up with him taking a year off I will be surprised.

I like that Castiel is back in fighting form, the hug was cute too (although Cas did hug them both in Reading is Fundamental-so it technically wasn't a first).

Mrs Tran was great! And I hope she's alright. Though I did like that as strong as she was she wasn't fully recovered at the end, it seems more realistic. Although it does make me wonder if something is up with her.

Loved the moose squirrel. Loved the tattoo scene. And Sam better have kept that hammer. So many good things and it was done really well too. Season off to a great start.
rubbykri
# rubbykri 2012-10-11 02:12
I'LL SAY IT... SPN IS BACK! humor, the boys.. the awesome lines.. it was fun .. the things are getting really interesting.. I have to say I love this Dean.. yeah I know he's not that well but at least he's noy depressed (Like before) anymore... he's even making fun of the other guy.. pluto x) I'm very very happy with the epi.. it remind me season 3 epies.. you know. everything! can't wait seven days to see the other epi!
Grace232
# Grace232 2012-10-11 02:36
Thanks so much for doing this My two cents added - Fabulous! I am so happy with this show right now! I agree that Dean is fabulous - as written and acted! And Sam too - but I agree, the mysteries there are piling up. He took a year off but learned new tricks like the reverse exorcism - sure he did. And I agree, he did not seem at all disturbed when Dean went the torture route on the criminal. I am so hoping that it will be revealed that it is from his experiences the last year and not that something is wrong with him again. Psychic, demon blood addiction, no soul, broken psyche -- enough is enough, let him be normal - or at least normal for a hunter. Those 2 guys are both knocking it out of the park!

I am with everyone else - loved the Squirrel comment! Classic! Really the whole episode was so well done - just not long enough for me! Cannot wait until next week - again!
Ginger
# Ginger 2012-10-11 03:56
I have to admit that I need to re-watch this episode before I make my mind up about it. There was so much that I liked about it, but as I watched it this first time, I kept thinking that Dabb & Loflin had missed the 'tone' or feel of SPN. Did anyone else think that?

I'm going to say that JA is really doing an exceptional job with this meaty role and this hunter side of Dean. I hope this pragmatic, give no quarter, kick-ass hunter sticks around forever, because the role is playing to all of JA's strengths as an actor and he is just good at what he does.

That scene when he meets up with Cas and he gave the full range of Dean's emotions in a minute was terrific -- happy to see Cas, worried that Cas was still mental, angry when he thought Cas dumped him, and 100% loyal in saying he was taking Cas out with him or they would die trying...all in a minute or so.

But, then, I thought more time could have been devoted to the Purgatory flashbacks. They seemed rushed...yeah, I know, time constraints. I really liked Dean flipping out with the guy in jail, but I thought they should have shown Sam pulling him back.

I hope we get more fill-in on how Benny came to regard Dean enough as a friend to be ticked off at Cas for winging out on Dean. Without a clue as to the time Dean and he have been together, it was quite a leap from last week to this week.

Kevin quickly became boring to me tonight. I'm glad he'll be out of the picture for a while. I think small doses of Kevin will be enough for me.

Mrs. Tran is such a very good actress, but I'm undecided right now about Tiger Mom and how often I want to see her. I think I'm glad she's gone for right now, but I also thought she did a terrific job, so reserving judgment on that character.

Alfie was absolutely adorable. My, my, how that boy from "Bugs" grew up. And wasn't the opening God, I guess he was a god, the guy who played the reaper in Faith? I think it was, and he was sufficiently creepy. Good job.

Sam?? No clue about Sam yet. but we're getting to his side of the story next week. I kind of expected that Sam would be recognizing that Dean is Rambo-ing it and would be a little bit concerned about that at this point. TBD, I guess.

So I'm withholding my opinion until I do a re-watch, because a lot was going on so quickly. I do admit to liking these first two episodes so much more than I did anything in S6 and S7 combined.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-10-11 09:48
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I have to admit that I need to re-watch this episode before I make my mind up about it. There was so much that I liked about it, but as I watched it this first time, I kept thinking that Dabb & Loflin had missed the 'tone' or feel of SPN. Did anyone else think that?
I often think Dabb & Loflin miss the feel of SPN. They are one of my least favorite writers, very hit or miss.

I hope we get to Sam's side of the year. It does look that way from previews, but I think at the conventions they said this would be Dean centric, so I don't know.

I understand Dean is in combat mode, I am concerned that Sam isn't reacting in a what I think is in character, but again since I have trouble with D&L's characterizatio n at times I'm not certain if it is a one off writing issue, or if it is a theme for the season.
digyd
# digyd 2012-10-11 11:47
Man, I can't believe how fast my log-in times out.

Anyway,

You just reminded me. "Hot wings." I loved that.

But I don't think it was meant for Sam to pull Dean back. That would be the usual and it seems to me this season so far is purposely not doing the usual, which means folk are growing and evolving and I think that's the true-to-life thing to do. Sam is acting indifferent and I think it's on purpose and if so, he wouldn't pull Dean back. Instead I would think we'd need to wonder what's going on there and stay tuned!
DeanGrimly
# DeanGrimly 2012-10-11 04:04
Show is surpassingly brilliant this year! Love every second of it --the acting has been superb. Dean is truly terrifying as an over-the-top mega-hero, and Sam does seem to have a somewhat detached, other-agenda. I think that once Sam reintegrated himself and got rid of Lucifer, his brain/psyche was changed somehow. His thinking has entered a higher plane, and he's less emo/fuzzy/angui shed. Could he be turning into some kind of genius? They need someone to handle this load!
CJ
# CJ 2012-10-11 05:30
This was an awesome episode. Loved it. Jensen was absolutely fab in his portrayal of feral Dean in purgatory and PTSD Dean topside. As Ginger pointed out he showed Dean's range of emotions in just one scene (with Cas). That was great. Loved the Cas hug... aawww. Hope he's ok.

I liked the scene with Baby (Dean comforting her was cute). Sam with the hammer was fun. His reverse exorcism was cool too. I like Kevin and his kickass mom but would prefer them in small doses. Dont want them to take the focus away from the brothers.

The direction was exceptional especially the back & forth interrogation scene. Purgatory scene seemed a bit rushed but hey I guess am just greedy. The last scene of Dean feeling that people die cos he doesnt need them and then cutting to Cas letting go was a bit scary and ominous. Can't wait for the season to unfold. The suspense is killing me.
SPN Fan
# SPN Fan 2012-10-11 05:50
Wow I loved this episode. Dean was great. Yeah he's changed but its only expected. I thought Jensen portrayed the feral Dean really, really well. That was superb acting. Am sure the emo Dean will be back, though I wish he would retain some of his badass ways. Didnt like what Sera did to his character last season. This side of Dean plays to Jensen's strengths. And I think he loves the challenge. Is it just me or does he seem more invigorated at Cons and other interviews as well. Anyway I loved the scene with Baby. How could Sam even think of doing that :) And Dean's hug with Cas was heart warming. I really hope nothing happened to Cas. Sam with the hammer was fun. Crowley was menacing. He's the best big bad since YED. Did u notice his eyes turned red. And the red smoke was really cool. So will he now be RED (red eyed demon). Overall I think JCs gonna rock this season. Soooo many questions. So much suspense and intrigue. Can't wait for the rest of the season.
doboodoby
# doboodoby 2012-10-11 07:37
sorry but it was horrible episode. What in the hell are the writers doing to this show? Sam and Dean’s relationship is basically non existent.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-11 08:12
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sorry but it was horrible episode. What in the hell are the writers doing to this show? Sam and Dean’s relationship is basically non existent.
I agree. I don't even recognise the show at the moment. Sam and Dean barely spoke to each other or made eye contact last night. Both are, to difft degrees, acting ooc. It's just not fun to watch. Plus I cannot summon any interest in what went on in Purgatory.

Still waiting for the show I love to come back from hiatus.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2012-10-11 08:25
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sorry but it was horrible episode. What in the hell are the writers doing to this show? Sam and Dean’s relationship is basically non existent.
I agree. I don't even recognise the show at the moment. Sam and Dean barely spoke to each other or made eye contact last night. Both are, to difft degrees, acting ooc. It's just not fun to watch. Plus I cannot summon any interest in what went on in Purgatory.

Still waiting for the show I love to come back from hiatus.
I agree, too. Found the episode underwhelming.
Samantha
# Samantha 2012-10-11 08:41
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sorry but it was horrible episode. What in the hell are the writers doing to this show? Sam and Dean’s relationship is basically non existent.
I agree. I don't even recognise the show at the moment. Sam and Dean barely spoke to each other or made eye contact last night. Both are, to difft degrees, acting ooc. It's just not fun to watch. Plus I cannot summon any interest in what went on in Purgatory.

