Phew. That week hiatus was nasty...and we're screaming towards the 5-times as nasty, 5-week hiatus. Just 2 episodes until the break. A-wah! But before we start hyperventilating at the thought of over a month without a new episode of "Supernatural"…let's preview this week!
  
THEN
 
He's baaaaaack. Castiel returneth from Purgatory and he knows not how.
Dean shared some feelings.
Sam gave advise on "survivor's guilt"
Kevin lost his pinkie.
The Word of God got broken in half…again.
And...those freakin' angels are up to no good…again!
 
NOW
 
KABLAMO AND KAPOWEE AND KABOOM. It looks like "Supernatural" Acme style!
 
You can never tell if what appears to be a comedic episode of "Supernatural" is simply going to be a funny, or something deeper. Sometimes the ones that look like they're just going for the giggles, turn out to have a lot more to them, like say "Changing Channels". But straight up from the promo and the preview, "Hunteri Heroici" looks like it's playing for laughs. Which might be fun, because 8.09 looks like exactly the opposite (though for me, that's fun). But who knows. It could tie into the mythology or we could have something go awry and…well, geesh, this is "Supernatural" after all and these boys are angsty and walking on eggshells at the moment so...
 
Anyhoo...here's the official synopsis:
 
CARTOONS AREN'T ALWAYS FUNNY — Castiel tells Sam and Dean that he's decided to become a hunter like them. Sam and Dean aren't sold on the idea but agree to investigate a case Cass found where a man's heart literally burst through his chest. The guys discover there has been more than one odd murder in the small town, and all of them resemble cartoon deaths.
Paul Edwards directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb.
 
Ok...Paul Edwards. According to the link through on the IMDB synopsis for this episode, they say it's Paul J. Edwards a visual effects producer/director. But this is wrong! I was struggling to figure out which Paul Edwards it was, as there's a stack of them, so I tweeted "Supernatural" E.P. Jim Michaels and he got back to me and told me it was the Paul Edwards who's directed a bunch of Once Upon A Time episodes. So I looked him up and he's Paul A. Edwards on IMDB. He directed OUAT as well as Alcatraz, a bunch of Lost episodes, Fringe, Battlestar Gallatica, Heroes and a whole lot more. A very seasoned director and a very seasoned genre director. He's a "Supernatural" rookie so that's 2 rookie directors in a row. Great to be adding to the directorial roster.
 
You may also notice the writer of this episode, Andrew Dabb, is missing something. Daniel Loflin! These guys are a writing team. So it's interesting that Dabb has written this one on his own. It'll be very fascinating to see what it's like with just one of them manning the, I was going to say typewriter then I realised it's not 1982!
 
So Cass wants to be a hunter. I guess he got a fair bit of experience in Purgatory and hanging out with the Winchesters for ages and all that and lord knows he's powerful enough, remember how he wiped out all the Jefferson Starships in that diner? (Jefferson Starships…still makes me laugh every time). But…Cass…a hunter? Why do I think this isn't going to go to plan?
 
So let's look at the promo…
 
Ermm. Looney Tunes. Can anyone say Warner Bros? (Who of course are one of the producers of and the distributor of "Supernatural"). We've had "Rascally rabbit" and now a full-on Looney Tunesesque episode. Or maybe it's more in the vein of Who Framed Roger Rabbit with giant anvils and the like?
 
I must say, I laughed A LOT at the frying pan in Dean's face. Jensen pulls the best faces (which is amazing with all the pretty going on there) and I giggled at the "Bang" coming out of the gun…but yeah…I don't know what else to say here. It does look nice and gory and that always works for me.
 
The preview extends the "You were being bad everything" scene, which is such a beautifully delivered line and is followed up by one of my favourite Dean lines for ages… "She's the best wife ever." I can't even tell you how much I laughed and how many times I replayed that! Also, is Cass putting on a NY accent or something? Which is pretty funny - I guess he does dig TV, doing the whole bad cop routine, hitting the table. Now he really looks like Columbo! I also love how Dean says to Cass, "Listen to Sam" because yeah, Sam is amazing with the subtle and empathetic interrogation. He always gets the goods. Listen and learn Castiel!
 
I admit, I like this scene; it's pretty neat and made me grin. Everyone's surprised look when the wife says she knows about the mistress. Gold. But, I'm not usually a big fan of the light and comedic episodes - well, that's absolutely untrue - I do like them, but I tend to like the heavier, dramatic ones more. You won't find any of the outright comedies in my top 5, or probably my top 10, not even "The French Mistake", which is a pure joy, well maybe "The French Mistake". Nah probably not. Sorry, just worked that through in front of you all!
 
One thing that the promos don't show which the promo pics do, is that this episode has an epically good guest star. Mike Farrell of B.J. Hunnicutt from M.A.S.H. fame! You can check out the pictures here.
 
OMG! So, while I've been writing this, I've been watching "A Little Slice of Kevin". In Australia they play the episodes one week behind the States (so don't ask me how I see it before then and I won't have to tell you any lies…ixnay on the ownloadday)…anyway…they JUST played a promo for "Hunteri Heroici" and it had different bits in it! Like cartoon-land bits. Like a couple of the guys in cartoon-land bits. Oooooo! And that beating heart from the synopsis looks pretty funny and I'm not saying anything else...except, that's all folks!
 
So are you looking forward to this one? Do you dig the funny episodes? Or like me, are you all about the serious stuff? (P.S. The Aussie promo made me kinda excited)!
 
Let me know your thoughts. And don't forget, for spoilers on upcoming episodes visit our spoiler page.
 
See you soon in reviewland (I missed you guys)!
-sweetondean




 

 

Comments  

st50
# st50 2012-11-26 14:29
I love the comedic episodes. Some of them have been pure genius.
But I also love the really dramatic ones.... Give me brother angst and tears - and fights, so long as they make up quickly!

I'm looking forward to this episode mainly because of Mike Farrell, though. I've adored him since M*A*S*H*.

Hopefully this episode is fun, but also has some meat to it... and gives us more insight. I don't want all these various plot points dropped for another week. Especially since we all expect next week to be a real stressful one.

... and Tshirts... gotta have Tshirts. (Sorry :oops: couldn't resist throwing that in)
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-26 14:32
Quote:
Hopefully this episode is fun, but also has some meat to it... and gives us more insight. I don't want all these various plot points dropped for another week. Especially since we all expect next week to be a real stressful one.

... and Tshirts... gotta have Tshirts. (Sorry :oops: couldn't resist throwing that in)
Ditto to both these points!
st50
# st50 2012-11-26 14:35
I do find it somewhat troubling that we're getting so many new directors - as well as first time ever directors (Kevin P and Serge are directing now, I hear...) Hopefully they can all keep up the quality!
On the other hand, it's exciting for them!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-26 14:39
I think this show is such a well a oiled machine that no-one would let anyone fail and there'd always be someone on hand to point them in the right direction if they were going askew. It's good to get new creative eyeballs over the show I think and I love that they're giving opportunities to long stand crew members to take the helm!
st50
# st50 2012-11-26 14:42
:-) I look forward to cheering their directorial debuts.... Just a little nervously.
This show has SUCH a great eye for the details, visually, etc.... And the different directors and writers hands are so evident. They can be fantastic (*cough* BEE and EDLUND *cough*), or not so..... (leaving blank and running)

Running back to Tshirt thoughts now.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-26 14:53
Yeah, there's been one or two freshmen who haven't got it, but for the most part, I think the directing is particularly good on this show!

Now, what was that about t-shirts?
Sylvie
# Sylvie 2012-11-26 15:05
Oh yeah, to say I'm excited would be an understatement! I love the comedic episodes, but the angsty ones are always the best. So we'll get the laughs this week and the tears the next. That's just fine with me. Only thing, I won't be able to watch this episode until Thursday, I'm seeing Leonard Cohen on Wednesday night. Leonard, dude, I love you to bits, but hey, I'm missing SPN for you! :D
Ginger
# Ginger 2012-11-26 22:56
I'm not really looking forward to this one, althouigh I hate to have to skip any week w/o SPN. I hope this isn't a throw-away, purely comedic episode. The preview made it look downright slap-stick, which I don't like at all. I want to get back to the mytharc, and I don't think the pacing has been all that good this season. Well, let's say I expected it to be better under Carver than the past few years, and I'm not finding that it is.

I do like Mike Farrell, though.

I'm still unhappy that we've lost Phil Scriggia to Revolution. He was one of our top directors, and I always liked his work. EK needs to quit robbing our show.

