Is There A Behind The Scenes Problem With The Writing on Supernatural?
Tuesday, 01 May 2012 18:30 | Last Updated on Tuesday, 01 May 2012 21:20 | Written by Alice Jester | 
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I have to admit, I dismiss a lot of what's written about "Supernatural" at Zap2It. A lot of the so called "journalism" is twisted to create controversy and bolster site hits. This latest article, Have Dean and Castiel Been Acting Out of Character, is no exception. It sounds like Carina MacKenzie took some quotes from the panels at the Jus In Bello convention this weekend in Rome and twisted it out of context to serve an agenda. An agenda that hints an outright rebellion against a script and she has the exclusive right there.
This kind of talk at cons recently has been nothing new. I know, I've been at the last few here in the US. We've been raising the issue all season long about the inconsistent and out of character writing this season on this site, but we found the actors have mostly been defensive of the creative process. Jensen at his meet and greet at Chicon in October said this about how he dealt with out of character moments involving Dean and Sam:
Next question: Is there ever a time when you read a script and you say to your character, “Dean! What are you thinking?”
Jensen: “All the time. Seriously, I would say more specifically usually it’s just certain lines. We get new writers. I’m not quite sure what the number is, but I know that every year they have to take at least one outside submission, so basically it’s someone who has never written for the show. I mean obviously they understand the show because their script got picked, and it’s a good script, but it’s just that sometimes the dialog isn’t really true to character. So I’ll either sit down and rewrite the lines to fit it to Dean or just call Sera or Bob and say “Hey, this particular scene doesn’t sound like Dean at all. What do you think of this? That’s happened maybe twice this year. One of the scenes was between Jared and I, Sam and Dean, in fact I think it’s the next episode, it’s the end scene. We have like this falling out. We have an argument. And I kid you not; the scene was like straight out of a romantic comedy. It was like a break-up between a woman and a man. Right out of a romantic comedy. (Laughs from the fans) And Jared and I were in the make-up trailer that morning and I hadn’t really read the scene before then, and I was like “Dude, we gotta change this! This whole thing” So he and I sat there and rewrote the scene to make fit it, to make it closer to our characters. And we didn’t even tell the producer. And then it happened again two episodes later, there was another scene and we were like, “What is happening??” And that time we finally called Sera and said we’re changing the scene. Actually we’re changing the entire scene but it all says the same stuff. It’s just a different way of saying it. I think one of Jared’s lines was when I go to move toward Sam and he goes “Don’t! Just don’t! I can’t even look at you right now!”
The Zap2It article seemed to be digging specifically at outgoing showrunner Sera Gamble and her gender, using comments from Misha Collins (which cannot be taken seriously at cons) and jokes by Jensen Ackles. Jensen in every interview I've ever read, and the one that I got to do with him, had nothing but total respect for Sera and the creative team. Here's a serious quote about scripts taken from Jensen at his meet and greet in Rome, the very same con:
Fan: Have you ever had problems with a script that you don't agree with and how to make it work for Dean?
Jensen: Not really. It would be less like trying how to make Dean do this, like directly changing the script to make it *be* Dean. When we come against a scene or dialog that doesn't sound right, we change it and make it proper to the character. So I'll never had a hard time figuring out how to make Dean do something because we will just change the script if it doesn't feel right.
Jensen: Not really. It would be less like trying how to make Dean do this, like directly changing the script to make it *be* Dean. When we come against a scene or dialog that doesn't sound right, we change it and make it proper to the character. So I'll never had a hard time figuring out how to make Dean do something because we will just change the script if it doesn't feel right.
It probably isn't shocking that there was a problem with that Dean/Castiel scene in "The Born Again Identity." However, it also sounds like it's nothing new and they worked out the dialogue like they traditionally have and had a few laughs doing it. I know Jensen in the past has made lots of comments about how he'll give suggestions to the directors, especially ones like Robert Singer who he's worked with for a long time. I still smile in recalling how the big hug at the end of "Mystery Spot" was Jared and Jensen's idea and wasn't in the script.