Still waiting for the show I love to come back from hiatus.
I agree, too. Found the episode underwhelming.
You said aloud what I was thinking in my head. :-) I agree the twists and turns must be brilliant, but somewhere along the way they've lost the heart and soul of the show :sad:
ciar
# ciar 2012-10-11 11:52
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sorry but it was horrible episode. What in the hell are the writers doing to this show? Sam and Dean’s relationship is basically non existent.
I agree. I don't even recognise the show at the moment. Sam and Dean barely spoke to each other or made eye contact last night. Both are, to difft degrees, acting ooc. It's just not fun to watch. Plus I cannot summon any interest in what went on in Purgatory.

Still waiting for the show I love to come back from hiatus.
I agree, too. Found the episode underwhelming.
You said aloud what I was thinking in my head. :-) I agree the twists and turns must be brilliant, but somewhere along the way they've lost the heart and soul of the show :sad:
Me too. I was bored during this episode, I kept waiting for it to actually start (if you know what I mean) it all felt like filler.

I'm really hoping that the writers begin working on fixing Sam and Dean's behaviour to/with each other. The brothers haven't been properly close with each other for ages now - I miss the Sam and Dean who cared about each other; this Sam and Dean are like colleagues rather than brothers. It seems that for the last couple of seasons Dean has spent most of his time pissed off (and angry) with Sam and Sam seems to have spent most of his time keeping secrets from Dean. They're both distant with each other and very rarely seem to exhibit their brotherly connection from the early years. These character behaviours do not make interesting plot elements: the brothers talking to each other and working out their problems together, being an effective hunting team, and protecting each other from the rest of the world makes interesting plots.

I felt a bit hopeful after last week's episode, in that I quite enjoyed it and thought that things were off to a good (if strange, because of Sam not searching for Dean) start. This week's episode did nothing for me at all (apart from the Purgatory flashbacks, none of it interested me).
Birdy
# Birdy 2012-10-12 06:33
Why don't you just stop watching it then?

(Admin warning) - We're not like that here. I get it, you want to read something positive about the show because you love it, but we respect all opinions here. This is a disrespectful comment. Next time, I'll have to edit.

A suggestion, if you want to defend SPN, give your reasons why you loved the episode. That I'd love to read.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-12 06:42
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Why don't you just stop watching it then?
Because I love this show. Because I have watched since ep1 and am not giving up hope now.

Not sure why you would ask this question. Are you saying only people who believe the show is perfect should watch / comment about it? Are you saying that if I am not happy with an aspect of it I should shut up?

Can I politely point out that this sort of 'advice' is never well received and probably best kept to yourself?
Samantha
# Samantha 2012-10-11 08:36
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sorry but it was horrible episode. What in the hell are the writers doing to this show? Sam and Dean’s relationship is basically non existent.
I agree. I don't even recognise the show at the moment. Sam and Dean barely spoke to each other or made eye contact last night. Both are, to difft degrees, acting ooc. It's just not fun to watch. Plus I cannot summon any interest in what went on in Purgatory.

Still waiting for the show I love to come back from hiatus.
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So basically this season is about every other relationship except Sam and Dean. Thats just great. :sad:
Dean and Castiel, Dean and Benny, Kevin and Crowley, Sam and Amelia.
It would appear so. Gamble got accused of making S7 about the supporting characters. Carver seems to be doing the same in S8. Not impressed so far.



You said aloud what I was thinking in my head. :-) I'm a long time lurker and didn't know whether I was being harsh with my words, but I had to say this.

I agree the twists and turns may be brilliant, but somewhere along the way, they seem to have lost the heart and soul of the show.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-10-11 09:51
I have to admit there were a couple of moments in there where all I could think was "who are these guys" because both seemed off. Dean is explicable because of Purgatory. Sam is just off and has been for two episodes. I hope it doesn't last too long. I could take them fighting because Dean has lost faith again, in Sam. But for both to seem so not themselves bugs.
Luciano
# Luciano 2012-10-11 11:27
Have you atched the PREMIERE. Im not complaining but all it was, was d brothers relationship. This episode packed more punch. Less brotherly moments but after last episode this is exactly what we needed. Did you watch last episode????
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2012-10-11 07:50
Man, that was a good episode. It was so packed with info. Dean is scary, in a good way, but when he was going to kill Mrs. Tran, it was really cold-blooded. Sam with the reverse exorcism! There is no way he just thought of doing that. What have you been doing all year Sammy? We finally got to see Crowley's red eyes and he disappears in red smoke, absolutely brilliant. Moose, Squirrel, LOL.

After Sam thinks of bidding the car, Dean turns around and says, "He didn't mean it Baby". Ah, so sweet.

I am loooving this season so far, yes only two episodes in, but what good episodes they were.
Samantha
# Samantha 2012-10-11 08:03
So basically this season is about every other relationship except Sam and Dean. Thats just great. :sad:
Dean and Castiel, Dean and Benny, Kevin and Crowley, Sam and Amelia.
Jo1027
# Jo1027 2012-10-11 08:27
Quote:
So basically this season is about every other relationship except Sam and Dean. Thats just great. :sad:
Dean and Castiel, Dean and Benny, Kevin and Crowley, Sam and Amelia.
It would appear so. Gamble got accused of making S7 about the supporting characters. Carver seems to be doing the same in S8. Not impressed so far.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-11 08:48
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So basically this season is about every other relationship except Sam and Dean. Thats just great. :sad:
Dean and Castiel, Dean and Benny, Kevin and Crowley, Sam and Amelia.
Looks like sadly. I had expected better of JC.
Luciano
# Luciano 2012-10-11 11:29
Have you watched the PREMIERE
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-11 11:37
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Have you watched the PREMIERE
Well I've definitely watched the premiere and it was probably one of the worst episodes ever for the brothers relationship. Their reconnection was muted. We, and Dean, had to swallow the totally ooc revelation that Sam hadn't bothered to look for him, and also swallow that Dean had a new comrade in arms he is keeping secret from Sam. In what universe is any of that good for the bros relationship? Just because it was featured heavily does NOT mean it was satisfying, in character or well handled.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-11 08:45
So this is where I am coming from on this ep.

S8 has not started well for me. Firstly the ludicrous and ooc story that Sam didn't look for Dean. I will never accept that as anything other than a total red herring (which remains to be seen) or rank bad writing.

Then the Sam&Dean free zone that was this weeks ep. There is no love coming across from their relationship. It is unrecognisable from previous seasons. They don't even seem that pleased to be reunited. They barely spoke to each other, or made eye contact this week. And as for previous reunions, the miraculous nature of the resurrection is not remotely addressed and is glossed over, when actually they should be showing how much they appreciate being back in the real world (for Dean) and back together.

So we get zero from Sam and Dean's relationship. Meanwhile I am expected to care about Dean/Cas (I like Cas fine as part of TFW, but have NEVER understood/seen /got/cared about a special relationship between D and C) and Dean/Benny and Sam/Amelia? Sorry if you give me Sam and Dean as the central and strongest relationship in the show then there is room for me to care about other relationships ASWELL. But when you give us them INSTEAD of Dean and Sam's, while simultaneously undermining the strength and importance of that relationship in order to make the others look better in comparison - then sorry I'm not buying.

That pretty fundamental issue aside, there was lots to like. The cinematography from Purgatory is great. Loved Mrs Tran. Loved genius Sam. I really like Kevin and Crowley is always good fun. The performances are great. Jared is playing Sam very softly; he is sad, quiet, grave almost, and looks exhausted which you wouldn't expect after a year of (alleged) domestic bliss. Jensen is knocking it out of the park as always.

There were hints that something is going on with Sam. Where did he learn to do a reverse exorcism? He couldn't do that when Dean disappeared. If he's been out of hunting ever since that moment where did that trick come from? Also he's not coming across as at all rusty.

But overall the bad outweighed the good for me. If there is a twist coming that shows Sam in a better, more in character, light, and if the relationship is meant to be back stronger then they need to make some pretty rapid progress. Having a great destination in mind may not be enough to keep people on board if the journey takes too long and isn't fun. I nearly bailed during the interminable soulless Sam, bro-bond free zone that was early s6. I'm feeling that way again.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-10-11 09:55
I agree the relationship is off, by a lot. If season seven seemed like two guys who were just hunting partners, season 8 seems like two hunting partners who don't care if they hunt together or not. Dean was more caring about Baby than he has been about Sam. Sam should have reacted to Dean's callous behavior more than he did. I hope they get to the twists soon, because really a full season of Sam and Dean don't care about each other is not what I want to see. I think in some ways Soulless!Sam was more invested in the relationship. He wanted to hunt with Dean, even though he wasn't quite able to understand why.
ciar
# ciar 2012-10-11 12:04
I think you summed up my concerns very well. I have the same problems with the brothers' relationship and characterisatio n in recent series. I have been feeling (since S4) that Sam and Dean are more like colleagues than brothers. There's been a distance in their relationship that I just don't like.