Anyway, I hope it is something more than just silly, as I much prefer drama.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-27 00:23
This might be a bit spoilery Ginger but I saw the TVOvermind interview clip with Misha who described this one as a bit like The French Mistake in that it's not just comedic but has some link to the mythology...not sure what or what that means!
Hades
# Hades 2012-11-28 08:00
there are Purgatory flashbacks in this one and I'm not entirely sure but there may be Sam flashbacks too.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-28 15:37
Oh really? Thanks Hades, that's very exciting!
PENNY JAIME
# PENNY JAIME 2012-11-27 00:15
I love them all; but I will admit the drama gets me. To be honest, I miss the tears! Does that make me a little twisted?
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-28 02:31
Quote:
I love them all; but I will admit the drama gets me. To be honest, I miss the tears! Does that make me a little twisted?
Uhm nope. Well, or we both are ^^

I was just thinking last night, it would be great to have tears again. And some extensive use of artificial blood.
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 08:11
Quote:
Quote:
I love them all; but I will admit the drama gets me. To be honest, I miss the tears! Does that make me a little twisted?
Uhm nope. Well, or we both are ^^

I was just thinking last night, it would be great to have tears again. And some extensive use of artificial blood.
From the "splat" promo photo, I think we'll be getting some of that artificial blood this time.... Perhaps too artificial. :P
But yes! I could go with some real tears! Looking forward to the episode (surely it's coming) when these 2 really get the issues out in the open. That one will be a heartbreaker!! :cry:

In the meantime, I'll be watching with a good stiff drink.
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-28 09:13
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I love them all; but I will admit the drama gets me. To be honest, I miss the tears! Does that make me a little twisted?
Uhm nope. Well, or we both are ^^

I was just thinking last night, it would be great to have tears again. And some extensive use of artificial blood.
From the "splat" promo photo, I think we'll be getting some of that artificial blood this time.... Perhaps too artificial. :P
But yes! I could go with some real tears! Looking forward to the episode (surely it's coming) when these 2 really get the issues out in the open. That one will be a heartbreaker!! :cry:

In the meantime, I'll be watching with a good stiff drink.
8.13?

And artificial blood is only truly good on skin :)

Edited: Love HTML -.-
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 11:12
Quote:

8.13?
We can hope.... :-)

Quote:
And artificial blood is only truly good on skin :)
Too true.
Oh, our poor,poor boys. We are a sick lot, aren't we? Never happy unless our boys are hurt or in tears. :cry: :-* ... Or in Tshirts (or less). :oops:
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-28 11:29
Quote:
Quote:

8.13?
We can hope.... :-)

Quote:
And artificial blood is only truly good on skin :)
Too true.
Oh, our poor,poor boys. We are a sick lot, aren't we? Never happy unless our boys are hurt or in tears. :cry: :-* ... Or in Tshirts (or less). :oops:
well.... yes.
But hey....there are people who love watching golf. So, no feeling guilty here.

On the other hand...

Oh erm... well..
*raises hand* LARPer
*cough*
EVERYTHING is better with artificial blood.
I tell you... just about everything.
At least I have a good excuse to be weird :lol:
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 11:32
You're a LARPer, Fluffy?
That's cool. I've never met anyone who actually does that.... What do you LARP?
(sorry, off topic, sweetondean)
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-28 11:54
Quote:
You're a LARPer, Fluffy?
That's cool. I've never met anyone who actually does that.... What do you LARP?
(sorry, off topic, sweetondean)
Fantasy/medieval.
Never really liked the rest.
And yes, I'm totally scared of that LARP episode :-?
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-28 15:33
Quote:
Quote:

8.13?
Oh, our poor,poor boys. We are a sick lot, aren't we? Never happy unless our boys are hurt or in tears. :cry: :-* ... Or in Tshirts (or less). :oops:
Yes! Apparently 8.13 has a good bro convo... so fingers crossed for an epically heartbreaking, wracking sobs and ouch my heart I love the brothers soooo much moment.

We really do have problems don't we!

And I agree, there's no reason this conversation couldn't happen with Sam just getting out of bed in t-shirt and sweat pants and bare feet, while Dean just comes out of the shower in t-shirt and towel all damp and rumpled.... Sorrrrry (but you started it! :lol: :P )

But first...the looney tunes episode! Enjoy it tonight everyone!

;-)
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 15:49
[


And I agree, there's no reason this conversation couldn't happen with Sam just getting out of bed in t-shirt and sweat pants and bare feet, while Dean just comes out of the shower in t-shirt and towel all damp and rumpled.... Sorrrrry (but you started it! :lol: :P )



Did I? Soooorrrrryyy. (Not Sorry :oops: )

I'll see your sweatpants/bare feet, and raise you two towels/ no tshirts.
(Na, that'd probably get the Wincest group started. Don't go there!)
PaintedWolf
# PaintedWolf 2012-11-29 08:17
Just wanted to say...count me in on wanting to see tears and angst and that stuff where they break our hearts into little pieces and we still love them.
And yes, I agree, there's no reason a conversation like that can't be had in minimal layers of clothing!
st50
# st50 2012-11-29 08:28
Hey PaintedWolf!
Welcome to the party!
Now we've got one great boozy party going on somewhere (I forget which article we set that one up on), and another with Winchester tears and "minimal layers of clothing"!
Hey, if we combined the two, I bet we could all get arrested!
:oops:
PaintedWolf
# PaintedWolf 2012-11-29 08:43
That's sounds quite possible, especially with the amount of stiff drinks and chocolate that we would need to consume.
Although, towels is still a little more than the conversation about Sam and Dean in naught but fig leaves a couple months ago.
Oh and I'll bring the Kleenex!
st50
# st50 2012-11-29 09:37
I remember the fig leaves! (How could I have forgotten? :o )

I've just converted my piggy bank to a "bail money savings account". Let's party!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-28 15:42
Quote:
I love them all; but I will admit the drama gets me. To be honest, I miss the tears! Does that make me a little twisted?
Ahhh nup! I love the hurty ones with tears...theirs and mine! :sigh:
shamangrrl
# shamangrrl 2012-11-27 20:58
Gotta agree with Ginger on this one. The pacing of episodes this season has been abysmal, and frankly, I haven't found the "funny" episodes to be amusing in years. I'm not looking forward to this one, and the clips aren't helping. I'm actually thinking I won't be watching this one live. Next week is another story, however.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-27 21:06
I'm considering waiting until I hear feedback on the episode. The "funny" episodes are hit and miss to me and I have reached the point where I want to see Sam's story, not how Cas becomes a hunter. Also Dabb and Laughlin are some of my least favorite writers, so I'm not feeling hopeful about this. I hope that some part of Sam's story gets explored, but I'm less than optimistic.
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-28 02:32
Quote:
I'm considering waiting until I hear feedback on the episode. The "funny" episodes are hit and miss to me and I have reached the point where I want to see Sam's story, not how Cas becomes a hunter. Also Dabb and Laughlin are some of my least favorite writers, so I'm not feeling hopeful about this. I hope that some part of Sam's story gets explored, but I'm less than optimistic.
I´m cautiously optimistic.
I get the feeling, they are trying to bring Sam and Cas closer together. And with both of them alone in Loony world, there might be a good chance.
On the other hand... Loflin... -.-
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-28 03:24
Quote:

On the other hand... Loflin... -.-
Ahh but this one is just Andrew Dabb....Daniel Loflin is not listed as a writer...so, might be a different ball of wax. Maybe Loflin's been holding Dabb back! :lol:

You know, out of, geeze how many eps are we up to now? 157, 158? I can count on one hand the episodes that make me go...erm..... Even then, when I watch them again, they often have something in them I missed on first viewing.

How I see it, is for me, the show deserves the benefit of the doubt. It's done good, it's worked hard, it's delivered far more often than not and for that reason, I will always give it the benefit of the doubt. Can't help it!
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-28 03:42
Quote:
Quote:

On the other hand... Loflin... -.-
Ahh but this one is just Andrew Dabb....Daniel Loflin is not listed as a writer...so, might be a different ball of wax. Maybe Loflin's been holding Dabb back! :lol:

You know, out of, geeze how many eps are we up to now? 157, 158? I can count on one hand the episodes that make me go...erm..... Even then, when I watch them again, they often have something in them I missed on first viewing.

How I see it, is for me, the show deserves the benefit of the doubt. It's done good, it's worked hard, it's delivered far more often than not and for that reason, I will always give it the benefit of the doubt.
Sorry, Loflin is next week's.
I´m sleep deprived :sigh:

Yes... there ARE some things that are generally found in their episodes that sometimes make them less than endearing to me. Cheap humor, for example.

But we´ll wait and see....

I will only get to watch the episode tomorrow (my time tomorrow). By the time it runs, I´m almost getting up to go to work again.
So I will have the forwarning of reviews :)

But anyways! It´s a new Supernatural episode!
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-28 03:48
Quote:
But anyways! It´s a new Supernatural episode!
YAY! :D
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 08:23
Quote:

I can count on one hand the episodes that make me go...erm..... Even then, when I watch them again, they often have something in them I missed on first viewing.
Exactly! I've re-watched them all. Episodes - and even full seasons - that I wasn't really keen on have grown on me on repeat viewing. There are some great things to be found in almost every episode once I get over the initial frustration/dis appointment in the flaws... Small gestures, glances, detail in sets....so many gems to unearth.

- with the exception of Bitten - Just can't bring myself to watch it again. Once was more than enough. (I don't think there was even a good Tshirt scene in that one, was there? I'd watch even Bitten for a good Tshirt scene..... Sorry, going shallow again. :oops: )
ryder21
# ryder21 2012-11-28 22:44
Don't ever, ever apologise for the 'shallow' st50! :o
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 22:47
Quote:
Don't ever, ever apologise for the 'shallow' st50! :o
You are my new best friend, ryder21, for giving me permission to be shallow (along with sweetondean, since it's her article and she sometimes joins me there). LOL!!
CyanaT
# CyanaT 2012-11-28 23:03
Quote:
I'm considering waiting until I hear feedback on the episode. The "funny" episodes are hit and miss to me and I have reached the point where I want to see Sam's story, not how Cas becomes a hunter. Also Dabb and Laughlin are some of my least favorite writers, so I'm not feeling hopeful about this. I hope that some part of Sam's story gets explored, but I'm less than optimistic.
HH was actually better than I expected and we got several "intriguing" Sam flashbacks and more tidbits suggesting that maybe Sam's life with Amelia is part dream/part real. There were good Dean scenes with Cas, too, as well as Naomi time-outing Cas again.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-28 23:15
Thanks, I did actually watch IRT after all. Unfortunately for me Looney Tune humor has never been my thing, so I was at a disadvantage from the get go. I hope they are going for Amelia wasn't real but a method of coping, but I'm not yet convinced.