Clarissa from TV Overmind was at the convention, and her report slanted a more at the less controversial side:
Notice how there's no digs in there about Sera Gamble being a woman? I'm hoping that someone who actually attended Jus In Bello con can tell us if Carina MacKenzie is indeed going for sensational journalism or if she raises a good point. In the meantime, this sounds like nothing more than an amusing story that can be told at cons being once again taken out of context from the wrong purpose. This isn't the first time it's happened from these cons, and it won't be the last. For now, consider this to be another cautionary tale. Don't believe everything you read.
Edited: Here's the video of the whole thing (Thanks GeordieGirl1967). Judge for yourself, but Jensen's comments were DEFINITELY taken out of context. Seems that only half of the story was told in the Zap2It article.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVW0saTl3lY&
Clarissa from TV Overmind was at the convention, and her report slanted a more at the less controversial side:
During day 2, both Jensen and Misha mentioned they thought the scene from episode 7.17 where Dean gave Castiel his coat back was a little ridiculous. But a fan brought up the scene again today during their panels again today. Jensen said: "Misha and Bob Singer, who was directing that episode, we were crying-laughing at how ridiculous it was that I had his jacket nicely folded in the trunk of the car...and not even the Impala, but a stolen car. There was no reason for the jacket to be in the trunk of that car. And Bob was like 'just do it, alright?!' Then we started saying the dialogue out loud and it...it was so bad. There was a line [Misha] said that he couldn’t get out because it was so ridiculous, so we changed it. [The trench coat] was so perfectly folded with the tie and the collar and Bob’s like ‘can you present it so we can see what it is’ and I was like 'no! No, I can’t!' Know that we have problems shooting scenes sometimes."
Later, during the joint panel, Jensen explained that the line was "so out of character", they couldn’t get it out. The dialogue would have basically indicated that Dean petted the coat. They had to completely change it. "We asked ourselves how we could have changed it around to make it more believable for these characters." They think that two men probably wouldn't have gone on like the conversation did.
Notice how there's no digs in there about Sera Gamble being a woman? I'm hoping that someone who actually attended Jus In Bello con can tell us if Carina MacKenzie is indeed going for sensational journalism or if she raises a good point. In the meantime, this sounds like nothing more than an amusing story that can be told at cons being once again taken out of context from the wrong purpose. This isn't the first time it's happened from these cons, and it won't be the last. For now, consider this to be another cautionary tale. Don't believe everything you read.
Edited: Here's the video of the whole thing (Thanks GeordieGirl1967). Judge for yourself, but Jensen's comments were DEFINITELY taken out of context. Seems that only half of the story was told in the Zap2It article.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVW0saTl3lY&
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Comments
So Sera Gamble is a WOMAN. So what. That has NO merit on her writing or style. None. To imply that it has any basis for any dialog is highly offensive.
What's even stupider is this article is written by a woman.
It seems that every Con has some incident like this that has no place.
I get so mad that The CW keeps rewarding this writer with exclusives for Supernatural when this is not the first time she's taken a Jensen quote out of context and created a derogatory article from it. I'm disgusted that she dare associate herself with this show and claim to be a fan.
I think it's ridiculous that they get this access to put out these articles when more deserving press can be found at other big name sites OR better yet fan sites.
Such a shame.
Carina clearly writes stuff to stir up fandom and hits to her site. In this article, she has a number of things wrong and taken out of context. The line Jensen and Misha were talking about does not appear to have been filmed, so, it's not the line that was edited out of the episode. Also, Robert Singer, who was the director of the episode agreed with Jensen and Misha, so it wasn't that that the actors made it difficult for Singer, he agreed with them.
This is true. The writer of the article is getting 2 scenes mixed up. I made this point in the comments below the article.
One last thing: I'm happy that the actors fight for their characters. I don't have a problem with anything that happened in relation to that particular scene or other OCC dialogue. My problem is internal matters being discussed openly at cons and in interviews. The actors are paid a lot of money for what they do, and part of their jobs is to support everyone associated with SPN. We shouldn't even know that there might be problems with the dialogue and I really think it was unprofessional of Jensen and Misha to criticize the writing in public. And it's not the first time either. I'm tired of it.