I don't mind the programme focusing on other characters, I realise that the entire focus can't be about Sam and Dean 100% of the time (and I have really enjoyed some of the more interesting secondary characters over the years) but I do mind if they try to use that focus to diminish the bond between the Winchesters.
st50
# st50 2012-10-11 13:27
Had to watch this episode twice before I could comment.
First time, I was not impressed at all. - some great lines, some great characters, some fun stuff. But it didn't feel like SPN to me.
Second time, I enjoyed it more, but it still feels 'off'.

I really really dislike where the brothers are right now: What the H*** is up with Sam???? - He's sitting back, slouching in his chair, letting Dean make every decision, harass and attack every other character with only minor objections - or a bitchface, if we see any reaction at all. Who is this apathetic creature??
Unfortunately, I'm really getting afraid that there is nothing more to what's going on here than "Sam wants out".
Dean - not connecting with Sam, aggressive to an extreme on everything else. Buddy-buddy with Benny, and feeling somewhat guilty about Cas' fate - not liking it. Why is he hanging with Sam at this point?

Mrs Tran was fun, but could very quickly get to be too much. Hope they can park her in the safe-house now. Kevin was too badass in the premier. I liked this Kevin better - he seemed closer to S7 Kevin in this ep.

The Cas flashbacks were interesting, but I really don't recognize the Cas that would yell for Dean like that. It didn't seem quite right either. Maybe next episode will clarify what was happening there.

I really hope Carver steps it up and gets the brothers bond back to being the heart and soul of this show really soon
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-10-11 13:45
I admit the what the Heck is up with Sam storyline is my main issue. I know JC is new as the show runner and I should not hold previous seasons against him. But what is wrong with Sam THIS season has happened way to often for me. For the most part, Dean's issues are immediate and upfront and center at the beginning of each season and we are told that Sam will get looked at later on. For too many seasons Sam's later on became the second to the last episode of the year or the last episode of the year. The imbalance bothers me greatly. I don't want to wait until midseason to see why Sam is behaving the way he is and I don't want the writers to get caught by some new shiny character and then not have time to delve into Sam.

Admittedly I had reservations from the start about Amelia and last week's introduction didn't help. Plus at least one description of Sam and Amelia was 'rom-com' and I don't do romantic comedies period, let alone on Supernatural. If Sam gets a sympathetic edit, I'll be fine. If it is all Dean emo all the time and Sam gets picnics with Amelia I will be very let down.
st50
# st50 2012-10-11 13:59
Quote:
If it is all Dean emo all the time and Sam gets picnics with Amelia I will be very let down.
Exactly. I really hope this is not where they're heading, but so far, that's about all we've gotten. I need to know about BOTH brothers!
Dean's story line is interesting, and of course JA is knocking it out of the park, as usual, even if FeralDean gives me the creeps.

But - A couple of good lines and tossing Thors hammer do not make for good character development. Hopefully ep3 will give us reason to hope for more for Sam.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-10-12 04:22
Quote:
we are told that Sam will get looked at later on. For too many seasons Sam's later on became the second to the last episode of the year or the last episode of the year. The imbalance bothers me greatly. I don't want to wait until midseason to see why Sam is behaving the way he is and I don't want the writers to get caught by some new shiny character and then not have time to delve into Sam.
I too think the same ..and the effect it has is diluted or something like writer's strike happens(really unlucky).
ryder21
# ryder21 2012-10-12 00:26
Hi st50. When you refer to your frustration of Sam 'sitting back, slouching in his chair, letting Dean make every decision', the scene that sprang into my mind was at the beginning when Kevin is telling Dean why it is so important that he sees his Mum.

I have a totally different view of this scene and see Sam displaying the visceral relationship the brothers have. Dean is in full verbal slinging match mode with Kevin. When Sam offers his first softly spoken opinion and is told snappily to 'stay out of it', he responds with an affectionate and knowing smile. There is a familiarity about this that tells me that Sam knows that he does not have to be involved verbally to win this discussion, a look at the end is all that is needed. And he is right, as we see Dean throw up his hands in defeat.

I like this, it feels familiar and right.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-10-12 00:45
Quote:
I have a totally different view of this scene and see Sam displaying the visceral relationship the brothers have. Dean is in full verbal slinging match mode with Kevin. When Sam offers his first softly spoken opinion and is told snappily to 'stay out of it', he responds with an affectionate and knowing smile. There is a familiarity about this that tells me that Sam knows that he does not have to be involved verbally to win this discussion, a look at the end is all that is needed. And he is right, as we see Dean throw up his hands in defeat.

I like this, it feels familiar and right.
I agree with this 100%. Last season - and maybe since before then, really, we have missed those 'looks' between the brothers, how they could communicate without words - Sam especially. In this episode, we really saw those kind of exchanges. Dean would say something, and Sam would respond with a look or expression that perfectly communicated his view of things. That's my understanding of Sam's personality. He's the more patient brother. He acts as a balance or counterweight to an unstable Dean. I've actually sensed a lot more affection from him these first two episodes than almost the totality of S7, and it's mostly non-verbal, i.e. body language, facial expressions, and those expressive eyes. There IS a familiarity about it. These brothers know each other so well that they don't HAVE to say things outright anymore. Maybe that's what people are missing - back in S1-2 when we were still learning who these guys were and they were still learning how to hunt together. But time has changed. They're older, they KNOW each other. And they can communicate very well indirectly. It's the little things - Sam ordering his brother a burger in Ep. 1, for example. Not a word was needed - the love and concern was evident in that single non-verbal action. I agree with ryder21 - despite the obvious secrets yet to be revealed about the brothers and the tension that has caused between them (there's always been tension, though) it feels familiar. It feels right.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-10-12 04:31
Quote:
they don't HAVE to say things outright anymore.
Then let Dean also exchange looks without dialogue.Someti mes things have to be spelled out.I am not necessarily talking about this time.The thing is when it is mostly like this it compounds..
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-10-12 07:28
Quote:
Then let Dean also exchange looks without dialogue.
Well, as I mentioned, I think that it is a difference in personality. Dean has a more aggressive, in-your-face personality, so he's going to say exactly what he thinks. Sam is more introverted. He tends to think more before he speaks. So it makes sense that he would communicate more in non-verbal ways. Not all the time, certainly, but it's something that has been missing, IMO.
kaj
# kaj 2012-10-12 01:42
Quote:
Dean is in full verbal slinging match mode with Kevin. When Sam offers his first softly spoken opinion and is told snappily to 'stay out of it', he responds with an affectionate and knowing smile. There is a familiarity about this that tells me that Sam knows that he does not have to be involved verbally to win this discussion, a look at the end is all that is needed. And he is right, as we see Dean throw up his hands in defeat.
You're right in this regard. I noticed that too the first time I watched it. But Dean confronted Sam about his new reverse exorcism spell, yet, Sam not confronting him about his control slip during the interrogation. They went straight to the pawn shop and the motel and meeting 'Beau'. Then the 'baby' scene.

I wonder, is there any editing in the episode?
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-10-12 04:27
Quote:
And he is right
Who? Kevin or Sam?
ryder21
# ryder21 2012-10-17 21:37
I was referring to Sam, the paragraph in question was a out my opinion on Sam and Dean's relationship. Thanks.
st50
# st50 2012-10-12 08:13
Quote:
Hi st50. When you refer to your frustration of Sam 'sitting back, slouching in his chair, letting Dean make every decision', the scene that sprang into my mind was at the beginning when Kevin is telling Dean why it is so important that he sees his Mum.

I have a totally different view of this scene and see Sam displaying the visceral relationship the brothers have. Dean is in full verbal slinging match mode with Kevin. When Sam offers his first softly spoken opinion and is told snappily to 'stay out of it', he responds with an affectionate and knowing smile. There is a familiarity about this that tells me that Sam knows that he does not have to be involved verbally to win this discussion, a look at the end is all that is needed. And he is right, as we see Dean throw up his hands in defeat.

I like this, it feels familiar and right.
This was in fact the scene I was referring to, ryder21. And while I agree there were elements of Sam's old nonverbal ways, it seemed TOO quiet. TOO soft. Especially when coupled with the rest of the episode.
I like the thought that this meant to return to the quiet, thoughtful, affectionate Sam, and I hope you're right. I just didn't feel it. Maybe after I see more of his flashbacks, I'll understand how he got there...
Thanks for your insight.
eilf
# eilf 2012-10-13 09:51
My issue with this scene was my TV! :D Hey SPN directors some of us have old-school TVs and if you put your characters on the extreme left and right of the screen they vanish!

Or at least I think that is what was happening - I could check and see if I can adjust it at all...

My first thought about that scene was wow they are seriously sidelining Sam - literally - I can only see half his face!
hedi
# hedi 2012-10-11 10:03
It was a great episode! love the balance of fun and angst in it , they managed it so well.
all the actors were good and new actress was such a great one! I hope we see her more in next episodes!

well , this new dean scares me too! looks like he only cares about killing off demons , no matter what! he doesn't think straight and just wants to pull the trigger! it's the bad-ass dean we all know but much more grown and much more angrier! i think we will see both him and sam getting back to how they were before!
Sam is a mystery to me too! although sam was always calm , he always thinks first and acts second , but in this ep he was calmer than ever and hopefully more clever !!

i liked every minute of this episode and that reunion of cas and dean was just brilliant !