The scenes between Dean and Cas were nice, but since I want scenes between Dean and Sam, they were hurtful. Dean can forgive Cas, but not even try to find out what Sam went through.

I'm just not feeling this season. I hope that after midseason break I will finally feel it.
Sharon
# Sharon 2012-11-28 04:03
I dont mind the funny ones it entirely depends on who wrote it and wether it actually works. This one could be good or it might go splat but it certainly is a interesting premise.

I dont give the show the benefit of the doubt not where Sam is concerned at least I have done all that in the past didnt get me anywhere.
CyanaT
# CyanaT 2012-11-28 23:14
Quote:
I dont mind the funny ones it entirely depends on who wrote it and wether it actually works. This one could be good or it might go splat but it certainly is a interesting premise.

I dont give the show the benefit of the doubt not where Sam is concerned at least I have done all that in the past didnt get me anywhere.
[Well after one watch I didn't find it as funny as TFM or CC but there were several decent Sam/Amelia FBs which suggest to me that as least part of Sam's memories are suspect but it might be the result of the trauma of losing Dean rather than any manipulation ... but still unexplained is the figure outside of Sam & Amelia's house.
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 23:17
Agreed Cyana T...
And I thought there was a pretty darn good hint about the figure, but I'll leave that discussion to the reviews, since this article is "spoiler-lite"
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 17:54
Has anybody seen the CHCH promo for this episode? I can't believe it's not out there yet, somewhere, and they're usually the best, imo.
sweetondean
# sweetondean 2012-11-28 18:43
Nope I couldn't find it! It's not on YouTube. I was also trying to find a copy of the Aussie Channel 11 promos, because that was pretty good. But no luck!
st50
# st50 2012-11-28 22:29
Well darn. Thanks for looking.

And btw - GREAT EPISODE!!!!! For those of you waiting to hear whether to watch - WATCH!
Aside from the cartoony stuff, which they handled really well, it's got a LOT that fits into the overall story!
Karen
# Karen 2012-11-28 23:17
Well put me down for one who loved this episode from start to finish.
I enjoyed all the Looney Tune tributes, the sillyness, the slapstick and the sound effects.
I loved seeing more of Sam's story. I guess now we know why Sam left Amelia that night.
I loved watching Castiel with his Columbo impersonation, his failure to grasp mortal references and his conversation with Dean.
I enjoyed seeing Mike Farrell again...man he has aged since I last saw him...what 29 years ago?? YIKES!
I'm sure there is lots more I will think of later, but right now I have to get to bed...4:30am comes very early.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-28 23:26
I didn't dislike the episode. In fact, excluding Sam's lame FBs, this was the most enjoyable episode I've watched all season.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I have found ALL of Sam's FBs to be . . . . ill-timed or misplaced. They just seem to come out of nowhere and don't really fit w/the story. None of the FBs have made sense to me. An ice cube falls to the floor, Sam has an Amelia FB. A car backfires, Sam has an Amelia FB. Sam's brushing his teeth, which triggers an Amelia FB. Huh? These FBs just don't make much sense to me. They don't seem to flow w/the rest of the story or have much meaning.

Were we supposed to learn something from Sam's FBs tonight? If so, what was it? That bitchy Amelia has an equally bitchy dad? That Sam and Amelia are both messed up people? That Sam was running away from his life and living in a fantasy world w/the bitchy Amelia? Didn't we learn all this a few episodes back.

I thought Sam's FBs broke up the momentum of the episode and really served no purpose. Honestly, unless something supernatural was going on w/Sam during his time w/Amelia, I'm not really interested in that part of his life. I don't care about her dad. I don't care about her miraculously alive husband. I don't care about her. I don't care about Sam's life w/her or his feelings for her.

My sister and I moaned and rolled our eyes each time Sam gazed off into the distance b/c we knew another pointless FB was coming! And for the record, we both LOVE Sam.

And IF (and that's a big IF) Carver is planning some huge twist w/Sam's story (i.e., Angel manipulation or just a dream Sam had while in the psych ward or something), then he needs to get to it already b/c I'm . . . as Willow from BTVS would say, "Bored now."

I'm utterly bored w/Sam's boring life w/Amelia. I actually find his time w/her to be horribly boring and immaterial to the show. If a twist is coming, they need to get to it.

JMO.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-28 23:53
I pretty much totally agree. I LOVE SAM as well and his story has been badly told and the timing on it is just horrible, IMHO. They have wasted 1/3 of the season pussyfooting around his story, giving us nothing interesting, hinting there may be more, but always giving us insight on anyone but Sam. I think there should be a twist, but honestly I don't expect it.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 00:06
The hints aren't even that good, Percy! Honestly, I'm finding the story pretty straightforward . If I didn't frequent the messageboards, I'm not even sure I would think there was a "potential" twist to Sam's story. My sister doesn't. She just thinks the writing for him is bad and OOC this year. Now, there are things that are definitely off to me, but I don't know if I should attribute that to clever storytelling or bad storytelling.

The biggest example would be Sam not looking for Dean. That makes no sense at all and hasn't been properly explained. Putting that aside, the coloring is always off in Sam's FBs. Now, is that supposed to signify that the FBs themselves aren't real, or is it just Carver's way of distinguishing Sam's cloudy, colorful FBs from Dean's more gritty, blackish ones? I don't know.

I'm not sure if you watched HH, but tonight a man remarked to Sam that the elderly patient was living a life in his own mind, which, of course, triggered an Amelia FB. Okay. . . . so am I to assume Sam made up Amelia and a life w/her or am I to assume Sam is remembering his time w/Amelia more fondly than it was in reality? I don't know. Oh, and Sam remarked that Amelia's bitchy dad opened their beers just like Dean did . . . is that supposed to mean something? Was it Sam just making a comment or am I supposed to be questioning whether any of this stuff w/Amelia happened to Sam?

I don't know, and frankly, I don't care all that much. I'm over this Sam mystery. I was over it from the very start. Haha! This story - whatever it is - is simply not being told in a very intriguing way, IMO. It's just not capturing my interest like SS did in the first part of S6. We knew from EOMS that something was very wrong w/Sam. Here, while Sam's decision to not search for Dean makes no sense, there are no other obvious hints that something is up w/Sam. I have no idea if this characterizatio n of Sam is off b/c of Carver's interpretation of the character or b/c of a planned storyarc. It's just not clear to me.

I don't know what I'm supposed to think about Sam's story, but I wish we'd just FF to the denouement and move on w/the rest of the season.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-29 00:36
I'm very unhappy with Sam's story. I'll be heading to bed, but when I get back to it, I'll probably move this to the Sam Speculation thread.

I am coming around to Amelia, just as it looks like she is all a dream. I did like the idea of 2 broken people who are finding some happiness in a sad world. I wish Amelia was more fleshed out an maybe even real, but the whole Sam story has been handled in such a mishmash, that I'm not connecting at all.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 00:59
I hear ya . . . if Carver's version of Sam is a cowardly loser who seemingly can't function by himself then . . . I'm just done. They have yet to show us why Sam was suddenly clueless about hunting, why he was in such distress when he just found himself in this exact same situation a couple of years ago, etc. It's ridiculous!

I refuse to accept it being in Sam's character to abandon Dean when Dean's in trouble. That's no Sam I know.

Sam is much stronger than this. We've seen it. I can buy Sam reaching a breaking point, but I need a story to do so. Dean disappearing is just not enough for this fan. I'm wholly unsatisfied.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-29 04:30
I like Amelia but i am not invested in the character as i have not seen her in present...and if her husband is alive I don't want Sam to be a home wrecker in future also... I was waiting to see Amelia in present like 2 to three episodes back.Benny i saw but Amelia still a no.I correlate story telling for Benny with that for Dean's and Amelia with Sam's.So its not surprising that we will see Amelia after hellatus and Benny will be shown through out the season.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 08:06
But do we really need to see Amelia in the present? The whole "Amelia" part of Sam's storyline is doing absolutely nothing for me. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be learning from it, and I don't care for Amelia.

Just what is this storyline about? Why do we see so much of it? If there's no supernatural angle to it or some big twist, then it's really just immaterial IMO. I felt the same way about Lisa/Ben last year. I have no problem with romance but it just doesn't fit, IMO, on this show.
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-29 08:12
Quote:
But do we really need to see Amelia in the present? The whole "Amelia" part of Sam's storyline is doing absolutely nothing for me. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be learning from it, and I don't care for Amelia.