Now Misha is Misha. He always talking out his ass. He did say was the gayiest scene SPN ever. But wasn't saying gay as in gay=bad. He was saying it as gay = homosexual. And let's face it. It was a little. I don't think that was Gamble's intention. But it did definitely have a little bit of that flavor even in the edited version. So who knows what was in the orginal script.
But both actors said it as a funny story. The same as they told the Robbie Thompson anecdote. If there had been some huge issue they probably would have kept it to themselves, but since no drama really occured as far as they were concerned why would they care. This was just one thing out of many that happened on set. Not a state secret.
About airing set happenings in public, look at Alice's title for this thread: she's wondering if there's a writing problem at SPN. Even if it's the case, we shouldn't know about it, certainly not from the actors working on the show.
All Jensen has done is talk openly about times when *a line or two* didn't sound like "Dean" to him--and he has the right to that opinion. The powers that be on Supernatural listen to Jared and Jensen about their characters because Jared and Jensen care very much about keeping true to them.
As far as being sexist, Jensen had exactly the same concerns with Robbie Thompson's ending scene in Slash Fiction. I think the video makes it clear his actual point is that Dean is not a touchy feely guy who freely talks through his emotions. In his opinion, women are more likely to work through disputes like that, while men are more likely to use actions. I don't think there's anything particularly sexist about that--there are reams of self-help books out there about different communication styles.
Jensen probably should watch every word that comes out of his mouth to be as PC as possible, but it's not that easy to do when performing stand up comedy in front of an audience, which is what he and Misha were doing and doing well.
http://www.aoltv.com/2011/09/08/women-television-producers-decline/
The funny thing is Bob Singer is co-showrunner. He's a man. He revises all the scripts. Robbie Thompson is a man, and he wrote the scene Alice quoted from the October Chicon. Making this into a sexist thing is just ridiculous.
Actually, Bob Singer doesn't touch the scripts. He leaves that part of the job to Sera. It will likely be Jeremy Carver's job next season. But yes, Robbie Thompson wrote that other scene. You're right, the sexist thing is ridiculous, no matter who does what.
It came across as throwing the writer (and this is true whether it was Sera or Ben Edlund or a new writer) under the bus in front of a lot of people. Maybe the dialogue was bad, but it doesn't seem right to slam it (and the showrunner of the last two seasons and a writer who has been with the show since the start) outright in a public sphere.
At other cons, Jensen had exactly the same kind of story to tell about Robbie Thompson's Slash Fiction ending, so this idea that he's slamming women is way OTT. He's just finding what he hopes are amusing stories to answer questions he's had 10 or 20 times before.
Man, it's really too bad people like Carina Mackenzie make it dangerous for the actors to interact with fans.
His point about Sera being a girl is just that he thinks the dialogue in that scene talked about emotions explicitly, while he thinks Dean is the kind of guy who would be way less verbal. He and Misha also acted out the scene from this perspective and they were laughing at it and themselves as much as they laughed at the romcomish dialogue.
It doesn't surprise me that something as poorly thought out as Dean carrying the coat from car to car led to corny dialogue. The coat was important, but once the boys left the Impala behind, they were obviously stripped of a lot of important things in their life.
Here is the video of the panel www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVW0saTl3lY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Judge for yourselves. I think too much is being made of it in terms of indicating behind the scenes strife. I think the journalist is trying to stir up trouble.
IMO its significance is in what it reveals about J and Ms attitude to Dean and Cas's relationship. Many fans (both those (not including me) who think they have a deep bond, and the shippers) are upset by what J and M said here because it shows very clearly that they believe their characters to be straight, and that romantic-sounding, gushy dialogue between them would be ooc. This isn't what the shippers want to hear at all.
If Sera is guilty of anything it is of trying too hard (beyond what was credible for the characters) to throw a bone to the Cas/Dean fans.
Oh, well, even the best writers make mistakes.
Well, Jensen did say something like ''the writing was feminine" which in context I took to mean that the dialog didn't sound like something two guys would say to each other. I didn't get any sense that it went any deeper than that.
I can't imagine that anyone, shipper or no, would think that Jensen & Misha would ever think that the characters were anything but straight.