I'm sure we will be seeing more about Purgatory and find out how it all went. and to those who are still saying that the show is about every relation ship except sam and dean : well , be patient !!! it's always about SAM AND DEAN !! AND JEREMY IS HERE TO FIX IT ! JUST GIVE IT TIME!!!
Samantha
# Samantha 2012-10-11 10:13
Quote:
It was a great episode! love the balance of fun and angst in it , they managed it so well.
all the actors were good and new actress was such a great one! I hope we see her more in next episodes!

well , this new dean scares me too! looks like he only cares about killing off demons , no matter what! he doesn't think straight and just wants to pull the trigger! it's the bad-ass dean we all know but much more grown and much more angrier! i think we will see both him and sam getting back to how they were before!
Sam is a mystery to me too! although sam was always calm , he always thinks first and acts second , but in this ep he was calmer than ever and hopefully more clever !!

i liked every minute of this episode and that reunion of cas and dean was just brilliant !

I'm sure we will be seeing more about Purgatory and find out how it all went. and to those who are still saying that the show is about every relation ship except sam and dean : well , be patient !!! it's always about SAM AND DEAN !! AND JEREMY IS HERE TO FIX IT ! JUST GIVE IT TIME!!!
Well I hope you're right, and it does get fixed. Its long overdue now.
E
# E 2012-10-11 11:48
I can understand your frustration those of you who were not happy with this episode, the brothers did seem disconnected from one another. However, to want JC to rush through his ideas and plans of resolution for the brothers because of what SG was doing isn't fair. I know if feels like S&D haven't been on the same page for while now, but for the current show runner the disconnect between the brothers is only TWO episodes old, not two seasons.

For me the brother's estrangement seems purposeful under JC, like he is going somewhere with it, so I don't mind being patient to see how it unfolds. Under SG the estrangement felt accidental or unintentional, like she didn't know what to do with them or that all the good brother scenes got cut due to time/budget constraints (rumored to be a big problem under her leadership). With SG it's like we weren't supposed to notice that things were off with the brothers, like she hadn't intended to show them as estranged, where with JC we are absolutely supposed to see, feel and suffer their disconnect with the understanding that the real story and the growth of their relationship will come along as the season progresses. I for one, don't want this part of the story rushed. All anyone could do last season (me included!) is complain about the awful, rushed resolution to Sam's hell wall story and how totally unsatisfying it was.

I liked the episode and felt that once again there were significant but subtle clues that showed us that there is much more going on under the surface (the reverse exorcism! Not only did Sam have to learn that verbatim, but he had to KNOW it would work). And since Dabb and Laughlin are NOT my favorite writing team I'll count this one as a win.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-10-11 15:00
Very nice comment E, I agree with everything you said. I've said this before but 1 or 2 episodes do not make a season. This uneasiness between the brothers just screams, to me, to be patient and see what JC has in mind. There are too many clues and dropped hints to think definitively that the brothers current relationship is what will be the new normal.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-10-11 10:33
I fall in with the people who enjoyed the episode. I really love that Dean went to such effort to find Cas and gave him a heartfelt hug. As for Sam, I still contend that it's like he's medicated or something. Detached. I think" DeanGrimly" above, is onto something with the genius theory. Did everyone note the instantaneous math-solving abilty of Sam?
As for Sam and Dean's uneasy relationship it doesn't bother me in the least because I know it will be explored soon enough. I am happy that they are not throwing fists or that Sam has not taken off. I still have no problem feeling the love, despite Dean's hurt over Sam's not looking.
The first two episodes have gotten me more interested that all of S7.
I cannot wait for more and feel for those who are ready to give up on the season. I know (hope) that there are many more buried secrets to be revealed that will better explain everyone's motivations. I may have to eat my words but for now I am hooked.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-10-11 10:50
One more quick thought, I think having supporting characters, even though they may occasionally take focus off S&D, are important to this show. They can't operate in a vacuum. S7 took away everyone they counted on and that was a disaster IMO. I think they, as actors and characters, need plenty of people to bounce off of to keep things interesting.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-11 10:57
Quote:
One more quick thought, I think having supporting characters, even though they may occasionally take focus off S&D, are important to this show. They can't operate in a vacuum. S7 took away everyone they counted on and that was a disaster IMO. I think they, as actors and characters, need plenty of people to bounce off of to keep things interesting.
If the supporting characters take the focus off Sam AND Dean eg WaBs then I am all for it. What I hate is where the supporting characters separate the boys and diminish the bond between them. So in this season we have Sam/Amelia (with no Dean involved) pulling Sam away from Dean and explored in flashbacks in which Dean doesn't feature. Then we have Benny who is mainly seen in flashbacks that don't involve Sam and show Dean forming a bond with someone through an experience Sam doesn't share and pulling him away from Sam. THOSE kinds of extra characters I am not interested in. So friends / foes of both boys; Garth, Charlie, Bobby, Sheriff Mills, Kevin, Mrs Trans, Crowley, Dick are all great additions. Amelia, Benny and (depending on how he is used) Cas detract from the heart of the show and are divisive IMO
KELLY
# KELLY 2012-10-11 11:38
I completely understand what your saying, but it still feels deliberate to me. It feels like its leading somewhere, so I'm going to give JC the benefit of the doubt.

Now I will admit I kept thinking they were going somewhere last year and the result was unsatisfying. But, FOR ME, he has already addressed a lot my concerns and is picking up the storyarcs from last season, so I'm willing to give him a bit a leeway.

Now I'll admit my biggest concern from last year was the brothers' relationship and that does seem to have gotten worse. BUT sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. I'm hoping that's the case here.
st50
# st50 2012-10-11 20:42
I am really pleased that Carver has gone back to "smart Sam". This is the guy who was a mathlete kid, had a full ride at Stanford, 174 on his LSATs, and was hoping for a full ride for law school.
Finally a showrunner has remembered that much of who he is..... and hopefully that bodes well for the him remembering what the brother relationship was and should be.
I have hope yet.... but the first 2 episodes and the 'clip' released for the third don't indicate much but picnics for Sam just yet. I sure hope they don't draw this out too long!!
Dean's story is coming at us at a lovely pace, and now Cas..... I need those to continue too. (Too demanding? lol)
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-10-12 04:34
Quote:
I am really pleased that Carver has gone back to "smart Sam". This is the guy who was a mathlete kid, had a full ride at Stanford, 174 on his LSATs, and was hoping for a full ride for law school. Finally a showrunner has remembered that much of who he is.....
Exactly..
kaj
# kaj 2012-10-11 10:38
OKAY! I am going to start with what I like.

- When Sam and Dean said Whoa at the same time.
- Sam smells a demon. (Finally, continuity) Though it makes me worried for a second there. Sammy smells Demon blood is never good.
- The reappearance of a Winchester Tattoo.
- Dean reassuring Baby
- Badass Dean
- Dangerous, savage Dean in that interrogation room creep me out but Jensen pull it Soooo well. As I always say, I want to see Jensen plays bad guy more often. Because he shines in this kind of role. I guess I get my wish. :-D
- Sam throwing Mjolnr. I hope he get to keep it. I mean Dean has that wicked bone-axe weapon.
- The geek Sam is back. Reverse exorcism and quick math? Oh, Sam where have you been last season? But, of course it rises a doubt whether Sam really out of hunting while Dean was in Purgatory. It's just too out of the blue for it to be believable.

Now, a question. Why did Sam's characterizatio n flips? Last episode he did not really care of Kevin's safety. Hewas reluctant to help and protect Kevin, yet, he knew that Crowley would not let Kevin live even if Kevin bailed out of the tablet business. Now, he is the one who is upset about Kevin leaving? Saying that Crowley would be after him no matter what?

It's back like in season 7 when Sam and Dean's characterizatio n was inconsistent.
KELLY
# KELLY 2012-10-11 11:20
Quote:

- Sam smells a demon. (Finally, continuity) Though it makes me worried for a second there. Sammy smells Demon blood is never good.
I didn't even think of that!! I thought he smelled the sulfur, but your answer is much cooler and another clue something is up, I think.

I completely agree with all your likes-Sam better have kept that Mjolnr, 'cause that was great.

I think Sam did care about Kevin last episode. Even if there is no twist, he just said he was getting out completely, because saving everyone again and again wasn't always up to him. But later he even argued Kevin's involvement with Dean, worried about Kevin's safety.

I think he didn't want Kevin to take off this time because they wouldn't be able to protect him.
kaj
# kaj 2012-10-12 02:01
I remember season 5 'My Bloody valentine' where Sam smelt a demon with a briefcase containing human's soul coming out of the forensic office. Sam smelt the demon at the time they walked pass each other and the episode was about hunger, famine. Of course Sam would be affected from the get go.

last night's episode, Sam smelt a demon again where in previous 2 seasons there was no indication about his addiction.