Just what is this storyline about? Why do we see so much of it? If there's no supernatural angle to it or some big twist, then it's really just immaterial IMO. I felt the same way about Lisa/Ben last year. I have no problem with romance but it just doesn't fit, IMO, on this show.
Amelia is a way to explain Sam´s state of mind.
I don´t really see it as a romance. It´s essentially as told.
Two broken people holding on to each other, trying to get ground under their feet again, because they have lost a all footing.

Now, how much of it is REAL, is a wholly different story.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 14:34
Then it's failing for me. Haha!

How is Amelia explaining Sam's state of mind? I'm lost. Amelia was rude and bitchy when we met her, and then she said she lost her husband and didn't want pity from the townsfolk. I'm not sure how this relates to Sam. And in this most recent FB, she didn't do much of anything.

And are they broken? I don't know. Sam doesn't come off as "broken" or "messed up" in these FBs. Sam doesn't even come off as "lost" or "without purpose" to me.

I don't know. I don't get the whole Amelia angle.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-29 08:38
Quote:
But do we really need to see Amelia in the present?
I need to see her in present because i want to be invested in her as Sam is too and that is possible only if I see or rather show shows them interacting and not just tell us through FBs that happen at the drop off a hat..I want to see her through the show and through Sam's Thoughts...They could have shown benny only through FB's but they did not...because of that i know more about Benny at this point and also about their equation now for sure but not about Amelia as a character and i would simply like to know more about the character which the show gave Sam to interact and know why that character liked Sam,what the character sees in Sam....
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 14:37
I understand. I guess if she's going to be around for awhile, we may as well learn more about her. I just wish I was interested in her or her relationship w/Sam. Maybe if the writing were better . . . .
Mel
# Mel 2012-11-29 14:20
I don't think there's any twist other than the news Amelia got about her husband being alive. (Which BTW I totally called -- ask my Hubs -- after the last episode and Jared saying there was a good reason Sam left her)

I think its just what it appears. I hope I'm wrong and Show surprises me with something. But mostly I just hope that Amelia goes away with her live husband and we never, ever see or hear from her again. She can live next door to Lisa & Ben.

Hopefully Sam did something interesting before he hit that dog that explains him better, but I'm not really holding out much hope for that. I'll be happy if he gets his head back in the game and quits drifting off into these reveries that stall the forward momentum.

In spite of the fact that I don't like the storyline and it was annoying to stop the main narrative for the flashbacks -- -- I liked the scenes with Sam and Amelia's father. On a different show I would have downright loved them.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 14:44
Quote:
I don't think there's any twist other than the news Amelia got about her husband being alive. (Which BTW I totally called -- ask my Hubs -- after the last episode and Jared saying there was a good reason Sam left her)
Well, that's depressing but not surprising. I never expected some interesting, big twist. It was a faint hope for something more though since I find this story so thoroughly unsatisfying. If Sam leaves upon Don's return, I will have to ask what was the point of Amelia? It's not like we're even seeing her bring Sam back from the depths of despair or anything. It's just a really boring relationship. LOL!

Quote:
But mostly I just hope that Amelia goes away with her live husband and we never, ever see or hear from her again. She can live next door to Lisa & Ben.


LOL! I couldn't agree more w/you! Don and Amelia can live right next door to Lisa/Ben. Perfect!

Quote:
Hopefully Sam did something interesting before he hit that dog that explains him better, but I'm not really holding out much hope for that. I'll be happy if he gets his head back in the game and quits drifting off into these reveries that stall the forward momentum.
Again, LOL! You're on a roll! I, of course, agree w/your every word. I would like to think Sam did something more interesting or that something more interesting happened to him, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Oh well.
Melanie
# Melanie 2012-12-01 01:49
Thanks!

I had an even more depressing thought -- that the shadowy figure is merely Amelia's husband arriving as Sam is leaving. No mystery - nothing to do with the supernatural at all.

I really, really hope that I am wrong.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-11-29 00:31
What an interesting, funny, tug-on-your-hea rtstrings-a-bit episode! I am absolutely loving the free-flowing creativity of this season. :)

I find the Castiel storyline and the mystery of what is going on in heaven to be very intriguing - I want to know what is going on, dang it! :P And I like that we finally, finally have "old Cas" back. Save for the massive guilt, of course. And I appreciate the fact that he will not become the Winchester Bros. 3rd wheel, because that would not be satisfying. Cas is good in large, infrequent doses. :P

I appreciated the "more" we got on Sam tonight. I liked the flashbacks - it was very interesting to watch Sam interact with Amelia's father. And how heartbreaking it was when she received that phone call, and he thought it was over! They were together in the premiere though, so I assume Amelia chose Sam over Don? I guess we'll have to see. Still lots of questions left to be answered.

I still empathize with Sam's position, his decisions, his motivations, etc., and find them to be in-character. This is Sam stripped away. No false bravado a-la demon blood. No special abilities. No connections to Lucifer. Soul very much intact. And "that look" of a man whose lived through many battles, watching everyone he ever cared about get killed until he had no one left, and he finally fled. This Sam is vulnerable. This is the Sam I know, love, and feel like I understand. He isn't the same man Dean is; he didn't make the same decision Dean would have in the same circumstance - but when he tried to become like his brother in the past, he nearly destroyed himself. This is Sam true to himself. And I find myself falling in love with his character again, after feeling disconnected from him for so many seasons.

Each one of these men - Dean, Sam, and Cas - are flawed and vulnerable in their own ways. Pricked with guilt, gutted by loss, scarred by past mistakes, afflicted with various flaws - and all these little bits and nuances have been coming out this season. I love it.
st50
# st50 2012-11-29 00:38
Quote:
This Sam is vulnerable. This is the Sam I know, love, and feel like I understand. He isn't the same man Dean is; he didn't make the same decision Dean would have in the same circumstance - but when he tried to become like his brother in the past, he nearly destroyed himself. This is Sam true to himself. And I find myself falling in love with his character again, after feeling disconnected from him for so many seasons.
Well put Bamboo24. I feel like, tonight, I've almost found Sam again. At least, I've seen more glimpses of him in this episode than I've seen in a very long time.
Gives me much hope.... But DAMN, now we're going to have angst and hellatus. :cry:
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-11-29 00:45
Can someone share with me the dates of the next episodes so I am prepared for this *hellatus*? Thanks. :)
st50
# st50 2012-11-29 00:48
Next week is 8.09... then nothing until the first week in January. :cry:
Darya
# Darya 2012-11-29 14:33
How many episodes ARE there? I heard someone say 24....is that official news or just speculation?
Leah
# Leah 2012-11-29 03:02
st50 and Bamboo24- couldn't agree with you more, I loved Sam (really never stopped) this episode. He came across so sweet and damaged in the FB's. His admission that he ran made it apparent that he had some kind of breakdown, and that it troubled him. I'm still not convinced that the whole Amelia thing isn't just in his head. I can't see how anyone could see this character as a cowardly loser, my heart goes out to him.
st50
# st50 2012-11-29 09:39
Quote:
I can't see how anyone could see this character as a cowardly loser, my heart goes out to him.
Yup. He's still a hero in my book. Just currently a little broken, and in need of saving himself .... If Amelia can't do it, he'd better start talking to Dean!
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-29 09:50
Quote:
Quote:
I can't see how anyone could see this character as a cowardly loser, my heart goes out to him.
Yup. He's still a hero in my book. Just currently a little broken, and in need of saving himself .... If Amelia can't do it, he'd better start talking to Dean!
I am actually a Dean girl all the way.
Well, was....

I mean, alright, I liked Sam, I rooted for him.
I wanted him to be ok.
But right now?

Oh Goooooooooooooooooood!
Sammmmmyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
Leah
# Leah 2012-11-29 13:47
I think that will come in time. I really believe that is what they are building up to. It is happening too slowly for some fans I realize, but call me a masochist, I am kind of enjoying the journey.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 11:01
Leah, it really all depends on if one believes this story is doing justice to Sam and his characterizatio n. If you feel this story is not hurting him and is consistent w/his characterizatio n, then it will work for you.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't feel this story is doing justice to Sam. In fact, I feel this story hurts Sam, esp. in the way it's being told.

Even if I take the story at face value and believe Sam just ran, I still have problems with the overall storytelling. When S7 ended, I saw a Sam that was desperate to find his brother. I saw a Sam demanding that Crowley tell him what happened to Dean. It is unclear how Sam went from demanding that Crowley tell him what happened to Dean to a Sam that thought Dean died. I mean. . . . what happened? In a span of seconds, Sam suddenly decided Dean was dead. It doesn't flow, and I cannot ignore or disregard what I saw at the end of S7.

What the show seems to have grasped for other characters but has yet to fully grasp for Sam is that the audience needs to SEE the devastation or the emotion for the story to work. Almost everyone knows and understands why Dean made the CRD for Sam. Why? Because they showed us his immediate reaction. They showed us how utterly devastated Dean was by Sam's untimely death and his inability to "save" him. We saw how Dean didn't care about the world anymore or Bobby or anything b/c Sam was dead. We saw it. We could feel his emotion.

So far, we haven't been given a glimpse of Sam's devastation. If I'm to believe that he thought Dean was dead, and that he was utterly lost and devastated, then show it to me! Show me the devastation. Show me the loss. Having Sam speak about it in very vague terms is not helpful. It doesn't fully demonstrate or reflect his loss.