None of my Cas fan friends were upset about "lack of gushy dialog". But they wondered if Jensen's comment meant that he didn't think that Dean would have kept the coat. Would Dean have chucked it in the trash?? Dean keeps things.
Anyway, it wasn't clear what Jensen meant.
Plus, they agree that there's been overreaction on Tumblr, and CraplyMack's article sounds way off base, which isn't news.
But I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant -why would Dean have it with him at that moment in the stolen car of the week? He wouldn't, it doesn't make sense that he would haul it around with him - it would stay in the trunk of the Impala. But obviously they wanted Cas to get the trenchcoat back so . . .Dean had it with him.
http://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/archive-articles/39-opinion/17085-is-there-a-behind-the-scenes-problem-with-the-writing-on-supernatural-.html#comment-29877
Far Away Eyes, said it the best, I agree with her 100%
I never read anything by Zap2it to be honest after the last time they took what Jensen said and twisted it around.. I've learned never to trust them after that.
And I did kind of agree with them when I saw the scene it was pretty sentimental and dragging that coat from car to car is un-Deanlike. But there attitude was if the fans are happy....
I have also watched the YouTube of the panels where this was discussed and at no point was Sera being thrown under the bus. On the contrary Jensen defends her and speaks highly of her as a writer. He also complimented her on being able to take the show on from the end of Kripke's 5 year arc and move the story forward in a new direction.
As you say Alice, these cons are loose and fast and the guys were having fun. I was at Jensen's Chicon meet and greet when he discussed the romcom break-up dialogue in the scene with Jared and I also reframed that same question at Jensen's Burcon meet and greet to point more towards action than dialogue and he was very clear that he has faith in the writers and their skills, it's just sometimes when the words are said outloud by the character, they don't ring true and it's then and only then they change them. He actually said he has never challenged a plot point or character arc.
This is not the first occasion I have found reporting inflamatory on the blog being discussed here. There was an article last week stating that when season 8 is confirmed it may well be confirmed as the final season. I had multiple concerned fans asking me my thoughts on this and I told them, how the hell would that journalist know that. That was probably said about 6 and 7 too! It's a grab for readership at its basest level but it sends waves through the fandom that are both worrying and damaging.
If we aren't careful, this type of commentry in the media will force the guys to be more guarded at conventions and none of us want that.
I AM FROM THE SOUTH & WE..... FRAK THAT. I READ THIS SHIT EARILIER & I DO NOT KNOW JENSEN, BUT I SAID HE COULD NOT HAVE SAID THAT!!!
U KNOW WHAT, I AM TO OLD TO GET THIS UPSET. I LOVE THE SHOW, AS I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY I WILL RIDE OR DIE FOR SPN.
MAYBE THIS IS WHAT THEY WANTED. I AM ALSO INTO POLITICS,AND THE ONE UPMANSHIP THAT GOES ON IS UN-FRAKING-BELIEVABLE.
I AM JUST SO GLAD THEY GOT THE COAT CLEANED. *_*
THANKS GUYS. I GET CHEST PAINS WITH BULLSHIT.
I think I'll stop reading anything and everything she writes; and unfollow her twitter, too.
A "professional" indeed.
I work in radio and the key line in all of this comes from Jensen, when he says "When you say/read it out loud"...
I can't tell you how many times I have written something, and just been incredibly impressed by what a beautiful job I did. And then, as I am reading it live on the air, I suddenly realize - to my horror - "This is not how real people talk!!! This is not what we say to each other!!"
I start cringing for myself, and for anyone listening.
There is a huge difference between what sounds good on paper, and what sounds right when it is actually spoken.
And believe me, I have been called out on the issue both publicly and privately.
I don't think either man meant to be disrespectful. I think they meant to show how challenging it is to create and maintain a cohesive episode + storyline when you have SO many people contributing.
I also imagine that they might have been filming the scene late at night, when everybody is that extra bit silly & goofy. When you're already tired, you get giddy and that could also be a contributing factor to laughing at the line, and just as importantly how they remember the event.
It's worth noting, Jensen goes on to praise Sera's abilities. And acknowledge that maybe men & women express themselves differently. (Which, I reluctantly admit, is often quite true. I used to do some speech writing, and you always had to remember the gender of the person ultimately delivering the speech )
I'll end by saying that one of my greatest fears (because I work in the news & information gathering business) is to be accused of taking someone out of context. That accusation can burn so many bridges and so much credibility.