I am not sure about the writer in this episode. Is there a sign there? Is there any other motif/plan inserting that particular line in Sam's dialog? Is it part of the bigger picture for this season? Or is it just something that they just threw at us and never plan to visit it again?

Is it because they need a tool/a reason so that Sam and Dean can rush up inside the house in order for Sam to do his reverse exorcism thing?

In order for Sam to be present for the reverse exorcism scene he has to enter the house and find out about the demon neighbor. Ms. Tran can easily invite them to come in but writing a line about Sam smelling demon is two edge sword. They have to write the follow up to that because it has become another loose thread for this season.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-12 04:12
Quote:
I remember season 5 'My Bloody valentine' where Sam smelt a demon with a briefcase containing human's soul coming out of the forensic office. Sam smelt the demon at the time they walked pass each other and the episode was about hunger, famine. Of course Sam would be affected from the get go.

last night's episode, Sam smelt a demon again where in previous 2 seasons there was no indication about his addiction.

I am not sure about the writer in this episode. Is there a sign there? Is there any other motif/plan inserting that particular line in Sam's dialog? Is it part of the bigger picture for this season? Or is it just something that they just threw at us and never plan to visit it again?

Is it because they need a tool/a reason so that Sam and Dean can rush up inside the house in order for Sam to do his reverse exorcism thing?

In order for Sam to be present for the reverse exorcism scene he has to enter the house and find out about the demon neighbor. Ms. Tran can easily invite them to come in but writing a line about Sam smelling demon is two edge sword. They have to write the follow up to that because it has become another loose thread for this season.
I assumed that Sam smelled sulphur. That is the big giveaway for a demon presence, and they are always asking their victims if they have felt any cold spots, or smelled sulphur.

I was suspicious about Sam though. The most obvious thing was the reverse exorcism. But I also spotted a few 'moments' between Sam and Crowley. For example at one point in the auction Crowley said 'you can't kill ALL my black-eyed boys..' then very specifically looked at Sam and said 'can you Samantha'. Sam looked, to me, as if he was worried what Crowley was going to say next. That could have just been a ref back to Sam's demon-blood powers, but I wondered if there was more to it, and it was another indication of something Sam got up to while Dean was in Purgatory.

Also has anyone else noticed how tired and beat down they have Sam looking? He is badly shaven, shoulders slumped, and looks exhausted. Too tired for a man who (if we are to believe next weeks trailer) spent a year eating healthy, having picnics and walking a dog.

Hope they are going somewhere with this.
kaj
# kaj 2012-10-12 05:51
Quote:
That could have just been a ref back to Sam's demon-blood powers, but I wondered if there was more to it, and it was another indication of something Sam got up to while Dean was in Purgatory.
If we combine Sam's encounter with Crowley AND the the scene in the Tran's house (Sam smelling Demon) those two are too much to be a coincidence. I am sorry but I can't shake it. It bug me :D

Quote:
Also has anyone else noticed how tired and beat down they have Sam looking? He is badly shaven, shoulders slumped, and looks exhausted. Too tired for a man who (if we are to believe next weeks trailer) spent a year eating healthy, having picnics and walking a dog.

Hope they are going somewhere with this.
We can't ignore these any more. There are signs indicating that there should be something more with Sam other than just living 'normal' life.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-10-12 07:23
Quote:
I was suspicious about Sam though. The most obvious thing was the reverse exorcism. But I also spotted a few 'moments' between Sam and Crowley. For example at one point in the auction Crowley said 'you can't kill ALL my black-eyed boys..' then very specifically looked at Sam and said 'can you Samantha'. Sam looked, to me, as if he was worried what Crowley was going to say next. That could have just been a ref back to Sam's demon-blood powers, but I wondered if there was more to it, and it was another indication of something Sam got up to while Dean was in Purgatory.
I noticed this too! And Sam's personality is more to ignore a comment like that from Crowley, but he very quickly turned around and told him to "shut up." Intriguing.
Blue
# Blue 2012-10-11 10:53
Dean's year long warrior act and PTSD are being given huge play right now. Because he's Dean. Sam wasn't evan allowed to show his feelings and vulnerabilities after he suddenly had the memories of centuries of torture dumped into his brain in one shocking moment that nearly killed him. Because I wasn't allowed to watch Sam's suffering, I cannot care about Dean's. Dean's feelings are NOT better and more important than Sam's or any other person on earth's.

If Dean gets some big, teary confessional moment this season over Purgatory, or anything really, when Sam didn't get one for this time in the Cage, for going insane, for having constant hallucinations, I'm going to be livid, not sympathetic.

I expect this episode to be entertaining, if nothing else. But I'm disappointed to hear that Sam and Dean are the same strangers they were in Season 7. Jeremy Carver said he was putting Sam and Dean's Relationship first this season, but is he really? They need to rewatch the show from Seasons 1-3 ONLY to find the heart of the show again. Is this just about giving J2 time off now? This show has to do better than Dean Angry, Sam Silent all the time.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-10-11 11:17
I do agree about the neglect of Sam's Cage experience vs. Dean's Purgatory. I am a little more forgiving because we now have a different show runner. That said, if we don't get a sympathetic view of Sam then I will be furious. I would prefer for them to revisit the Cage, but realistically that was 2 seasons ago (or one if you count from when the wall broke) and 2-3 years story time.

For me showing Sam's POV now is crucial. It is obvious that they are going to deal with Dean's trauma. I do require that Sam's loss and trauma be addressed as well.
st50
# st50 2012-10-11 13:34
Agree with both Blue and percysowner.
There'd better be something planned here!
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-10-11 13:45
Quote:
Agree with both Blue and percysowner.
There'd better be something planned here!
I dont know ? I dont know where we are with Sam? . I dont know wether what he has gone through with the cage is playing a role? or wether the writers are going with Sam is fixed so lets airbrush it out?. Dean's damage from Purgatory is so self evident it is slapping you in the face and screaming at you. With Sam its so quiet you could hear a pin drop. I dont know wether to be intrigued or concerned?.
st50
# st50 2012-10-11 20:44
Quote:
Quote:
Agree with both Blue and percysowner.
There'd better be something planned here!
I dont know ? I dont know where we are with Sam? . I dont know wether what he has gone through with the cage is playing a role? or wether the writers are going with Sam is fixed so lets airbrush it out?. Dean's damage from Purgatory is so self evident it is slapping you in the face and screaming at you. With Sam its so quiet you could hear a pin drop. I dont know wether to be intrigued or concerned?.
I'm going with cautious optimism.
Anon
# Anon 2012-10-12 02:16
I understand how u feel. Its sad that the hallucinations were kind of brushed under the carpet. It was a superb sl that could have been explored well. But just becos Sera didnt handle that well does not mean JC has to do that same thing to Dean's sl right? I mean I dont want to poke my right eye just becos my left eye has a problem. Not trying to bellitle ur feelings cos am totally with u. I really feel Sam needs a solid POV episode soon. But wanting Sam to have a good flashback, emo episode need not be at the cost of Dean's. I can enjoy both. I guess I dont want to hold Sam's sl flaw in season 7 against JC. Atleast we're getting to see purgatory and that its not brushed away like hell.
digyd
# digyd 2012-10-11 10:55
As usual, I will comment first, then go back to read and comment on everyone else's. I wonder how much will flow out of my head right now. Let's see:

1 - Yeah. After I watched the show the second time last night (because this will be my new habit, I see), it was then that I realized where the 5/8 virgin came from. Yikes!

2 - So, Thor's hammer? Is it just from the movie that he's the only one who can actually pick the thing up? Just wondering.

3 - I was wondering who that angel was! I knew he looked familiar! Cool. Loved him. Glad to know angels are still alive, much like I am glad to know God is helping Kevin and is therefore very much alive as well.

4 - PURGATORY DEAN ROCKS! OMG, I am loving this Dean more than ever. He reminded me of Soulless Sam too, except yeah, I was thinking he may have to be Dean's heart this time around except he doesn't seem to be as into it. He's sitting back a lot. Talking to Kevin at the table, it was just odd to me how he barely interjected. He really seems done. Can't wait to see what's going on with him because right now I am really liking this somewhat indifferent Sam. And it's like Dean is too caught up in his ways to even notice it.

5 - Kevin. How many times did he shut Dean up in that ep? The last ep with Sam in the car? He is awesome and I am so glad his mom wasn't a wimp. Now we can see where he gets it from. Who IS his daddy, anyway? Ha! Love it!

6 - I am excited. I love this. It is fun. It is edgy. It IS fast paced. Even Crowley has a harder edge to him and since he's the King of Hell, it's about time he acted like it! I can't believe Tiger Mom was able to be burned so easily to get possessed, but Crowley said he wanted to defile her. Oh no! What WILL happen to her?

7 - Moose and Squirrel. Ha!

8 - I will kill you, your children AND your grandchildren! Double ha!