It also doesn't help to direct Jared to act in a very nonchalant, indifferent way when Dean returns or to have Sam gently hinting that Dean should find someone else to hunt w/him. Dean's "resurrection" appears to have inconvenienced Sam from that great life he was leading w/Amelia, her dad, and her not so dead husband! That certainly didn't help play into this idea that Dean's loss was devastating to Sam.

So, my basic point is I feel we are missing the meat of Sam's story. If Sam ran because he couldn't handle the loss, I need to see it, esp. since it wasn't reflected upon Dean's return. The hugs in MS, 4.01 and LAV reflected the loss Sam felt. They were heartfelt! This one was lackluster and unemotional. We're almost at the mid-season break, and I'm just as clueless about this new Sam as I was in 8.01. That's a problem for me.

So, yes, without a proper story, I can't help but see this Sam that abandons his brother as a coward. Sam has faced many problems in his life. He took on Hell memories for Dean. It's hard to think he broke b/c Dean disappeared, esp. since there's no story being told to go along w/that idea.

Now, I will quickly point out that I have a problem w/the storytelling EVEN IF Sam's time w/Amelia was all in his head b/c he suffered a massive breakdown. I don't feel we've gotten enough hints for that story. If that happens, it will just be a huge twist that may feel like it's coming out of nowhere. Maybe, the memories could be a bit more disjointed or "off." What I find most off about them is the coloring, but as I said, earlier, I'm not sure if that was done to distinguish Sam's FBs from Dean's.

Anyway, that's just how I feel. I hope you can now better understand my gripe w/the show and the writing for Sam.
Leah
# Leah 2012-11-29 13:33
Hi lala2, You know it's weird but I do understand many of your concerns, really, and I don't disagree with most of them. I think, however it unravels, that perhaps it could been written in such a way that it didn't alienate some fans so much. Having said, that I am still amazed that we all can watch the same show and get such different reads on how Sam is being portrayed. I just don't see the "cowardly" or "loser" part of his portrayal. I may completely reverse my opinion before the season ends, but as of now I am enjoying the season in it's totality. My perspective is a bit maternal and I steadfastly love the boys, flaws and all. Maybe because of them.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 14:51
Leah, I'm glad you understand.

As far as the cowardly thing is concerned, when Sam uses the words "I ran," I can't help but think "like a coward." I'm not getting the impression that Sam was overcome by depression or that he was overly distraught or that he was on the verge of a breakdown. This story says to me that Dean disappeared, and since Sam didn't know what to do, he just decided to do nothing. He put Dean's disappearance out of his mind and went about his life.

The storytelling is not, IMO, implying anything else. I'm not getting that feeling from the FBs. It's all very "ho hum" to me. I don't feel sad for Sam in the FBs. I don't feel happy for him. I feel absolutely nothing, and I love Jared/Sam.

Whatever these FBs are supposed to be doing for Sam, I'm not getting. It's not resonating w/me. This storyline/angle simply isn't working for me. No aspects of it work - not the writing, not the acting, not the direction, not the set design, not the coloring - none of it works for me.

I love Sam (and Dean) and don't view Sam as a coward, which is why this story is so disappointing to me. I feel like it's destroying Sam as a character.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-29 13:39
I agree with you lala. Waiting to tell Sam's side of the story has been very detrimental to his character. His actions are the ones being criticized on a regular basis by Dean. His flashbacks show us with a woman we have not had the chance to care about and have skirted as far away from what he felt when Dean died that it is almost invisible. It's nice that Amelia's dad talked about not being able to cope, but I want to hear SAM say it. It's nice that Sam can talk to Fred about living in a dream world so that we can guess that Sam felt like that, but we have not been shown that. For all we know Sam is going back to his Psych 101 classes from Stanford. Yes, the cutting from his words to his flashbacks is anvilisious, but it still isn't Sam saying what Sam is feeling. We have heard Dean be derisive and hurt over Sam's actions several times AND we heard the ghost inspired rage he feels toward Sam, but Sam is silent, the way he has been in past season.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-29 13:55
I agree with lala2 and percysowner about how they have dealt with Sam's story reveal
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 14:53
Percy, I remarked elsewhere that Amelia is really just a shallow stereotype. She's the angry widow who is brought out of her shell by the handsome stranger. There's nothing else to her. Unlike Benny, we don't know much about her.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-29 00:41
I know it is my disappointment with this season that is influencing me, but all I saw tonight was Dean, who having survived Purgatory has regained his humanity and is able to comfort Castiel, but isn't even interested in Sam. Castiel, who is strong and brave and willing to face his misdeeds but is being prevented by angelic forces. And Sam the weak, unworthy person who fell apart under far less pressure than Dean or Castiel. Who is a coward and who ran away when Dean needed him. And the coupe de gras is that Dean tells Cas at the end that Cas should be riding shotgun, just in case we've missed the fact that not only is Benny a better brother than Sam, but Cas deserves to be above Sam as well.

I see no redemption or chance that Sam will portrayed in any sympathetic light. I'm glad you enjoyed this episode and found good things for every character. I am simply not connecting.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 01:09
You and I are on the exact same page. Why am I supposed to be excited or happy about a Sam that is a cowardly, pathetic loser who can't function by himself? How is that admirable on this show?

Someone on another board remarked how she understood why Sam fans are upset since Sam's been knocked out of "hero" status. I'm not sure why I should be excited by that, esp. since his motivations haven't even been explored. His conversation w/Amelia's bitchy dad didn't shed any light on Sam and why he "ran" and abandoned Dean. I'm still just as confused as I was 8 episodes ago.

There was nothing, IMO, positive for Sam in this episode. Unless there is a twist to his story, then this episode just cemented his unworthiness. Not only should this guy not be traveling w/Dean as Dean needs someone who would actually have his back in a tight spot, this cowardly, weak Sam shouldn't be hunting either.

I hope there is an explanation for Carver's assassination of this once fine character, but I doubt it.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-11-29 01:29
lala2,

With all due respect, why do you continue to refer to Amelia as "bitchy" and her dad as "bitchy"?

Amelia may have been like that at first glance, but we then learned that she had suffered a great loss, which certainly explained her emotional state. She was grieving, not just acting that way for the hell of it. "Moody" would be a more proper term than "bitchy" - and certainly more charitable. She also hasn't acted that way since, unless you count the occasional sarcasm. Likewise, her father in this episode was simply a man concerned about his daughter, and wary of the strange new man she was dating. I don't find that worthy of being labeled "bitchy" at all. I thought he was just being good dad - a little intimidating, as any dad would be - but he eventually warmed up to Sam.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 08:23
In short, I don't like Amelia. It really doesn't matter to me that she's softened up some; I just don't like her. Her first two meetings w/Sam did nothing to help me like the character. She was very bitchy, IMO, to Sam when she first met him and when she saw him again. To this day, I have no idea why he didn't get the dog and immediately leave her room. Why stay and speak to her? I don't like her. And if she is a "dream" character, I feel bad for Sam for dreaming up a bitchy woman for himself. Not all romance starts off w/people being snappy to each other. I'm not feeling their romance, and I doubt I ever will. It does nothing for me as a viewer except bore me.

Amelia's dad was extremely rude - for no good reason - to Sam. His stank attitude made me understand why Amelia was such a bitch to Sam when she first met him. If he has issues with his 30+ old year (don't know her exact age) daughter moving and dating some guy, take it up with her, not the guy. Amelia's a grown woman who can make her own choices, and Sam did nothing to deserve her father's snarky comments. Plus, I have a major problem with Amelia not pulling her dad aside to confront him on his rude comments to her boyfriend. That's not cool.

I understand that they were all happy in the end. I know that Amelia has "softened." That doesn't change the fact that I don't like or care about Amelia, her dad, or Sam and Amelia's relationship. If it remains in the completely human realm, it will continue to hold very little interest to me. I do not watch Supernatural for romance.

I love romance - even cheesy ones like the Twilight saga! TBD Part 2 was great! That said, I find romance on this particular show to be utterly boring and pointless. That's how I felt about Dean with Lisa and Ben, and that's how I feel about Sam and Amelia.

It's nice that it works for you. It doesn't work for me on any level. Every single Sam FB this year has grinded the show to a halt, IMO. His FBs come out of nowhere and seemingly have no meaning or purpose. Additionally, his relationship w/her is boring. So far, it's just two people who met each other. I don't care. Maybe if she were an alcoholic or bipolar or something, it would be more interesting to me.

Again, everything on the show works for you. That's nice. It doesn't for me. We just have different opinions and expectations for the show. That's all! Yours appear to have been met; mine haven't. Oh well. It is what it is.
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-11-29 10:54
lala2,

I understand things are not working for you and that you are frustrated, and don't like the characters of Amelia and her dad...I guess the repeated use of the derogatory term bothered me. It's much easier to call someone a "bitch" than to try and understand/resp ect their behavior.

It's funny - I HATE romance. :) And I hate the Twilight saga, LOL. But romance on SPN is not usually for romance's sake. As someone else stated - Amelia is there so we can learn more about Sam's state of mind, not just to be his love interest. I think the goal is to humanize him again. Just as Lisa and Ben brought out another facet of Dean's character we weren't aware of, Amelia and her dad bring that out in Sam. Perhaps if you viewed it that way, it would help? Idk.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 11:27
I've always been the kind of person who tries to keep my personal problems out of my daily interactions w/others. If I'm having a bad day, that's not my client's fault or some guy on the street's fault. I just try to treat people nicely and w/respect. People say I'm extremely nice, and that's true for the most part. I'm not a pushover and I have been known to tell someone off, but I'm also not a generally rude or bitchy woman.