What's worse is it makes people that much more cautious when talking to the media. (Which makes my job so much harder.. )
My main take out of this kerfuffle is that I don't want this kind of misinterpretation to lead to more guarded conversations. That would be a tragedy.
Yes. Not quite the same situation but when I write any fanfic (snicker, snicker) I ALWAYS read my dialogue out loud to make sure it sounds natural. ALWAYS.
I didn't find anything in the panel offensive to me as a woman, or to Sera, especially when Jensen made it a point to address Sera's definite talent as a writer.
I really do feel men and women do, GENERALLY SPEAKING, address emotions and things differently and sometimes a woman writer can have a harder time channeling a man. But I can count on one hand the number of Sera-written episodes that have even alluded to something "less than manly" (or whatever the PC way to say it is). She rarely does stuff like this.
Also, I kind of really disliked that whole trenchcoat scene. So that's on my list for sure.
These guys tease each other all the time for their foibles. Nobody's perfect, people goof up sometimes, and they laugh about it. That's all they're doing with Sera. You can be the best writer in the world and still flub a line once in a while. (As others have said, I think she was just trying to give the fans the trenchcoat moment they wanted.) They were just laughing about it, as they do with each other's human imperfections.
They did the same thing when they felt Robbie Thompson's script was romcomish at the end of Slash Fiction (which they also talked about this JIB con, saying it was written like a couple breaking up instead of two brothers arguing), and Robbie is a man. Both Jensen and Jared have said they thought Death's Door was the best episode of the series, so obviously they have high regard for Sera's talent as a writer. In his Saturday solo panel Jensen praised Sera's work as showrunner. I haven't read Carina's article directly because I don't want to give her the page hit and help her plan of provoking page hits succeed, and I won't give her page hits in the future either.
There is also the failure to include any quotes where they say positive things about Sera. And that panel was a laugh riot and a tease fest, but it comes across in that article as two guys complaining and criticizing when in reality they had turned it into a comedy routine. She used the words "he joked" once after the " she's a girl" quote but that's not enough.
I commented over there: the way this is written leaves it open to interpretation that Jensen and Misha have a problem with Sera's writing and the fact she is a woman, which isn't at all the case. It was just one scene, and they were just laughing about it.
Here's the link if anyone wants to see clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHpRj5wbE4c&feature=share
"I just thought it was interesting because I really liked that trenchcoat scene and sometimes the behind-the-scenes stuff is fun to highlight."
This isn't the first incident. That's what's so disgusting. How does this promote Supernatural? This show deserves so much better than this. Her article will get fifty thousand hits or more and people who don't know this show like we do will believe it.
The same thing happened when EW did horrible piece back in season four about them wanting to end the show in season five. You don't know how many people for a year that casually knew the show brought that up to me. It took me a lot of breath to set the record straight.
This isn't the first time she's done that, and I don't think it will be the last either.
Thank you Alice for clearing this up
Yet, there are several issues I see that were brought up by this article. First, the convention experience, to my mind, is a different animal altogether from a journalistic interview or a piece of television criticism. The types of stories and anecdotes that are shared at a convention would not be couched in the same way, I think, if say Jensen Ackles were giving an interview and were asked by a journalist what his professional impression of the Cas/Dean storyline was. At a convention, he has a particular audience and he's answering them in a way that would most likely entertain them. A convention is a performance. Second, making backhanded criticisms about a show's storyline based on apocryphal commentary, such as Ackles's and Collins's schtick, undermines the work that the writers do more so than whatever the actors say in jest. Even if you take the commentary seriously, at worst, it can be seen as a bumbling critique by the actors and at best, it's their lighthearted ribbing of someone they know well, and from all accounts (and given the very tongue in cheek flavor of The French Mistake) the Supernatural set would appear to be full of self deprecating humor.
I guess what I'd like to say is that the original article did not take seriously its own critique. It was a way to get hits because it riled up fans who are the most likely to get riled up, and that makes me doubt even more the site's commitment to responsible reporting.