9 - Dean being so willing to listen to Cas and Benny over there on the sidelines and the emotional ups and downs of it all. I'm not believing Cas, though. He ran to protect Dean? Seems like there is more to it.

10 - Did I say this episode rocked? Just like the last one? My tweet last night is I don't give a flying moose and squirrel what the negative nellies have to say about this one. The writers/showrun ners, etc. are headed in the right way for my taste and I was happy with them all along. Keep it up, guys!

::Deep breath::

I know there is more, but I need to go be productive in ways that pay me now.

Oh! The way they did that flash back and had Dean doing the same thing in the present time? Yeah. I liked that lots. And Dean being so freaking observant and Sam showing all that brain, even competing with Kevin a little? Sweet.

Mean Dean. So beautiful to me. Dispassionate Sam, intriguing to see.

Sigh. Next Wednesday will be forever.
Luciano
# Luciano 2012-10-11 11:34
Ok this pisses me off what happened with are fandom. You all complain about everything!!!! Last week was a episode which was totally and fully about the brothers. Not even the closing the gates of hell part was that BIG. People complained that it was slow. I personally think that after the ending of last season they had to explain and bring in vrotherly moments as they successfully did. In the second episode which in my opinion was one of the best of the series, it had more action and less brotherly moments. After the episode last week what do you expect its SPN after all. Plus this episode Kevin (not complaining, as i like his character) was always present they couldnt talk alone. STOP Complaining and anylise the episodes well. The series cant be all brotherly moments, and the series cant be all action. They found the perfect balance as in the 5 seasons
digyd
# digyd 2012-10-11 12:02
Here, here, Luciano.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-10-11 12:33
Luciano, I understand your frustration. No matter how many positive things are happening on the show, there are always people who see the glass as half empty(way more than half in some cases). I really don't understand that attitude but they DO have the right to their opinions. I am another who feels that the relationship problems between S&D are very deliberate. Not a carryover from last year that won't be adressed. If every failing of past seasons get brought and rehashed over and over how can we move on and give the new showrunner/writ ers a chance to right some wrongs?
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-11 12:42
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Luciano, I understand your frustration. No matter how many positive things are happening on the show, there are always people who see the glass as half empty(way more than half in some cases). I really don't understand that attitude but they DO have the right to their opinions. I am another who feels that the relationship problems between S&D are very deliberate. Not a carryover from last year that won't be adressed. If every failing of past seasons get brought and rehashed over and over how can we move on and give the new showrunner/writers a chance to right some wrongs?
I don't want to be lumped in with the 'people' you and Luciano are talking about. I didn't complain ep1 was slow. I am NOT a glass half empty person. I am an optimist and up to last week was a hugely happy camper and a positive poster. I have not gone on about how rubbish SG was. I don't believe that. I loved s7, and the second half of s6.

My issue is not that I am a pessimist, or never satisfied, or that I have unrealistic expectations, or loads of baggage from previous seasons. I came into this full of hope and support for JC.

My issue is simply that I am genuinely unhappy with the direction the show has taken in s8. I feel it is a betrayal of the character of Sam, and diminishes the special nature of the bond between Dean and Sam, and the way it has been structured will contain a lot of separate stories and a focus on separate relationships for the 2 boys. I have right to hold that opinion, and it is shared by many others.

I am pleased you love it. The last thing I want is for viewers to desert in droves. I love the show. But I have a right to state when I am not happy, and would prefer not to be generalised about as if I am just a moaner where nothing is ever good enough.

Thanks
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-10-11 13:15
Geordiegirl1967 -If you noticed I said everyone has a right to their opinions. I did not not mention names. I did not say anyone "moaned". When I used the word "people" I was not trying to be condescending. I am just empathsizing with Luciano's comment. I won't know if I love the season as a whole until it progresses more. Please understand that I want many of the same things as you do. I feel positive about many things this season and want to give it time, thats all.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-11 17:24
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Geordiegirl1967-If you noticed I said everyone has a right to their opinions. I did not not mention names. I did not say anyone "moaned". When I used the word "people" I was not trying to be condescending. I am just empathsizing with Luciano's comment. I won't know if I love the season as a whole until it progresses more. Please understand that I want many of the same things as you do. I feel positive about many things this season and want to give it time, thats all.
My comments were responding to luciano too, and also others I have encountered. Sorry if it sounded personal. It wasn't meant that way.

I am trying to be positive but am finding it hard atm.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-10-11 20:09
I'm truly sorry, Geordiegirl. I do understand. If the brothers bond is your biggest issue, it is also mine. I do not want to repeat brother rifts of the past(the really bad ones, not the everyday ones). I also want S&D to be the main focus. The difference is that I can see this is all going somewhere and want to take the journey with hope. Peace :)
ciar
# ciar 2012-10-11 12:12
I don't think that people want the series to be just one thing or another: that's a false dichotomy. The people who have concerns about the direction of recent plots, and the two main characters, would like a more skilful blending of the brotherly moments + action.

In the last few years the SPN has tended more towards action, and epic stories, and less towards the brotherly bond and closeness between Sam and Dean of S1-3. Those of us who started watching because of the brotherly bond are really missing it and would like to see it strengthened.

I thought the first episode showed promise and I wanted to see it built upon. My reason for not enjoying this second episode was that I felt it didn't follow on well from the first. It felt disjointed and jarring.
Geordiegirl1967
# Geordiegirl1967 2012-10-11 12:46
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I don't think that people want the series to be just one thing or another: that's a false dichotomy. The people who have concerns about the direction of recent plots, and the two main characters, would like a more skilful blending of the brotherly moments + action.

In the last few years the SPN has tended more towards action, and epic stories, and less towards the brotherly bond and closeness between Sam and Dean of S1-3. Those of us who started watching because of the brotherly bond are really missing it and would like to see it strengthened.
Well said Ciar. I totally agree. I want less divisiveness in the show - so that those who love the brotherly bond can have that, but that there is also room for Cas, Bobby, Garth etc. At the moment we are having to EITHER have Dean/Benny or Sam/Amelia. But while either of those stories are being pursued we cannot have the brotherly bond. It is almost designed to set factions of the fandom against each other. Its unnecessary IMO. We need a better balance.
Ardeospina
# Ardeospina 2012-10-11 20:01
ADMIN WARNING!

Luciano, please know that you're treading a fine line with your comment here. Everyone is allowed to voice their opinion on our site, as long as they aren't attacking people or getting into Sam vs. Dean nonsense. If someone is unhappy with the episode or the way the season is heading, they are well within their rights to express that. Please keep that in mind when you make further comments. There are going to be times when you disagree with comments made on this site, but that's what makes it great!

Keep it respectful, please.
Ginger
# Ginger 2012-10-11 12:19
On second re-watch I am definitely on the I Like This Episode ...a lot, in fact.

I have no complaints with the brothers working together, but no on the same page. That was spoiled since Comic Con, along with the fact that Carver himself, and both Jared and Jensen, have said that the brothers' relationship is the core of the show. It's been two damned episodes. We are not there yet. That's what they are working towards this season.

I find both brothers completely in character. I would have liked to see Sam be a little more forceful in pulling Dean back there in the jail cell, but he did pull in back.

Sam's story is coming. Personally, I can almost guarantee that I am not going to like it, and I've said that before, but he has a story and that story is consistent with his character. I love to see the Sam incredulous faces at Dean again. And I really like that they remembered Sam was a mathalete, every bit as smart as Advanced Placement Kevin.

I absolutely love hot MeanDean and JA is playing to his strengths. I could watch this Dean forever. My favorite flavor of Sam is empathetic and supportive of his brother. I think we'll get there as the season progresses.

Hey, Sam. In Dean's current state, he will kill you, your kids, and your grandkids if you mess with the Impala. That was a cute scene.

My opinion of Kevin remains the same. I hope we see only a limited amount of him. If I never see a bratty teenager on TV again, I will feel blessed. Now his mom? I liked her. I hope she remains limited, but if they cut the apron strings to Kevin, she'd be okay. The actress was really good.

Crowley is not intimidating as the big bad, even if I still do like the character. I just can't figure out why he doesn't just kill the Winchesters and nab Kevin.

Next week, Sam's side comes out. I'm as excited to see Amelia as I was Lisa/Ben, which is not at all, but I am looking forward to Jensen's dad and I still think Jeremy will do a better job with the love interest story than SG did with Dean's.

I wouldn't object to seeing Alfie again. I liked that character. Of course, I would have liked to see Innais (sp?? from last season) back, too.

I am loving this season, and I like what Jeremy is doing with the show. My hope MeanDean doesn't go away after 13 episodes.
digyd
# digyd 2012-10-11 12:45
Ahh. Vel-cum, Ginger! So good to have you! I am certain there is a comfortable spot here on our good ship Patience as we ride the tumultuous seas of confusion and excitement. I suspect we will be riding in this fog for quite some time to come, but Carver has proven a great captain before and seems to be doing a great job now so I think most of us are against mutiny at the moment and just wanna row along with him for awhile. Hope you brought a life jacket though! It seems relatively easy to get tossed over if you're not careful!