Amelia's entire attitude rubbed me the wrong way. Honestly, I also found her reason for leaving her town to be weird. She seemed upset that people had sympathy for her loss. I understand the whole idea of not wanting someone to "pity" you, but to me, there's a difference btw pity and genuine sympathy.

Unlike Benny, they really haven't explored Amelia all that much. She's pretty much a stereotype - angry widow meets man and remembers life can be good. I would have preferred Sam and Amelia bond over their depression due to their mutual losses than what has been shown. For instance, why does Amelia say she and Sam are "messed up?" It's perfectly normal, IMO, to be sad if a loved one "died." I don't know. This story has no point that I can see. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be taking away from it if anything at all.

I guess I already found Sam to be pretty human. He didn't need any humanizing to me. I disagree w/Carver in that Sam got too bogged down in mythology. Sam still has emotions and feelings. He's always been very human. IMO, actually exploring the impact of the crazy stuff that happened to him would have been better and more interesting than Sam being in a relationship.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-29 13:55
Quote:
I guess I already found Sam to be pretty human. He didn't need any humanizing to me. I disagree w/Carver in that Sam got too bogged down in mythology. Sam still has emotions and feelings. He's always been very human. IMO, actually exploring the impact of the crazy stuff that happened to him would have been better and more interesting than Sam being in a relationship.
wholeheartedly agree
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-11-29 01:16
percysowner,

Quote:
Sam the weak, unworthy person who fell apart under far less pressure than Dean or Castiel.
Pain, be it physical or emotional, is relative.

Stress/pressure is also experienced and responded to differently depending on the person. Same with grief.

One can't judge another person's situation and say, "you shouldn't be feeling this." Something that might stress me out to the breaking point, might seem piddly to you. Something that you might grieve over, might not be something I would. Or we might grieve/stress in different manners, for different lengths of time. It's simply not something that can be judged or measured by anyone other than the individual.

That being said, I feel like it is a much easier thing to go through a difficult time when you have people around to support you. Dean was in Purgatory, and it was hard, but he had Benny. He had Cas. Not to diminish the hardship he experienced by any stretch. But Sam? Sam had no one. No family. No real friends. No one he could trust. And he had just come out of his own hell after being healed from the Lucifer hallucinations. The Job killed off everyone he ever cared about, and when the only one who was left disappeared, he panicked. He lost it. He broke. He fled.

And then he hit a dog, met Amelia, and found something to hang onto that could make him smile again.

If NOTHING else, this storyline makes Sam human again. Relate-able, you know? Vulnerable. But no less heroic.

Quote:
And the coupe de gras is that Dean tells Cas at the end that Cas should be riding shotgun, just in case we've missed the fact that not only is Benny a better brother than Sam, but Cas deserves to be above Sam as well.
I really don't think that is how the comment was intended. And while Dean did say as much about Benny, I don't see how - objectively - knowing what we know about what kind of person/brother Sam is, one could believe that Cas or Benny are actually somehow more worthy than Sam.

But I even feel silly writing such a thing, as if this is some kind of playground-game of "whose the best friend." It's immature of Dean to have made it such.

As for "redemption" - perhaps the question should be: can I forgive these characters for their perceived flaws and past mistakes?

Can I forgive Dean for his flawed moments? For his often aggressive, womanizing, dark and torture-loving moments; for his brashness, callousness, guilt complex, narcissism, hypocritical-ne ss, and occasional arrogance?

Can I forgive Sam for still wanting a normal life, for hating hunting, for his vulnerabilities , his self-destructiv e tendencies, his good intentions gone wrong; for his need to feel in control, his rationalization , and his ferocious independent streak?

Can I forgive Sam for running and giving it all up when his brother disappeared?

I find that my answer, in light of the circumstances and all I know of this character, is yes, without question.

I do sympathize with your lack of connection with this season. I still hope it gets better for you, or that you can find redeeming qualities despite your dissatisfaction s.
RMF
# RMF 2012-11-29 02:05
Quote:
I really don't think that is how the comment was intended. And while Dean did say as much about Benny, I don't see how - objectively - knowing what we know about what kind of person/brother Sam is, one could believe that Cas or Benny are actually somehow more worthy than Sam.
No, the comment was intended to validate Cas' stab at becoming a hunter. But it is the writer's very unconsciousness of how it invalidated Sam's role in the partnership to casually offer up "shotgun" and all it entails to another character that suggests that they really give Sam very little thought.
Leah
# Leah 2012-11-29 03:15
I don't really understand this as a great part of the episode was devoted to Sam and his FB's (be they real or imagined). I agree that the comment was meant to give Cas a pat on the back for his efforts and with a bit of a wink because he really didn't do all that well. I don't think it was a lack of thought for Sam or a slap in the face. It was a little cute throw away moment IMO. Not meant to devalue him in any way.
aelaine
# aelaine 2012-11-29 05:27
Yes! The human side, because yes, they are just human up against the supernatural. They have both been put through the ringer supernaturally since, forever, esp. Sam and he is a gentle soul at heart. I forgive whatever flaws or missteps that I perceive, of both of them because in the end they Are human and humans make mistakes, and sometimes you can only be strong for so long before you break. I see nothing wrong in trying to preserve your sanity anyway you can. Now it seems as if he is more aware of this and he may be able to come to terms with it. Just IMHO
RMF
# RMF 2012-11-29 01:49
I know. Dean is willing to have a heart-to-heart with Castiel about Castiel's feelings and what Castiel went through, but he can't have that conversation with Sam. Well, the way Sam has been written this season, maybe that's actually for the best. The more they tell us, the less we end up with.
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-29 03:22
I´m Quote:
I know. Dean is willing to have a heart-to-heart with Castiel about Castiel's feelings and what Castiel went through, but he can't have that conversation with Sam. Well, the way Sam has been written this season, maybe that's actually for the best. The more they tell us, the less we end up with.
I'm not sure, Dean understands, there is ANYTHING to talk about here. We know, we understand, we see the FBs and Sam trying to piece his life together after losing Dean.
Dean has made his mind up: Sam doesn´t need him.
Which in his wacked up brain equals: he had a good life, ate organic apples and was basically just lazing around and lived the high life and had a ball.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 08:41
Well, it's not like Dean has any reason to think anything else was happening w/Sam. Dean gets a pass from me.

He returns from the "dead" (b/c Sam thought he died), and Sam basically shrugged his shoulders and said, " 'Sup." And then Dean learns that Sam didn't look for him b/c he was suddenly rendered clueless about all things supernatural, so he drove around aimlessly until he hit a dog and met some woman. And now that he's back, Sam only ever talks about leaving and tried to convince him to hunt alone.

I'm sorry, but if I were Dean, I would think my "resurrection" hugely inconvenienced Sam. I'm not sure I would be sitting down and talking w/him about anything b/c I would assume there's nothing to talk about.
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-29 08:45
Quote:
Well, it's not like Dean has any reason to think anything else was happening w/Sam. Dean gets a pass from me.

He returns from the "dead" (b/c Sam thought he died), and Sam basically shrugged his shoulders and said, " 'Sup." And then Dean learns that Sam didn't look for him b/c he was suddenly rendered clueless about all things supernatural, so he drove around aimlessly until he hit a dog and met some woman. And now that he's back, Sam only ever talks about leaving and tried to convince him to hunt alone.

I'm sorry, but if I were Dean, I would think my "resurrection" hugely inconvenienced Sam. I'm not sure I would be sitting down and talking w/him about anything b/c I would assume there's nothing to talk about.
I didn´t say, he had any reason.
Sam is just, as he always is, when he has problems: quiet.

Remember the hallucinations?
Tell Dean? Oh no, Dean got enough on his plate right now. No need to know, I´m losing his mind.

No, Dean has no reason to suspect, anything might be off with Sam.

Sam is keeping his mouth shut. Is trying to support Dean the best he can with readjusting... and yeah...
And Dean is behaving like someone, whose brother betrayed him for well.. a girl.

As Garth said: "They are talking, but nobody´s listening"
Or, in Sam´s case... NOT talking
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 09:02
I'm sorry. I thought you were saying you understood why Dean wasn't having a heart-to-heart w/Sam so I was basically agreeing w/you.

Given what Dean knows, I don't think he would be asking more questions about what Sam did while he was in Purgatory. Sam said he had something he never had before in Amelia and implied he had a nice life while Dean was gone so I can understand why Dean thinks Sam was fine.
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-29 09:08
Quote:
I'm sorry. I thought you were saying you understood why Dean wasn't having a heart-to-heart w/Sam so I was basically agreeing w/you.

Given what Dean knows, I don't think he would be asking more questions about what Sam did while he was in Purgatory. Sam said he had something he never had before in Amelia and implied he had a nice life while Dean was gone so I can understand why Dean thinks Sam was fine.
k, sorry.