Thanks again for the article, Alice.
WE KNOW WHO WE ARE, AND WE KNOW WHY WE DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO. WE ARE SPN FAMILY.
DEAL WITH IT ASSHOLES, WHOMEVER IS READING THIS OTHER THAN SPN FAMILY.
DEAL WITH IT PEOPLE. STAND TALL. WE ARE SPN !!!!
Also, during his solo Saturday panel, he praised Sera: (...)I do give Sera [Gamble] credit for the last two years in continuing the success of the show and the quality of the show and putting her own signature on it and making it a bit different." (http://www.tvovermind.com/supernatural/supernatural-jib-con-jensen-ackles-jared-padalecki-misha-collins-jim-beaver-and-more/)
But I also think that Carina lacks some basic writing skills. Not too long ago, Carina did an interview with Jensen and Jared and in the text of the article she had a quote from Jensen in one paragraph, in the next paragraph she had a quote from someone she referred to as "he" and then in a third paragraph she had a quote from Jared. So, since Jensen was quoted in the first paragraph, you would assume the quote from "he" in the second paragraph would be Jensen, but if you watched the video contained in the article, you clearly see it was Jared who made the comments from the person Carina labeled as "he."
It's basic writing and composition that if you change speakers, you need to put names with the quotes, you can't use "he."
As any writer worth their 2 cents knows, reading the entire thing once you have written it is a must, so as to avoid confusion and/or enticing reactions similar to the writer's.
If as you say, the writer of that piece did not read the article while it's primary editing, which again every writer worth 2 cents do, then she should retire and never pick a pen in her life ever again.
I saw my friend Alice's article and I thought I might as well jump in as one of the people who was in attendance and covered the con. The main point of Jensen's discussion was that there was one particular line of dialogue that the boys didn't really like. They just had problems with the fact that they didn't believe two men would likely exchange that kind of line. In terms of Sera's name being brought up, I can actually understand Jensen's comment about her, although it wasn't really meant to be derogatory. I think, as a woman myself, that she threw in a line that may have been a bit more "emotional", if you will, that the boys just didn't think was really in character.
That doesn't, in any way, denote that there's any trauma behind the scenes or the actors don't like the writers or even that Sera is a terrible writer, because none of that is true. So she wrote a "bad" line...so what? The boys have talked about changing around the "break up" scene at the end of "Slash Fiction" because they weren't really happy with the dialogue. As someone above commented, sometimes what's written on paper might not translate well when spoken aloud.
I love a lot of Sera episodes and I am very excited to see Jeremy Carver put his own spin on the show as well. I don't think we should worry about quotes that are misinterpreted. The con was a good one...you should all watch the Misha resume scene. That was the funniest thing I've seen in my life :)
Clarissa
You're right, it didn't suggest bts trauma or that one bad line means she's a terrible writer. The problem is when the tone and context aren't portrayed properly, it's open to interpretation, and some fans when given the opportunity to interpret will interpret the hell out of it.
Case in point, I just saw a post saying that scene was a "deal breaker" and Sera had been "blacklisted" from ever writing for the show again and that's why the boys felt free to criticize her like that.
I only ever watch the cons on youtube and from what I've seen, Jensen & Jared are always very positive about all people involved on the show. And yes, they do joke around alot, that's what makes it fun. So everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I really don't think Jensen would have dissed Sera Gamble and her writing as being too "girly". Honestly I haven't had a chance to check out the video, but I will later on.
Jensen said what he said about Sera being a girl. Carina just reported it. Jensen and Jared and Misha and all the other actors know that what they say at conventions gets spread through fandom like wildfire. They also know anything they say is fair game for anyone to discuss or report on. They know they are being recorded.
The only dig about Sera being a woman is a direct quote from Jensen and Carina specifically says that he was joking.
I really don't see what you are so upset about.
Carina certainly seems to have her own agenda not least of which writing controversial articles slanted against popular character/actors to get hits and comments, nevermind it might cause friction between Jensen and people he has shown obvious respect to in the past. Jensen has a reputation for being an old-pro and it's a shame someone can write an article that stirs up people against him.