;-)
Ginger
# Ginger 2012-10-11 20:10
I'm on-board with you, but I'm not bailing. I'm going down with this ship.

And, thank you.
hedi
# hedi 2012-10-12 00:51
Thank you for saying what ever i had in mind!! I do believe that Supernatural is about Sam and Dean together. each of them can / should have their own problems and it will concern each of them in other's problems, one way or another!
and it's only 2 episodes , i think we shouldn't judge this early about a 23-episodes- season already~!
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-10-11 12:29
You could very well be right Ginger in Jeremy doing a better job of the love sl than Lisa . He is already doing a better job of Dean's Purgatory than they did for Sam's so called cage sl.
etheldred
# etheldred 2012-10-11 12:37
But he was not only showrunner but writer for 8.1, and the introduction of Amelia I thought was really, really badly done, far worse than anything with Dean and Lisa. It just made ridiculously little sense (if you were an upstanding person you wouldn't have hit a dog? hello? that seemed to be in there to drive home some point about Sam and responsibility that made sense from Dean talking about himself and Kevin, but was utterly tacked on and contrived coming from a perfect stranger in a situation where she was the one whose behavior was out of line and unprofessional) . I hope Caver WILL do an overall better job than the first glimpse suggested, and that he will be as careful to bring Sam's issues into the relationship as s6 was with Dean's rather than going with the romcom some spoilers have suggested, but at the moment that scene is the worst of the season so far, in my opinion, so I'm not very confident.
Ginger
# Ginger 2012-10-11 20:03
I am not in Carver's mind about Amelia, but it wouldn't be unheard of for Amelia to be bitchy to build sympathy for Sam.
Also, Amelia is a 'damaged soul' as Sam is, and it's not unheard of for hurting women to be bitchy.

Mind you, I don't like Amelia and I don't like love stories, so I am not making excuses for her or Carver. My point is that it is too early in the season to be making such severe judgments about Carver. Hell, I even gave SG half a season with Lisa/Ben/Dean, before I finally gave up and called BS.
Ginger
# Ginger 2012-10-11 20:15
I had two requirements for this season: That both brothers have a story and that both of those stories be brought to conclusion. I'm okay with letting the showrunner pick the direction for the stories and, in this case, I love MeanDean, I wanted MeanDean, so I'm thrilled. I hope that it doesn't end after 13 episodes.

I don't like and will never like love stories on SPN, but that's the route Carver picked to take Sam, so the only consideration is if there is a purpose for that story (Sam experiences character growth) and if it is brought to conclusion. Those two things we don't know about yet; i.e., patience and letting the season unfold.
eilf
# eilf 2012-10-11 12:50
I think that Benny is going to convince Dean that Cas betrayed him (again) and doesn't have his best interests at heart. If that is the case then Dean would have to believe it completely in order to leave Cas behind in Purgatory for whatever reason and apparently not feel guilty about it.

I think that Cas has escaped and Sam has met up with him already.
etheldred
# etheldred 2012-10-11 13:01
I really, really want the mysterious figure watching Sam's house to be Cas. I don't think it is, but I want it to be, and I am going to cling to the possibility until it is ruthlessly jossed.
eilf
# eilf 2012-10-11 16:58
Or Cas gets jossed...I hope that doesn't happen!
SPN Fan
# SPN Fan 2012-10-11 13:24
Not sure if anyone noticed this but the ratings for this episode stands at 2.6 million. This is huge. Last season ended at 1.5 million. So its a great step forward. Lets rejoice.
For all those people who feel the brothers feel estranged, here's my take... for the last few seasons the brothers start off great and then the relationship frustratingly goes downhill. Maybe this time they start off with issues but end up stronger than ever. JC said this season the boys come together not becos they have to but becos they want to. So hold on for a while longer. We may get back the Sam & Dean of old.
On a separate note... here's hoping this show can cross the 3 million mark this season.
etheldred
# etheldred 2012-10-11 13:28
I think the ratings are largely due to the series premiere of Arrow, which is a new show that a lot of people are pretty excited about -- last week Spn's ratings were very much in its usual range (which is nothing to sneeze at, by the CW's standards it does very, very well). But if Arrow holds up well it should be a very good match, with Arrow bringing in new viewers and Spn supplying veteran ballast.
SPN Fan
# SPN Fan 2012-10-11 13:42
Its possible that Arrow brought in more viewers. I actually didnt think of that. But last weeks lesser numbers could also be becos of the presedential debate and SPN probably has an increased fan base now on its own merit :) Am an eteral optimist who hopes this show never goes off the air. So dont mind me.
m1tchells
# m1tchells 2012-10-11 16:24
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But last weeks lesser numbers could also be becos of the presedential debate
Not only that, but the lead in last week was that "Oh Sit" show. Not knocking the show because I have never seen it, but definitely not the right lead in for our show. Arrow and SPN are going to be a great team!
Ginger
# Ginger 2012-10-11 20:18
There were also a number of cable station contracting issue where the show wasn't shown. Many local stations dropped the CW because of the contract issues. I don't know if those have been resolved or not.

I watched Arrow and it wasn't bad. Oliver is no Dean Winchester, but there was lots of money put in special effects and fight scenes and they were pretty awesome.
digyd
# digyd 2012-10-11 20:41
I can tell you no, they have not resolved that situation. A friend of mine only watches CW to see Supernatural and didn't find out until she was ready to see the premiere that the station has actually been gone since August. But CW is showing it online so she has a way.
LEAH D
# LEAH D 2012-10-11 13:31
Thanks SPN fan, that is great news! I think the pairing of Arrow and Supernatural is brilliant. I watched the premiere of Arrow last night and thought it was very good!!
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-10-12 16:58
Quote:
Not sure if anyone noticed this but the ratings for this episode stands at 2.6 million. This is huge. Last season ended at 1.5 million. So its a great step forward. Lets rejoice.
Really? That's great news! :)
EireneS
# EireneS 2012-10-11 14:41
I really liked this episode, thought it moved very nicely and was intelligently written and beautifully acted by all. Sam and Dean-what a saga! We know they love each other no matter what but we also know that they don't agree on everything. They are two different people that come together through family duty and love for each other to do a job they both believe in. But after a year apart experiencing such different lives-Sam finally had some happiness, without the family duty hanging over him to make him feel guilty and Dean fought 24/7 for his life and to find his friend Cass. He found Purgatory almost "pure" in its good/bad substance and was able to just do his thing without guilt-he continued the lessons he learned in hell. But will purgatory and his hell experience dull his humane sympathies? He was ready to kill Mrs Tran and said he was sorry he hadn't-"what's one more nightmare" is how he phrased it. Dean's mind must be a boiling mess of guilt, duty, love, remorse-so much angst brought under control by having to fight 24/7 just to live.
I still maintain he has a kind of PTSD and Sam is aware of that. Sam knows Dean. And Dean knows Sam. But now they have to learn about each other again after a year of different experiences. Just like we do as viewers into their lives.
I am following them every week to see what happens because it is exciting, interesting and I care about the story of these two people.
Nate
# Nate 2012-10-11 15:28
WOW WOW WOW! Season 8 off to an excellent start! Not much to add to Ardeospina's great recap other than:
1. What is the particularly glaring incident you speak of?
2. Of all the reviews I have read today on last night's episode, yours is the ONLY so far to question Sam's reverse spell. Based on Dean's "What did you do there?!?!" reaction, that was an Onion layer from Sam's past year being removed I bet! I immediately thought we will see that play out in a flashback. COME ON kids, of course Sammy would look for Dean....unless something else happened we have not yet seen.
3. Sera WHO? THANK YOU Jeremy Carver. Will you be my Valentine? Our show is BACK!
m1tchells
# m1tchells 2012-10-11 16:47
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2. Of all the reviews I have read today on last night's episode, yours is the ONLY so far to question Sam's reverse spell.
That moment was one of THE standout moments for me in this episode! I almost fell off the sofa and scared my dog to death with my near scream of "a ha!". Defintely thought something was up at that point because Sam was far to quick and practiced for that to be nothing. But then...he did the super fast/smart math and I can't quite figure out how that figures in to hunting.... so I'm back to the speculating board.
suzee51
# suzee51 2012-10-11 18:27
"Defintely thought something was up at that point because Sam was far too quick and practiced for that to be nothing. But then...he did the super fast/smart math and I can't quite figure out how that figures in to hunting.... so I'm back to the speculating board."

In Season 4's episode "Metamorphosis" , an old hunter/ friend comments on how big Sam has grown and asks if he is still a "mathlete" - a term referring to someone who is unusually good with math. In many respects, Sam was as gifted in his studies as we have seen Kevin to be. If it wasn't at all surprising to hear Kevin do a quick math computation in his head, the same can be said for Sam.