German.. sometimes a few things get lost in translation ;)
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 09:36
No problem :-)
RMF
# RMF 2012-11-29 10:28
Dean may have an inferiority complex, but he doesn't find anything strange about this, like we do? It feels ilke this distance is artificial, that they are not having conversations that they would have had were it any other season. It's once again a writing issue. The core relationship is not being served, but the other ones are.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 14:17
Quote:
The core relationship is not being served, but the other ones are.
And this is my problem. Take Blood Brothers for instance. It was an excellent episode, IMO, to establish Benny - a side character, but I couldn't fully appreciate it b/c I was (and still am) in the dark re: Sam, a main character.

I know it makes sense for others, but Sam's irrational hatred or dislike for Benny never made sense to me! And the follow up episode was awful in the sense that we were supposed to believe Sam and Dean just got in the Impala and drove away w/o discussing Benny. What?!

It still hasn't been explained. Should I be this clueless about Sam and what he's thinking? Couldn't the writers just . . . . write a plain, straightforward story for him and be done w/it?
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-29 13:53
Okay, I'm going to say a bad thing. Dean has a habit of not wanting to hear Sam's emotions or feelings. He didn't want to listen to why it was important for Sam to go back to school or to the fact that Sam was able to pursue his dreams AND still be Dean's brother. He didn't want to discuss how Sam felt about John's death. He didn't want to hear how Sam felt about Dean selling his soul to "save" Sam. He didn't want to hear about why Sam trusted Ruby and the one time he did, he cut Sam off with "too much information". In After School Special he couldn't even conceive of why Sam was unhappy that they wouldn't be staying at the school for an entire year. Considering he had Sam watch him fulfill his dream of "being with" twins in season 3, refusing to listen to how sleeping with Ruby changed Sam is a real double standard. He didn't want Sam's apologies in season five. He did ask about the Cage when Sam was soulless, but when Sam could finally talk about it, he made it clear that Sam was to focus on the present and Dean as stone one.

Dean loves Sam. He tries to do what he believes is right for Sam. But he has trouble seeing Sam as an independent person who has feelings that are very divergent from Dean's. Dean tends to dismiss how Sam feels because Dean interprets things through his huge feelings of abandonment. Castiel is easier to ask, because Cas isn't Dean's brother and Cas isn't human so any dissonance can be accredited to both those things.
FoolForDean
# FoolForDean 2012-11-29 14:15
Quote:
Okay, I'm going to say a bad thing. Dean has a habit of not wanting to hear Sam's emotions or feelings. He didn't want to listen to why it was important for Sam to go back to school or to the fact that Sam was able to pursue his dreams AND still be Dean's brother. He didn't want to discuss how Sam felt about John's death. He didn't want to hear how Sam felt about Dean selling his soul to "save" Sam. He didn't want to hear about why Sam trusted Ruby and the one time he did, he cut Sam off with "too much information". In After School Special he couldn't even conceive of why Sam was unhappy that they wouldn't be staying at the school for an entire year. Considering he had Sam watch him fulfill his dream of "being with" twins in season 3, refusing to listen to how sleeping with Ruby changed Sam is a real double standard. He didn't want Sam's apologies in season five. He did ask about the Cage when Sam was soulless, but when Sam could finally talk about it, he made it clear that Sam was to focus on the present and Dean as stone one.

Dean loves Sam. He tries to do what he believes is right for Sam. But he has trouble seeing Sam as an independent person who has feelings that are very divergent from Dean's. Dean tends to dismiss how Sam feels because Dean interprets things through his huge feelings of abandonment. Castiel is easier to ask, because Cas isn't Dean's brother and Cas isn't human so any dissonance can be accredited to both those things.
Wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of Dean. Except where he had Sam watch him with the Doublemint twins. I think - I'm pretty sure - that Sam just happened to walk in on them.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 14:26
Wasn't Sam sitting in the Impala directly in front of the motel window when that happened?

Percy, I don't think your assessment is bad. I think there is a lot of value to it. Hmm . . . I think Dean doesn't want to shut down Sam, but he may be more afraid of what Sam has to say b/c of Sam's independent streak, etc.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-29 14:37
What I remember (and it's been a while since I rewatched) is what lala said. Sam was sitting in the Impala in front of the motel window searching ways to break Dean's deal. Dean had not drawn the shades. Dean stood up grinned and gave 2 thumbs up to Sam. He knew Sam was watching and he enjoyed it. And I have no problems with it, Sam didn't, he just rolled his eyes. Plus Dean has alluded to or been descriptive of many of his sexual encounters, i.e. Lisa being bendy and Gumby girl. It's Dean's refusal to even consider Sam's sex life that becomes the problem.
RMF
# RMF 2012-11-29 01:44
I'm disappointed too. Even the Looney Tunes stuff wasn't as much fun as it should have been. It needed to be written by someone winningly cracked like Edlund, but this was put together by a conventional writer who was trying very hard to produce a wacky SPN episode and got only 2/3 of the way there. And yeah, the Sam material was pretty bad. Once again, awkwardly placed flashbacks where everyone else does most of the talking and that repeat what we already know in laboriously spelled-out fashion. We have a MOTW in Fred Jones who was living inside his own head to the detriment of others, and THIS is who Sam gets to recognize himself in. Sam is forced to deliver great a big fakey speech in which he declares that running and hiding from life causes destruction all around you, and you have to come out and FACE YOUR FEARS. I'm sorry, but wasn't it Sam who always confronted emotional situations head on, whereas Dean went into denial and covered up with macho bullshit? Who is this Sam? I don't get how a guy who chose eternal torment to save the world is forced into a character arc about accepting responsibility. And loses the shotgun seat. I just can't see that this set of writers understands or values Sam as a character.
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 08:56
Quote:
I'm disappointed too. . . . And yeah, the Sam material was pretty bad. Once again, awkwardly placed flashbacks where everyone else does most of the talking and that repeat what we already know in laboriously spelled-out fashion. We have a MOTW in Fred Jones who was living inside his own head to the detriment of others, and THIS is who Sam gets to recognize himself in. Sam is forced to deliver great a big fakey speech in which he declares that running and hiding from life causes destruction all around you, and you have to come out and FACE YOUR FEARS. I'm sorry, but wasn't it Sam who always confronted emotional situations head on, whereas Dean went into denial and covered up with macho bullshit? Who is this Sam? I don't get how a guy who chose eternal torment to save the world is forced into a character arc about accepting responsibility. And loses the shotgun seat. I just can't see that this set of writers understands or values Sam as a character.
I'm so happy you posted this b/c I was beginning to think I was the only one who is finding the FBs to be so ill-timed and misplaced on the show. At this point, absolutely ANYTHING will trigger an Amelia FB for Sam. A fly walks across the dashboard of the Impala, Sam gazes off into the distance and remembers Amelia. Ugh. And like you, I also saw the FBs as giving us info we already got weeks back. Okay . . . Sam and Amelia are damaged . . . got it . . . let's move on w/the show, now!

I also couldn't agree more w/you about this weak Sam they're portraying. I know some have considered Sam to be a "runner" in the past, but I never have. He didn't run away to college. He told John and Dean he was going to college. He accepted John disowning him, and he left. He didn't run away in Scarecrow. He told Dean where he was going. I also don't consider Hunted or TGND as Sam "running away." Sam left in those instances to do something he wanted to do w/o any interference from Dean. Was it good to sneak away in the middle of the night? No, it wasn't, but Sam wasn't running away from a problem. He saw those times as his attempts to fix problems. And he didn't run away in SF either. Again, he told Dean he was upset and wanted to be by himself. And that reminds me that he also told Dean he was jonesing for DB and needed time away from the hunt in GGY.

Sam has never run away from life or a problem. If Sam had some huge breakdown, then Carver needs to get to it already b/c this current story, IMO, is ruining Sam. They've yet to explain why Sam thought Dean was dead or why he did anything he did after Dean disappeared. At least I, personally, haven't heard a satisfactory explanation.

Anyway, awesome post, RMF! I couldn't agree more w/you esp on the bolded sentences!
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-11-29 10:49
Quote:
Sam has never run away from life or a problem.
Dean: "All you've ever done is run away."
Sam: "And I was wrong, every single time I did."

It's canon, according to that scene in "Point of No Return" that Sam does this. He himself admitted that hisQuote:
modus operandi
is to bolt when things go awry - that's part of the reason - I think - why him jumping in the pit was such a big deal (other than the fact that he was willingly jumping into a place of eternal torment to save the world). He finally faced his destiny head-on, with his brother by his side. It was an utterly beautiful, poetic redemption arc for his character.

I definitely think Sam leaving for Stanford was running away from a dysfunctional home life and a dangerous lifestyle, which he knew would only lead to pain and death. He wanted out - who can blame him?

"Running away" isn't an inherently negative or cowardly thing. In many ways, Dean's Quote:
modus operandi
is to stay or "cling" - and that too, can be viewed as negative or cowardly. He can't let go. He can't move on. He doesn't know how to look after himself. He fears being abandoned so much that the hint of Sam's independence seems like a betrayal. Knowing his history, who can blame him? But perhaps it's a character flaw he needs to overcome, just as Sam has overcome his.

Sam, by his own admission, does seem to have a streak in him that screams to run when things get messy. Part of it is that independent streak. I don't think that is cowardly. If anything, seeing how he has overcome that urge time and time again demonstrates his courage.