Additionally, anyone who has ever had to write a speech and then deliver it, or anything of the kind, should be able to appreciate that somethings look great on paper that absolutely do not translate out loud.
I loved the trench coat scene myself, and thought no dialogue was exactly the best approach. It makes me sad to see out and out mockery of the moment, but to each her own. What makes me sadder still, is that (again in this viewers opinion) some fans on the video seem to deliberately drag this out...for the purpose of trashing Ms. Gamble?....or it almost comes across that way - to me.
Anyways - to wrap up this rambling - it isn't cool to trash Jensen, or really anyone who is a part of that great team. Particularly given how open and generous they have been with the fans over the years. Critical analysis/examination of something with a constructive end is one thing, but I will never understand the motivation behind throwing someone into the mud, or the sheer joy and pleasure that some seem to derive from it.
Thank you for the video and article to clear up the context of that other article!
THAT BEING SAID... I think it's important to remember that this is a bit of a cult-of-personality situation. The behind-the-scenes look, the warts-and-all approach (god, that's a lot of hyphens!) -- these are the things that draw fans to cons, that make them feel closer to the stars and to the show and make it special. Maybe what Jensen said wasn't the most enlightened thing in the world. Maybe, going back, he wouldn't have said it. And maybe, if pressed, he'd apologize. But this isn't a presidential campaign, and I think creating a situation in which con guests have to really watch their words would take all the crazy magic out of the con experience and turn it into just another press conference.
These guys traffic in earthy, raunchy humor, in laid-back comfort, and, yes, in gender stereotypes. It's part of the experience, and nobody promises an offense-free atmosphere. It sucks that Jensen said something that wasn't very politic, but I wonder how much of this microscope-viewing will do anything beyond rile people up further.
I guess this was a bit off-topic. I suppose I just want to know what the upshot will be of all this.
The zap2it article seemed to expand and run with the jokiness about a woman writer and IMO exaggerated the degree that Jensen and Misha went there, along with distorting what Jensen and Misha were actually taking issue with re: the contents of the scene. We do know it was Jensen's idea for Dean to keep the coat, but maybe Jensen didn't know the intention was Dean would carry it from car to car, he thought Dean would store it with the Impala. (Personally I found the fact that Dean did carry the trenchcoat from car to car perfectly believable and poignant but that's just my opinion).
Since SPN specializes in male emotion, I'm feeling this was more about the specific wording of the line not the fact that strong emotions were being expressed.
That said, I highly doubt, whatever the hell was implied in the ep., that Dean was carrying Cas' trenchcoat with him everywhere about. (Don't get me wrong. I am a diehard Destial shipper and even made a big deal of it in my recap... had Shakespeare's sonnet dedicated to it, no less) But as someone who has gotten to know Dean for the past 7 years, I can say Dean's having that trenchcoat with him when he went to see Emmanual was NOT out of char.
Dean is the sort-of guy who applies more value to objects associated with the person than to the person themselves. It is his way of protecting himself from being hurt. Also it's his way of coping with their loss. His dad's journal/jacket, his mom's car (if u recall the Impala was John's gift to Mary),
Sam's amulet, Bobby's flask - he pretty much carries his family's memorabilia with him all the time. So it's but natural for him to carry something of Cas' with him. That said, after losing Bobby to death, and stashing Impala and finally losing Sam to crazy, it's quite possible he turned to the only "family" he had left... Cas' trenchcoat... and carried it with to Emmanuel's (from his house, whence he found out about Emmanuel) as something familiar. It was a sheer coincidence that Emmanuel turned out to be Cas and the coat, turned out to be more than just his reminder.Also, the scene in the ep. would have been OOC if Dean had said anything. Dean is not the kind of person that talks - Sam, Cas are - Dean shows. His handing Cas the coat back can be compared to him handing Sam the demon-knife back in "The End". It's his way of sayinh "I sure as hell ain't gonna forgive you just yet, and it's gonna be long long time till I trust you again, but I'm willing to give you a second chance. I want you to be by my side in this."
Anything ekse would have been cheesy and forced. Downright slashy. I am glad it turned out the way it did. If I wanted slash tumblr/l-j offer some of the best, I dont need the show to go there too.
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