But I too was perplexed by Sam's easy recital of the backwards exorcism!
m1tchells
# m1tchells 2012-10-11 20:49
I do remember about Sam being a "mathlete" and agree that Sam has always been shown to very intelligent. Wasn't trying to imply anything different. Definitely not comparing Kevin to Sam. Both scenes just stood out to me. Like we were supposed to notice them more maybe? I don't know. Just pondering ideas! ;-)
E
# E 2012-10-12 22:38
This thing about the quick math could also be a little nod to Jared himself; kind of like an inside joke, because apparently Jared is very quick with figures. At a con a while back (maybe Spain???) Jensen told a story about how quick in math Jared is and how it impresses Jensen. He even said about Jared while relating the story "I'm gonna brag on him a little bit..." Very cute.
Ardeospina
# Ardeospina 2012-10-11 20:06
Quote:
WOW WOW WOW! Season 8 off to an excellent start! Not much to add to Ardeospina's great recap other than:
1. What is the particularly glaring incident you speak of?
The glaring incident I was talking about is then they leave Kevin Tran alone in the room with his mom. I believe it's the next bullet point in my recap. Which, I should have mentioned! Anyway, I didn't think that was very smart at all.
Nate
# Nate 2012-10-12 08:30
Ah! Good point. Yes it was probably not too smart of the boys to do that. To be fair to them, they were having their own talk, and with Tiger Mommy being so catatonic, I bet the boys thought there was no way Kevin would take the Mommy and run. I like how the boys are back as square one. I forgot what it was like to have the show suprise the viewers!
suzee51
# suzee51 2012-10-11 18:18
Samandiriel: angel of imagination and visualization.

What's that all about?
Beverly
# Beverly 2012-10-12 11:26
I looked it up and noticed that too - on another website it mentions that he's the angel of fertility also . . . :lol: I don't think that's a problem with this show . . . it is too easy to have "fertile" thoughts especially with Sam's long hair and Purgatory Dean Hotness . . . just saying :D
kaj
# kaj 2012-10-13 00:30
LOL Beverly. You're not the only one. It's not our fault to have that thought. Who can even resist their hotness anyway. :D
doboodoby
# doboodoby 2012-10-11 20:53
i really don't care about Kevin or Kevin’s mom even Crowley i really care about sam and dean and this is why i watch supernatural and the show isn't about their relationship any more it's about dean and benny relationship and cas and dean relationship but sam and dean nooo
Carole Noble
# Carole Noble 2012-10-12 18:12
Did anyone notice, that is the first time we've ever seen Crowely Red eye?!


Kevin's Mom was awesome!


Dean is scary at the right now, and I think Sam is back to how he was in Season 1 - 2


Cas, where are you?!
E
# E 2012-10-12 22:42
Actually we didn't really see Crowley's eyes turn red, we saw Mrs. Tran's eyes turn red and heard Crowley's voice. We saw red smoke too, but never saw either the eyes or the smoke connected directly to Crowley. Maybe I am splitting hairs, but I think that the PTB are teasing us with the 'we've never seen Crowley's eyes turn' idea, but suggesting it, but still not showing. Too much of an inside joke??? Am I reading too deep?
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-10-12 23:42
I thought the same thing. At first I thought, well now we have proof Crowley is a demon, but then I thought we only saw the eyes and the smoke in Mrs. Tran AND since when has a demon had the same voice in 2 different hosts. Meg never reverted to her "original" voice when she possessed Sam or when she switched hosts. Ruby inhabited 4 hosts (Ruby 1, secretary Ruby, Ruby 2, and maid Ruby) and all of them used the voices of the meat suit they were using at the time. Actually there is no real proof that Ruby 1 and Ruby 2 were the same demon, although I am sure she was.

I just don't know about Crowley. I think they are working very hard to convince us he is a strong demon, BUT, they could be being cagey.
E
# E 2012-10-13 05:58
Very good point about the voices, I never even thought of that. Even high level demons like Azazel, Alistair and Lilith all used the voice of their host rather than their "own" voice (or the voice of the host that we are familiar with when moving from one meatsuit to another. Hmmmm, they are teasing us I think... or maybe have something really cool lined up for Crowley that will explain why he would keep his original meatsuit voice while in another meatsuit.
digyd
# digyd 2012-10-13 08:01
Why would the King of Hell act like everyone else, even high level demons who would not be higher than him? I think it may be as simple as we have never seen Crowley's eyes turn red before so to cut down on the confusion (or to stir it up?) let's make it clear he is in Mrs. Tran by using his voice. And while we are at it, let's add a cool effect like red eyes and red smoke. Fun and done.
Samantha
# Samantha 2012-11-03 00:00
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I've been waiting for a reference to Moose, Squirrel for a couple years now, and shouted "yay" when Crowley said it. :D
Me too :)



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sorry but it was horrible episode. What in the hell are the writers doing to this show? Sam and Dean’s relationship is basically non existent.
I agree. I don't even recognise the show at the moment. Sam and Dean barely spoke to each other or made eye contact last night. Both are, to difft degrees, acting ooc. It's just not fun to watch. Plus I cannot summon any interest in what went on in Purgatory.

Still waiting for the show I love to come back from hiatus.
I agree, too. Found the episode underwhelming.
You said aloud what I was thinking in my head. :-) I agree the twists and turns must be brilliant, but somewhere along the way they've lost the heart and soul of the show :sad:
I'm really hoping that the writers begin working on fixing Sam and Dean's behaviour to/with each other. The brothers haven't been properly close with each other for ages now - I miss the Sam and Dean who cared about each other; this Sam and Dean are like colleagues rather than brothers. It seems that for the last couple of seasons Dean has spent most of his time pissed off (and angry) with Sam and Sam seems to have spent most of his time keeping secrets from Dean. They're both distant with each other and very rarely seem to exhibit their brotherly connection from the early years. These character behaviours do not make interesting plot elements: the brothers talking to each other and working out their problems together, being an effective hunting team, and protecting each other from the rest of the world makes interesting plots.
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I completely agree with you.

Things I enjoyed in the show are
Sam's reverse exorcism : when did he learn to do that ?
Dean loosening his tie : So Hot.
Dean talking to Baby after Sam suggest they put a bid on her.
Crowley calling Sam; Samantha : Loved it cause my name's Samantha as well. Lame, I know :-)

Whats the secret about Kevin's father? Who is he? Any theories?
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-03 00:25
Quote:
Whats the secret about Kevin's father? Who is he? Any theories?
No theories as to Kevin's father. My stock answer is as long as it's not John Winchester, I'm good.
Samantha
# Samantha 2012-11-03 00:44
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Whats the secret about Kevin's father? Who is he? Any theories?
No theories as to Kevin's father. My stock answer is as long as it's not John Winchester, I'm good.
:D I don't think its John.
But why bring it up if its of no importance?Quote:
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I remember season 5 'My Bloody valentine' where Sam smelt a demon with a briefcase containing human's soul coming out of the forensic office. Sam smelt the demon at the time they walked pass each other and the episode was about hunger, famine. Of course Sam would be affected from the get go.

last night's episode, Sam smelt a demon again where in previous 2 seasons there was no indication about his addiction.

I am not sure about the writer in this episode. Is there a sign there? Is there any other motif/plan inserting that particular line in Sam's dialog? Is it part of the bigger picture for this season? Or is it just something that they just threw at us and never plan to visit it again?

Is it because they need a tool/a reason so that Sam and Dean can rush up inside the house in order for Sam to do his reverse exorcism thing?

In order for Sam to be present for the reverse exorcism scene he has to enter the house and find out about the demon neighbor. Ms. Tran can easily invite them to come in but writing a line about Sam smelling demon is two edge sword. They have to write the follow up to that because it has become another loose thread for this season.
I assumed that Sam smelled sulphur. That is the big giveaway for a demon presence, and they are always asking their victims if they have felt any cold spots, or smelled sulphur.

I was suspicious about Sam though. The most obvious thing was the reverse exorcism. But I also spotted a few 'moments' between Sam and Crowley. For example at one point in the auction Crowley said 'you can't kill ALL my black-eyed boys..' then very specifically looked at Sam and said 'can you Samantha'. Sam looked, to me, as if he was worried what Crowley was going to say next. That could have just been a ref back to Sam's demon-blood powers, but I wondered if there was more to it, and it was another indication of something Sam got up to while Dean was in Purgatory.

Also has anyone else noticed how tired and beat down they have Sam looking? He is badly shaven, shoulders slumped, and looks exhausted. Too tired for a man who (if we are to believe next weeks trailer) spent a year eating healthy, having picnics and walking a dog.

Hope they are going somewhere with this.
I assumed he smelled Sulphur too, and this that Samantha comment ties in to the looks Crowley gave to Sam in episode 1 as well


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I don't mind the programme focusing on other characters, I realise that the entire focus can't be about Sam and Dean 100% of the time (and I have really enjoyed some of the more interesting secondary characters over the years) but I do mind if they try to use that focus to diminish the bond between the Winchesters.
exactly