Just my opinion on the matter.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-29 11:27
Quote:
Dean: "All you've ever done is run away." Sam: "And I was wrong, every single time I did." It's canon, according to that scene in "Point of No Return" that Sam does this. He himself admitted that his
Show told us that Sam runs away but what it showed was what lala2 posted so that is why i personally was clamoring for the show to show what Sam went through immediately and not tell and at least for me unless and until what really happened is something different from what they are telling what Sam did it will leave a bad taste
lala2
# lala2 2012-11-29 11:34
I definitely disagree. I don't see Sam as running away when things get messy.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I really don't care about what was written. I care more about what I saw. I understand Sam agreed w/Dean that he "ran away" but I hated PONR and most of S5. I never agreed w/Sam "agreeing" that he was wrong to go to college or pursue a life outside of hunting, or that he was wrong to go deal w/his DB addiction on his own, or that he was wrong to not have happy memories of Dean in Heaven (as if Sam's Heaven was only comprised of three memories). I never bought into that idea, so it really doesn't matter to me what Sam said. S5 was a weak season, IMO.

I don't see the show as portraying him as "running away" when things get messy. But we can agree to disagree.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-29 11:36
Quote:
"Running away" isn't an inherently negative or cowardly thing. In many ways, Dean's is to stay or "cling" - and that too, can be viewed as negative or cowardly.
When has the show told or showed us that clinging is negative...you say running away isn't inherently negative but the show already shows that it is negative according to your quote Quote:
I definitely think Sam leaving for Stanford was running away from a dysfunctional home life and a dangerous lifestyle, which he knew would only lead to pain and death.
I don't see that as Sam himself says that the life he chose was safeQuote:
He can't let go. He can't move on. He doesn't know how to look after himself. He fears being abandoned so much that the hint of Sam's independence seems like a betrayal. Knowing his history, who can blame him? But perhaps it's a character flaw he needs to overcome, just as Sam has overcome his.
and Sam catches flak for Dean's flaws and Dean does not for Sam's ,as you call it running away.isn't it fair.Quote:
Sam, by his own admission,
I saw that admission as sam trying to get Dean not to run.For me personally its not just the words but the situation when the words were uttered and the tone tells me what to take from the words.Just my opinion on matter.
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-29 11:51
Quote:
Quote:
"Running away" isn't an inherently negative or cowardly thing. In many ways, Dean's is to stay or "cling" - and that too, can be viewed as negative or cowardly.
When has the show told or showed us that clinging is negative...you say running away isn't inherently negative but the show already shows that it is negative according to your quote Quote:
I definitely think Sam leaving for Stanford was running away from a dysfunctional home life and a dangerous lifestyle, which he knew would only lead to pain and death.
I don't see that as Sam himself says that the life he chose was safeQuote:
He can't let go. He can't move on. He doesn't know how to look after himself. He fears being abandoned so much that the hint of Sam's independence seems like a betrayal. Knowing his history, who can blame him? But perhaps it's a character flaw he needs to overcome, just as Sam has overcome his.
and Sam catches flak for Dean's flaws and Dean does not for Sam's ,as you call it running away.isn't it fair.Quote:
Sam, by his own admission,
I saw that admission as sam trying to get Dean not to run.For me personally its not just the words but the situation when the words were uttered and the tone tells me what to take from the words.Just my opinion on matter.
Please guys, let´s not get this into a Sam vs. Dean discussion.

They both have their flaws and are stubborn and most of all HUMAN.

It´s their greatest strength and their greatest weakness.
And without it, we woukldn´t love them half as much.

So, Sam has a fiercely independent streak and Dean is firecly loyal.
Good for them.. except when it´s not ^^
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-11-29 12:06
Oh! I am not intending to get into a Sam vs. Dean discussion - I love both characters, and I assume everybody else does too, even those who share different interpretations . I certainly hope I don't come across as making this into that kind of discussion because it is not my intention. I merely enjoy the discussion of the brother's flaws/strengths , and playing with different interpretations .
Bamboo24
# Bamboo24 2012-11-29 12:00
Quote:
I don't see that as Sam himself says that the life he chose was safe
Sam said as much in the pilot. In fact, I believe he stated that for him, it was more about being "safe" than being "normal."

Quote:
I saw that admission as sam trying to get Dean not to run.Just my opinion on matter.
That's possible...but that would have been Sam not being honest with his brother in the moment - just saying anything to get him to change course. I don't think that makes sense in light of the seriousness of the situation or the context. If what you're suggesting is true, then Sam would have easily said, "I never ran, Dean" and explained himself. That would have convinced Dean just as easily.

Quote:
When has the show told us that...you say running away isn't inherently negative but the show already shows that it is negative
I don't understand the "show tells us such and such" statements. We make value judgments and inferences beyond the characters and the show, don't we? If a killer in a movie gives some great speech about how killing people is good - that does not automatically make that the message of that movie. Likewise, Sam saying that running away was wrong - while being canon - does not automatically make the message of Supernatural to mean that Sam is "bad" or "cowardly" or any other negative label. Especially when Sam is and always has been a main character and protagonist. To view him that way is, IMO, to vastly oversimplify and ignore the personal journey his character has been on.

Granted, one person's inference/value judgment might be that Sam running away = cowardice, even in light of canon. But that's not the show "telling" that person that. That's an independent value judgment/infere nce that person made.
anonymousN
# anonymousN 2012-11-29 12:21
Quote:
it was more about being "safe" than being "normal."
Yes he wanted to be safe and because he could not be safe with Dean and John he informed them and went away when they gave him an ultimatum..that is hardly running away and saying it was running away even if someone believes it is simply oversimplifying it.Quote:
That's possible...but that would have been Sam not being honest with his brother in the moment - just saying anything to get him to change course. I don't think that makes sense in light of the seriousness of the situation or the context. If what you're suggesting is true, then Sam would have easily said, "I never ran, Dean" and explained himself. That would have convinced Dean just as easily.
Dean was not in a state of listening to Sam.It was not one such "side of the impala-single mantear-concerned face" moment.The story was moving fast towars apocalypse and if he has to admit to running away even when he might not have been then so be it.Where you say it would convinc edean easily i believe it would not convince Dean easily.JMHO.Quote:
We make value judgments and inferences beyond the characters and the show, don't we?
Not always some times show shows us what they went through and sometimes it tells us and sometimes it shows and tells us.In real life also it happens and showing and telling is most effective.For eg: Its my birthday and we have chocolate...for a person who wants to know how the cake looked i think showing is most effective than telling.When a showrunner is portraying a protagonist some thing has to be told so that there is no misunderstandin g...and oversimplificat ion.
percysowner
# percysowner 2012-11-29 12:49
Quote:
Dean: "All you've ever done is run away.

" Sam: "And I was wrong, every single time I did."
This is why I am so unhappy that the show is labeling Sam as running away. IRL running away may well be good, healthy and necessary thing, but in the world of Supernatural it is "wrong every single time". This is never contradicted, running is wrong and by telling us Sam ran away, we are being told he is wrong, full stop.

Quote:
Sam, by his own admission,
Sam has been brainwashed by his entire life to label what he did as wrong and running away. Dean and John were unable to see Sam going to college as running toward something. The YED telling Sam that Jess died because he went to college completely tainted that decision by making it the cause of pain and death. Every time Sam seeks independence it falls apart and Sam gets judged by the world and by himself as a failure. In DSOTM Sam is shown that his attempts to create his own identity away from his family, where he was miserable, hurt Dean and had no upside. Sam admitting he always ran was to me more because that is the narrative that he and we have heard since season one. Sam leaves Dean, not because it is good for Sam, but because it hurts Dean. Sam can't be making an independent choice based on his needs, he must be running away and the main concern must be how it affects Dean. That is what the show has shown repeatedly. The perceptions of Sam's choices have always been shown from Dean's POV, which has not helped us see Sam for who he is or isn't, just for what Dean sees.
FoolForDean
# FoolForDean 2012-11-29 12:55
Quote:


It's canon, according to that scene in "Point of No Return" that Sam does this. He himself admitted that hisQuote:
modus operandi
is to bolt when things go awry. In many ways, Dean's Quote:
modus operandi
is to stay or "cling" He can't let go. He can't move on.
Wow, you've put it so clearly. I think Sam's tendency to run and Dean's tendency to cling have both been established in canon (at least imo). And I think it's exactly that difference that puts them at odds with each other all the time. When Sam runs, Dean doesn't understand that it's a coping mechanism because Dean sees it as abandonment. When Dean clings, Sam doesn't see it as a need to be wanted because to Sam, that's just Dean being to overbearing tight-controlli ng big brother.

Ah, what a mess it is when we don't understand where the other person is coming from... Run or cling - it's both a result of their (brotherly) love for each other. So can't we just hug and make up already???
Fluffy2107
# Fluffy2107 2012-11-29 07:45
The Episode wasn´t as funny, as I had expected going in, but oh.... oh was it great for all the small character moments.
Dean kind of took a supporting role in this one and it was more about Sam and Cas and their respective struggles.

I just watched it in my lunch break and I´ll have to come back to it later, wenn I actually have the privacy to cry... but oh Chuck, that was hard at times.

Castiel trying SO hard and failing. The way he copied the brothers, trying to be like them was just heart breaking.
And Sam?

It´s as if he knows, somethings not right with his memories. And he just goes about it, quietly accepting, that they´re messed up and not right, and just goes on.

Oh poor baby...


Btw: is it just me, or is the make up this season uhm... not so good?
Too much bronzer, way too much?
On all three of the boys. It just looks off.